jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jun 30, 2023 15:11:42 GMT -5
They are your Universities, Take your pick .... Are they? Do the Ivy league schools get government money? Many Professors at top universities get government grants - NIH etc
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jun 30, 2023 15:18:06 GMT -5
California has a large number of public colleges. A handful reject more than 50% of their applicants. They admit out of state students, while pay substantially more than state students. Again, the University of California at Berkeley, Los Angeles, probably San Diego are in that group. The rest admit varying numbers based on their competitiveness. California has already discounted race in admissions, and the results are as expected, African Americans students are lower, Asians are higher, whites substantially unchanged. Not sure how that helps the people, mostly whites, who are suing about AA I can't speak for everyone, but I've always viewed the challenges to AA as coming from a place of inflated sense of self and self-worth. similar to a lot of what we saw from 2016-2020, actually. There’s a lot of anxiety and resentment from the Asian communities. I have Asian family members and live in a town with about 15% Chinese. Grandsons taught at a Chinese university for 4-5 years. Lots of poor immigrant Chinese families in NY who pour their hopes and very hard work into their kids resent these manipulations
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 30, 2023 15:28:09 GMT -5
I can't speak for everyone, but I've always viewed the challenges to AA as coming from a place of inflated sense of self and self-worth. similar to a lot of what we saw from 2016-2020, actually. There’s a lot of anxiety and resentment from the Asian communities. I have Asian family members and live in a town with about 15% Chinese. Grandsons taught at a Chinese university for 4-5 years. Lots of poor immigrant Chinese families in NY who pour their hopes and very hard work into their kids resent these manipulations And the anxiety is unwarranted. If you are a student in the top 10% of your class with SATs of 1400, you are going to be admitted to a very good school. It is the idea that if you don’t get into an Ivy League university your life is over, and the explosion in applications/student. When I started doing interviews for my alma mater, they got about 12k applications/year. This past year they got 25k. They have about 100 more spots in the first year class. The number of students has not increased that much. I am sorry, going to Georgetown instead of Harvard is not a tragedy
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 30, 2023 15:33:15 GMT -5
The Ivy league has different financial arrangements..... but I looked at the Californian Universities before writing that and it said they were state funded (sorry cant find what I was looking at) but from wiki "The University of California public university system is funded through both public and private money" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California_financesDon't really have time/impetus.. to go through them all..... but yes it seems they are your Universities. The Ivy league colleges are some of the best in the World The problem isn't really the Ivy institutions, they are a very small fraction of the total number of university students that are in the US. Ivy league students are 0.4% of the total university students at any one time. So using the Ivies as an example is inaccurate. In the US, roughly 80% of the university students are at a public university, supported by state tax $$. Another 18 percent go to private universities (of which 0.4% are Ivy league students).
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 30, 2023 15:34:58 GMT -5
My educational focus wasn't at the collegiate level but Sociology of Education fascinates me.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 30, 2023 15:38:59 GMT -5
There’s a lot of anxiety and resentment from the Asian communities. I have Asian family members and live in a town with about 15% Chinese. Grandsons taught at a Chinese university for 4-5 years. Lots of poor immigrant Chinese families in NY who pour their hopes and very hard work into their kids resent these manipulations And the anxiety is unwarranted. If you are a student in the top 10% of your class with SATs of 1400, you are going to be admitted to a very good school. It is the idea that if you don’t get into an Ivy League university your life is over, and the explosion in applications/student. When I started doing interviews for my alma mater, they got about 12k applications/year. This past year they got 25k. They have about 100 more spots in the first year class. The number of students has not increased that much. I am sorry, going to Georgetown instead of Harvard is not a tragedy And TBH, I'll put my education up against any Harvard student any day (having gone in the SUNY system). I took classes at Harvard when I was working in Boston. Sadly, many of the classes I took repeated what I had learned at my last 2 years at SUNY. I was just a little testy about this, as I had assumed graduate education was going to give me more advanced learning. Even the graduate classes I took at Northeastern were more difficult.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 30, 2023 15:41:44 GMT -5
