The Official 2024 Presidential Thread

[djAdvocate]

Aug 20, 2023 10:28:24 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 20, 2023 6:51:50 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

As long as the Mar-a-Lago megalomaniac is around, these candidates are pennies waiting for change and the debate, whether the former president is there or not, is merely a chance for them to dance for King Trump, ever hopeful he and his rabid base of MAGA minions will look on them kindly.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/sucking-up-to-donald-trump-101-a-wannabe-s-guide-for-the-republican-debate/ar-AA1fvDMI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=babc8050507c4744b98b08cc9b2165c0&ei=57

The sooner people accept that Trump is going to be the nominee and figure out how to deal with him and his rabid base, the better IMHO.  

Saw a poll this AM that 61% of republicans are supporting Trump - the highest yet. 72% of those who support him say it’s because they want to show they support him during all these legal battles he’s having, because they continue to believe it was his right to protest the stolen.election.

so he will be the nominee.

i would say he is LIKELY to be the nominee, not he WILL be.  not sure what odds i would give him.  what odds would YOU give him?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 20, 2023 11:12:55 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Aug 20, 2023 10:17:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

I don't think there will be a civil war. While there are true MAGAs, there are less of them, and many of those who supported him in the past are exhausted by him now. While they might vote for him if he becomes the candidate, they are not going to actively fight to split up the country. 

Trump has less political clout now than he had in 2020 when he lost. I think Civil war and Jewish space lasers are almost equally likely. They seem to be brought up by the same people.

I hope you are right. I want to be wrong. That said, you have more Magats in your Congress then before . The polls are saying he would be a serious contender in a presidential election. And he is being very bold calling on the Magats to get violent. I am afraid that forces more organized than him are using him as a lightening rod to activate an armed rebellion. I just hope the good guys are more prepared than they are telling us about.

an armed chaotic rebellion would be nothing against a military, organized response.

[happyhoix]

Aug 20, 2023 14:02:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 20, 2023 10:28:24 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Saw a poll this AM that 61% of republicans are supporting Trump - the highest yet. 72% of those who support him say it’s because they want to show they support him during all these legal battles he’s having, because they continue to believe it was his right to protest the stolen.election.

so he will be the nominee.

i would say he is LIKELY to be the nominee, not he WILL be.  not sure what odds i would give him.  what odds would YOU give him?

Right now it seems like a sure thing, but I hope the early primaries will kick up someone who can beat him. Someone who isn’t DeSantis.

[happyhoix]

Aug 20, 2023 14:04:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 20, 2023 11:12:55 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I hope you are right. I want to be wrong. That said, you have more Magats in your Congress then before . The polls are saying he would be a serious contender in a presidential election. And he is being very bold calling on the Magats to get violent. I am afraid that forces more organized than him are using him as a lightening rod to activate an armed rebellion. I just hope the good guys are more prepared than they are telling us about.

an armed chaotic rebellion would be nothing against a military, organized response.

With way more quasi generals than privates. And as much infighting between the factions as there is between the rebels and the federal forces.

[billisonboard]

Aug 20, 2023 14:46:44 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 20, 2023 14:04:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

an armed chaotic rebellion would be nothing against a military, organized response.

With way more quasi generals than privates. And as much infighting between the factions as there is between the rebels and the federal forces.

You'll aren't seeing Trump becoming America's Zelensky?

[happyhoix]

Aug 20, 2023 15:20:06 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 20, 2023 14:46:44 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

With way more quasi generals than privates. And as much infighting between the factions as there is between the rebels and the federal forces.

You'll aren't seeing Trump becoming America's Zelensky?

I think Trump will lead the coup the same way he lead the country. 

Which means with constant chaos, and by listening to the next person who comes through his door, until the very next person comes through the door, and then the person after that. 

And when things get scary, he’ll cram his golf clubs and boxes of top secret documents and newspaper clippings into his big ass Trump plane and fly off to one of his international resorts someplace without an extradition treaty, leaving his Proud boys and 1%ers and MAGA minions holding the bag. 

[djAdvocate]

Aug 20, 2023 14:41:33 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 20, 2023 14:02:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i would say he is LIKELY to be the nominee, not he WILL be.  not sure what odds i would give him.  what odds would YOU give him?

