Brittney Griner

[ripvanwinkle]

I'm mixed on this. I'm glad a she's is back home but but they still have another American citizen in jail. Would the administration have made the deal with the Russians if she was just a plain straight white female and not a black lesbian basketball player?

There are many Americans in jails around the world and we don't hear about them. I'm sure behind the scenes the State dept is working for their release but Grainer was found .702 grams of cannabis oil in her luggage. Did she think it was no big deal? And besides I'm a American! They will just release me. News flash. The Constitution and Bill of Rghts does not save you in foreign countries.

I think the State Dept folded their hand too soon.  

[djAdvocate]

Dec 8, 2022 17:34:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dec 8, 2022 17:22:40 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Could have offered them something else. Not one of the most wanted men on earth. You know he's just going to continue doing what he always did...dealing in mass destruction.

But if they did offer someone else (I'm assuming this wasn't their first pick) and Russia said no, you would have picked no deal?

of course.  otherwise, this would have been done months ago.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 9, 2022 1:38:02 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I'm mixed on this. I'm glad a she's is back home but but they still have another American citizen in jail. Would the administration have made the deal with the Russians if she was just a plain straight white female and not a black lesbian basketball player?

yes

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 9, 2022 1:38:02 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I'm mixed on this. I'm glad a she's is back home but but they still have another American citizen in jail. Would the administration have made the deal with the Russians if she was just a plain straight white female and not a black lesbian basketball player?

There are many Americans in jails around the world and we don't hear about them. I'm sure behind the scenes the State dept is working for their release but Grainer was found .702 grams of cannabis oil in her luggage. Did she think it was no big deal? And besides I'm an American! They will just release me. News flash. The Constitution and Bill of Rghts does not save you in foreign countries.

I think the State Dept folded their hand too soon.  

More nonsense. There are countless examples of ghe US doing the same thing for straight white males. You really do need to be better informed

[Opti]

Really weird to think that being black and a lesbian was a help in this.    Being a basketball player maybe, but yikes is this the identity politics crap some RW media is selling right now?

[djAdvocate]

Dec 9, 2022 7:18:46 GMT -5 Opti said:

Really weird to think that being black and a lesbian was a help in this.    Being a basketball player maybe, but yikes is this the identity politics crap some RW media is selling right now?

exactly.  the IDEA that minorities would get preferential treatment in this situation is, candidly, ludicrous.

[scgal]

Dec 9, 2022 7:33:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:18:46 GMT -5 Opti said:

Really weird to think that being black and a lesbian was a help in this.    Being a basketball player maybe, but yikes is this the identity politics crap some RW media is selling right now?

exactly.  the IDEA that minorities would get preferential treatment in this situation is, candidly, ludicrous.

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 9, 2022 7:43:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:33:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

exactly.  the IDEA that minorities would get preferential treatment in this situation is, candidly, ludicrous.

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

i think that is absurd, scgal.  sorry, i just do.  i am not going to articulate why.  i believe it as fervently as you believe otherwise, so there is no point.

here is my claim: she got no preferential treatment from the Biden administration because she was black or gay.  i stand by that.

[scgal]

Dec 9, 2022 7:46:25 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:43:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

i think that is absurd, scgal .  sorry, i just do.  i am not going to articulate why.  i believe it as fervently as you believe otherwise, so there is no point.

here is my claim: she got no preferential treatment from the Biden administration because she was black or gay.  i stand by that.

Ah I remember Obamas mouth piece don't let a serious crisis go to waste. Straight out of his idol's playbook. 

[djAdvocate]

Dec 9, 2022 7:54:15 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:46:25 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think that is absurd, scgal .  sorry, i just do.  i am not going to articulate why.  i believe it as fervently as you believe otherwise, so there is no point.

here is my claim: she got no preferential treatment from the Biden administration because she was black or gay.  i stand by that.

Ah I remember Obamas mouth piece don't let a serious crisis go to waste. Straight out of his idol's playbook. 

i am not sure what you are talking about.  i don't regard any of this as a "serious crisis".  i don't know what Obama has to do with it.  and i don't see the connection to Biden.

[Opti]

Dec 9, 2022 7:43:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:33:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

exactly.  the IDEA that minorities would get preferential treatment in this situation is, candidly, ludicrous.

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

No, they did not. Helping one individual leave Russian custody is not something that translates to helping the black or the gay community. Very few will ever be in Russia, let along get arrested there. The only community that might feel better is athletes that play in leagues in foreign countries. 

