Is anyone else here buying the book?

[Tiny]

Jan 13, 2023 14:54:45 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

No-one knows what happened there and the Royals aren't going to say.

And there's the rub. It's all about control of the mirrors and smoke. The Royal family will say whatever fits their narrative. And presumably Harry will say what fits his narrative.


The saddest part of this is that it tends to invalidate the actual emotions, memories, accomplishments, "sins" or thoughts of ALL the players.


I don't think anyone would question the idea that the Royals all have "Masks" that they wear in public. Who assigns them those "Masks"? How much say do they have in modifying them?

This idea/questions takes a lot of the 'allure' out of the conjecture about the Royals. I have no idea what Harry or William actual think or feel (or the rest of the royal family). It's all smoke and mirrors.

[TheOtherMe]

If my husband was doing what Charles was doing with Camilla, I would probably have affairs, too.  

Diana was not perfect.  No one is but she was not loved by Charles ever.

[Spellbound454]

 First of all, it's always been well known that a virgin was a priority for the wife of a future king. I remember the big fuss when Andrew was married, because Sarah was NOT a virgin, and he was only the brother to Charles.

Why would this have anything to do with the Queen?

  Do you really think they'll allow anything to come out about Charles or William that makes them look like anything but saints?

They aren't there to be Saints or celebrities. They are there to head the Monarchy and do what Monarchs do as Head of State. (A job they do extremely well)..... Why would anyone even care about gossip?
They turn up say the right things, knight people and support charities .... whilst everyone else just gets on with their lives.

 and tries to correct any lies told about him,

He is raking in millions to keep himself in the lifestyle he has been accustomed to
by selling out his family.
You are only hearing one side.

Enable him if you wish, keep him by all means

but there will come a time when people get bored of all the whinging from people who are swanning around on a 15 million estate and not living in the real World.

[Spellbound454]

 The Royal family will say whatever fits their narrative.

They don't have a narrative. Never complain, never explain.

 I don't think anyone would question the idea that the Royals all have "Masks" that they wear in public. Who assigns them those "Masks"? How much say do they have in modifying them?

Masks? They have a job to do in the service of the Crown.
and they do it well.

We don't really care about the minutae of day to day Royal life...... ie Turn up, do what you have been assigned to to, then everybody goes home.
It really is that simple.

 invalidate the actual emotions, memories, accomplishments,

Who cares? we are subjects not social workers.

[Opti]

Jan 13, 2023 14:54:45 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

  IMO good fathers don't cheat on their wives nor let them attempt suicide etc.

Yes Camilla was the third person in his parents marriage..... but again its skewed to one side.... because the truth is Diana had loads of lovers.
Skewed? Seriously? He was in love with Camilla when he married Diana. Really what would she accomplish if she had never slept with anyone else after Charles went off to resume his affair with Camilla? Charles would just magically come back to her even though he loved someone else? 

 You aren't part of the royal family, and neither am I

I am a subject, have known nothing else ........ and have seen most of them.

 His own mother set up his marriage for failure by decreeing then he could not marry Camilla and had to pick a virgin.

Did She? ... You do realise "The Crown" was fiction and not a documentary. 
I have yet to see any of the Crown. This is from my memory of back then and how it was in the press that the Queen would not allow Charles to marry Camilla even if she got a divorce. Remember Wallace Simpson and Prince Edward? 
No-one knows what happened there and the Royals aren't going to say.

[Spellbound454]

 Skewed? Seriously? He was in love with Camilla when he married Diana. Really what would she accomplish if she had never slept with anyone else after Charles went off to resume his affair with Camilla? Charles would just magically come back to her even though he loved someone else?

I meant skewed from Harry's point of view.

Children largely don't like their step-parent because they want their mum and dad back together. Its a fact..... and children can become difficult.

Then they grow up and realise that the World doesn't revolve around them ......... and their estranged parent needs and deserves a bit of happiness too

What we are hearing from Harry.... is a child.


Diana was disturbed and difficult....... Charles said he stayed faithful until the marriage was past the point of no return... and there is no evidence that this isn't the case.

We make the mistake of putting ourselves in their shoes..... and making value judgements based on our own experiences.
but the truth is, that the aristocracy have always taken lovers..... and as long as its done privately the spouse doesn't seem to mind.

 the Queen would not allow Charles to marry Camilla even if she got a divorce

Charles did marry Camilla...... and she is actually doing fine.

She never wanted to be Queen but she maintains her dignity and is a great support for Charles.


Philip was head of the family and Elizabeth had a whole raft of advisors, as every Monarch does. (those who aren't tyrannical) Decisions weren't theirs alone.

