We need a train wreck

[spartyparty]

Thanks everyone!  

The wife does have mental issues and I've known that, but she has sought help when she needed it.  I never really delved into her issues for a better understanding...but just days before being told about wanting a divorce, my sixteen year old had informed me that he thought mother had borderline personality disorder.  And wow...after all the reading I have done, everything makes complete fucking sense now....unfortunately, it is much too late and the wife can't see it (neither does her therapist), so it will remain untreated.

Anyhow, this passage really hits the nail on the head:

"It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional – rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It’s like pouring the best of yourself into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you’ll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory “event horizon.” But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colours."

[giramomma]

Mar 10, 2023 4:43:59 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Thanks everyone!  

The wife does have mental issues and I've known that, but she has sought help when she needed it.  I never really delved into her issues for a better understanding...but just days before being told about wanting a divorce, my sixteen year old had informed me that he thought mother had borderline personality disorder.  And wow...after all the reading I have done, everything makes complete fucking sense now....unfortunately, it is much too late and the wife can't see it (neither does her therapist), so it will remain untreated.

Anyhow, this passage really hits the nail on the head:

"It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional – rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It’s like pouring the best of yourself into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you’ll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory “event horizon.” But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colours."

Is your kiddo in therapy?

You and your wife had made your choices.

Your kiddo has no say, and is the one that's going to pay for the dysfunction. 

My mom is likely BPD. I was a self-injurer and unknowingly married an addict.

I can give you a good list of books to start reading.

[spartyparty]

Mar 10, 2023 9:02:55 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Mar 10, 2023 4:43:59 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Thanks everyone!  

The wife does have mental issues and I've known that, but she has sought help when she needed it.  I never really delved into her issues for a better understanding...but just days before being told about wanting a divorce, my sixteen year old had informed me that he thought mother had borderline personality disorder.  And wow...after all the reading I have done, everything makes complete fucking sense now....unfortunately, it is much too late and the wife can't see it (neither does her therapist), so it will remain untreated.

Anyhow, this passage really hits the nail on the head:

"It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional – rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It’s like pouring the best of yourself into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you’ll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory “event horizon.” But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colours."

Is your kiddo in therapy?

You and your wife had made your choices.

Your kiddo has no say, and is the one that's going to pay for the dysfunction. 

My mom is likely BPD. I was a self-injurer and unknowingly married an addict.

I can give you a good list of books to start reading.

Yep, he is seeing a therapist...and obviously knowing this about his mother should be very helpful.  Unfortunately, because he has had issues with depression and suicidal thoughts, and with the way things stand today, the kids would likely end up with her.  You could say that I was somewhat emotionally unavailable over the last 6-7 years...maybe even argue that I was absent.  But I was wrapped up in her twisted realty...everything I did was always wrong and I remember that she wanted me to be her, instead of being their father.  So, I did kind of withdraw and I guess wasn't always present.  I still did things with the kids, but certainly not as much as I should have, and definitely not there for them all the time.

It is interesting...the kids see it and think she is a little crazy, and they would prefer that I get the house and that they live with me.  Although, they would never admit that to their mother.

I just picked up Stop Walking on Eggshells...any others you can suggest, I would appreciate.  Thank you!

[giramomma]

Codependant No More

Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend

There's also a book called Surviving the Borderline Parent (I haven't read it)

I Hate You, Don't Leave Me is a good one, I've heard.

Also, bpdfamily.com/ is a good resource

Yeah. I still haven't forgiven my dad that he didn't stand up and do the right thing by me. Even after he passed.  I know he loved me. And he failed a major parenting test.

Your kids probably don't want to say much, because it's hard to admit. I mean, I can't really even admit the things I went through.

[swamp]

Mar 10, 2023 13:21:18 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Mar 10, 2023 9:02:55 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Is your kiddo in therapy?

You and your wife had made your choices.

Your kiddo has no say, and is the one that's going to pay for the dysfunction. 

My mom is likely BPD. I was a self-injurer and unknowingly married an addict.

I can give you a good list of books to start reading.

Yep, he is seeing a therapist...and obviously knowing this about his mother should be very helpful.  Unfortunately, because he has had issues with depression and suicidal thoughts, and with the way things stand today, the kids would likely end up with her.  You could say that I was somewhat emotionally unavailable over the last 6-7 years...maybe even argue that I was absent.  But I was wrapped up in her twisted realty...everything I did was always wrong and I remember that she wanted me to be her, instead of being their father.  So, I did kind of withdraw and I guess wasn't always present.  I still did things with the kids, but certainly not as much as I should have, and definitely not there for them all the time.

