Brittney Griner

[Artemis Windsong]

I've re-examined even more after djadvocate post.

The teams owner must have a lot of pull in that country.

[djAdvocate]

wow.  shit.  occasionally i think of dropping out here.
i figure nobody listens or cares any more.
thanks for helping me doubt that Artemis.

[raeoflyte]

apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-freed-viktor-bout-swap-us-russia-ee51f5c14f35dc4d4cf21224a8e44eaa

Really good news. I hope she recovers as fully as possible and quickly from the ordeal.

Unfortunate that Russia wouldn't release Paul Whelan as well especially considering the price they required. 2 people with small scale drug charges compared to the actual crime lord we released.

[hurley1980]

Dec 8, 2022 9:34:14 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-freed-viktor-bout-swap-us-russia-ee51f5c14f35dc4d4cf21224a8e44eaa

Really good news. I hope she recovers as fully as possible and quickly from the ordeal.

Unfortunate that Russia wouldn't release Paul Whelan as well especially considering the price they required. 2 people with small scale drug charges compared to the actual crime lord we released.

Yes it is good news!

I'm curious to know peoples thoughts on Paul Whelan on these boards.  I didn't really know anything about him before, so I did some reading up, and he seems like a pretty sketchy guy!  Not that he deserves to be in a Russian prison for 16 years, but something about him just doesn't seem that innocent.  At least not innocent like brining a vape pen to the airport....

[djAdvocate]

another victory for Biden.  i am sure it won't be painted that way.

[pulmonarymd]

Biden was in a no win situation. he will be criticized for only getting one of them out. He will be criticized because he gave up a bad guy. If he didn't do it he would be criticized because he didn't get anyone out. Bad situation with no good option. The only truly happy people are family and fans of Greiner. 

[imawino]

Dec 8, 2022 9:34:14 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-freed-viktor-bout-swap-us-russia-ee51f5c14f35dc4d4cf21224a8e44eaa

Really good news. I hope she recovers as fully as possible and quickly from the ordeal.

Unfortunate that Russia wouldn't release Paul Whelan as well especially considering the price they required. 2 people with small scale drug charges compared to the actual crime lord we released.

Paul Whelan was convicted of espionage, not a drug charge.  

[weltschmerz]

Traded for the Russian Merchant of Death!   That's not right.

[raeoflyte]

Dec 8, 2022 16:21:23 GMT -5 imawino said:

Dec 8, 2022 9:34:14 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

apnews.com/article/brittney-griner-freed-viktor-bout-swap-us-russia-ee51f5c14f35dc4d4cf21224a8e44eaa

Really good news. I hope she recovers as fully as possible and quickly from the ordeal.

Unfortunate that Russia wouldn't release Paul Whelan as well especially considering the price they required. 2 people with small scale drug charges compared to the actual crime lord we released.

Paul Whelan was convicted of espionage, not a drug charge.  

I see that now. I don't know if I have him confused or if I had a bad article at the beginning.

[raeoflyte]

Dec 8, 2022 16:24:37 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Traded for the Russian Merchant of Death!   That's not right.

It would have been better to leave her? Deal or no deal. That was the option.

[weltschmerz]

This guy sold weapons to warlords and the Taliban. He was one of the Most Wanted men on earth. Traded for a basketball player?
Why does this feel so wrong?

[weltschmerz]

It's like trading a cheap plastic watch you won at the county fair by spraying water into a clown's mouth for a Patek Phillipe.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 8, 2022 17:10:58 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dec 8, 2022 16:24:37 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Traded for the Russian Merchant of Death!   That's not right.

It would have been better to leave her? Deal or no deal. That was the option.

Could have offered them something else. Not one of the most wanted men on earth. You know he's just going to continue doing what he always did...dealing in mass destruction.

[hurley1980]

Dec 8, 2022 17:22:40 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 8, 2022 17:10:58 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

It would have been better to leave her? Deal or no deal. That was the option.

Could have offered them something else. Not one of the most wanted men on earth. You know he's just going to continue doing what he always did...dealing in mass destruction.

Bout has been in jail for like 15 years! I doubt he has many contacts left to go right back to doing what he was doing.  Also, he was set to be released in about 5 years.  So we get Griner back, and he gets released 5 years early.  

He was going to be out eventually anyway, at least we got something for this trade.  

[raeoflyte]

Dec 8, 2022 17:22:40 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 8, 2022 17:10:58 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

It would have been better to leave her? Deal or no deal. That was the option.

Could have offered them something else. Not one of the most wanted men on earth. You know he's just going to continue doing what he always did...dealing in mass destruction.