[Opti]

I don't think its skewed or skewed the way you are telling yourself. Diana was just an OK 20 year old when she got married to 32 yr old Charles. I think the fact that he cheated on her from the beginning and being put into the straight jacket of being a royal is what made her depressed and led to her acting out. Her own husband who should have been her greatest protector abandoned her emotionally and physically. I don't give him or the monarchy any points for him waiting until 1996 to divorce her.

In 1981 the Queen would not allow Charles to marry Camilla. She eventually relented and yes they got married in 2005. I thought this was common knowledge as both choices were telegraphed through the tabloids and regular press for months before the marriages. 

Its clear you haven't read any of the press on Harry's book or thought about it much. Both Harry and William did not want their dad to marry Camilla. It had nothing to do with wanting their dad back with their mum. Harry more than William knew how miserable Charles made Diana, and given Diana was dead in 1997, its an awful weird assertion for you to make.

Harry is far from perfect, but he was born into a home fraught with tension between his parents. I don't know what Camilla wanted. If you get involved with the heir to the throne and he doesn't abdicate, becoming queen or queen consort is pretty much part of the package. 

[TheOtherMe]

The books I read have said that Camilla and Charles were communicating on the honeymoon.  Even if it wasn't physical, it wasn't being faithful to his wife.

Diana should have gone with her instincts to call the wedding off.  With the exception of not having her boys, she would have been so much better off.

The entire royal family is very dysfunctional.  

Harry is an adult who is telling his story the way he sees it.  

Bought the book this morning so I shall be reading it.

Keep defending the monarchy.  You have a pedophile who is fine and dandy as for as the Firm is concerned.  

The monarchy should be dissolved.  All of the money the "subjects" spend to support it would be better off spent on the people of the country.  

Diana was murdered and the Firm and it sounds like the subjects don't care that a human being was murdered.  

[Opti]

I do think Camilla did try to rehab her image because she was sick of how she was portrayed. I think Harry is wrong on some counts and I think she did not need to want to be queen or married to Charles to want to be treated better by the tabloids or legit press.

Harry could use some serious guidance. He should stop answering any questions about wanting to reconcile and push down the desire for apologies for Meghan and himself if he has them. 

[Spellbound454]

 

 the straight jacket of being a royal is what made her depressed and led to her acting out.

She was thought to have borderline personality disorder... so was troubled to start with.

  She eventually relented and yes they got married in 2005.

Yes, she is the love of his life and he has been married to Camilla longer than he was Diana.

 Its clear you haven't read any of the press on Harry's book or thought about it much.

Are you kidding? Not sure what its like in the US but over here its wall-to-wall broadcasting. We are absolutely sick of it.

 Its clear you haven't read any of the press on Harry's book or thought about it much. Both Harry and William did not want their dad to marry Camilla. It had nothing to do with wanting their dad back with their mum. Harry more than William knew how miserable Charles made Diana, and given Diana was dead in 1997, its an awful weird assertion for you to make.

Just pointing out that children sometimes don't like their step-parent and gave the reasons why.

 Harry is an adult who is telling his story the way he sees it.



Bought the book this morning so I shall be reading it.

Do what you want....... but just remember that you have only got half a story from someone known to be economical with the truth...... before you hoist your battle brand and charge to his defence.

The monarchy should be dissolved.

Well its not for you to decide but .... Replace it with what? The whole US Trump saga of republicanism..... is a good enough reason to keep them
Australia were thinking about it it but come to the conclusion that a constitutional monarchy is pretty steady..... and the alternative could be worse.

[daisylu]

Jan 14, 2023 13:57:10 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 

 the straight jacket of being a royal is what made her depressed and led to her acting out.

She was thought to have borderline personality disorder... so was troubled to start with.

  She eventually relented and yes they got married in 2005.

Yes, she is the love of his life and he has been married to Camilla longer than he was Diana.

 Its clear you haven't read any of the press on Harry's book or thought about it much.

Are you kidding? Not sure what its like in the US but over here its wall-to-wall broadcasting. We are absolutely sick of it.

 Its clear you haven't read any of the press on Harry's book or thought about it much. Both Harry and William did not want their dad to marry Camilla. It had nothing to do with wanting their dad back with their mum. Harry more than William knew how miserable Charles made Diana, and given Diana was dead in 1997, its an awful weird assertion for you to make.

Just pointing out that children sometimes don't like their step-parent and gave the reasons why.

 Harry is an adult who is telling his story the way he sees it.



Bought the book this morning so I shall be reading it.

Do what you want....... but just remember that you have only got half a story from someone known to be economical with the truth...... before you hoist your battle brand and charge to his defence.

The monarchy should be dissolved.