It is interesting...the kids see it and think she is a little crazy, and they would prefer that I get the house and that they live with me.  Although, they would never admit that to their mother.

I just picked up Stop Walking on Eggshells...any others you can suggest, I would appreciate.  Thank you!

Can you get your own place and do alternating weeks?

[spartyparty]

Mar 10, 2023 19:46:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

Mar 10, 2023 13:21:18 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Yep, he is seeing a therapist...and obviously knowing this about his mother should be very helpful.  Unfortunately, because he has had issues with depression and suicidal thoughts, and with the way things stand today, the kids would likely end up with her.  You could say that I was somewhat emotionally unavailable over the last 6-7 years...maybe even argue that I was absent.  But I was wrapped up in her twisted realty...everything I did was always wrong and I remember that she wanted me to be her, instead of being their father.  So, I did kind of withdraw and I guess wasn't always present.  I still did things with the kids, but certainly not as much as I should have, and definitely not there for them all the time.

It is interesting...the kids see it and think she is a little crazy, and they would prefer that I get the house and that they live with me.  Although, they would never admit that to their mother.

I just picked up Stop Walking on Eggshells...any others you can suggest, I would appreciate.  Thank you!

Can you get your own place and do alternating weeks?

I hope we can work something out like that.  I definitely need to make sure I have a place for them...if she gets the house, I have no doubt she will end up losing it.

[finnime]

One thing that is paramount now is to put and keep the kids first. So get a place to share with them and make sure they have a voice (without their mother) on how they want to schedule time. Two weeks with each parent is possible. They are at ages where no one can force them to any schedule they don't agree with. Put them, not your wife, first.

[laterbloomer]

Mar 11, 2023 5:41:14 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Mar 10, 2023 19:46:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

Can you get your own place and do alternating weeks?

I hope we can work something out like that.  I definitely need to make sure I have a place for them...if she gets the house, I have no doubt she will end up losing it.

Just how bad were you that you would lose custody to someone with diagnosed borderline personality disorder?

[haapai]

It's not diagnosed. 

[spartyparty]

Mar 11, 2023 11:44:36 GMT -5 haapai said:

It's not diagnosed. 

Correct...I have absolutely no doubt that is what she has.  You only need to exhibit 5 of the 9 traits, she checks the box on at least 8 of them....hell it could be all 9.

[NancysSummerSip]

Mar 10, 2023 4:43:59 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Thanks everyone!  

The wife does have mental issues and I've known that, but she has sought help when she needed it.  I never really delved into her issues for a better understanding...but just days before being told about wanting a divorce, my sixteen year old had informed me that he thought mother had borderline personality disorder.  And wow...after all the reading I have done, everything makes complete fucking sense now....unfortunately, it is much too late and the wife can't see it (neither does her therapist), so it will remain untreated.

Anyhow, this passage really hits the nail on the head:

"It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional – rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It’s like pouring the best of yourself into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you’ll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory “event horizon.” But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colours."

First, good to see you here again. Second, sorry to hear you are going through this.

And that passage is very profound - I am going to share it with a friend of mine who has been through this exact scenario. His XW is an emotional and financial greed monster - nothing he did was ever enough or ever right. Eventually she took off with another man (leaving my friend to raise their daughter), looking for the greener grass. It isn't green enough for her anywhere. She dumped the new boyfriend she cheated with and has found yet another, but still demands money from every man she's been with, and money from her mother (who told her to go shit in her hat).

Sadly, there is no helping some people, unless they profoundly want the help and want to make the changes above all else.

[laterbloomer]

Mar 11, 2023 13:08:56 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Mar 11, 2023 11:44:36 GMT -5 haapai said:

It's not diagnosed.

Correct...I have absolutely no doubt that is what she has. You only need to exhibit 5 of the 9 traits, she checks the box on at least 8 of them....hell it could be all 9.

OK, but that doesn't answer my main question. How could you possibly lose custody to her?

[tallguy]

Mar 11, 2023 15:22:13 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Mar 11, 2023 13:08:56 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Correct...I have absolutely no doubt that is what she has. You only need to exhibit 5 of the 9 traits, she checks the box on at least 8 of them....hell it could be all 9.

