How to Fix Public Education

[TheOtherMe]

Jul 27, 2022 15:59:58 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

From what I hear dealing with the political stuff is what makes teachers quit.

This was the reason my sister retired and her co-teacher went the next year for the same reason.  It was the first year the co-teacher was eligible to retire.

[saveinla]

California is turning to Community schools -

Humanitas’ strength is rooted in its 11-year stature as a “community school” — a model that could take hold at many more California K-12 campuses in the coming years. California is making a mega-bet — with an unprecedented $4.1-billion investment over seven years — that converting hundreds of campuses in high-poverty neighborhoods into schools like Humanitas offers the best chance to save children’s pandemic-damaged education and address entrenched inequities.

This plan dramatically expands the traditional definition of a public school, overhauling campuses into neighborhood centers that seek to comprehensively meet the needs of students. Healthcare, mental health services, tutoring, pediatric care and other social supports converge on campus.

www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-20/the-promise-of-community-schools?utm_id=61794&sfmc_id=1572742

[geenamercile]

Jul 27, 2022 15:59:58 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

I think we need to separate kids into how easy they are to teach. Respectful children who listen and try from harder to educate children. Mainstreaming special needs kids only if they are able to pay attention. Kids with bad parents who demand the little angel doesn't have to behave need their kids separate.

I love that special needs kids get educated but if they are disruptive and violent, they need to be in small classes with specialist and aids. Special needs like mobility or vision or hearing can be mainstreamed and learning disabilities that don't cause problems. 

Those not good in classrooms can be in tiny class sizes like 8 kids with a teacher and an aid and held to the same academic standards. They would get individual education plans whatever was best for them.

From what I hear dealing with the political stuff is what makes teachers quit.

I am going to not focus on the concept of them ¨not being good¨ because I do not think you mean that as insulting or as inflammatory as I want to react to it as.


I do want to point out this is already being done based on a child´s need they are placed in the least restrictive environment for their disability, and yes some of these environments are smaller classrooms with aids.  The level of support on average goes, general education classroom with 1 teacher and accommodation, collaborative classroom with teacher and either a sped teacher/sped para, sped classroom where the ratio is 10 students to 1 teacher and perhaps paras or extra teachers, outside placement (either a district run alternative school or private alternative school), home bound/home based instruction.       

[teen persuasion]

Jul 27, 2022 15:59:58 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

I think we need to separate kids into how easy they are to teach. Respectful children who listen and try from harder to educate children. Mainstreaming special needs kids only if they are able to pay attention. Kids with bad parents who demand the little angel doesn't have to behave need their kids separate.

I love that special needs kids get educated but if they are disruptive and violent, they need to be in small classes with specialist and aids. Special needs like mobility or vision or hearing can be mainstreamed and learning disabilities that don't cause problems. 

Those not good in classrooms can be in tiny class sizes like 8 kids with a teacher and an aid and held to the same academic standards. They would get individual education plans whatever was best for them.

From what I hear dealing with the political stuff is what makes teachers quit.

Internal politics, and paperwork.  Documentation, record keeping, state requirements... and individual education plans generate tons more paperwork, unfortunately.  So does dealing with incident reports for students sent to intervention, and tracking "behavior" points (don't remember the alphabet soup acronym for that, but too many strikes per day and they lost privileges), which need to be communicated to other teachers.

DH did work with those separated out students, in an 8:1:1 setting.  He often worked w/o an aide, because it was so hard to hire and keep aides at basically minimum wage.  Every time he was assigned a new aide, he had more work to train them (if they were new) and monitor them (some were quite young, a bit too close in age to the students) for example if friendliness got a bit too unprofessional to maintain control (self-control was often the students' most lacking trait), and DH had to see if they had compatible approaches to classroom management - or how much autonomy he could give the aide.  Poor aides tended to get pushed out, or flaked out and failed to show up.  Good aides might be on an upward trajectory to better positions.  So it could be a revolving door, where some students really needed stability.

