Retired. Now what?

[minnesotapaintlady]

If you don't really have much in savings, taking it early might make sense I haven't analyzed those situations much since I don't have a pension and it's all savings. With savings, it seems more prudent to draw on tax deferred first. It will reduce RMDs and increase the SS annuity which is more favorably taxed than drawing from retirement accounts. 

[pulmonarymd]

People underestimate their life expectancy. Although life expectancy is about 78, if you make it to 70, the average life expectancy is 83. If you make 80, it is 88. I see many people in their 80s who are scrimping by, and complaining about their out of pocket medical costs. SS increases by 8%/year guaranteed, unless Congress changes it. There is no other investment that is able to make that claim. Individual circumstances obviously play into it, but if you are in average or better health in your mid 60s, you will collect more if you wait.

[minnesotapaintlady]

There is a calculator on the SS website for life expectancy based on current age. 

www.ssa.gov/OACT/population/longevity.html

Obviously, personal health and family history needs to be taken into consideration as well.  In my family dying in the 70's is the exception for women...although one aunt did die at 71 of cancer and my paternal grandmother died in her 50's, but she smoked and drank a massive amount.  Most make it into their 80's or 90's, so I really need to plan on that happening. 

[nidena]

My longevity references are all over the map...

Mom -- died one month before turning 66, her dad died at 67, her mom was 80; oldest sibling is 75, other sibling died at 64.
Dad -- still kicking at 75, his dad died at 80, his mom at 90; oldest sibling died at 80, all others are still alive (and older than Dad).

I think 70 is a high likelihood for me.

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 4, 2022 10:27:04 GMT -5 nidena said:

My longevity references are all over the map...

Mom -- died one month before turning 66, her dad died at 67, her mom was 80; oldest sibling is 75, other sibling died at 64.
Dad -- still kicking at 75, his dad died at 80, his mom at 90; oldest sibling died at 80, all others are still alive (and older than Dad).

I think 70 is a high likelihood for me.

You can actually do quite a bit better than a wild ass guess. There are longevity calculators on the internet that will give you a better estimate based on your health and a few other criteria. We have a few actuaries on the board who could probably give you even more accurate sites. There is something called survivors bias- the longer you live, the longer you are likely to live. Basing life expectancy on family history is fraught with all kinds of errors.

Whenever I do one of those calculators I get to my late 80s. I am reasonably healthy, but in no way am I a fitness fanatic or without some chronic medical conditions. Based on my experience as a physician, most people underestimate how long they are going to live.


ETA: Just did another one. I make it to 91 1/2. It asks simple easy to ask questions about your habits and health.

[NoNamePerson]

Jul 4, 2022 10:27:04 GMT -5 nidena said:

My longevity references are all over the map...

Mom -- died one month before turning 66, her dad died at 67, her mom was 80; oldest sibling is 75, other sibling died at 64.
Dad -- still kicking at 75, his dad died at 80, his mom at 90; oldest sibling died at 80, all others are still alive (and older than Dad).

I think 70 is a high likelihood for me.

My father was dead at 21 (WWII) and mother at 73. I have zero longevity history of either side so maybe ignorance is BLISS? 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 4, 2022 10:38:24 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Jul 4, 2022 10:27:04 GMT -5 nidena said:

My longevity references are all over the map...

Mom -- died one month before turning 66, her dad died at 67, her mom was 80; oldest sibling is 75, other sibling died at 64.
Dad -- still kicking at 75, his dad died at 80, his mom at 90; oldest sibling died at 80, all others are still alive (and older than Dad).

I think 70 is a high likelihood for me.

My father was dead at 21 (WWII) and mother at 73. I have zero longevity history of either side so maybe ignorance is BLISS? 

My parents are both still alive.  I looked at grandparents, great grandparents and aunts and uncles.

[nidena]

Jul 4, 2022 10:36:14 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jul 4, 2022 10:27:04 GMT -5 nidena said:

My longevity references are all over the map...

Mom -- died one month before turning 66, her dad died at 67, her mom was 80; oldest sibling is 75, other sibling died at 64.
Dad -- still kicking at 75, his dad died at 80, his mom at 90; oldest sibling died at 80, all others are still alive (and older than Dad).

I think 70 is a high likelihood for me.

