So much for separation of Church and State....

[Tiny]

Looks like Conservative Republicans have not only gotten rid of abortion - they will eventually  be able to use taxpayer dollars to educate their children.  
Ok, maybe it won't benefit them immediately - but it certainly will in time. 

www.cnn.com/2023/08/01/us/oklahoma-religious-charter-school-opening-lawsuit/index.html 


I'm beginning to think that all voting Republicans are way more wealthy than I ever thought they were and that maybe I'm really poor.    Sounds like Oklahoma has a lot of people who don't want to pay to send their kids to private schools AND contribute tax money to the public schools (in their State).   
I have heard a grumble from anyone wealthy enough to be able to send their kid(s) to a private school:  Why should they pay to educate someone else's kid?   


How soon before other States allow this? 

[billisonboard]

Working link here: www.cnn.com/2023/08/01/us/oklahoma-religious-charter-school-opening-lawsuit/index.html

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Aug 1, 2023 21:49:50 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Looks like Conservative Republicans have not only gotten rid of abortion - they will eventually  be able to use taxpayer dollars to educate their children.  
Ok, maybe it won't benefit them immediately - but it certainly will in time. 

www.cnn.com/2023/08/01/us/oklahoma-religious-charter-school-opening-lawsuit/index.html 


I'm beginning to think that all voting Republicans are way more wealthy than I ever thought they were and that maybe I'm really poor.    Sounds like Oklahoma has a lot of people who don't want to pay to send their kids to private schools AND contribute tax money to the public schools (in their State).   
I have heard a grumble from anyone wealthy enough to be able to send their kid(s) to a private school:  Why should they pay to educate someone else's kid?   


How soon before other States allow this? 

Iowa is doing it.  If you send your kids to a religious school you get your public school tax refunded to you so you can pay tuition with it instead.  The first checks have already rolled out.  It is all in the name of "parental rights".  

[grumpyhermit]

"Why should they pay to educate someone else's kid?"

Good question - I'm single, with no kids. Why SHOULD I have to fund your life choices? Seems unfair. 

Oh, right, because that's what it is to live in a developed society you half-wits. If you want to send your kids to a religious school, go for it, but why on earth should anyone else be expected to pay for that? 

[Tennesseer]

Aug 2, 2023 8:39:47 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

"Why should they pay to educate someone else's kid?"

Good question - I'm single, with no kids. Why SHOULD I have to fund your life choices? Seems unfair. 

Oh, right, because that's what it is to live in a developed society you half-wits. If you want to send your kids to a religious school, go for it, but why on earth should anyone else be expected to pay for that? 

Because purity balls need to be even purer?

[thyme4change]

Yes - AZ wants to use vouchers to funnel nearly a billion dollars into churches and other private schools.

Put that billion into the public schools and maybe we wouldn’t be down in the bottom ten of sick-ass education.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

I thought it was a conservative stance to piss and moan about the "government teat"?

[pulmonarymd]

Only for those who are "undeserving". It is OK for the "right" people. Anyone remember the Tea Party signs saying "keep the government out of my Medicare". One of my all time favorites for complete cluelessness

[seriousthistime]

I don't belong to a church.  My overall tax rate is higher to subsidize tax-free churches. 

And if religious schools are similarly tax free,  I am paying even more taxes to subsidize those schools.  Yet people balk at paying taxes for other people's "entitlements."

Here in my town, if the private schools accept students with physical or learning disabilities, special ed services are provided by the public school district.  So should the private school parents of students who receive special ed services not be refunded the taxes they paid for the schools? Or would they benefit twice? 




 

[billisonboard]

Aug 2, 2023 13:58:16 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

I don't belong to a church.  My overall tax rate is higher to subsidize tax-free churches. 

And if religious schools are similarly tax free,  I am paying even more taxes to subsidize those schools.  Yet people balk at paying taxes for other people's "entitlements."

Here in my town, if the private schools accept students with physical or learning disabilities, special ed services are provided by the public school district.  So should the private school parents of students who receive special ed services not be refunded the taxes they paid for the schools? Or would they benefit twice? 

Actually benefit three times. Their kids general Ed needs, their kids special Ed needs, and the benefit of having upcoming generations educated to keep society functioning.

[dondubble]

Maybe all churches should pay income and property taxes into a general fund that can then be divvied up amongst religious based private schools. NO public education funds currently collected get rebated back to those parents. Let’s accept some personal responsibility for educating your own, people. And also continue to keep our public schools alive for the benefit of society as a whole.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 2, 2023 14:21:52 GMT -5 dondubble said:

Maybe all churches should pay income and property taxes into a general fund that can then be divvied up amongst religious based private schools. NO public education funds currently collected get rebated back to those parents. Let’s accept some personal responsibility for educating your own, people. And also continue to keep our public schools alive for the benefit of society as a whole.

right.  or, to echo a complaint often heard on the right....

"i don't want my tax dollars funding private education"

[happyhoix]

Aug 2, 2023 8:39:47 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

"Why should they pay to educate someone else's kid?"