Switching thoughts - previous mention of homework as conditioning for workers to work afterhours set off a lightbulb in my brain - that is the teacher work paradigm to a T: work a full day on site, then lug stacks of never-ending busywork/paperwork home. Coincidence/revenge/misery loves company?

[raeoflyte]

As far as homework goes, I've tried convincing my kids that an A+ isn't the end goal of school. That B effort is just fine for a lot of life and coupled with the ability to test well they'll still walk away with an A most of the time. So leave an assignment at good enough and go play. It's something I wish I had understood younger.

[stillmovingforward]

Maybe a better title for this thread would have been: how to support and enhance children's public education?

Because that's what, in my mind, needs to be a focus.

[nidena]

Just saw this about Iowa: Des Moines offers teachers $50k incentive to stay

Des Moines Public Schools is offering a $50,000 incentive to teachers, nurses and administrators who are nearing retirement to stay with the district through the 2022-2023 school year.

At least 58 have taken the offer according to records obtained by Axios.

Details: Recipients must be 60 years old by June 30, 2023 and have a minimum of 15 years at DMPS are eligible for the incentive.

They can also buy into the district's health insurance plan up to the age of 65.

[TheOtherMe]

The state of Iowa gave teachers a $1000 bonus during the last school year.  It was a thank you for all they did during Covid.  I think it was great but no mention was made of health care workers or any other essential worker.

[pulmonarymd]

According to some on here, what we did was nothing special

[djAdvocate]

Aug 2, 2022 12:46:23 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

According to some on here, what we did was nothing special

yeah, because any average person would risk their lives for a bunch of insolent maskless adults.  sure.

[TheOtherMe]

Aug 2, 2022 12:46:23 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

According to some on here, what we did was nothing special

Good old Covid Kim never acted like there was a health pandemic.  She was over it very quickly.  Her words "profits over people".

Sadly I don't think all of the deaths have cost her any sleep.

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 2, 2022 15:47:10 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Aug 2, 2022 12:46:23 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

According to some on here, what we did was nothing special

Good old Covid Kim never acted like there was a health pandemic.  She was over it very quickly.  Her words "profits over people".

Sadly I don't think all of the deaths have cost her any sleep.

Wish I could say that

[TheOtherMe]

I know and I know the medical profession in Iowa doesn't feel like her.  

She will tell anyone who will listen she is pro-life and we must do anything to protect a fetus.  It was okay to let people die a horrible death because she didn't care.  Some of the families at the meat packing plants are now suing the plants and the State because nobody cared about them and whether they were sick or not.  Meanwhile, management was taking bets on how many would "drop" today.  

[raeoflyte]

Tell me again how great private schools are?

share.newsbreak.com/1kmuah78

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Aug 11, 2022 11:12:36 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Tell me again how great private schools are?

share.newsbreak.com/1kmuah78

The comment section. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Aug 11, 2022 11:12:36 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Tell me again how great private schools are?

share.newsbreak.com/1kmuah78

You really can't lump all private schools together any more than you can lump all public.  They have to all be evaluated on their own merits and how they can serve your child. 

[raeoflyte]

Aug 11, 2022 12:01:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aug 11, 2022 11:12:36 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Tell me again how great private schools are?

share.newsbreak.com/1kmuah78

You really can't lump all private schools together any more than you can lump all public.  They have to all be evaluated on their own merits and how they can serve your child. 

Sure, but statistically private schools discriminate and when we're discussing giving tax payer money to them its a point that is way too quickly glossed over. We argue that doesn't happen anymore, but it does. This is one time that the school didn't even try to pretend it isn't blatant discrimination.

[bean29]

Aug 11, 2022 12:17:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Aug 11, 2022 12:01:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

You really can't lump all private schools together any more than you can lump all public.  They have to all be evaluated on their own merits and how they can serve your child. 

Sure, but statistically private schools discriminate and when we're discussing giving tax payer money to them its a point that is way too quickly glossed over. We argue that doesn't happen anymore, but it does. This is one time that the school didn't even try to pretend it isn't blatant discrimination.

