swamp
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Post by swamp on May 13, 2023 16:11:47 GMT -5
This is disgusting coming from a female. So a woman's body can never truly be her own? I don't see anyone making laws against men's bodies. Sperm is life, but nobody is making laws against men masturbating. Why? Part of being a female is to reproduce if you want to. There are steps to take if you don't want to but that is nature. Female body is not just hers once there is a pregnancy. Masturbation is fine no coception happened, that is when it is truly just cells. What if you don’t want to, someone inserted their sperm by force? |
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on May 13, 2023 16:25:48 GMT -5
Thank you, pulmonarymd . That was the point I was attempting to make a few posts ago. But hey...why listen to facts?! PMD is a “DR” so his facts are irrelevant.  |
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Post by moon/Laura on May 13, 2023 16:54:13 GMT -5
PMD actually *is* a doctor, so I consider his facts to be relevant. Clearly, others don't.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2023 19:05:57 GMT -5
Viability outside the mother is irrevelent. If it has a heartbeat then it is alive period. Unless the mother life is in danger then the only course of action is to continue with the pregnancy. Your right I probably should use pro choice I will start when people stop saying pro-life for anti-abortion. You've got the first part right. "Pro-choice" is absolutely the correct term to be used. For the most part, those people do not take a position on abortion itself, whether it is right or wrong, moral or immoral, life or not life. Their only real position is that it is an issue to be decided by the woman herself, preferably in consultation with her partner and her doctor. They are in favor of choice. There is no such thing as "pro-abortion." Never has been. The second part is very questionable. You are seemingly saying that "pro-life" is an insult made up by that opposing side. No. "Pro-life" is an incorrect and nonsensical term made up by anti-abortion people to make themselves sound more noble. The correct term is, as you seemingly agree, "anti-abortion" because they are against abortion itself. It is not the pro-choice side that is promulgating the term "pro-life." It is the anti-abortion side that is trying to skew the narrative to make themselves sound better. Talk to them about it. the late great comic Bill Hicks once said if they really are pro-life, they should not block abortion clinics, they should block cemeteries. let's see how committed they really are. |
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Post by scgal on May 13, 2023 19:38:37 GMT -5
I agree. The heart will stop beating if they are taken off life support because they cannot breath. It will cause death. They are only alive because of the machine. Outside of the mothers body there are different rules to follow and one can be taken off life support. why is that, though? they seem quite similar. machine = uterus. how and why are they different, in the moral or ethical sense? one is natural and one isn't |
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Post by scgal on May 13, 2023 19:41:22 GMT -5
Why? Part of being a female is to reproduce if you want to. There are steps to take if you don't want to but that is nature. Female body is not just hers once there is a pregnancy. Masturbation is fine no coception happened, that is when it is truly just cells. What if you don’t want to, someone inserted their sperm by force? Def on the fence about this one. I would like to say petition a court but in reality if there is no danger to the mothers physical health then the pregnancy go full term |
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on May 13, 2023 19:44:29 GMT -5
PMD actually *is* a doctor, so I consider his facts to be relevant. Clearly, others don't. Oh, I know that!  |
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Post by scgal on May 13, 2023 19:49:27 GMT -5
Again with your rude little jabs. Now I said many, many times if it is medically necessary I can see where abortion is performed. I think a heart beating is showing life but if a dr says the baby is brain dead so "technically" dead and willing to testify to that if need be then sure proceed. The part of the brain that controls breathing doesn’t fully develop until the end of the second trimester. If your neural control of breathing doesn’t work, you may indeed be brain dead. So, for consistency sake, abortions should be legal until the end of the second trimester, I.e. 24 weeks. Seems like Roe vs Wade got it right, don’t you agree No absolutely not. I don't agree. Given your explanation if an abortion is performed before the brain if fully developed then no foul it is not living. If there is a hearbeat then at 24 weeks if the brain is developed and not operational then the procedure could be a medical need. Not before because they choose to.There should be no choice only if it is medically necessary. |
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Post by chiver78 on May 13, 2023 20:01:19 GMT -5