Good question - I'm single, with no kids. Why SHOULD I have to fund your life choices? Seems unfair. 

Oh, right, because that's what it is to live in a developed society you half-wits. If you want to send your kids to a religious school, go for it, but why on earth should anyone else be expected to pay for that? 

I especially have a problem with it because the kids won’t get an adequate education to go on to any careers that rely on a good foundation in science.

I don’t mind funding education. I don’t want to fund indoctrination.

[pulmonarymd]

Less competition for those of us who have children interested in these careers. So a win for me and mine! Look at the bright side!

[dondubble]

Here’s another idea based off of our WaSt lottery that supports schools. Have a private school supporting lottery where the proceeds go into a general fund to pay tuition for those kids going private. Coupled with the funds from Church taxation, there should be more than enough for these whiners.

[grumpyhermit]

Aug 3, 2023 13:53:26 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 2, 2023 8:39:47 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

"Why should they pay to educate someone else's kid?"

Good question - I'm single, with no kids. Why SHOULD I have to fund your life choices? Seems unfair. 

Oh, right, because that's what it is to live in a developed society you half-wits. If you want to send your kids to a religious school, go for it, but why on earth should anyone else be expected to pay for that? 

I especially have a problem with it because the kids won’t get an adequate education to go on to any careers that rely on a good foundation in science.

I don’t mind funding education. I don’t want to fund indoctrination.

It is a big part of my annoyance as well. Because you know they are going to want the funding, while also insisting the state can't dictate in any way their curriculum because 'religious freedom'. 

If you don't want oversight from the State DOE, then don't take the money. Easy. You don't get it both ways. Or at least you shouldn't. 

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 3, 2023 17:29:54 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

Aug 3, 2023 13:53:26 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I especially have a problem with it because the kids won’t get an adequate education to go on to any careers that rely on a good foundation in science.

I don’t mind funding education. I don’t want to fund indoctrination.

It is a big part of my annoyance as well. Because you know they are going to want the funding, while also insisting the state can't dictate in any way their curriculum because 'religious freedom'. 

If you don't want oversight from the State DOE, then don't take the money. Easy. You don't get it both ways. Or at least you shouldn't. 

What these people, as well as DeSantis, do not either understand or I guess care about, is that this will handicap there students when applying to college. Highly selective schools do care about getting top students, and they are handicapping these students if the go all in in creationism and anti-“woke” curriculum. In addition, educated professionals do care about quality of schools when they think about where to live, so they may find recruiting these individuals will be more challenging.

Saw an article today where the head of pediatric heart transplantation at the Oschner Clinic, who happens to be gay, is leaving to go to NY because of his concerns about the future. Patients will need to go to TX, Atlanta, or Nashville if they need a transplant. And finding a replacement for this individual will be a challenge because these individuals are few and far between. So more people are hurt by these misguided laws

[grumpyhermit]

I think it's that they don't care. Much like with abortion, the rich and connected will still get access to what they need. I think the GOP is a mix of true zealots, and other's that are just exploiting the zealots. The true believers may send their kids to the religious schools, but not all of them will. 

At some point this snake is going to eat it's own tail, but they don't seem capable of projecting that far our in the future if it means they can enrich themselves in the short term. 

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 3, 2023 19:27:23 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

I think it's that they don't care. Much like with abortion, the rich and connected will still get access to what they need. I think the GOP is a mix of true zealots, and other's that are just exploiting the zealots. The true believers may send their kids to the religious schools, but not all of them will. 

At some point this snake is going to eat it's own tail, but they don't seem capable of projecting that far our in the future if it means they can enrich themselves in the short term. 

The rich can insulate them to a degree. When it comes to healthcare, time is the enemy in an emergency, and they can’t by that. Life in an area where these physicians are in short supply, you have to hope there is enough time to get somewhere for needed care. Someone important will eventually suffer. We will then see what happens.

You are right, most don’t care. They will just keep falling behind. And then they become more dependent on the people they despise. How long will we put up with that?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 3, 2023 19:13:47 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Aug 3, 2023 17:29:54 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

It is a big part of my annoyance as well. Because you know they are going to want the funding, while also insisting the state can't dictate in any way their curriculum because 'religious freedom'. 

If you don't want oversight from the State DOE, then don't take the money. Easy. You don't get it both ways. Or at least you shouldn't. 

What these people, as well as DeSantis, do not either understand or I guess care about, is that this will handicap there students when applying to college. Highly selective schools do care about getting top students, and they are handicapping these students if the go all in in creationism and anti-“woke” curriculum. In addition, educated professionals do care about quality of schools when they think about where to live, so they may find recruiting these individuals will be more challenging.

Saw an article today where the head of pediatric heart transplantation at the Oschner Clinic, who happens to be gay, is leaving to go to NY because of his concerns about the future. Patients will need to go to TX, Atlanta, or Nashville if they need a transplant. And finding a replacement for this individual will be a challenge because these individuals are few and far between. So more people are hurt by these misguided laws

they will probably funnel them through private religious colleges.
this, of course will kick the can down the road.
EMPLOYERS will end up suffering from this.
AMERICAN BUSINESS, which is really our bread and butter, will suffer.
so, yeah, we are setting ourselves up for RUIN, here.