OK, but that doesn't answer my main question. How could you possibly lose custody to her?

Because the better alternative does not always win out at the time.  Ask me how I know.  

[spartyparty]

Mar 11, 2023 14:58:13 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Mar 10, 2023 4:43:59 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Thanks everyone!  

The wife does have mental issues and I've known that, but she has sought help when she needed it.  I never really delved into her issues for a better understanding...but just days before being told about wanting a divorce, my sixteen year old had informed me that he thought mother had borderline personality disorder.  And wow...after all the reading I have done, everything makes complete fucking sense now....unfortunately, it is much too late and the wife can't see it (neither does her therapist), so it will remain untreated.

Anyhow, this passage really hits the nail on the head:

"It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional – rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It’s like pouring the best of yourself into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you’ll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory “event horizon.” But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colours."

First, good to see you here again. Second, sorry to hear you are going through this.

And that passage is very profound - I am going to share it with a friend of mine who has been through this exact scenario. His XW is an emotional and financial greed monster - nothing he did was ever enough or ever right. Eventually she took off with another man (leaving my friend to raise their daughter), looking for the greener grass. It isn't green enough for her anywhere. She dumped the new boyfriend she cheated with and has found yet another, but still demands money from every man she's been with, and money from her mother (who told her to go shit in her hat).

Sadly, there is no helping some people, unless they profoundly want the help and want to make the changes above all else.

Thanks! Good to be back and see all of you again! 🙂

[spartyparty]

Mar 11, 2023 15:22:13 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Mar 11, 2023 13:08:56 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Correct...I have absolutely no doubt that is what she has. You only need to exhibit 5 of the 9 traits, she checks the box on at least 8 of them....hell it could be all 9.

OK, but that doesn't answer my main question. How could you possibly lose custody to her?

She is a high functioning BPD. The kids want to stay with the house...i have run the numbers to buy her out and keep it myself, but i just don't see it working.
Maybe i could get some support from her and that would help for a couple of years, but after that i would likely have to sell.

We are going to try mediation, but ultimately it might be up to the court and kids to decide. I just want to be in a position where i can provide for them one way or the other.

[tallguy]

Mar 11, 2023 18:00:58 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Mar 11, 2023 15:22:13 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

OK, but that doesn't answer my main question. How could you possibly lose custody to her?

She is a high functioning BPD. The kids want to stay with the house...i have run the numbers to buy her out and keep it myself, but i just don't see it working.
Maybe i could get some support from her and that would help for a couple of years, but after that i would likely have to sell.

We are going to try mediation, but ultimately it might be up to the court and kids to decide. I just want to be in a position where i can provide for them one way or the other.

Good luck, but be aware that even if you think it gets settled, it may not be.  My wife had issues, and she and I separated.  I had our son with me, and when the divorce process really began she essentially stole him out of my house without talking to me.  We ultimately went through mediation.  The house was in my name, and even though she tried to make it difficult, I kept that.  We agreed on joint custody with alternating weeks.  My son was 16 as well, and he decided that he wanted to switch every two weeks instead to make it easier.  I didn't have a problem with that, but before he even came back to me he decided not to do that.  Being a teenager, he decided it was "better" to have little or no structure and supervision most of the time rather than be somewhere that had structure and expectations in place.

My wife was absent or unavailable much of the time even without counting her own issues.  He ended up spending most nights on his computer in his room and then sleeping much of the day, eventually developing his own issues with depression, etc.  I did get him back, and he is doing much better now, but it took years for him to fully realize how unhealthy the situation was for him.  

Again, best of luck to you, but it may not necessarily be in your hands anyway.       

[spartyparty]

Mar 11, 2023 19:23:45 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Mar 11, 2023 18:00:58 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

She is a high functioning BPD. The kids want to stay with the house...i have run the numbers to buy her out and keep it myself, but i just don't see it working.
Maybe i could get some support from her and that would help for a couple of years, but after that i would likely have to sell.

We are going to try mediation, but ultimately it might be up to the court and kids to decide. I just want to be in a position where i can provide for them one way or the other.