Viability outside the mother is irrevelent. If it has a heartbeat then it is alive period. Unless the mother life is in danger then the only course of action is to continue with the pregnancy. Your right I probably should use pro choice I will start when people stop saying pro-life for anti-abortion. You've got the first part right. "Pro-choice" is absolutely the correct term to be used. For the most part, those people do not take a position on abortion itself, whether it is right or wrong, moral or immoral, life or not life. Their only real position is that it is an issue to be decided by the woman herself, preferably in consultation with her partner and her doctor. They are in favor of choice. There is no such thing as "pro-abortion." Never has been. The second part is very questionable. You are seemingly saying that "pro-life" is an insult made up by that opposing side. No. "Pro-life" is an incorrect and nonsensical term made up by anti-abortion people to make themselves sound more noble. The correct term is, as you seemingly agree, "anti-abortion" because they are against abortion itself. It is not the pro-choice side that is promulgating the term "pro-life." It is the anti-abortion side that is trying to skew the narrative to make themselves sound better. Talk to them about it. thank you, this is far more gracious an explanation than anything I was ever going to post for this particular poster. |
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Post by Opti on May 13, 2023 20:13:46 GMT -5
The part of the brain that controls breathing doesn’t fully develop until the end of the second trimester. If your neural control of breathing doesn’t work, you may indeed be brain dead. So, for consistency sake, abortions should be legal until the end of the second trimester, I.e. 24 weeks. Seems like Roe vs Wade got it right, don’t you agree No absolutely not. I don't agree. Given your explanation if an abortion is performed before the brain if fully developed then no foul it is not living. If there is a hearbeat then at 24 weeks if the brain is developed and not operational then the procedure could be a medical need. Not before because they choose to.There should be no choice only if it is medically necessary. How many children do you have? |
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Post by Opti on May 13, 2023 20:16:39 GMT -5
why is that, though? they seem quite similar. machine = uterus. how and why are they different, in the moral or ethical sense? one is natural and one isn't If natural is a criteria for you, maybe we should ban all guns because they aren't natural. All killings now have to be done naturally, with hands and maybe rocks. Natural - just because ... |
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 13, 2023 20:26:55 GMT -5
The part of the brain that controls breathing doesn’t fully develop until the end of the second trimester. If your neural control of breathing doesn’t work, you may indeed be brain dead. So, for consistency sake, abortions should be legal until the end of the second trimester, I.e. 24 weeks. Seems like Roe vs Wade got it right, don’t you agree No absolutely not. I don't agree. Given your explanation if an abortion is performed before the brain if fully developed then no foul it is not living. If there is a hearbeat then at 24 weeks if the brain is developed and not operational then the procedure could be a medical need. Not before because they choose to.There should be no choice only if it is medically necessary. An anencephalic infant has a heartbeat. It also has no chance of surviving more than a few hours after birth. The pregnancy will progress normally without significant risk to the women from a physical standpoint. You would force her to carry that pregnancy to term? Is that fetus alive? It has a heartbeat but no brain. Maybe you should acquire some medical knowledge before you try to argue these points. Medicine, despite your beliefs, and the beliefs of your fellow conservatives, is not always black and white. Yet I suspect you would cruelly force a women to carry a non viable pregnancy to term because it has a heartbeat and is therefore alive. And you consider yourself more moral and a better person than the rest of us |
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Post by moon/Laura on May 13, 2023 20:46:49 GMT -5
What if you don’t want to, someone inserted their sperm by force? Def on the fence about this one. I would like to say petition a court but in reality if there is no danger to the mothers physical health then the pregnancy go full term  |
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Post by billisonboard on May 13, 2023 21:00:16 GMT -5
PMD actually *is* a doctor, so I consider his facts to be relevant. Clearly, others don't.  I find his sharing of medical facts to be very helpful in discussions. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2023 23:25:55 GMT -5
why is that, though? they seem quite similar. machine = uterus. how and why are they different, in the moral or ethical sense? one is natural and one isn't that would favor the woman, imo. after all, a machine has no purpose other than serving man. unless, of course, you think of women the same way. and even then, it is a toss up. i am not understanding why the women have fewer rights than the machines. |
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Post by djAdvocate on May 13, 2023 23:33:16 GMT -5
What if you don’t want to, someone inserted their sperm by force? Def on the fence about this one. I would like to say petition a court but in reality if there is no danger to the mothers physical health then the pregnancy go full term that sounds like a permission slip to rapists to me. maybe i need to adjust my pov. but i can't think why i should. |
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Post by Opti on May 14, 2023 6:03:52 GMT -5