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 4, 2023 11:30:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 3, 2023 19:13:47 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

What these people, as well as DeSantis, do not either understand or I guess care about, is that this will handicap there students when applying to college. Highly selective schools do care about getting top students, and they are handicapping these students if the go all in in creationism and anti-“woke” curriculum. In addition, educated professionals do care about quality of schools when they think about where to live, so they may find recruiting these individuals will be more challenging.

Saw an article today where the head of pediatric heart transplantation at the Oschner Clinic, who happens to be gay, is leaving to go to NY because of his concerns about the future. Patients will need to go to TX, Atlanta, or Nashville if they need a transplant. And finding a replacement for this individual will be a challenge because these individuals are few and far between. So more people are hurt by these misguided laws

they will probably funnel them through private religious colleges.
this, of course will kick the can down the road.
EMPLOYERS will end up suffering from this.
AMERICAN BUSINESS, which is really our bread and butter, will suffer.
so, yeah, we are setting ourselves up for RUIN, here.

There are not enough spaces in those schools to take them all if this becomes widespread. They can make the public colleges in their states teach the curriculum they want. Problem with that then becomes going to medical, dental, law, and graduate school with the degrees they get from them.

You are right, eventually there will be issues. But, if we let stupid win, we deserve what we get. I do think this will be a more of a problem in some areas and fields than others. Shithole states may just get worse.

[djAdvocate]

good point, pmd.  you are probably right.  i guess they could build more.  but that won't happen in an orderly or likely timely way.

[billisonboard]

Aug 4, 2023 11:41:06 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Aug 4, 2023 11:30:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

they will probably funnel them through private religious colleges.
this, of course will kick the can down the road.
EMPLOYERS will end up suffering from this.
AMERICAN BUSINESS, which is really our bread and butter, will suffer.
so, yeah, we are setting ourselves up for RUIN, here.

There are not enough spaces in those schools to take them all if this becomes widespread. They can make the public colleges in their states teach the curriculum they want. Problem with that then becomes going to medical, dental, law, and graduate school with the degrees they get from them.

You are right, eventually there will be issues. But, if we let stupid win, we deserve what we get. I do think this will be a more of a problem in some areas and fields than others. Shithole states may just get worse.

To state the obvious: schools/colleges don't teach, teachers/instructors/professors teach. Although elementary and secondary teachers are more easily cowed into following proscribed curriculum than professors would be, will they be able to find enough people to do their bidding at each level?

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 4, 2023 12:57:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 4, 2023 11:41:06 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

There are not enough spaces in those schools to take them all if this becomes widespread. They can make the public colleges in their states teach the curriculum they want. Problem with that then becomes going to medical, dental, law, and graduate school with the degrees they get from them.

You are right, eventually there will be issues. But, if we let stupid win, we deserve what we get. I do think this will be a more of a problem in some areas and fields than others. Shithole states may just get worse.

To state the obvious: schools/colleges don't teach, teachers/instructors/professors teach. Although elementary and secondary teachers are more easily cowed into following proscribed curriculum than professors would be, will they be able to find enough people to do their bidding at each level?

They will probably find enough, given the job market for PhDs right now. The problem will be quality. Those with options will leave. Those who do not will stay, and/or replace the more competent ones. In the sciences, that also comes with a significant financial hit, because the ones with more options will be the ones with grant money they can take with them. You are already seeing some of that on FL and TX.

It also has other effects. I posted about a pediatric heart transplant surgeon who is leaving LA for NY. Why? Because he is gay. He is afraid of the consequences his family may be subjected to because of the environment. Good luck replacing him easily.

[djAdvocate]

on the bright side, leech therapy is less expensive than blood transfusion.  

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 4, 2023 14:41:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

on the bright side, leech therapy is less expensive than blood transfusion.  

Just think of all the benefits of their anti-intellectualism-ivermectin, anti-vax, guns everywhere. Conservative utopia!

[tallguy]

Aug 4, 2023 12:57:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 4, 2023 11:41:06 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

There are not enough spaces in those schools to take them all if this becomes widespread. They can make the public colleges in their states teach the curriculum they want. Problem with that then becomes going to medical, dental, law, and graduate school with the degrees they get from them.

You are right, eventually there will be issues. But, if we let stupid win, we deserve what we get. I do think this will be a more of a problem in some areas and fields than others. Shithole states may just get worse.

To state the obvious: schools/colleges don't teach, teachers/instructors/professors teach. Although elementary and secondary teachers are more easily cowed into following proscribed curriculum than professors would be, will they be able to find enough people to do their bidding at each level?

Prescribed, presumably?  

[pulmonarymd]

Proscribed works. Doctors can both prescribe and proscribe medicines, for example

[billisonboard]

Now I have to do my homework.  

[Tennesseer]

Aug 4, 2023 15:19:29 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Now I have to do my homework.  

Blame it on spell-check.