Good luck, but be aware that even if you think it gets settled, it may not be.  My wife had issues, and she and I separated.  I had our son with me, and when the divorce process really began she essentially stole him out of my house without talking to me.  We ultimately went through mediation.  The house was in my name, and even though she tried to make it difficult, I kept that.  We agreed on joint custody with alternating weeks.  My son was 16 as well, and he decided that he wanted to switch every two weeks instead to make it easier.  I didn't have a problem with that, but before he even came back to me he decided not to do that.  Being a teenager, he decided it was "better" to have little or no structure and supervision most of the time rather than be somewhere that had structure and expectations in place.

My wife was absent or unavailable much of the time even without counting her own issues.  He ended up spending most nights on his computer in his room and then sleeping much of the day, eventually developing his own issues with depression, etc.  I did get him back, and he is doing much better now, but it took years for him to fully realize how unhealthy the situation was for him.  

Again, best of luck to you, but it may not necessarily be in your hands anyway.       

Thanks Tallguy.  Unfortunately for me...back when the kids were around 4 to 6 years old (my relationship with them up to that point was fantastic - wife was working weekends so the kids and I had the whole weekend together), I was trying to provide structure, but the wife would sabotage all my efforts.  I was always wrong about everything...and I remember feeling like she wanted me to be her, or be their friend instead of being their father.  So I was confused on who or what I was supposed to be, and ultimately withdrew, and I guess I was absent a lot of time.   With all of her spending, I became pretty adverse to spending money, which meant that I would rarely take the kids out and do fun things with them.  Don't get me wrong, I still spent time with them, but not as much as I should have and I wasn't always there for them when they needed me.

[Empire the P.A.]

I’m still processing that I got to pay more than I was expecting for my 2022 tax bill ($20,000) . Well, live and learn. I have the money but I was going to use that to pay off my credit cards. Well I guess I’ll just chip away at cards for a little longer. 

[haapai]

Mar 15, 2023 18:06:59 GMT -5 Empire the P.A. said:

I’m still processing that I got to pay more than I was expecting for my 2022 tax bill ($20,000) . Well, live and learn. I have the money but I was going to use that to pay off my credit cards. Well I guess I’ll just chip away at cards for a little longer. 

prolly posted on the wrong thread.  I'm guessing that because I've done it. 

[Pink Cashmere]

Mar 12, 2023 4:47:12 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Mar 11, 2023 19:23:45 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Good luck, but be aware that even if you think it gets settled, it may not be.  My wife had issues, and she and I separated.  I had our son with me, and when the divorce process really began she essentially stole him out of my house without talking to me.  We ultimately went through mediation.  The house was in my name, and even though she tried to make it difficult, I kept that.  We agreed on joint custody with alternating weeks.  My son was 16 as well, and he decided that he wanted to switch every two weeks instead to make it easier.  I didn't have a problem with that, but before he even came back to me he decided not to do that.  Being a teenager, he decided it was "better" to have little or no structure and supervision most of the time rather than be somewhere that had structure and expectations in place.

My wife was absent or unavailable much of the time even without counting her own issues.  He ended up spending most nights on his computer in his room and then sleeping much of the day, eventually developing his own issues with depression, etc.  I did get him back, and he is doing much better now, but it took years for him to fully realize how unhealthy the situation was for him.  

Again, best of luck to you, but it may not necessarily be in your hands anyway.       

Thanks Tallguy.  Unfortunately for me...back when the kids were around 4 to 6 years old (my relationship with them up to that point was fantastic - wife was working weekends so the kids and I had the whole weekend together), I was trying to provide structure, but the wife would sabotage all my efforts.  I was always wrong about everything...and I remember feeling like she wanted me to be her, or be their friend instead of being their father.  So I was confused on who or what I was supposed to be, and ultimately withdrew, and I guess I was absent a lot of time.   With all of her spending, I became pretty adverse to spending money, which meant that I would rarely take the kids out and do fun things with them.  Don't get me wrong, I still spent time with them, but not as much as I should have and I wasn't always there for them when they needed me.

I suggest you make sure your son keeps going to therapy. And maybe you should go too. You admit that you kind of withdrew from your family and your children, that may be something you need to deal with on your own, and possibly with your children.

I say that because you owning that might turn into guilt at some point, and taking responsibility for our actions and acting out of guilt are 2 very different things. Guilt is not a productive emotion.