But if they did offer someone else (I'm assuming this wasn't their first pick) and Russia said no, you would have picked no deal?

[hurley1980]

Dec 8, 2022 17:34:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dec 8, 2022 17:22:40 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Could have offered them something else. Not one of the most wanted men on earth. You know he's just going to continue doing what he always did...dealing in mass destruction.

But if they did offer someone else (I'm assuming this wasn't their first pick) and Russia said no, you would have picked no deal?

This is one of the reasons why Whelan is still in jail.  It was Bout for Griner or nothing.  We didn't really have anything else to offer Russia, and because of that, only Griner got to come home.  

[imawino]

Dec 8, 2022 17:32:57 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Dec 8, 2022 17:22:40 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Could have offered them something else. Not one of the most wanted men on earth. You know he's just going to continue doing what he always did...dealing in mass destruction.

Bout has been in jail for like 15 years! I doubt he has many contacts left to go right back to doing what he was doing.  Also, he was set to be released in about 5 years.  So we get Griner back, and he gets released 5 years early.  

He was going to be out eventually anyway, at least we got something for this trade.  

Exactly.  He's been detained for many years now - if he has still been keeping up contacts and running some arms dealing operation from in prison, that's a whole other conversation.  But it would appear that he is long out of the game and not a worry for us anymore.  I'm certain plenty of worse people have popped up to fill the any holes his absence created.  

[Tiny]

Dec 8, 2022 17:22:40 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Could have offered them something else. Not one of the most wanted men on earth. You know he's just going to continue doing what he always did...dealing in mass destruction.

I'm not saying it was ok to trade Bout for Griner... but,

www.nytimes.com/2022/12/08/world/europe/viktor-bout-brittney-griner.html

More than a decade later, Mr. Bout, 55, has been freed, despite serving less than half of his 25-year prison sentence. He was exchanged on Thursday for the American basketball star Brittney Griner, who had been imprisoned in Russia for 10 months.

It sucks that he only served half of sentence but he's been out of commission for at least 15 years. He's also 55 years old now. And I'm guessing he hasn't really kept up with any of his old friends or contacts. I'm guessing many of his old friends/contacts are either dead or really old and no long so influential. Will the current people (who he may not know or trust) who have arms/machinery of war trust or even want to talk to him (or his "people")? Will the current people (who he may not know or trust) want to BUY arms/machinery of war from someone they do not trust or know?

I'm guessing his original business isn't necessarily going to welcome him back with open arms and give him a position of "power" with in - if it's even still a business  (if it is I'm guessing it might be more interested in doing legitimate shipping/trading rather than 'illegal' deals) .

The world has changed tremendously in 15 years... he might not be relevant or have the skills/contacts to be relevant.
At least I'm hoping he wasn't running his shipping business and arms dealing from an American prison for the last 15 years.
I hope he goes back to Russia and spends the rest of his life as a has been with no real purpose - and living in poverty (or something close to it).   You know sitting around every day drunk and bitter telling anyone and everyone who dares to come within earshot of "his glory days and how he got the short end of the stick".     


That said, this isn't the first time the US has "traded" a prisoner(s) with another country to get an American released.

theweek.com/foreign-affairs/1015598/americas-hostage-history

I was a clueless teenager - but I still remember the Iran Hostage crisis. There's been lots of other hostage swaps...

[weltschmerz]

Poverty? Those people have money and gold stashed everywhere, in other countries and off shore accounts. They know they can get nailed anytime, and make provisions for after their release.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 8, 2022 17:34:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dec 8, 2022 17:22:40 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Could have offered them something else. Not one of the most wanted men on earth. You know he's just going to continue doing what he always did...dealing in mass destruction.

But if they did offer someone else (I'm assuming this wasn't their first pick) and Russia said no, you would have picked no deal?

Not sure.  I'm think he'll provide weapons to kill my people in Ukraine. He has access to surface to air missiles. He sells to the highest bidder.
I really don't think he's out of the game. 
People like that don't quietly retire.

[hurley1980]

Dec 8, 2022 18:33:27 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 8, 2022 17:34:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

But if they did offer someone else (I'm assuming this wasn't their first pick) and Russia said no, you would have picked no deal?

Not sure.  I'm think he'll provide weapons to kill my people in Ukraine. He has access to surface to air missiles. He sells to the highest bidder.
I really don't think he's out of the game. 
People like that don't quietly retire.

I don't think it will be that simple for him.  He has spent the last 15 years in an enemy prison!  Its not like he's going to get out, go home, and everyone will just trust him again.  He's been compromised. 