Def on the fence about this one. I would like to say petition a court but in reality if there is no danger to the mothers physical health then the pregnancy go full term I think a mother's mental health is important for many reasons. I think there have been studies although I remember not who or where, that how the mother feels and thinks does affect the baby's personality for life. I think there was something about if a mom is fearful and worried, the baby is more likely to skew conservative in thought. Which makes sense as if a child is born into a dangerous area, a conservative mindset might keep the child alive more than a liberal mindset. In addition, if the mom is generally happy the baby's personality is more likely to skew to the liberal expansive side. I believe the study I read was tendencies to this but I remember very little after that. Also with the very real post partum depression endangering a child and all other children in the household, making any of that happen more often just because of feels, I think is cruel and inhuman. I hope someday it is discovered how to prevent some of that or lessen it. |
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Post by Opti on May 14, 2023 6:08:05 GMT -5
Def on the fence about this one. I would like to say petition a court but in reality if there is no danger to the mothers physical health then the pregnancy go full term that sounds like a permission slip to rapists to me. maybe i need to adjust my pov. but i can't think why i should. It is. Just like in part of the old testament in the Bible. I believe these thoughts are promoted by men who rape or want to rape certain women. Because of course we need more violent genes spread in our society. There is all this fear about rapists coming over the border in parts of society. Yet they would breed potential rapists simply because he was successful in impregnating a woman? WTE? Is rape bad or not? If it is bad if they are not white, it should be bad if they are.  |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 14, 2023 14:26:21 GMT -5
No absolutely not. I don't agree. Given your explanation if an abortion is performed before the brain if fully developed then no foul it is not living. If there is a hearbeat then at 24 weeks if the brain is developed and not operational then the procedure could be a medical need. Not before because they choose to.There should be no choice only if it is medically necessary. An anencephalic infant has a heartbeat. It also has no chance of surviving more than a few hours after birth. The pregnancy will progress normally without significant risk to the women from a physical standpoint. You would force her to carry that pregnancy to term? Is that fetus alive? It has a heartbeat but no brain. Maybe you should acquire some medical knowledge before you try to argue these points. Medicine, despite your beliefs, and the beliefs of your fellow conservatives, is not always black and white. Yet I suspect you would cruelly force a women to carry a non viable pregnancy to term because it has a heartbeat and is therefore alive. And you consider yourself more moral and a better person than the rest of us Im no medical expert that is your field. I have also said for medical reason I don't know of all the reasons or factors involved. What I do know is that a woman should not be able to go into an abortion clinic and schedule an appointment just because of a whooopsie my bad |
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Post by scgal on May 14, 2023 14:29:24 GMT -5
Def on the fence about this one. I would like to say petition a court but in reality if there is no danger to the mothers physical health then the pregnancy go full term So lets just rip it out throw it away its just cells anyway. What a decline in society. |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 14, 2023 14:31:18 GMT -5
No absolutely not. I don't agree. Given your explanation if an abortion is performed before the brain if fully developed then no foul it is not living. If there is a hearbeat then at 24 weeks if the brain is developed and not operational then the procedure could be a medical need. Not before because they choose to.There should be no choice only if it is medically necessary. How many children do you have? 2 and 4 grands |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 14, 2023 14:36:46 GMT -5
Viability outside the mother is irrevelent. If it has a heartbeat then it is alive period. Unless the mother life is in danger then the only course of action is to continue with the pregnancy. Your right I probably should use pro choice I will start when people stop saying pro-life for anti-abortion. You've got the first part right. "Pro-choice" is absolutely the correct term to be used. For the most part, those people do not take a position on abortion itself, whether it is right or wrong, moral or immoral, life or not life. Their only real position is that it is an issue to be decided by the woman herself, preferably in consultation with her partner and her doctor. They are in favor of choice. There is no such thing as "pro-abortion." Never has been. The second part is very questionable. You are seemingly saying that "pro-life" is an insult made up by that opposing side. No. "Pro-life" is an incorrect and nonsensical term made up by anti-abortion people to make themselves sound more noble. The correct term is, as you seemingly agree, "anti-abortion" because they are against abortion itself. It is not the pro-choice side that is promulgating the term "pro-life." It is the anti-abortion side that is trying to skew the narrative to make themselves sound better. Talk to them about it. I think you are part wrong on the pro choice part and wrong on the pro life part. There are plenty of people mostly women who are pro abortion they now call it pro choice being politically correct. They even brag about their abortions and how many they have. Pro life is mainly used to describe us anti abortion people I have been called that many times on this board. I am not pro life I believe in capitol punishment. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 14, 2023 15:00:12 GMT -5