Right now it seems like a sure thing, but I hope the early primaries will kick up someone who can beat him. Someone who isn’t DeSantis.

in 2016, Bush led Trump after his announcement.  Carson also led briefly.  and Cruz was less than 10 points down when he withdrew.  

are you arguing that his position is better this time?  because i am not sure that is true.

NOTE: for the record, again, i think he is LIKELY to win the primary.  i just don't think it is certain.

[billisonboard]

Aug 20, 2023 17:39:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 20, 2023 15:20:06 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

You'll aren't seeing Trump becoming America's Zelensky?

I think Trump will lead the coup the same way he lead the country. 

Which means with constant chaos, and by listening to the next person who comes through his door, until the very next person comes through the door, and then the person after that. 

And when things get scary, he’ll cram his golf clubs and boxes of top secret documents and newspaper clippings into his big ass Trump plane and fly off to one of his international resorts someplace without an extradition treaty, leaving his Proud boys and 1%ers and MAGA minions holding the bag. 

I don't see Trump having an opportunity to lead an insurrection again. I think word/action one would have him in front of a judge who would drop him into a deep dark hole. Remember last time he was still President. This time he will just be a defeated candidate.

[happyhoix]

Aug 20, 2023 17:49:56 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 20, 2023 14:41:33 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Right now it seems like a sure thing, but I hope the early primaries will kick up someone who can beat him. Someone who isn’t DeSantis.

in 2016, Bush led Trump after his announcement.  Carson also lead briefly.  and Cruz was less than 10 points down when he withdrew.  

are you arguing that his position is better this time?  because i am not sure that is true.

NOTE: for the record, again, i think he is LIKELY to win the primary.  i just don't think it is certain.

I wouldn’t say I was arguing anything. I have a proven track record of guessing wrong, when it comes to elections, so I would never claim to know how an election will turn out. 

I would say right now, with 62% approval by the republican voters and DeSantis falling rapidly, and with the rest of the pack way below DeSantis, if the primary was tomorrow, Trump would win. But the primaries aren’t tomorrow, and I have hope, mostly because a Trump second term would be unimaginable. 

[djAdvocate]

i just can't figure out what makes him attractive.
there is nothing he has said or done that makes me want him to pick up garbage for me,
let alone run the country for me and others.

[happyhoix]

Aug 20, 2023 20:14:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i just can't figure out what makes him attractive.
there is nothing he has said or done that makes me want him to pick up garbage for me,
let alone run the country for me and others.

They were showing a poll in the news this am that showed 71 percent of Trump voters trust him. Only around 60% believed friends and family, and about 40 believed their religious leaders.

When you trust a failed D level celebrity who serially cheats on his wife and repeatedly goes bankrupt you’re a cult member.

[Opti]

Aug 20, 2023 20:14:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i just can't figure out what makes him attractive.
there is nothing he has said or done that makes me want him to pick up garbage for me,
let alone run the country for me and others.

I think we have been here before. He's a whiny mercurial white rich guy and some people see that as strength simply because he is rich, white, and acts like an authoritarian. We aren't going to get it as we don't crave or want authoritarian leaders.

Its highly likely a good portion of his supporters had dads similar in action and believed the lies that they were the problem not dad. So they don't see the tantrums as a showing of weak toddlerness like we do, but anger of a righteous man which I think some were trained to believe.

This is their strong father figure they picked to lead them out of confusion of society as it is now. I don't think they have the ability to see him accurately or realize he is not strong, just a vindictive selfish person who gets his way because of his money.

[tbop77]

Aug 20, 2023 9:41:17 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 20, 2023 6:51:50 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

As long as the Mar-a-Lago megalomaniac is around, these candidates are pennies waiting for change and the debate, whether the former president is there or not, is merely a chance for them to dance for King Trump, ever hopeful he and his rabid base of MAGA minions will look on them kindly.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/sucking-up-to-donald-trump-101-a-wannabe-s-guide-for-the-republican-debate/ar-AA1fvDMI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=babc8050507c4744b98b08cc9b2165c0&ei=57

The sooner people accept that Trump is going to be the nominee and figure out how to deal with him and his rabid base, the better IMHO.  

I don't know what you expect to happen or who you think is going to calm his MAGAs down. The entire GOP field knows where they stand and have already chosen how they deal with him and his supporters. I don't see that changing. Most of them are like Mitch McConnell, hoping outside forces will take him down without their involvement.

Oh, I totally get it that the 30% of the Republican base is all in for Trump and believes every word he says.  But the rest of the normal people need to be reminded every day what Trump is all about.