[pulmonarymd]

These conservatives forgot about us swapping our hostages in Venezuela for 2 Maduro relatives. Was that done to appease a special interest group too? They seemed to have no problem with that. That’s right, they were oil executives

[raeoflyte]

Dec 9, 2022 7:43:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:33:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

exactly.  the IDEA that minorities would get preferential treatment in this situation is, candidly, ludicrous.

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The US brought home a white American woman from Britain after she accidentally killed a 19 year old and refused extradition for trial. Are you opposed to that?

But most importantly it wouldn't have hurt YOU to leave her there another year. At least be honest with yourself. From what youve posted your playbook says that others suffering is their own fault and this is no different. And you want those people to feel every ounce of it.

[raeoflyte]

Dec 9, 2022 1:38:02 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I'm mixed on this. I'm glad a she's is back home but but they still have another American citizen in jail. Would the administration have made the deal with the Russians if she was just a plain straight white female and not a black lesbian basketball player?

There are many Americans in jails around the world and we don't hear about them. I'm sure behind the scenes the State dept is working for their release but Grainer was found .702 grams of cannabis oil in her luggage. Did she think it was no big deal? And besides I'm a American! They will just release me. News flash. The Constitution and Bill of Rghts does not save you in foreign countries.

I think the State Dept folded their hand too soon.  

I knew I should be worried when you liked my previous post. For the record I was asking the question- incredulous - that anyone would think it's better to leave a black, gay woman in a penal colony in a country that openly hates everything she is.

I can't imagine what she has gone through. It sickens me to hear people be so crass about another human beings suffering. Over possibly a vape cartridge. I've made mistakes before. I accidentally had a Swiss army knife in my carry on once. I certainly didn't mean to, but it was in a pocket I never used and didn't know it was there.

Of course it would have been preferable to get them both out, but even the dishonorably discharged marines family said it was better to get 1 out than none.

[raeoflyte]

Dec 9, 2022 8:51:03 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:43:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The US brought home a white American woman from Britain after she accidentally killed a 19 year old and refused extradition for trial. Are you opposed to that?

But most importantly it wouldn't have hurt YOU to leave her there another year. At least be honest with yourself. From what youve posted your playbook says that others suffering is their own fault and this is no different. And you want those people to feel every ounce of it.

And who would it have softened up? You think Russia cares at all what happens to anyone in their penal colonies? You think they care about another year without their arms dealer? I don't. I revise my previous statement- I can imagine what she's gone through and it makes me ill. I don't understand why you can't.

Another year would have just made it less likely to get her home at all.

[daisylu]

I can't wrap my head around how any woman in the US does not feel oppressed.  Stockholm syndrome?  

[imawino]

It seems all the same sorts who celebrated Trump's "victory" in bringing home a dead white guy are super pissed that Biden brought home a live black woman.  Go figure.

[busymom]

Dec 9, 2022 10:21:13 GMT -5 daisylu said:

I can't wrap my head around how any woman in the US does not feel oppressed.  Stockholm syndrome?  

   I don't know how any woman can NOT feel oppressed in this country.  I've been told I was too young for a management position, that as a young married woman I "might" get pregnant, therefore I shouldn't move up in the company.  Then, you're a mom, so you've got conflicting priorities.  The only time corporate America got it right was when my Mom was on the decline, then I had to quit my job to help her, because my employer at that time wouldn't give me even one day off a month to help her, even without pay, so yes, it was a "family first" decision for me.  If you're a woman in this country, you're treated as a second-class citizen.  Oh, and I can't even count the number of times that I, as a woman, was expected to make coffee for my male coworkers/supervisors, even though I'd stopped drinking coffee years ago, and was told to clean the lunchroom.  How many men who post here ever got that as an expectation as part of their job?  I'll wait...     

[busymom]

Back on topic:  I'm happy Brittney was released.  A Russian prison must be hell on earth.  

[raeoflyte]

I didn't believe in male privilege until I saw the change in how I was treated just by saying "I need to discuss with my husband" vs "I need to discuss with my partner ". No one ever questioned the former, but would push like crazy when I said the latter.

When dh transitioned his boss took him out to dinner, said I treat men differently, gave dh a raise, and suddenly dh was in the inside circle with the bosses ear. Transitioning didn't make him a better employee.