What about the mother's mental health? Shouldn't that be just as important? Maybe she's suicidal from being forced to continue a pregnancy she didn't want. But that's ok by you because she's nothing more than an incubator for a child who may well end up in the system. But our system is so wonderful that that doesn't matter either, right? None of it matters other than a child who wasn't wanted (and who may be a societal burden) wasn't aborted. How fucking stupid. So lets just rip it out throw it away its just cells anyway. What a decline in society. for the record, that is a red herring. nobody said that it was "just cells". i think what the argument hinges on for BOTH SIDES is that there really are two lives at stake. each side devalues the other life. let's not mince words. it is fact. |
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Post by Opti on May 14, 2023 15:32:59 GMT -5
You've got the first part right. "Pro-choice" is absolutely the correct term to be used. For the most part, those people do not take a position on abortion itself, whether it is right or wrong, moral or immoral, life or not life. Their only real position is that it is an issue to be decided by the woman herself, preferably in consultation with her partner and her doctor. They are in favor of choice. There is no such thing as "pro-abortion." Never has been. The second part is very questionable. You are seemingly saying that "pro-life" is an insult made up by that opposing side. No. "Pro-life" is an incorrect and nonsensical term made up by anti-abortion people to make themselves sound more noble. The correct term is, as you seemingly agree, "anti-abortion" because they are against abortion itself. It is not the pro-choice side that is promulgating the term "pro-life." It is the anti-abortion side that is trying to skew the narrative to make themselves sound better. Talk to them about it. I think you are part wrong on the pro choice part and wrong on the pro life part. There are plenty of people mostly women who are pro abortion they now call it pro choice being politically correct. They even brag about their abortions and how many they have. Pro life is mainly used to describe us anti abortion people I have been called that many times on this board. I am not pro life I believe in capitol punishment. There are always peope who brag about the strangest things. To not over populate the earth two or less kids would be best. Yet perhaps there are people who brag about having abortions. I personally have never met one, nor even seen one on video. But sure its possible. Then we have the other side like the Duggars and the Quiver full movement which seem to feel breeding until you can't anymore is a good thing to do. Personally, I think both extremes are too much, but that's me. But in RL where I live, most women are pro-choice. Some are anti-abortion. Some are pro forced birth I guess because they feel entitled to tell other people how to live their lives and don't care if they go under following their rules. If people really were pro save the fetus they would also be passing generous WIC, SNAP, headstart and all sorts of other social programs. But they do the opposite and many are in the gun worship cult. I do not see what good saving a child is if they are going to be blown to bits in school because some 'I have the right to have guns' folk really do not care if these kids live or die. Its about the feels. Its does not make you look moral. IMO it looks like self serving immoral behavior. The kind the Pharisees did in the Bible. |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 14, 2023 15:51:36 GMT -5
You've got the first part right. "Pro-choice" is absolutely the correct term to be used. For the most part, those people do not take a position on abortion itself, whether it is right or wrong, moral or immoral, life or not life. Their only real position is that it is an issue to be decided by the woman herself, preferably in consultation with her partner and her doctor. They are in favor of choice. There is no such thing as "pro-abortion." Never has been. The second part is very questionable. You are seemingly saying that "pro-life" is an insult made up by that opposing side. No. "Pro-life" is an incorrect and nonsensical term made up by anti-abortion people to make themselves sound more noble. The correct term is, as you seemingly agree, "anti-abortion" because they are against abortion itself. It is not the pro-choice side that is promulgating the term "pro-life." It is the anti-abortion side that is trying to skew the narrative to make themselves sound better. Talk to them about it. I think you are part wrong on the pro choice part and wrong on the pro life part. There are plenty of people mostly women who are pro abortion they now call it pro choice being politically correct. They even brag about their abortions and how many they have. Pro life is mainly used to describe us anti abortion people I have been called that many times on this board. I am not pro life I believe in capitol punishment. In not sure who you’re talking to but I’ve never hear anyone brag about an abortion. I’ve heard them discuss is frankly, but not brag. |
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Post by djAdvocate on May 14, 2023 15:58:03 GMT -5
I think you are part wrong on the pro choice part and wrong on the pro life part. There are plenty of people mostly women who are pro abortion they now call it pro choice being politically correct. They even brag about their abortions and how many they have. Pro life is mainly used to describe us anti abortion people I have been called that many times on this board. I am not pro life I believe in capitol punishment. In not sure who you’re talking to but I’ve never hear anyone brag about an abortion. I’ve heard them discuss is frankly, but not brag. most women i know don't even admit they have had one. there is nothing to be gained by mentioning it, and quite a few obvious and painful questions to follow if they do. when they do admit it, there is no joy in it at all. so, i agree with swamp. |