Well its not for you to decide but .... Replace it with what? The whole US Trump saga of republicanism..... is a good enough reason to keep them
Australia were thinking about it it but come to the conclusion that a constitutional monarchy is pretty steady..... and the alternative could be worse.

I won't read the book, but I can't with you. So ridiculous

[TheOtherMe]

Most of my British friends want the monarchy dissolved.  They are tired of paying for it.  

Doesn't your parliamentary system run the government, not the monarchy?

[Spellbound454]

 Most of my British friends want the monarchy dissolved. They are tired of paying for it.



Doesn't your parliamentary system run the government, not the monarchy?

Most of the population wants to keep them

We have two houses, like you, upper and lower chambers.

The lower chamber The House of Commons.... is where the elected representatives are.

The Monarch is the Head of State.

We cant have despot leaders like some Countries in the World do clinging to power..... because we already have a King
and if any of the leaders are voted out.... they have to go.

 Harry could use some serious guidance. He should stop answering any questions about wanting to reconcile and push down the desire for apologies for Meghan and himself if he has them.

Absolutely .... I don't know who his advisers are but the person he is hurting the most is himself.
He has lost his family ... He has lost his Country, legislation is going through that will strip him of his titles (for his betrayal) so he'll be losing his identity ........ and when the "attacking the Monarchy" phase is losing public interest, what's he going to do for the rest of his life.

[chiver78]

live a normal life? 🤷‍♀️

if he's stripped of his titles on top of his royal income and responsibilities, he can be free to do whatever TF he wants to do. and I wish him well. Spare was the perfect title for his book.

and, you ridicule Trump Republicanism, but can't see that you worship the Firm the way the MAGAts worship Trump. it's def ridiculous, as someone else just said.

[TheOtherMe]

  Thanks chiver



Harry has also expressed concern for William's children.  At least one and maybe two of them will be considered the Spare.  He doesn't want them to live a life like he had to do.  

He said he was expected to donate a kidney if it would keep William alive or anything else medically.  So the Firm is willing to sacrifice the Spare for the King.

Rubbish

[Opti]

Absolutely .... I don't know who his advisers are but the person he is hurting the most is himself.

He has lost his family ... He has lost his Country, legislation is going through that will strip him of his titles (for his betrayal) so he'll be losing his identity ........ and when the "attacking the Monarchy" phase is losing public interest, what's he going to do for the rest of his life.

I don't think Harry is hurting himself the most. The British public, the pundits, and perhaps parts of the palace seem to be addicted to melodrama. He has not betrayed the monarchy. He has not forced a coup to depose his grandmother, his father, or even the heir. He has not stolen from the royal treasury or conspired with other powers to take over the British monarchy. That would be betrayal.

Almost everything I've read about people that aren't Harry are nothing burgers. Interesting, but nothing that should fell a monarchy or the people within it unless they are horribly weak and incapable.

So the bridesmaids' dresses were delivered too big and there was drama around fixing them. Big deal. That could be reframed as crap that happens to lots of people. The bit with the Hitler costume and William saying Harry should wear it, shows that royals are people, and they don't always protect the monarchy. William was probably being a kind of older brother that delights in the mistakes of his younger brother. Given the British tabloids, are stories on the royal family ever out of style?

[Opti]

I was just looking at what books have come out on various royal family members and found the video below. Someone took Harry's comment about skin color and wrote a book including it and allegedly fleshing out the circumstance. 

[laterbloomer]

Jan 13, 2023 4:45:02 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

sounded like Charles was not a good father

How do you know?.... You are only getting half a story... which has been sensationalised to make money
and from what we know Harry's truth and the real truth are not the same thing.

He is very unpopular over here and is seen as a traitor and an overprivileged man child.
He has dined out on his mothers death and the whole "woe is me" without ever admitting any culpability for his own actions.
Always someone else's fault.

The Royals have said nothing......... and sometimes, silence is the loudest noise in the room.

The Royals have said plenty, both in straight forward statements Charles and William have made and more manipulative ways by the work of their massive propaganda machines. Where do you think the anti Harry and Anti Meghan articles originate from?
That said I don't understand why we still perpetuate the whole Royal thing. Basically their ancestors conquered and manipulated their way into power and wealth and for some reason too many people are comfortable cowtowing to it like they are somehow superior beings. I hate Trump with a burning passion but I liked the fact that he did not buy into the protocol bullshit with Elizabeth. It is ridiculous that people are expected to bow and curtsy and walk three steps behind and call them your royal highness...

[laterbloomer]

The only "Job" I can see that they perform is being a well oiled propaganda machine for England. They help give the impression that the British Empire is still a thing.
What exactly does being a royal subject mean and why are people OK with being someone's subject?