All of that is as a white presenting people. I don't understand how people can ignore/disregard minorities verbal reports of discrimination and almost more damning ignore the data proving repeated discrimination. But if they don't see it/believe it must not be true.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 9, 2022 1:38:02 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I'm mixed on this. I'm glad a she's is back home but but they still have another American citizen in jail. Would the administration have made the deal with the Russians if she was just a plain straight white female and not a black lesbian basketball player?

There are many Americans in jails around the world and we don't hear about them. I'm sure behind the scenes the State dept is working for their release but Grainer was found .702 grams of cannabis oil in her luggage. Did she think it was no big deal? And besides I'm a American! They will just release me. News flash. The Constitution and Bill of Rghts does not save you in foreign countries.

I think the State Dept folded their hand too soon.  

A couple of articles for you to read, Rip which are connected to what I highlighted in your above post. I strongly suggest you read it all because for one thing in the first linked article you have fallen right into Putin's hands.

The first one. The other one will be posted shortly after.

Brittney Griner was a pawn in Putin’s relentless crusade to divide America

With the news of Brittney Griner’s release from Russian imprisonment Thursday, armchair analysts and experts at using their thumbs on social media are declaring that Russian President Vladimir Putin won this round of the ongoing U.S.-Russia discord. Putin himself may certainly think he won; if nothing else, he punished the mind and body of a woman who embodies every identity he wants to suppress and eliminate from Russian life — openly gay and lesbian couples, casual or medicinal users of cannabis, women who threaten chauvinism, and Black people who challenge notions of white supremacy. And Putin gained back a prolific arms dealer, who already served the bulk of his sentence, as part of the prisoner swap that led to Griner’s release.

But in his efforts to secure Griner’s release, President Joe Biden sent the message that the United States values something more than scoring political points through controlling and confining people’s bodies: honoring people as individuals and fighting for the rule of law on the world stage.

At the start of his war with Ukraine, and by extension his intensified conflict with the United States, Putin found in one person the intersections of American identity he needed: a Black, married lesbian woman who uses marijuana and has a large social media following to use as the latest pawn in Russia’s long-standing strategy of wielding America’s diversity to hurt us.

Putin extracted nearly a year of Griner’s life while creating social conflict in America, as people questioned the Biden administration’s efforts and whether a white male sports star, like football player Tom Brady, would ever be imprisoned this long. Others suggested Griner "did the crime" so she should "do the time," comments that ignore unjust legal enforcement and echo the war on drugs rhetoric so commonly used against Black people in America.

Deepening America’s racial divides is part of a long-standing Soviet playbook. As historian Kimberly St. Julian-Varnon, whose work focuses on Black identity in the Eastern bloc, explains, “There was heavy Soviet interest in American race relations… they were looking at Jim Crow America and they were producing propaganda showing how racist the United States was.” The “interest in African Americans as an oppressed people” and “also as oppressed workers” allowed the Soviet Union to sell its anti-capitalism narrative domestically, creating another layer to convince the Russian public they should consider America an enemy.

The Soviets also courted Black community leaders, intellectuals and entertainers from America. In the 1930s, when half of the Black American population was out of work, writer Langston Hughes traveled to Russia; as the Red Scare was starting, world famous singer Paul Robeson made a speech in 1949 telling Black people not to take up arms against Russia; and intellectuals from W.E.B. DuBois to Angela Davis cited the influence of communist revolutions on their work.

“Russia, though a culturally and physically distant and far less traveled destination, offered opportunities not readily available to them elsewhere,” writes historian Robert Fikes. “Black sojourners nonetheless felt acceptance and appreciated their stay in Russia which they saw as a distant refuge from the daily humiliations routinely faced in the United States.” Griner was following that same journey when she spent her off-season playing for Russian teams for nearly 10 times what she is paid in the U.S.

The Russian state is not wrong about American injustices toward Black people, but it's far from altruistic when using these issues for propaganda. We saw this clearly when Putin weaponized his knowledge about America’s class and racial divisions in the 2016 presidential campaign. What we now call the Russia Investigation revealed that Russian government operatives created thousands of fake personas online to expand and deepen debates about Black Lives Matter and white supremacy. In a strategy he calls “virtual hatred,” scholar William Aceves says Putin’s purpose “was to manipulate public opinion on racial issues and disrupt the political process.”

Prisoner returns are fraught negotiations conducted at the highest levels and often don’t materialize in a release. Former Marine Paul Whelan has been imprisoned in Russia for four years. This summer, the Biden administration tried to arrange a two-for-two swap to include Whelan, but ultimately the Russians dictated that only Griner’s release was up for discussion. Putin had lost credibility on the sports diplomacy front by holding hostage a star basketball player; at a time when Russia needs whatever good will it can get, getting rid of Griner and gaining back a military asset is the better deal for Russia.