Hasn't the SC said we have to give Church (Parochial) Schools public funds, but if they want to discriminate against those that don't follow their version of the Bible, they get to discriminate?

[giramomma]

Aug 11, 2022 12:17:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Aug 11, 2022 12:01:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

You really can't lump all private schools together any more than you can lump all public.  They have to all be evaluated on their own merits and how they can serve your child. 

Sure, but statistically private schools discriminate and when we're discussing giving tax payer money to them its a point that is way too quickly glossed over. We argue that doesn't happen anymore, but it does. This is one time that the school didn't even try to pretend it isn't blatant discrimination.

But it's still a local choice.

When school choice/private school vouchers came to my city, our parochial church/school said "no, we will not participate in that program."

I'm not suggesting that it's OK that private schools discriminate or that it's OK that they should take money.

It just means, that I am already doing 2-3 things at one time, literally, much of the time.  And I really just cannot do 3-4 things at the same time.

All I can do is take care of what I can control and maybe influence.

I can't control what policies happen at the local, state, and federal level in other states. We don't have that kind of power. We certainly don't have the money required to be able to wield that kind of power.

[raeoflyte]

Aug 11, 2022 14:32:46 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Aug 11, 2022 12:17:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Sure, but statistically private schools discriminate and when we're discussing giving tax payer money to them its a point that is way too quickly glossed over. We argue that doesn't happen anymore, but it does. This is one time that the school didn't even try to pretend it isn't blatant discrimination.

But it's still a local choice.

When school choice/private school vouchers came to my city, our parochial church/school said "no, we will not participate in that program."

I'm not suggesting that it's OK that private schools discriminate or that it's OK that they should take money.

It just means, that I am already doing 2-3 things at one time, literally, much of the time.  And I really just cannot do 3-4 things at the same time.

All I can do is take care of what I can control and maybe influence.

I can't control what policies happen at the local, state, and federal level in other states. We don't have that kind of power. We certainly don't have the money required to be able to wield that kind of power.

I think thats what I'm doing? I'm not supporting private schools my and I'm talking about why.

When something doesn't affect us personally it's easier not to see when something is problematic. But a version of this story pops up every few years, and it's probably the easiest showcase of the overall issues. Almost no one would outright say a child was being denied acceptance because of race or disability. It would be due to test scores, ability, family availability, etc. But gender/sexual orientation is still fair game to just call out.

I know I can't control it, but maybe someone who would have voted for vouchers thinking it's all a personal decision/or doing what's best for their kids might change their mind when they see the other side of it.

[zibazinski]

One way to help would be to have a longer school day for those who need remedial help. Then it’s just them getting the help they need to catch up. Not for special needs or free daycare but for those who actually could catch up with some extra help that the teacher can’t provide during the regular school day. You could break it down into subjects. Reading, math, whatever.

[zibazinski]

We used to have summer school but the only students who get that now are special needs because they’re entitled to it.

[stillmovingforward]

Our school gives summer school to all kids who need remedial help. But, our area also has a very long history of strongly supporting our public school district. Who, in return, do a fabulous job of educating our kids and stewarding the money they receive for doing this service.

[raeoflyte]

We still have summer school here too and not just for "entitled kids".

[tskeeter]

Jul 26, 2022 13:42:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jul 26, 2022 4:40:01 GMT -5 finnime said:

The degree of elitism and entitlement expressed in this thread leaves me breathless.

At core, the attitude seems to be that there's something wrong with people who are poor. Proof that there's something wrong is that they are poor, not like me. Poor people don't deserve food (WIC or SNAP), or adequate schools for their kids, or to have kids at all. Poor kids are disruptive in school. They interfere with the education of the "regular" kids and divert teachers and other resources. Involved, deserving, not-poor parents should have a (subsidized) choice of schools so their kids can get good educations. Other kids should not have been born into poor and undeserving families.