You can actually do quite a bit better than a wild ass guess. There are longevity calculators on the internet that will give you a better estimate based on your health and a few other criteria. We have a few actuaries on the board who could probably give you even more accurate sites. There is something called survivors bias- the longer you live, the longer you are likely to live. Basing life expectancy on family history is fraught with all kinds of errors.

Whenever I do one of those calculators I get to my late 80s. I am reasonably healthy, but in no way am I a fitness fanatic or without some chronic medical conditions. Based on my experience as a physician, most people underestimate how long they are going to live.


ETA: Just did another one. I make it to 91 1/2. It asks simple easy to ask questions about your habits and health.

Cool beans.  I did the one on SSA.gov and it showed 85.4

[NoNamePerson]

Jul 4, 2022 10:42:35 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 4, 2022 10:38:24 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

My father was dead at 21 (WWII) and mother at 73. I have zero longevity history of either side so maybe ignorance is BLISS? 

My parents are both still alive.  I looked at grandparents, great grandparents and aunts and uncles.

I never knew anyone on either side. I did track down my fathers family about 30 yrs ago but not much info there and as far as my mother is concerned hell, I'm not even sure of her real name    (long story) so no aunts, uncles, siblings, cousins, grandparents, etc. for me to draw from. But I'm OK with that   

[giramomma]

Eh with longevity calculators.

My 35 year old neighbor should be alive.

My dad should have been dead before 70.  My dad made it to 70, but there was no way he was making it 83 with cancer all over his body. Turns out, his body couldn't hold out anymore at 76.

My dad lived at least 10 years longer than his parents. My mom has lived at least a decade longer than her mom, but she has not passed her dad's age of death.

 We'll see what I do.

[pulmonarymd]

They are not perfect. But they give you an idea. People in this board like to plan. Too many people make assumptions of their life expectancy without good data. They give averages like other guidance does. But they are at least based on reliable information. Shit happens. You can fall and hit your head, get hit by a car, be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Running out of money when you are old sucks. People who do so have few, options, and most are unpalatable. Getting an idea of your life expectancy is another data point that can help us make decisions. Making a decision about finances when you retire at 65 can have major impacts when you are 85. Trying to make the best decision you can is what this board is all about.

[Deleted]

Jul 4, 2022 16:25:25 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Running out of money when you are old sucks. People who do so have few, options, and most are unpalatable. 

Fear of being old and poor has driven me most of my adult life.  No sad stories among my immediate family members but the stories of others are all around us. 

My maternal grandfather lived to 95.  He was overweight and smoked a pipe all his life and outlived 2 wives.  The docs wanted to operate on his stomach cancer.  He had enough marbles left to say no.  HIS mother died at 93, a week after she went into LTC.  Up to then she'd stayed in her house although I know she had significant help from family, especially her daughter.  Great-Grandma was apple dumpling-shaped, and probably never had a mammogram or a pap smear and never knew her cholesterol or a1c.  Dad died last year at 90 and Mom died at 85 after refusing treatment for a recurrence of breast cancer.

I'm 69 and have no real issues except leaky heart valves, which my cardiologist says is one of those "Stuff happens" things.  I get sad that I can no longer bicycle or run up steep hills and I'm done with triathlons.  Then I try to count my blessings. It's been stable for a year so that's good.

So, it could go either way but I just re-ran the Monte Carlo simulation form my brokerage site (which includes accounts at other places) and even with this market drop my chance of not outliving my savings if I need LTC has gone from 99% last time I ran to it 98%.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I just figure if I'm going to have to guess how long I'll live, I'm better off guessing 90 and living to 70 than guessing 70 and living to 90.  If I die before I expected, oh well.  I'm dead.  I don't know that I'll really care about not maximizing my SS benefit at that point. 

I've just started studying all this "old people" stuff recently so like hearing all the different viewpoints.  Still mostly focused on the paying for college stage at this point. 

[Deleted]

I checked out a couple of sites and they wanted family history which I don't have other than mother died mid-70's of something after suffering agonizing pain for decades from something. She said her mother had cancer of some kind at some point and, after surgery, was sent home to die, but don't know if that was actual cause of death. The one site I found that didn't require family history said maybe mid-80's for me - I'm 74 now. It's all a crap shoot I guess. I've got my annual mammo scheduled for July and I'll have to go through the paperwork and questions about family history again. I get it, but that doesn't make it any less difficult to explain year after year that my family was effed up and I don't know anything about them and listen again to the explanation about the role genetics plays in the odds my boobs have cancer.