How about a blitz of commercials showing the rioters hitting and bear spraying cops and a split screen with Trump saying "I love ya"
And there are so many instances like this....and I pick that one because of his fat ass sitting there letting it continue to go on while everyone was begging him....I cann't for the life of me understand how anyone can be alright with that.  

EVERY FUCKING DAY PEOPLE NEED TO BE REMINDED WHAT THIS MAN IS

[Tennesseer]

Aug 20, 2023 20:14:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i just can't figure out what makes him attractive.

there is nothing he has said or done that makes me want him to pick up garbage for me,
let alone run the country for me and others.

I posted this below several pages back. This is what makes trump attractive to his cult.

“Talented and well-practiced in every vice, a stranger to compassion or empathy, a liar and a cheat so complete in perfidy that he has elevated his dishonesty to hold it up as an ersatz moral principle, violent, so long as he can order someone else to do the dirty work, grotesque in body, graceless in action, in possession of a wounded self-regard so colossal as to smother any spark of grace, treasonous, not only to country, but to every ally he has ever had, the poisoned fruit and rankest flower of racism and contempt for women, and utterly devoid of shame for his moral and spiritual bankruptcy.

That is your leader. That is to whom you give your money. That is who you follow and laud. That is whose banner you willingly carry. Why? Because he is a mirror, not a lighthouse. You see yourselves in him. He is what you would be, if you had inherited money and could shed the last vestiges of conscience and shame.

No, I do not “respect your choices,” nor do I admire your loyalty and dedication to this miserific, demoniac vision. You have demonstrated not only a lack of civic virtue, loyalty to the Republic and to the rule of law, but a willingness to engage in violence and sedition at his slightest expressed wish. And you will never, ever admit you were wrong.

Because you see your dark, twisted, resentful dreams in him. And to renounce him is to renounce yourselves.”

~ Advocatus Peregrini

[djAdvocate]

Aug 21, 2023 6:35:47 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 20, 2023 20:14:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i just can't figure out what makes him attractive.
there is nothing he has said or done that makes me want him to pick up garbage for me,
let alone run the country for me and others.

I think we have been here before. He's a whiny mercurial white rich guy and some people see that as strength simply because he is rich, white, and acts like an authoritarian. We aren't going to get it as we don't crave or want authoritarian leaders.

Its highly likely a good portion of his supporters had dads similar in action and believed the lies that they were the problem not dad. So they don't see the tantrums as a showing of weak toddlerness like we do, but anger of a righteous man which I think some were trained to believe.

This is their strong father figure they picked to lead them out of confusion of society as it is now. I don't think they have the ability to see him accurately or realize he is not strong, just a vindictive selfish person who gets his way because of his money.

yes, we have been here before.  but the more his venality is exposed, the less i understand it's attactiveness.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 21, 2023 9:50:54 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 20, 2023 20:14:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i just can't figure out what makes him attractive.

there is nothing he has said or done that makes me want him to pick up garbage for me,
let alone run the country for me and others.

I posted this below several pages back. This is what makes trump attractive to his cult.

“Talented and well-practiced in every vice, a stranger to compassion or empathy, a liar and a cheat so complete in perfidy that he has elevated his dishonesty to hold it up as an ersatz moral principle, violent, so long as he can order someone else to do the dirty work, grotesque in body, graceless in action, in possession of a wounded self-regard so colossal as to smother any spark of grace, treasonous, not only to country, but to every ally he has ever had, the poisoned fruit and rankest flower of racism and contempt for women, and utterly devoid of shame for his moral and spiritual bankruptcy.

That is your leader. That is to whom you give your money. That is who you follow and laud. That is whose banner you willingly carry. Why? Because he is a mirror, not a lighthouse. You see yourselves in him. He is what you would be, if you had inherited money and could shed the last vestiges of conscience and shame.

No, I do not “respect your choices,” nor do I admire your loyalty and dedication to this miserific, demoniac vision. You have demonstrated not only a lack of civic virtue, loyalty to the Republic and to the rule of law, but a willingness to engage in violence and sedition at his slightest expressed wish. And you will never, ever admit you were wrong.

Because you see your dark, twisted, resentful dreams in him. And to renounce him is to renounce yourselves.”

~ Advocatus Peregrini

that is a beautiful quote, Tenn.  where did you find it?  i don't know how it could possibly be put better than that!