And the anxiety is unwarranted. If you are a student in the top 10% of your class with SATs of 1400, you are going to be admitted to a very good school. It is the idea that if you don’t get into an Ivy League university your life is over, and the explosion in applications/student. When I started doing interviews for my alma mater, they got about 12k applications/year. This past year they got 25k. They have about 100 more spots in the first year class. The number of students has not increased that much. I am sorry, going to Georgetown instead of Harvard is not a tragedy And TBH, I'll put my education up against any Harvard student any day (having gone in the SUNY system). I took classes at Harvard when I was working in Boston. Sadly, many of the classes I took repeated what I had learned at my last 2 years at SUNY. I was just a little testy about this, as I had assumed graduate education was going to give me more advanced learning. Even the graduate classes I took at Northeastern were more difficult. BS E'01 here, go Huskies! I remember telling my useless HS guidance counselor that I was going to Northeastern, as long as I was accepted. her reaction was insulting, to be generous. with the strong grades I had in HS, I wouldn't be accepted there today. it's not the "safety school" everyone used to think it was. it kind of feels like you did, too with this bold. oh well.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 30, 2023 15:42:39 GMT -5
Are they? Do the Ivy league schools get government money? Many Professors at top universities get government grants - NIH etc NIH grants have an indirect cost built into them, which is (was??) about 60% of the total cost of the grant. You get a grant for $1 million, $600K goes to the university to cover the expenses of running a lab. So the total cost of the grant is $1.6 million. Indirect costs of grants vary by university. Some are more, some less. When I worked it was around 60%.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 30, 2023 15:49:56 GMT -5
And the anxiety is unwarranted. If you are a student in the top 10% of your class with SATs of 1400, you are going to be admitted to a very good school. It is the idea that if you don’t get into an Ivy League university your life is over, and the explosion in applications/student. When I started doing interviews for my alma mater, they got about 12k applications/year. This past year they got 25k. They have about 100 more spots in the first year class. The number of students has not increased that much. I am sorry, going to Georgetown instead of Harvard is not a tragedy And TBH, I'll put my education up against any Harvard student any day (having gone in the SUNY system). I took classes at Harvard when I was working in Boston. Sadly, many of the classes I took repeated what I had learned at my last 2 years at SUNY. I was just a little testy about this, as I had assumed graduate education was going to give me more advanced learning. Even the graduate classes I took at Northeastern were more difficult. My son went to Middlebury. He had a friend who transferred from Harvard. Said Middlebury was far more rigorous. The hardest part is getting into Harvard. There are so many excellent universities in the US. You can get an excellent education in many places. There are many “ok” schools that are excellent in specific programs. It is the idea that you have to be admitted to this one school or it is a disaster that is the problem. A colleague of mine son wanted to go to Yale in the worst way. Didn’t get in. Went to Georgetown. Midway through his first year his father told him he could apply to Yale as a transfer student. Son said “why would I want to do that”.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jun 30, 2023 15:54:29 GMT -5
And the anxiety is unwarranted. If you are a student in the top 10% of your class with SATs of 1400, you are going to be admitted to a very good school. It is the idea that if you don’t get into an Ivy League university your life is over, and the explosion in applications/student. When I started doing interviews for my alma mater, they got about 12k applications/year. This past year they got 25k. They have about 100 more spots in the first year class. The number of students has not increased that much. I am sorry, going to Georgetown instead of Harvard is not a tragedy And TBH, I'll put my education up against any Harvard student any day (having gone in the SUNY system). I took classes at Harvard when I was working in Boston. Sadly, many of the classes I took repeated what I had learned at my last 2 years at SUNY. I was just a little testy about this, as I had assumed graduate education was going to give me more advanced learning. Even the graduate classes I took at Northeastern were more difficult. Those "top" schools are more about the network you get than the education. I wonder if the wealthy are going to find a new clubhouse.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 30, 2023 15:57:19 GMT -5
And TBH, I'll put my education up against any Harvard student any day (having gone in the SUNY system). I took classes at Harvard when I was working in Boston. Sadly, many of the classes I took repeated what I had learned at my last 2 years at SUNY. I was just a little testy about this, as I had assumed graduate education was going to give me more advanced learning. Even the graduate classes I took at Northeastern were more difficult. Those "top" schools are more about the network you get than the education. I wonder if the wealthy are going to find a new clubhouse. And the paper you can hang on the wall.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 30, 2023 16:24:10 GMT -5