With online commentary swirling about whether Griner’s exchange was “worth it,” Putin is still pushing his tactic of leveraging America’s record of racism to his advantage, attempting to pit white veterans against Black athletes.

Fortunately, it appears Whelan’s family is not falling for that trap, telling media, “We all really understand that Russia is trying to create dissension [by] not engaging on Paul and only engaging on Brittney on purpose.”

Whether Putin or Biden won here is perhaps a matter of pure perspective. But while Putin reduces people by their identities, Biden pushes for the soul of our nation, making it clear that political prisoners are people first — and that people deserve the support of their governments.

Brittney Griner was a pawn in Putin’s relentless crusade to divide America

[scgal]

Dec 9, 2022 10:46:20 GMT -5 busymom said:

Dec 9, 2022 10:21:13 GMT -5 daisylu said:

I can't wrap my head around how any woman in the US does not feel oppressed.  Stockholm syndrome?  

   I don't know how any woman can NOT feel oppressed in this country.  I've been told I was too young for a management position, that as a young married woman I "might" get pregnant, therefore I shouldn't move up in the company.  Then, you're a mom, so you've got conflicting priorities.  The only time corporate America got it right was when my Mom was on the decline, then I had to quit my job to help her, because my employer at that time wouldn't give me even one day off a month to help her, even without pay, so yes, it was a "family first" decision for me.  If you're a woman in this country, you're treated as a second-class citizen.  Oh, and I can't even count the number of times that I, as a woman, was expected to make coffee for my male coworkers/supervisors, even though I'd stopped drinking coffee years ago, and was told to clean the lunchroom.  How many men who post here ever got that as an expectation as part of their job?  I'll wait...     

Probably because I as in for me I never expierienced any of it especially in the work place. I recieved raises I recieved promotions over men, I'm paid the same as my male collegues in fact i'm paid higher than 2 of them. I never had a problem with banking. Outside of being physically attacked I never was the victim of any of those things. 

[scgal]

Dec 9, 2022 8:24:24 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

These conservatives forgot about us swapping our hostages in Venezuela for 2 Maduro relatives. Was that done to appease a special interest group too? They seemed to have no problem with that. That’s right, they were oil executives

Did the oil execs break any laws? From what I read no. 

[Tennesseer]

Dec 9, 2022 1:38:02 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I'm mixed on this. I'm glad a she's is back home but but they still have another American citizen in jail. Would the administration have made the deal with the Russians if she was just a plain straight white female and not a black lesbian basketball player?

There are many Americans in jails around the world and we don't hear about them. I'm sure behind the scenes the State dept is working for their release but Grainer was found .702 grams of cannabis oil in her luggage. Did she think it was no big deal? And besides I'm a American! They will just release me. News flash. The Constitution and Bill of Rghts does not save you in foreign countries.

I think the State Dept folded their hand too soon.  

Now the second article. Not about Brittnety Griner per se but about the attention missing white women nationally received versus women of color. Applies to your highlighted comment again and your bias against women of color or who are not mainstream in your head.

What We Know (And Don't Know) About 'Missing White Women Syndrome'

In recent weeks, the stories of missing black and Latina girls sparked an outcry on Twitter and Facebook because there seemed to be a flurry of new cases that were being under-reported by local news in the Washington D.C. area.

The uproar prompted black lawmakers in Congress to formally ask the Justice Department to do more to investigate what seemed like a spike in new incidents of missing black girls. (As my colleague Ian Stewart reported, the number of missing persons cases in the city hadn't gone up, but the police department had more actively publicized the cases on social media, which gave many people the false impression that there was suddenly more of them.)

The sense that these cases were being ignored seemed like another example of "missing white woman syndrome" — a phrase coined by Gwen Ifill, the late PBS anchor. It refers to the mainstream media's seeming fascination with covering missing or endangered white women — like Laci Peterson or Natalee Holloway — and its seeming disinterest in cases involving missing people of color.

So what do we know about race and missing persons coverage? Not a whole lot, according to Zach Sommers, a sociologist at Northwestern University who studies crime. He said there's a pretty sizable body of research that shows that white people are more likely than people of color to appear in news coverage as victims of violent crime, but relatively little when it comes to missing persons cases.