[giramomma]

Well, we save like we're going to live to 90.

I can start working part time at 55/56, as long as the markets recover somewhat in the next 8-9 years. So, I think we've done a few things right and have been responsible enough.

We have some flexibility so that if we want to do a little spending, like some bigger travel to make some memories, we can also do that and not worry about how DH is going to be able to retire.

With a reminder every single day that I'm lucky to be upright (my neighbor across the street)  and a genetic mutation for cancer, I'm not going be all like "Well of course I'm going to live to 95!"

I'm content enough with just staying the course and continuing on what we have always done.

I think sometimes as the planners we are, we forget that we can actually have enough.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 4, 2022 18:19:15 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Well, we save like we're going to live to 90.

I can start working part time at 55/56, as long as the markets recover somewhat in the next 8-9 years. So, I think we've done a few things right and have been responsible enough.

We have some flexibility so that if we want to do a little spending, like some bigger travel to make some memories, we can also do that and not worry about how DH is going to be able to retire.

With a reminder every single day that I'm lucky to be upright (my neighbor across the street)  and a genetic mutation for cancer, I'm not going be all like "Well of course I'm going to live to 95!"

I'm content enough with just staying the course and continuing on what we have always done.

I think sometimes as the planners we are, we forget that we can actually have enough.

Well, yes.  Save as if you're going to live until 90 too.  I was just looking specifically at SS.  Live until 70, better to take early.  Live until 90 (actually just 79) better to take later.

It's not so much about wanting "more".  Just trying to do the most with what I have. 

[Ava]

I have no problem keeping myself entertained, even though Im not always productive if left to my own devices.

I do have to say, I wish I had your problem 

[nidena]

Jul 4, 2022 10:08:12 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

If you don't really have much in savings, taking it early might make sense I haven't analyzed those situations much since I don't have a pension and it's all savings. With savings, it seems more prudent to draw on tax deferred first. It will reduce RMDs and increase the SS annuity which is more favorably taxed than drawing from retirement accounts. 

Currently, my pension and disability total $3800ish.  The COL raises are not "set and forget" by the govt...which is why they're in the news every fall...(link for history of adjustments).

My current monthly expenses run around $2000ish but I have a tendency to make large purchases every few months so they're really $3800ish.

Eventually, I will have no more need to buy any furniture (desk, check! sleeper chair, check! desk chair, check!) but I know that I will always spend all that I bring in.

The house will be paid off in 348 more payments; the car in 52 more; so, 2051 and 2026 respectively.  And 2046 is when I will be 70.  I would love to have the house paid off before I start receiving social security, be it in 2038 or later.  With my mortgage payment being just over $600, it's not an impossible goal.  And the car should last AT LEAST another 15-20 years: it's a Honda and I take good care of it.

With my income and outgo, this is why I'm not in any hurry to a job just to have a job.

Determining when to get social security is more about offsetting any increase in my own spending (aka lifestyle creep) than true *need* and doing so for as long as possible.

[tskeeter]

Jul 4, 2022 15:55:03 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Eh with longevity calculators.

My 35 year old neighbor should be alive.

My dad should have been dead before 70.  My dad made it to 70, but there was no way he was making it 83 with cancer all over his body. Turns out, his body couldn't hold out anymore at 76.

My dad lived at least 10 years longer than his parents. My mom has lived at least a decade longer than her mom, but she has not passed her dad's age of death.

 We'll see what I do.

According to DW’s Doc, we should expect to live 10 years longer than our parents.

[nidena]

Jul 11, 2022 16:53:57 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jul 4, 2022 15:55:03 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Eh with longevity calculators.

My 35 year old neighbor should be alive.

My dad should have been dead before 70.  My dad made it to 70, but there was no way he was making it 83 with cancer all over his body. Turns out, his body couldn't hold out anymore at 76.

My dad lived at least 10 years longer than his parents. My mom has lived at least a decade longer than her mom, but she has not passed her dad's age of death.

 We'll see what I do.

According to DW’s Doc, we should expect to live 10 years longer than our parents.

That would be hard to guage if one dies at 65 and one is still alive at 76.  Do they mean 10 years longer than our shortest or longest living parent?

[CCL]

Maybe average the two?