[Tennesseer]

Aug 23, 2023 6:55:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 21, 2023 9:50:54 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I posted this below several pages back. This is what makes trump attractive to his cult.

that is a beautiful quote, Tenn.  where did you find it?  i don't know how it could possibly be put better than that!

It describes trump and his rabid followers perfectly.

I saw the quote on Facebook. I searched the internet for the author's name but could find no entries for it. There is a poster on Facebook named Advocatus Peregrini but he/she/it did not have that entry in his posting history.

So, author unknown.

[billisonboard]

Aug 23, 2023 10:20:16 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 23, 2023 6:55:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

that is a beautiful quote, Tenn.  where did you find it?  i don't know how it could possibly be put better than that!

It describes trump and his rabid followers perfectly.

I saw the quote on Facebook. I searched the internet for the author's name but could find no entries for it. There is a poster on Facebook named Advocatus Peregrini but he/she/it did not have that entry in his posting history.

So, author unknown.

While it does contain a degree of truth, it also displays well the contempt that helps fuel much of Trump’s support.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 23, 2023 10:42:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 23, 2023 10:20:16 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It describes trump and his rabid followers perfectly.

I saw the quote on Facebook. I searched the internet for the author's name but could find no entries for it. There is a poster on Facebook named Advocatus Peregrini but he/she/it did not have that entry in his posting history.

So, author unknown.

While it does contain a degree of truth, it also displays well the contempt that helps fuel much of Trump’s support.

Facts are facts, Bill. Why sugar coat facts.

[billisonboard]

Aug 23, 2023 11:03:32 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 23, 2023 10:42:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

While it does contain a degree of truth, it also displays well the contempt that helps fuel much of Trump’s support.

Facts are facts, Bill. Why sugar coat facts.

I am an outcomes based thinker. In this situation, the outcome I desire is to not have Trump return to the Presidency. If getting there takes a little sugar, I say pour a little.

[tallguy]

Aug 23, 2023 10:42:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 23, 2023 10:20:16 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It describes trump and his rabid followers perfectly.

I saw the quote on Facebook. I searched the internet for the author's name but could find no entries for it. There is a poster on Facebook named Advocatus Peregrini but he/she/it did not have that entry in his posting history.

So, author unknown.

While it does contain a degree of truth, it also displays well the contempt that helps fuel much of Trump’s support.

More than a degree of truth, to be sure.

And given that there is nobody around currently to launch a screed about the mention, it recalls the spirit of the Nate White piece from a few years ago.   

[Tennesseer]

Opinion

I can't ask these 10 questions at tonight's GOP debate. But someone should.
Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum may need some inspiration — and I'm happy to oblige.

Nine Republican presidential candidates have qualified for the first GOP primary debate on Wednesday evening in Milwaukee. However, with former President Donald Trump distracted by four criminal indictments and boycotting the Fox News-hosted debate, only eight candidates are expected to take the stage at the Fiserv Forum: Ron DeSantis, Vivek Ramaswamy, Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, Chris Christie, Asa Hutchinson and Doug Burgum.

Fox anchors Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum will be asking the questions, aided by pre-taped questions from the conservative group Young America’s Foundation.

It’s safe to assume there will be few curveballs or tough challenges from either Rupert Murdoch’s employees or the bunch of right-wing kids.

So here are my questions for all eight candidates, my questions for all of them except Pence; and then an individual question for each one.

For all of the GOP candidates:
All of you had to sign a pledge saying you’ll back the GOP nominee in order to participate in this debate tonight. If Donald Trump is convicted and sentenced to prison ahead of November 2024, but is still the official GOP nominee, will you still support him? Even if he runs from a prison cell?

Rest of article here: I can't ask these 10 questions at tonight's GOP debate. But someone should.

[billisonboard]

Aug 23, 2023 11:50:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Aug 23, 2023 10:42:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

While it does contain a degree of truth, it also displays well the contempt that helps fuel much of Trump’s support.

More than a degree of truth, to be sure.

And given that there is nobody around currently to launch a screed about the mention, it recalls the spirit of the Nate White piece from a few years ago.   

I disagree re: "the spirit of". The Nate White piece was targeted at Trump, this piece is targeted at Trump supporters.

[tallguy]

Aug 23, 2023 12:15:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 23, 2023 11:50:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

More than a degree of truth, to be sure.