It's to that end that Sommers undertook a study that looked at every missing person case covered by four online media outlets in 2013. He wanted a mix of national and local outlets and news sources for cities from different regions with contrasting demographic profiles. He analyzed coverage in the Star Tribune of Minneapolis, the Chicago Tribune and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and included CNN.com, which has an outsized influence on the national conversation. Sommers then cross-referenced their coverage with the FBI's national database of missing persons, which he said maps relatively well with the country's broader demographics.

What Sommers found was that white women were much more likely to be the subject of news coverage relative to their proportions among missing persons, and women in general, were significantly more likely than men to be covered. Though white women make up about a third of the national population, "half of the articles in the data set are just about white females alone," Sommers said.

But he also found that the coverage of missing white women was different in intensity — outlets were more likely to repeatedly report on particular stories of missing white women, which then drove up the total number of articles about white women. "By choosing to disproportionately highlight the experiences of whites and women, these four news websites are implicitly — or perhaps explicitly — intimating that the cases of those individuals matter more," Sommers wrote.

As an example of how coverage intensity can skew the number of articles about missing persons, Sommers pointed to the much-covered case of three women in Cleveland who were held prisoner by a man in his home's basement for 10 years. In 2013, about one in four articles in the four outlets Sommer analyzed that were about missing Latinas were about the Cleveland case, specifically. Sommer wondered if race increased the amount of media attention paid to that case as well. "There were three women involved — two of them were white and one of them was Latina," he said. "Thinking about how the coverage would have differed if all three of them were women of color...we probably would have seen some very different numbers."

There are a few things that are likely happening here. Coverage decisions are informed, consciously and less so, by a newsroom's racial makeup, and most major American newsrooms remain disproportionately white. But Sommers speculates that there's also the economic calculus of news coverage to consider: in skewing this type of coverage toward white women, news outlets might be deciding that missing white women are worth more in terms of eyeballs and ad revenue.

There are some important caveats to the FBI data that Sommers used. The Bureau's breakdown of missing persons cases by race is roughly 60 percent white, 35 percent black, and four percent other — but it doesn't disaggregate Latinos from white people, which suggests that the total number of missing white people could be inflated in the data. The FBI data also doesn't break down race and gender combinations, making it difficult to determine, for example, how many black women might be among missing people relative to white women.

But there's one other big detail Sommers said we don't know about missing persons coverage: as intuitive as seems, there's little data to support the notion that media exposure helps resolve such cases. But Sommers said equitable coverage matters even if it's of as-yet-unproven investigative value — media attention shapes how and to whom people extend their sympathies.

"I think ... [conceding] that the people who are most cognitively easy for us to accept as victims are girls and women is problematic on its own," Sommers said. "Then we start to think about race in conjunction with that, then the issues start to multiply even further from there."

What We Know (And Don't Know) About 'Missing White Women Syndrome'

You should also read the linked article below to learn more about Missing White Women Syndrome.

The Long American History of “Missing White Woman Syndrome”

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 9, 2022 12:24:57 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 8:24:24 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

These conservatives forgot about us swapping our hostages in Venezuela for 2 Maduro relatives. Was that done to appease a special interest group too? They seemed to have no problem with that. That’s right, they were oil executives

Did the oil execs break any laws? From what I read no. 

It isn't like she killed someone. She had a small amount of drugs in her possession, on a hash pipe. Being sent to a Gulag and being subjected to the conditions there is an appropriate punishment that she should suffer in your opinion, and we should make no effort at getting them out. She was being held hostage by Russia just as much as those oil executives.

But, this answer is unsurprising, given your lack of empathy of anyone in a bad spot if they weren't a perfect victim.

Venezuela was a dangerous place for Americans given our issues with their government. Maybe they should have thought about that before putting themselves in a position to be held hostage in the first place. Then we wouldn't have had to make the deal we did to get them out. If you think what I wrote is true, then you would at least be consistent.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 9, 2022 1:38:02 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I'm mixed on this. I'm glad a she's is back home but but they still have another American citizen in jail. Would the administration have made the deal with the Russians if she was just a plain straight white female and not a black lesbian basketball player?

There are many Americans in jails around the world and we don't hear about them. I'm sure behind the scenes the State dept is working for their release but Grainer was found .702 grams of cannabis oil in her luggage. Did she think it was no big deal? And besides I'm a American! They will just release me. News flash. The Constitution and Bill of Rghts does not save you in foreign countries.

I think the State Dept folded their hand too soon.  