It’s rumored that this will allow many more Asians into Harvard and that the 3 yr. old caterwauling will be coming from entitled white people and legacy admissions no longer admitted. YGWYPF Yep. This is going to work in the opposite direction you think it's going to work in. Asian enrollment will now no longer be limited, so it likely means that ultimately most of the class will wind up Asian. This all reminds me of the annual Scripts Spelling Bee where an Asian Indian often wins (twenty times in the past thirty-eight years). Indian Prime Minister noted that. Indians are brilliant in every field, not just in Spelling Bee: PM Modi
Applauding the Indian community in the US, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has said that they are brilliant in every field, not just in Spelling Bee and have played a big role in the country's relationship with America. Prime Minister Modi's remarks on Thursday came during his address to a joint session of the US Congress. He attributed a big part of the success of India-US ties to Indian-Americans. Representing 1.4 billion Indians, Modi said it is always a great honour and an exceptional privilege to address the US Congress twice. This is the second time that the prime minister has addressed the US Congress, the first time being in 2016. "In all this, Indian Americans have played a big role. They are brilliant in every field, not just in Spelling Bee. With their hearts and minds, talent and skills, and their love for America and India, they have connected us; they have unlocked doors; they have shown the potential of our partnership," he said. Spelling Bee is a prestigious contest where children of Indian origin have ruled the roost. Dev Shah, a 14-year-old eighth-grader from Florida, has won the 2023 Scripps National Spelling Bee. Shah correctly spelled the word to win the 95th national bee. Rest of article here: b]Indians are brilliant in every field, not just in Spelling Bee: PM Modi
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jun 30, 2023 17:14:41 GMT -5
I said, "your universities" ... because they are on American soil, being funded (some of them) from the public purse as further education for American youngsters.
Im not in the US, so they are "yours"
and yes I know there are International students with higher fees, and scholarships etc.... but you would have to hope that the facilities provided are suitable for the population.
The fairest form of admission seems to be the question.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 30, 2023 17:22:38 GMT -5
I’m interested to see the racial makeup of Fortune 500 CEOs in 20-25 years.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 30, 2023 17:25:26 GMT -5
I said, "your universities" ... because they are on American soil, being funded (some of them) from the public purse as further education for American youngsters. Im not in the US, so they are "yours" and yes I know there are International students with higher fees, and scholarships etc.... but you would have to hope that the facilities provided are suitable for the population. The fairest form of admission seems to be the question. The question is actually what form is allowable with the current Supreme Court lineup have the final say.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Jun 30, 2023 17:33:33 GMT -5
Colleges will continue to find ways to admit the students they want to admit. It's not like the admissions criteria is a simple as test scores, it's all highly subjective.
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ripvanwinkle
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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke 1729 -1797
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Jun 30, 2023 20:09:55 GMT -5
Wow...SCOTUS just keeps on giving gifts. Two big decisions today.
Don't have much to say but from what I read the rulings sounded correct.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 30, 2023 20:12:14 GMT -5
Wow...SCOTUS just keeps on giving gifts. Two big decisions today.
Don't have much to say but from what I read the rulings sounded correct.
Can’t wait for republicans to complain when someone refuses to do something for conservative Christians. Guess nazis might have a little more trouble getting help as well
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jun 30, 2023 20:50:42 GMT -5
Wow...SCOTUS just keeps on giving gifts. Two big decisions today.
Don't have much to say but from what I read the rulings sounded correct.
So that right to not create a message you don't agree with, that would cover social media sites banning people too right?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 30, 2023 20:51:42 GMT -5
Wow...SCOTUS just keeps on giving gifts. Two big decisions today.
Don't have much to say but from what I read the rulings sounded correct.
SCOTUS gave permission to businesses owners to discriminate against people based on their religion, race, national origin and gender if it would violates their free speech. That's a correct ruling?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jun 30, 2023 20:54:52 GMT -5
Wow...SCOTUS just keeps on giving gifts. Two big decisions today.
Don't have much to say but from what I read the rulings sounded correct.