[Spellbound454]

I don't think Harry is hurting himself the most. The British public, the pundits, and perhaps parts of the palace seem to be addicted to melodrama. He has not betrayed the monarchy. He has not forced a coup to depose his grandmother, his father, or even the heir. He has not stolen from the royal treasury or conspired with other powers to take over the British monarchy. That would be betrayal.

Did he ask permission before he blabbed out spite, half truths and allegations about his family?

No...... he betrayed them just to make himself money.

There is no way back from that, not from his bewildered family or the public.

Its not going to topple the monarchy, if anything the public have rallied to support the King and the Prince of Wales.

The Royals rule by consent, and if most of the public want him to lose the titles that belong to the people..... then so be it.

The titles aren't there just to get him in to elite parties....... and...... lets face it, if he wasn't titled at birth, no-one would be interested in him at all.

He said he was expected to donate a kidney if it would keep William alive or anything else medically. So the Firm is willing to sacrifice the Spare for the King

I agree, its rubbish. Sound like the bleating's of a jealous kid who didn't get his own way.

 I was just looking at what books have come out on various royal family members

Yes other people being seduced by money.

[Spellbound454]

  Where do you think the anti Harry and Anti Meghan articles originate from?

From their own actions.

Harry seems to imagine the press are guilty for everything bad that happens to him (probably because he still blames them for his mothers death)

He wants to control the press ..... (which is not going to happen in a free democracy)............ but they aren't nearly as bad as Harry seems to make out.

 I don't understand why we still perpetuate the whole Royal thing.

We live in a constitutional Monarchy , which is a pretty infallible political system... and they are our government.

Not "superior beings" or celebrities or anything else.

Is Joe Biden a superior being or a celebrity?

The only difference is that we have our Heads of State for longer periods.... which provides stability as the elected house chops and changes.

 royal subject mean and why are people OK with being someone's subject?

Its just a traditional word is all ... not in the 12th century anymore.

  I hate Trump with a burning passion but I liked the fact that he did not buy into the protocol bullshit with Elizabeth

Then why bother hosting someone if you are just going to be rude?

Protocol on an international stage is a work of Art.

[Spellbound454]

Let me just point something out.

Harry and Meghan accused the Royal family of being racist on the Opra interview.

People lost their jobs when they said they didn't believe it.

You guys railed at me on this forum when I said I didn't believe it, calling me racist, which is horribly offensive.

Harry and Meghan let this allegation perpetuate for a year, even accepting an

award for calling out racism in the Royal family.

Then he says this to the statement - You called the family racist.



“No I didn’t… The British press said that… Did Meghan ever mention that they’re racist?… There was concern about his skin colour,” the duke said.



Brady then asked: “Wouldn’t you describe that as essentially racist?”



Harry replied: “I wouldn’t, not having lived within that family,” adding: “Going back to the difference between what my understanding is because of my own experience, the difference between racism and unconscious bias, the two things are different.”


So its all the fault of the press?
Are the people who suffered abuse in the hysteria that this caused going to get an apology from them?
Are they going to give their award back?

[Opti]

Jan 15, 2023 6:21:36 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Let me just point something out.

Harry and Meghan accused the Royal family of being racist on the Opra interview.

People lost their jobs when they said they didn't believe it.

You guys railed at me on this forum when I said I didn't believe it, calling me racist, which is horribly offensive.

Harry and Meghan let this allegation perpetuate for a year, even accepting an

award for calling out racism in the Royal family.

Then he says this to the statement - You called the family racist.



“No I didn’t… The British press said that… Did Meghan ever mention that they’re racist?… There was concern about his skin colour,” the duke said.



Brady then asked: “Wouldn’t you describe that as essentially racist?”



Harry replied: “I wouldn’t, not having lived within that family,” adding: “Going back to the difference between what my understanding is because of my own experience, the difference between racism and unconscious bias, the two things are different.”


So its all the fault of the press?
Are the people who suffered abuse in the hysteria that this caused going to get an apology from them?
Are they going to give their award back?

I'm going to point something out as well. I found the transcript of the Oprah interview and it is Meghan who brings up the someone commented on the potential color of our child issue.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/14277841/meghan-markle-oprah-interview-full-transcript/

This is what Harry said on the issue-

Oprah: Well, what is particularly striking is what Meghan shared with us earlier, is that no one wants to admit that there’s anything about race or that race has played a role in the trolling and the vitriol, and yet Meghan shared with us that there was a conversation with you about Archie’s skin tone.



Harry: Mm-hmm.



Oprah: What was that conversation?