Regarding your higlighted comments:

You nor I were directly or even indirectly involved with the negotiations to free Brittney Griner or Paul Whelan.  We know zero about the negotiations.  It's possible Putin/Russia wanted more from us to release Paul Whelan.  Putin/Russia might even have put on the negotiation table that the U.S. stop shipping weapons and funding Ukraine after the invasion of their country by Putin/Russia.  I don't know.  But say Putin/Russia did ask the U.S. to stop helping Ukraine for Paul Whelan:  would it be worth it to bring one American home while thousands of Ukrainians die at the hand of Russia?

If I were at the negotiantion table I would have told Putin/Russia we would not stop helping Ukraine.  How about you?  What would you do if that was actually put on the negotiation table (stop helping Ukraine for Paul Whelan)?

[scgal]

Dec 9, 2022 12:38:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 9, 2022 12:24:57 GMT -5 scgal said:

Did the oil execs break any laws? From what I read no. 

It isn't like she killed someone. She had a small amount of drugs in her possession, on a hash pipe. Being sent to a Gulag and being subjected to the conditions there is an appropriate punishment that she should suffer in your opinion, and we should make no effort at getting them out. She was being held hostage by Russia just as much as those oil executives.

But, this answer is unsurprising, given your lack of empathy of anyone in a bad spot if they weren't a perfect victim.

Venezuela was a dangerous place for Americans given our issues with their government. Maybe they should have thought about that before putting themselves in a position to be held hostage in the first place. Then we wouldn't have had to make the deal we did to get them out. If you think what I wrote is true, then you would at least be consistent.

I'm not saying the punishment fit the crime. I'm sure she was being used as a tool. You can't compare her to someone who didn't break any laws either. 

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 9, 2022 12:55:23 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 12:38:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

It isn't like she killed someone. She had a small amount of drugs in her possession, on a hash pipe. Being sent to a Gulag and being subjected to the conditions there is an appropriate punishment that she should suffer in your opinion, and we should make no effort at getting them out. She was being held hostage by Russia just as much as those oil executives.

But, this answer is unsurprising, given your lack of empathy of anyone in a bad spot if they weren't a perfect victim.

Venezuela was a dangerous place for Americans given our issues with their government. Maybe they should have thought about that before putting themselves in a position to be held hostage in the first place. Then we wouldn't have had to make the deal we did to get them out. If you think what I wrote is true, then you would at least be consistent.

I'm not saying the punishment fit the crime. I'm sure she was being used as a tool. You can't compare her to someone who didn't break any laws either. 

No, you just think she should have to suffer another year in prison before we got her out. What is a year in someone's life?

Do you think someone taken hostage in a place known to be hostile to Americans deserves some of the blame? Or should we try to get them out as soon as we can?

[raeoflyte]

Dec 9, 2022 12:55:23 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 12:38:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

It isn't like she killed someone. She had a small amount of drugs in her possession, on a hash pipe. Being sent to a Gulag and being subjected to the conditions there is an appropriate punishment that she should suffer in your opinion, and we should make no effort at getting them out. She was being held hostage by Russia just as much as those oil executives.

But, this answer is unsurprising, given your lack of empathy of anyone in a bad spot if they weren't a perfect victim.

Venezuela was a dangerous place for Americans given our issues with their government. Maybe they should have thought about that before putting themselves in a position to be held hostage in the first place. Then we wouldn't have had to make the deal we did to get them out. If you think what I wrote is true, then you would at least be consistent.

I'm not saying the punishment fit the crime. I'm sure she was being used as a tool. You can't compare her to someone who didn't break any laws either. 

What about the American woman who did kill someone but we removed her before charged and refused extradition? She was tried (remotely) but jail time was a joke - we had already refused to return her.

[scgal]

Dec 9, 2022 13:18:50 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 9, 2022 12:55:23 GMT -5 scgal said:

I'm not saying the punishment fit the crime. I'm sure she was being used as a tool. You can't compare her to someone who didn't break any laws either. 

No, you just think she should have to suffer another year in prison before we got her out. What is a year in someone's life?

Do you think someone taken hostage in a place known to be hostile to Americans deserves some of the blame? Or should we try to get them out as soon as we can?

No she was already sentenced obviously this administration failed in the early on before sentencing. Since she was sentenced and thru negoations knowing what they wanted they could have used time as a leverage she was alreaded sentenced she should be grateful for anything earlier than the 9 years. To me 30 days would for a sentence would have been severe enough