And I don't think he has access to jack shit anymore!

[weltschmerz]

Dec 8, 2022 18:50:17 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Dec 8, 2022 18:33:27 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Not sure.  I'm think he'll provide weapons to kill my people in Ukraine. He has access to surface to air missiles. He sells to the highest bidder.
I really don't think he's out of the game. 
People like that don't quietly retire.

I don't think it will be that simple for him.  He has spent the last 15 years in an enemy prison!  Its not like he's going to get out, go home, and everyone will just trust him again.  He's been compromised. 

And I don't think he has access to jack shit anymore!

He knows where to get jack shit.  And he has money...in Zurich, in the Caribbean, etc.

Back in business!

[pulmonarymd]

See what I mean. Criticism due to who we traded. No good option.

So I guess we should have just left her there

[hurley1980]

Dec 8, 2022 19:11:44 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 8, 2022 18:50:17 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

I don't think it will be that simple for him.  He has spent the last 15 years in an enemy prison!  Its not like he's going to get out, go home, and everyone will just trust him again.  He's been compromised. 

And I don't think he has access to jack shit anymore!

He knows where to get jack shit.  And he has money...in Zurich, in the Caribbean, etc.

Back in business!

Possibly.  But I'm not ready to panic yet.  I am happy Griner is home, and while I don't have a lot of respect for Whalen, I hope he gets home too.  

Russia is already a problem, one geriatric man who has been locked up for 15 years, isn't going to up their game a whole lot.  I just don't see this as a big threat.

But I respect your concern.  And I'm looking forward to visiting your beautiful country this May! No hard feelings

[weltschmerz]

Dec 8, 2022 19:19:34 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Dec 8, 2022 19:11:44 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

He knows where to get jack shit.  And he has money...in Zurich, in the Caribbean, etc.

Back in business!

Possibly.  But I'm not ready to panic yet.  I am happy Griner is home, and while I don't have a lot of respect for Whalen, I hope he gets home too.  

Russia is already a problem, one geriatric man who has been locked up for 15 years, isn't going to up their game a whole lot.  I just don't see this as a big threat.

But I respect your concern.  And I'm looking forward to visiting your beautiful country this May! No hard feelings

In May? Cool! Where are you going?

[hurley1980]

Dec 8, 2022 19:31:29 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 8, 2022 19:19:34 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Possibly.  But I'm not ready to panic yet.  I am happy Griner is home, and while I don't have a lot of respect for Whalen, I hope he gets home too.  

Russia is already a problem, one geriatric man who has been locked up for 15 years, isn't going to up their game a whole lot.  I just don't see this as a big threat.

But I respect your concern.  And I'm looking forward to visiting your beautiful country this May! No hard feelings

In May? Cool! Where are you going?

Its a cruise that leaves SF and goes to Astoria Oregon, Seattle, Vancouver, and Victoria!  I am very excited.  I grew up in Olympia, a few hours from the Canada border, but never got the chance to travel there. This will be my first of hopefully many trips to Canada! And I will be in Victoria for my birthday!

[weltschmerz]

Dec 8, 2022 19:35:22 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Dec 8, 2022 19:31:29 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

In May? Cool! Where are you going?

Its a cruise that leaves SF and goes to Astoria Oregon, Seattle, Vancouver, and Victoria!  I am very excited.  I grew up in Olympia, a few hours from the Canada border, but never got the chance to travel there. This will be my first of hopefully many trips to Canada! And I will be in Victoria for my birthday!

Well, have fun! Victoria is stunning!

[Tennesseer]

Let Brittney Griner serve as a cautionary example.  Be careful what you pack when traveling overseas.  What may be legal in the States may not be legal in the country(ies) of your destinations.

[tallguy]

Dec 8, 2022 19:50:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 8, 2022 19:35:22 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Its a cruise that leaves SF and goes to Astoria Oregon, Seattle, Vancouver, and Victoria!  I am very excited.  I grew up in Olympia, a few hours from the Canada border, but never got the chance to travel there. This will be my first of hopefully many trips to Canada! And I will be in Victoria for my birthday!

Well, have fun! Victoria is stunning!

Yes, and Vancouver is a great city.  I've also been to Harrison Hot Springs but not much else yet.  Will be at Banff and Jasper in June.  GF says the Canadian Rockies may be the most beautiful place she has ever been.  Can't wait!

[happyhoix]

Dec 8, 2022 15:19:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

another victory for Biden.  i am sure it won't be painted that way.

Marge Taylor Greene wants to impeach Biden over it.

Of course she tries to impeach him fairly frequently. It’s about the only congressional work she actually does.