And given that there is nobody around currently to launch a screed about the mention, it recalls the spirit of the Nate White piece from a few years ago.   

I disagree re: "the spirit of". The Nate White piece was targeted at Trump, this piece is targeted at Trump supporters.

Ultimately, perhaps, but the first paragraph description is ALL Trump, and in much the same vein.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 23, 2023 11:56:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Opinion

I can't ask these 10 questions at tonight's GOP debate. But someone should.
Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum may need some inspiration — and I'm happy to oblige.

Nine Republican presidential candidates have qualified for the first GOP primary debate on Wednesday evening in Milwaukee. However, with former President Donald Trump distracted by four criminal indictments and boycotting the Fox News-hosted debate, only eight candidates are expected to take the stage at the Fiserv Forum: Ron DeSantis, Vivek Ramaswamy, Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, Chris Christie, Asa Hutchinson and Doug Burgum.

Fox anchors Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum will be asking the questions, aided by pre-taped questions from the conservative group Young America’s Foundation.

It’s safe to assume there will be few curveballs or tough challenges from either Rupert Murdoch’s employees or the bunch of right-wing kids.

So here are my questions for all eight candidates, my questions for all of them except Pence; and then an individual question for each one.

For all of the GOP candidates:
All of you had to sign a pledge saying you’ll back the GOP nominee in order to participate in this debate tonight. If Donald Trump is convicted and sentenced to prison ahead of November 2024, but is still the official GOP nominee, will you still support him? Even if he runs from a prison cell?

Rest of article here: I can't ask these 10 questions at tonight's GOP debate. But someone should.

i would rather they sign a pledge of NON-support, and promise not to pardon him.

[laterbloomer]

Aug 23, 2023 10:42:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 23, 2023 10:20:16 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It describes trump and his rabid followers perfectly.

I saw the quote on Facebook. I searched the internet for the author's name but could find no entries for it. There is a poster on Facebook named Advocatus Peregrini but he/she/it did not have that entry in his posting history.

So, author unknown.

While it does contain a degree of truth, it also displays well the contempt that helps fuel much of Trump’s support.

The contempt is the effect not the cause of the support. That is the grain of truth that the article is stating.

[billisonboard]

Aug 23, 2023 21:37:27 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Aug 23, 2023 10:42:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

While it does contain a degree of truth, it also displays well the contempt that helps fuel much of Trump’s support.

The contempt is the effect not the cause of the support. That is the grain of truth that the article is stating.

Which came first? How about another example of the contempt shown to lesser educated Americans.

In 2021, the ratio of CEO-to-typical-worker compensation was 399-to-1 under the realized measure of CEO pay; that is up from 366-to-1 in 2020 and a big increase from 20-to-1 in 1965 and 59-to-1 in 1989. link

Contempt started long before Trump, he just tapped into the resentment.

[andi9899]

www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8FVqwor/

[tallguy]

Aug 23, 2023 22:30:49 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 23, 2023 21:37:27 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

The contempt is the effect not the cause of the support. That is the grain of truth that the article is stating.

Which came first? How about another example of the contempt shown to lesser educated Americans.

In 2021, the ratio of CEO-to-typical-worker compensation was 399-to-1 under the realized measure of CEO pay; that is up from 366-to-1 in 2020 and a big increase from 20-to-1 in 1965 and 59-to-1 in 1989. link

Contempt started long before Trump, he just tapped into the resentment.

Interesting to note, then, that the anger and resentment fueling Republicans' support of Trump could pretty easily be considered the result of Republican policies.  Increased CEO compensation,  the slashing of tax rates that made it far more advantageous for them to set their pay much higher than previously, lowered regulations allowing more and more exploitation of the lower classes, the refusal to entertain raising wages or enabling expanded medical care, the reduction of all kinds of benefits for the "non-wealthy", shall we say...?  

[djAdvocate]

Aug 23, 2023 11:50:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Aug 23, 2023 10:42:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

While it does contain a degree of truth, it also displays well the contempt that helps fuel much of Trump’s support.

More than a degree of truth, to be sure.

And given that there is nobody around currently to launch a screed about the mention, it recalls the spirit of the Nate White piece from a few years ago.   

i don't get WHY we should fail to tell the truth because people are offended by it.  it seems to me that the public needs to hear the truth, always, no matter how much it hurts.  this is particularly true with politics.  

is there anything untrue about the quote Tenn posted?