Harry: That conversation I’m never going to share, but at the time . . . at the time, it was awkward. I was a bit shocked.



Oprah: Can you . . . can you tell us what the question was?



Harry: No. I don’t . . . I’m not comfortable with sharing that.



Oprah: OK.



Harry: But that was . . . that was right at the beginning, right?



Oprah: Like, what will the baby look like?



Harry: Yeah, what will the kids look like?

The people who lost their jobs I think mostly deserved to lose them. Piers Morgan is a pompous blowhard and unable to take what he dishes out regularly for even five minutes. He wasn't willing to apologize or tone things down, so yes he was let go. His employers did not do it for Harry, but for their unhappy viewers. 

[Spellbound454]

  His employers did not do it for Harry, but for their unhappy viewers.

I wouldn't be so sure, the viewing figures went down when Piers Morgan left and was villified.
People used to watch the program for him,

Have you got the transcript for what Meghan said?


"Meghan explained that Harry had recalled conversations he'd had with members of the family. She added: "It was really hard to be able to see those as compartmentalised conversations. I wasn’t able to follow up with why, but that — if that’s the assumption you’re making, I think that feels like a pretty safe one,"

She is implying racism, despite Harry's backtracking....... and its offensive and false.

Caused people screaming all over the newspapers that the Royal family were racist

and they even got an award for calling out racism in the Royal family. How is this right?

[busymom]

Do you really think Pier Morgan is unbiased?  LOL!  He's a fanboy of the royals as much as MAGAs are fans of Trump.  And, I'm glad you brought up the subject of Trump.  (For the record, I did NOT vote for him.)  It is well known that Trump was not respected internationally at all.  Now, Queen Elizabeth WAS respected.  Unfortunately for Charles, he is not.  Of course, his own bad choices have set him up for failure.  He was married to one of the most beautiful women in the world, and instead of treating Diana well, he treated her awfully, not even taking a break from his unattractive mistress when he married.  (I think most of the men on the boards here would agree that Camilla cannot hold a candle to Diana, both in looks or kindness.)  Camilla has literally slept her way to the top.  I'm thankful I'm not British, because there is no way I would curtsy to such a poor example for young girls.  So, we have a man about to be crowned king who does his thinking with his little head, and his "side chick".  If he cannot make good choices in his personal life, how is he going to handle other matters?  I'll wager not too well.  If the monarchy fails, it won't be Harry's fault.  It'll all be on Charles.  So be it.  At least in America we can vote out our failures.  

[TheOtherMe]

I think people are forgetting there are 3 sides to every story and unless a person was in the room when all of the things happened, none of us know the truth.  

There is the stuff being put out through the British media, Harry's book and the truth.  

None of us will ever know the actual truth.  

[TheOtherMe]

I will never understand why the Queen had to sit by herself during the funeral of Philip.  She looked so sad and forlorn with no one there to comfort her.  She was frail herself by then.

That kind of tradition needs to be done away with.

[haapai]

Jan 15, 2023 15:42:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I will never understand why the Queen had to sit by herself during the funeral of Philip.  She looked so sad and forlorn with no one there to comfort her.  She was frail herself by then.

That kind of tradition needs to be done away with.

It wasn't tradition.  It was Covid protocol. 

[Spellbound454]

 Unfortunately for Charles, he is not. Of course, his own bad choices have set him up for failure. He was married to one of the most beautiful women in the world, and instead of treating Diana well, he treated her awfully, not even taking a break from his unattractive mistress when he married. (I think most of the men on the boards here would agree that Camilla cannot hold a candle to Diana, both in looks or kindness.)

You are making a lot of assumptions here.
Its amazing how may people think they know what went on.... by reading a script from someone who wasn't there.

Charles loves Camilla and she supports him.
Its not an easy job being King and he is doing well with the woman he loves by his side.

We don't get to choose who someone else loves. Its not our business.

[chiver78]

Jan 15, 2023 17:18:30 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 Unfortunately for Charles, he is not. Of course, his own bad choices have set him up for failure. He was married to one of the most beautiful women in the world, and instead of treating Diana well, he treated her awfully, not even taking a break from his unattractive mistress when he married. (I think most of the men on the boards here would agree that Camilla cannot hold a candle to Diana, both in looks or kindness.)

You are making a lot of assumptions here.
Its amazing how may people think they know what went on.... by reading a script from someone who wasn't there.

Charles loves Camilla and she supports him.
Its not an easy job being King and he is doing well with the woman he loves by his side.

We don't get to choose who someone else loves. Its not our business.

this is hilarious. you weren't there, either. you're just parroting the bullshit that is the product of the greatest PR firm in the world. 🤣