My SO did things out of guilt after he separated and divorced his daughters’ Mother, and that led to a lack of good boundaries and some unhealthy behavior on both sides, in his relationships with his daughters. Which led to some serious problems when he and I started dating seriously, and got even worse after we moved together. 

I am not a psychologist or whatever, I just read a lot and think a lot, probably just enough to be dangerous lol, and I think that maybe if my SO had forgiven himself years ago, for whatever his part was in his marriage ending, and no longer being in the household with his children, he would’ve had a clearer path for moving forward in a healthy way for his daughters’ and for himself.

So I’m just saying that maybe you need to deal with what you’ve admitted about withdrawing, and find a way to forgive yourself for it so you can move forward in a healthy way for you and your children while you work on being more present in their lives. Especially if your wife has some kind of personality disorder, your children need to have at least one sensible, responsible parent that they know they can count on, and it looks like that’s gonna have to be you. If you need therapy to sort out some stuff, or you need to go to therapy with your children to sort out some stuff with them, if you have a good therapist, it can only help your relationship with your children and help you be the best Dad you can be for them.

I am wishing you and your family the best. If you can, please keep us updated on how things are going. 

[Empire the P.A.]

Mar 15, 2023 18:12:19 GMT -5 haapai said:

Mar 15, 2023 18:06:59 GMT -5 Empire the P.A. said:

I’m still processing that I got to pay more than I was expecting for my 2022 tax bill ($20,000) . Well, live and learn. I have the money but I was going to use that to pay off my credit cards. Well I guess I’ll just chip away at cards for a little longer. 

prolly posted on the wrong thread.  I'm guessing that because I've done it. 

Ha! Was just a little look at my train wreck story. I can only face a bit at a time. 

[spartyparty]

Mar 15, 2023 18:41:09 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Mar 12, 2023 4:47:12 GMT -5 spartyparty said:

Thanks Tallguy.  Unfortunately for me...back when the kids were around 4 to 6 years old (my relationship with them up to that point was fantastic - wife was working weekends so the kids and I had the whole weekend together), I was trying to provide structure, but the wife would sabotage all my efforts.  I was always wrong about everything...and I remember feeling like she wanted me to be her, or be their friend instead of being their father.  So I was confused on who or what I was supposed to be, and ultimately withdrew, and I guess I was absent a lot of time.   With all of her spending, I became pretty adverse to spending money, which meant that I would rarely take the kids out and do fun things with them.  Don't get me wrong, I still spent time with them, but not as much as I should have and I wasn't always there for them when they needed me.

I suggest you make sure your son keeps going to therapy. And maybe you should go too. You admit that you kind of withdrew from your family and your children, that may be something you need to deal with on your own, and possibly with your children.

I say that because you owning that might turn into guilt at some point, and taking responsibility for our actions and acting out of guilt are 2 very different things. Guilt is not a productive emotion.

My SO did things out of guilt after he separated and divorced his daughters’ Mother, and that led to a lack of good boundaries and some unhealthy behavior on both sides, in his relationships with his daughters. Which led to some serious problems when he and I started dating seriously, and got even worse after we moved together. 

I am not a psychologist or whatever, I just read a lot and think a lot, probably just enough to be dangerous lol, and I think that maybe if my SO had forgiven himself years ago, for whatever his part was in his marriage ending, and no longer being in the household with his children, he would’ve had a clearer path for moving forward in a healthy way for his daughters’ and for himself.

So I’m just saying that maybe you need to deal with what you’ve admitted about withdrawing, and find a way to forgive yourself for it so you can move forward in a healthy way for you and your children while you work on being more present in their lives. Especially if your wife has some kind of personality disorder, your children need to have at least one sensible, responsible parent that they know they can count on, and it looks like that’s gonna have to be you. If you need therapy to sort out some stuff, or you need to go to therapy with your children to sort out some stuff with them, if you have a good therapist, it can only help your relationship with your children and help you be the best Dad you can be for them.

I am wishing you and your family the best. If you can, please keep us updated on how things are going. 

Thank you.  I had my first visit with a therapist yesterday.,,and my oldest son and I had a joint session with his therapist on Tuesday.  

[seriousthistime]

Mar 15, 2023 18:06:59 GMT -5 Empire the P.A. said:

I’m still processing that I got to pay more than I was expecting for my 2022 tax bill ($20,000) . Well, live and learn. I have the money but I was going to use that to pay off my credit cards. Well I guess I’ll just chip away at cards for a little longer. 