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 14, 2023 16:03:14 GMT -5
An anencephalic infant has a heartbeat. It also has no chance of surviving more than a few hours after birth. The pregnancy will progress normally without significant risk to the women from a physical standpoint. You would force her to carry that pregnancy to term? Is that fetus alive? It has a heartbeat but no brain. Maybe you should acquire some medical knowledge before you try to argue these points. Medicine, despite your beliefs, and the beliefs of your fellow conservatives, is not always black and white. Yet I suspect you would cruelly force a women to carry a non viable pregnancy to term because it has a heartbeat and is therefore alive. And you consider yourself more moral and a better person than the rest of us Im no medical expert that is your field. I have also said for medical reason I don't know of all the reasons or factors involved. What I do know is that a woman should not be able to go into an abortion clinic and schedule an appointment just because of a whooopsie my bad Yet you continue to spout nonsense. Outlawing abortion forces the women to carry an anencephalic fetus to term. It also requires a women to carry to term a fetus with a genetic abnormality that results in major abnormalities that means it will be disabled, in and out of hospitals, never living an independent life and requiring 24 hour care. The families life will never be the same. Do you think they should be allowed to have an abortion Face it, this a far more complicated issue than your simple minded ideas can understand. Outlawing abortion based on your ridiculous ideas has real world consequences that conservatives pay lip service to. Unless you are willing to make sure everyone has adequate health insurance to de add l with the above situations if you outlaw abortions, you, and your fellow conservatives, are nothing but cold hearted hypocrites who don’t really give a shit about this issue or anyone else. BTW, your idea about having an abortion as a lark is do offensive and dumb that it does you a disservice. Many abortions, especially later in pregnancies, are due to problems such as I have outlined. But you are to dim witted and closed minded to understand or care |
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Post by moon/Laura on May 14, 2023 16:17:59 GMT -5
An anencephalic infant has a heartbeat. It also has no chance of surviving more than a few hours after birth. The pregnancy will progress normally without significant risk to the women from a physical standpoint. You would force her to carry that pregnancy to term? Is that fetus alive? It has a heartbeat but no brain. Maybe you should acquire some medical knowledge before you try to argue these points. Medicine, despite your beliefs, and the beliefs of your fellow conservatives, is not always black and white. Yet I suspect you would cruelly force a women to carry a non viable pregnancy to term because it has a heartbeat and is therefore alive. And you consider yourself more moral and a better person than the rest of us Im no medical expert that is your field. I have also said for medical reason I don't know of all the reasons or factors involved. What I do know is that a woman should not be able to go into an abortion clinic and schedule an appointment just because of a whooopsie my bad |
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Post by Pink Cashmere on May 14, 2023 17:43:19 GMT -5
One of the things that has served me well in my life, is to mind my own fucking business. That means that not concerning myself with what consenting adults do with each other, is not my business. That means that a girl or woman that gets pregnant with a baby she cannot provide for and lavish with love, and especially if she was impregnated against her will, against her will, gets to make her own choices. If I insisted that every girl or woman had to birth every child she was impregnated with, my personal integrity says I would have to be willing to provide aid to help the parents and the children. And me being honest, I’m not willing to do that. I am not willing to even commit to regularly babysit my own Grandchildren because I still work myself. How can I try to demand that girls and women have babies that they can’t care for, if I’m not willing or able to be ten toes down to help them?
As far as the original subject, I have owned firearms myself, and I enjoyed shooting them in a range. But I am also still very much in favor of laws that further restrict who can and cannot own and/or carry firearms, as long as those laws are not biased so that a law abiding citizen of any shade of brown that meets the requirements can own them, if we determine that owning them is a legal right.
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Post by scgal on May 15, 2023 4:29:57 GMT -5
I think you are part wrong on the pro choice part and wrong on the pro life part. There are plenty of people mostly women who are pro abortion they now call it pro choice being politically correct. They even brag about their abortions and how many they have. Pro life is mainly used to describe us anti abortion people I have been called that many times on this board. I am not pro life I believe in capitol punishment. In not sure who you’re talking to but I’ve never hear anyone brag about an abortion. I’ve heard them discuss is frankly, but not brag. You must not have paid attention when they were discussing roe. Women were coming out of the woodwork saying how they loved haing their. There was a celebrity saying her 1st abortion was her best. OMG how discusting. |
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