Do I have that right? Because that belief system is sick.

You are well off, due in part to your hard work but also due to a huge amount of pure luck. The luck allowed you to benefit from your hard work. YOu were healthy enough and well enough fed to take advantage of the schooling offered to you. You were able to work, and privileged enough to get jobs that rewarded your efforts and background. And you were lucky enough to avoid the disasters that can suck a person or family down. You did not suffer a ruinous illness or accident. You did not work for a company that Enron bought and sucked dry leaving you with nothing. There are thousands of other unrecoverable misfortunes that you did not suffer. Problems you encountered had solutions. You have been lucky.

I myself believe in public schools and schooling. I have been privileged enough in my life to choose places to live that offered excellent public schools for my off-the-charts kids. I wish that all children had enough food and stability in their lives to take advantage of very good schools, and that very good schools were available to them freely. I have lived in high-tax, high-service areas.

The best predictor of a child's success is a parent's success.     

I think your observation is valid.  But it begs the question of why your observation seems to be true.  Is it genetics?  Are smart kids the product of smart parents?  Is it environment?  Does competition between siblings and peers for things such as good grades improve performance?  Do parents expectations that their children will be successful encourage children to make choices and exhibit behaviors that make them relatively more successful than the “average” child, thus meeting parental, family, or community expectations?  Does being taught that your choices and behavior influence the outcomes you achieve vs. being taught that you are a victim of luck and what you do has no impact on the outcomes you experience have an impact on “success”?  Are there other factors that contribute to people becoming “successful” other than the parent’s success?

[giramomma]

So a public school board in my state voted to ban teachers from displaying the gay pride flag as well as using preferred pronouns.

The Kettle Moraine School Board voted unanimously Tuesday to keep a code of conduct in place that the superintendent recently interpreted as forbidding district employees from displaying political or religious messages, including pride flags, and Black Lives Matter and We Back the Badge signs. Staff also may not say in emails what their preferred pronouns are.

www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-school-board-votes-in-favor-of-pride-flag-preferred-pronoun-ban/

Who needs DEI, right? And gender is political, apparently. Or religious. Or both?

Think of the slippery slope that this could start folks on. Only hetro couples can talk about their husbands or wives.

[billisonboard]

Aug 17, 2022 17:18:34 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So a public school board in my state voted to ban teachers from displaying the gay pride flag as well as using preferred pronouns.

The Kettle Moraine School Board voted unanimously Tuesday to keep a code of conduct in place that the superintendent recently interpreted as forbidding district employees from displaying political or religious messages, including pride flags, and Black Lives Matter and We Back the Badge signs. Staff also may not say in emails what their preferred pronouns are.

www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-school-board-votes-in-favor-of-pride-flag-preferred-pronoun-ban/

Who needs DEI, right?

So a little bio in the signature block: Who is this guy. He is a dedicated teacher and all his students are important to him.

[teen persuasion]

Aug 17, 2022 17:18:34 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So a public school board in my state voted to ban teachers from displaying the gay pride flag as well as using preferred pronouns.

The Kettle Moraine School Board voted unanimously Tuesday to keep a code of conduct in place that the superintendent recently interpreted as forbidding district employees from displaying political or religious messages, including pride flags, and Black Lives Matter and We Back the Badge signs. Staff also may not say in emails what their preferred pronouns are.

www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-school-board-votes-in-favor-of-pride-flag-preferred-pronoun-ban/

Who needs DEI, right? And gender is political, apparently. Or religious. Or both?

Think of the slippery slope that this could start folks on. Only hetro couples can talk about their husbands or wives.

Way to read the room - the majority of people who spoke at the meeting were opposed, cut the meeting short although more wanted to extend it, 13k people signed an online petition (started by students) opposing it, and the board votes unanimously to keep it! 

[giramomma]

Anyone following the Columbus teacher strike?

Thoughts?

The news outlets put the latest rejected version of the contract out on the web. I don't have time to read through.