Wow, pay $20,000 more than you were expecting, or pay $20,000 total? Either way, that is a whopping tax bill.  Is it only federal, or a combination of federal/state/local income taxes?  Have you adjusted your withholding so it doesn't happen again in 2023?  The earlier you adjust it, the less the per-month adjustment will be. One year I didn't get around to adjusting my withholding until around mid-year and the adjustment reduced one of my income sources to almost nothing.   

[andi9899]

Mar 15, 2023 18:06:59 GMT -5 Empire the P.A. said:

I’m still processing that I got to pay more than I was expecting for my 2022 tax bill ($20,000) . Well, live and learn. I have the money but I was going to use that to pay off my credit cards. Well I guess I’ll just chip away at cards for a little longer.

Isn't the interest rate on the credit cards much higher than the penalties on the taxes? Why not pay the credit cards and make the payment you would have made on the CCs to the taxes. It will probably cost you less and get you to a $0 balance faster on both. I don't think the tax man can come for you if you're making payments. I may be wrong and I'm sure others will correct me if I am.

[Empire the P.A.]

seriousthistime, it is a combination of federal and state. I should of had a bigger percentage of withholding taken from a distribution. My mistake. 
andi9899, maybe but I hate having the tax man on my back. 

[haapai]

Mar 16, 2023 14:07:08 GMT -5 Empire the P.A. said:

seriousthistime , it is a combination of federal and state. I should of had a bigger percentage of withholding taken from a distribution. My mistake. 
andi9899 , maybe but I hate having the tax man on my back. 

In theory, if you gave us enough information, we could calculate exactly how much having credit card debt instead of the tax man on your back will cost you in additional interest.  The calculation is easy if you have the ability to devote a set amount of money each month toward the debt. 

You should probably attempt to do that calculation. 

On the other hand, credit card debt has some strange traits.  The amount that they want each month is very small.  You pretty much have to double or triple the amount that they require you to pay in order to make progress.  But because they require so little, you can be quite aggressive about paying it back and you don't have to reserve much in order to make the next payment. 

[Empire the P.A.]

haapai, 4 credit cards with a total balance of $21,544  .
I avoided adding up the total for the longest. The interest rates range from 19% to 27%. I was thinking of doing a balance transfer to another card offering 0% for one year with a 3% fee for the transfer. Or just wait for my last check from the job I retired from to pay off the majority. I’m owed probably around $15,000. I know I will get this last check this year but not exactly when. 

[busymom]

JMHO, Empire the P.A., but I'd take the 0% credit card offer with the 3% transfer fee.  Years ago, when I was new to the boards, DH & I had a lot of debt, and that was one of the "vehicles" we used to dig ourselves out of debt.  Our lesson was learned, and we no longer carry balances, but it took years to dig ourselves out.  Wishing you all the best, as I cannot articulate the relief you feel when you are finally free of debt.  

[haapai]

Mar 16, 2023 19:32:15 GMT -5 Empire the P.A. said:

haapai , 4 credit cards with a total balance of $21,544  .
I avoided adding up the total for the longest. The interest rates range from 19% to 27%. I was thinking of doing a balance transfer to another card offering 0% for one year with a 3% fee for the transfer. Or just wait for my last check from the job I retired from to pay off the majority. I’m owed probably around $15,000. I know I will get this last check this year but not exactly when. 

Those are worse interest rates than I had imagined.  My imagination topped out at 18% and I was wishfully thinking 14.99% and hoping that you owed less than $20K on them. 

I think that it would be prudent for you to do a lot of math and budgeting.  27% is killer.  Nothing that I said about the relative ease of repaying credit card debt compared to an installment arrangement with the tax man holds up when confronted with those interest rates. 

I think that you should probably start your own thread.  Also, you should pat yourself on the back for coming clean.  What comes next may be gnarly, but at least you've taken some baby steps toward facing it. 

You're probably not the only long-time YMer who is off the rails.  I suspect that quite a few of us have lost control of our finances in the last few years but are still capable of listening to suggestions and advice.  Our finances might be train-wrecky, but that does not mean that we have to shoot down all well-meaning advice. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 3, 2023 8:58:21 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I should recruit from the Paying for College Facebook page.   Plenty of people setting themselves up for financial ruin over there. 

lol, like I did?


spoiler: it turned out ok for me