[TheOtherMe]

That means I will be over 100 and I do not want to do that.

[CCL]

Jul 11, 2022 16:53:57 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jul 4, 2022 15:55:03 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Eh with longevity calculators.

My 35 year old neighbor should be alive.

My dad should have been dead before 70.  My dad made it to 70, but there was no way he was making it 83 with cancer all over his body. Turns out, his body couldn't hold out anymore at 76.

My dad lived at least 10 years longer than his parents. My mom has lived at least a decade longer than her mom, but she has not passed her dad's age of death.

 We'll see what I do.

According to DW’s Doc, we should expect to live 10 years longer than our parents.

We used to think we'd live as long as our parents and grandparents, maybe a few years longer. Then our siblings started dying, all in their 60s. Now we don't know what to think.

[haapai]

Jul 11, 2022 20:24:48 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

That means I will be over 100 and I do not want to do that.

Suck it up and plan!  

Both of my grandmothers lived to be over 100 and they both had parents or other relatives that had been similarly hit with the longevity stick.  Because they planned well, and took good care of themselves, they both lived remarkably well until the last three years of their lives.  The difficulty of their final years and months should not be how we judge their lives. 

[laterbloomer]

Jul 11, 2022 20:24:48 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

That means I will be over 100 and I do not want to do that.

Why?

[azucena]

Likely because she saw both her parents deteriorate in their late 80s, early 90s. And she doesn't have dependents to look out for her like they did. I expect her DN will step up in some way.

[TheOtherMe]

Jul 13, 2022 7:16:36 GMT -5 azucena said:

Likely because she saw both her parents deteriorate in their late 80s, early 90s. And she doesn't have dependents to look out for her like they did. I expect her DN will step up in some way.

Exactly.  I have no children, etc. so no one I can count on to help me.  

I watched my mother suffer a lot for the last 5 years of her life.  Some of it she brought on herself at the beginning because she refused to her doctor.  She preferred the drama of the ER.  She usually wanted them to hospitalize her and they didn't.  I think she was in more physical pain than anyone realized for a long time.  

If I get dementia, I would hope the people I have selected to make decisions can admit to themselves that I have dementia and get me proper care instead of letting me languish alone in an apartment with no medical care.  

I do not want to live like that and like probably everyone else, I do not want to live in a nursing home.  Because I have no children, that is probably where I will end up.  I will not do well in that setting.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2022 18:44:16 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do not want to live like that and like probably everyone else, I do not want to live in a nursing home.  Because I have no children, that is probably where I will end up.  I will not do well in that setting.

Dad died in a nursing home at 90, 18 months after a stroke. My siblings WERE nearby but really, he could not be taken care of by family without seriously burning them out. He couldn't move from the bed to a wheel chair, couldn't get to the bathroom by himself and was losing his abilities to handle technology. My SIL was a retired nurse and felt so bad that she couldn't take him in. All of us knew it was out of the question.

My paternal grandmother and one great-grandmother on Mom's side lasted less than a week after entering LTC (although they'd had significant support from family while living in their homes). That's how I wanna go.

[TheOtherMe]

Jul 13, 2022 19:14:12 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 13, 2022 18:44:16 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do not want to live like that and like probably everyone else, I do not want to live in a nursing home.  Because I have no children, that is probably where I will end up.  I will not do well in that setting.

Dad died in a nursing home at 90, 18 months after a stroke. My siblings WERE nearby but really, he could not be taken care of by family without seriously burning them out. He couldn't move from the bed to a wheel chair, couldn't get to the bathroom by himself and was losing his abilities to handle technology. My SIL was a retired nurse and felt so bad that she couldn't take him in. All of us knew it was out of the question.

My paternal grandmother and one great-grandmother on Mom's side lasted less than a week after entering LTC (although they'd had significant support from family while living in their homes). That's how I wanna go.

That is how I want to go also.  I will not last long in a nursing home unless I don't know I'm there. 

I did not know my sister had promised dad that she would never put him in a nursing home.  By the end, there was no choice and he was in horrible shape.  So dehydrated, etc.  He lasted 3 weeks.  I will always believe his last years would have been better had he been in memory care.  My aunt was in one where they lived in pods of 8 people.  They were fed when they wanted to eat, etc.  Everything was on the patients schedule.  That was what I wanted for him.