SCOTUS gave permission to businesses owners to discriminate against people based on their religion, race, national origin and gender if it would violates their free speech. That's a correct ruling? I'm not sure I disagree with that ruling. It means businesses can refuse to produce the conspiracy theory crap, or white supremacist stuff etc
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 30, 2023 21:13:09 GMT -5
SCOTUS gave permission to businesses owners to discriminate against people based on their religion, race, national origin and gender if it would violates their free speech. That's a correct ruling? I'm not sure I disagree with that ruling. It means businesses can refuse to produce the conspiracy theory crap, or white supremacist stuff etc If I don't like Jewish people, I can decline creating a design which would reflect their religious beliefs because it is against my religious beliefs and free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. If I don't like second marriage as a result of divorce people, I can decline creating a design which would reflect their new marriage status because they violated the Ten Commandments and or bible and it is against my religious beliefs and free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. If I believe the bible bans mixed grace marriages, I don't have to create anything for mixed grace couples because it would violate my free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 30, 2023 21:18:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure I disagree with that ruling. It means businesses can refuse to produce the conspiracy theory crap, or white supremacist stuff etc If I don't like Jewish people, I can decline creating a design which would reflect their religious beliefs because it is against my religious beliefs and free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. If I don't like second marriage as a result of divorce people, I can decline creating a design which would reflect their new marriage status because they violated the Ten Commandments and or bible and it is against my religious beliefs and free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. If I believe the bible bans mixed grace marriages, I don't have to create anything for mixed grace couples because it would violate my free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. And I support that individual's right to not.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 30, 2023 21:21:28 GMT -5
If I don't like Jewish people, I can decline creating a design which would reflect their religious beliefs because it is against my religious beliefs and free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. If I don't like second marriage as a result of divorce people, I can decline creating a design which would reflect their new marriage status because they violated the Ten Commandments and or bible and it is against my religious beliefs and free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. If I believe the bible bans mixed grace marriages, I don't have to create anything for mixed grace couples because it would violate my free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. And I support that individual's right to not. So did SCOTUS. Doesn't help the country though.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 30, 2023 21:34:32 GMT -5
And I support that individual's right to not. So did SCOTUS. Doesn't help the country though. Yeah sometimes individual rights are about individuals and not the country.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Jun 30, 2023 21:51:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure I disagree with that ruling. It means businesses can refuse to produce the conspiracy theory crap, or white supremacist stuff etc If I don't like Jewish people, I can decline creating a design which would reflect their religious beliefs because it is against my religious beliefs and free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. If I don't like second marriage as a result of divorce people, I can decline creating a design which would reflect their new marriage status because they violated the Ten Commandments and or bible and it is against my religious beliefs and free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. If I believe the bible bans mixed grace marriages, I don't have to create anything for mixed grace couples because it would violate my free speech rights. Today's ruling said I could. I would expect nothing less from a court that deemed money=speech. It's amazing how quickly they have lost any sense of legitimacy. I give it a year or two before they strike down Obergerfell. This isn't about "free speech" and it isn't stopping here.
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ripvanwinkle
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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke 1729 -1797
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Jun 30, 2023 22:21:59 GMT -5
SCOTUS gave permission to businesses owners to discriminate against people based on their religion, race, national origin and gender if it would violates their free speech. That's a correct ruling? I'm not sure I disagree with that ruling. It means businesses can refuse to produce the conspiracy theory crap, or white supremacist stuff etc I agree. It might make society better with out all the supremacist crap and hate speech. Y'all have seen signs in businesses that say "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". This just codifies it further.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 30, 2023 22:50:46 GMT -5
So you can refuse to provide service yo African Americans if it is against your religion?
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ripvanwinkle
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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke 1729 -1797
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Jun 30, 2023 23:03:07 GMT -5
Wow...SCOTUS just keeps on giving gifts. Two big decisions today.
Don't have much to say but from what I read the rulings sounded correct.
So that right to not create a message you don't agree with, that would cover social media sites banning people too right? From what I've seen on social media sites that not a bad idea. We could do with less crap.
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ripvanwinkle
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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke 1729 -1797
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Jun 30, 2023 23:58:34 GMT -5
So you can refuse to provide service yo African Americans if it is against your religion? Yes according to the court. If you owned a print shop and a full blooded hard core crazy person came into your print shop and wanted you to print up 10,000 copies of a flyer that says kill all Jews and blacks, you can legally refuse service. Whats wrong with that? This is what the court finalized.
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