Family who shunned late wife, now has grave request

[Opti]

I'm wondering what people think about this. 


www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/parenting/family-who-shunned-late-son-s-wife-for-10-years-slammed-over-grave-request/ar-AAYgCKk?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=72697e04f33e49ee9d5754bd9d06b433


All of which only adds to the complexity of the situation facing one U.K. woman posting to Mumsnet who lost her first husband in a "tragic accident" in the U.S. in 2004, when she was in her 20s.



According to the woman, who has since remarried and shared her story under the handle Bellysmackers, in the years that followed his death her late husband's grieving family made no contact with her.



"His family never really bothered with me much afterwards. Never visited me etc," she wrote. " I always felt like they resented me for being the one who survived."



It took 10 years for them to reach out, leaving a gift on her doorstep with a note that simply said "sorry." Though she felt their sudden desire to see how she was coping came "a bit too late," she did begin conversing with them over text from "time to time."

More recently, one female relative of her late husband got in touch "being friendly" and asking how she was. After the initial pleasantries, she was asked if she "would consider" signing over "ownership" of her husband's grave to them. She was told: " It would mean a lot" and it was "the right thing" considering they were "his immediate family."

[billisonboard]

There are a lot of details, including from the other side of this situation, which I would want to have before forming an opinion. 

[busymom]

Based on the information given, no, I would NOT give them ownership of her husband's grave. They dropped her like a hot potato after his death, and suddenly NOW they come out of the woodwork?  Nope.  They only came back because they wanted something, not because they give a rip about her.

[Opti]

I agree it would be nice to have more details especially if the woman was acting on the parent's behalf or just fishing for the son's gravesite for free for reasons of her own.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I would possibly consider it for immediate family under the right circumstances.

Not sure this is it. Do they visit the site? Do the upkeep? Does it have significance to them beyond well he's my kin not yours?

10 years with not so much as a text? Nope.



Without details how do you know it's not a scam?

[TheOtherMe]

Isn't a wife immediate family?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I was thinking parents and like if I had moved away but they are still nearby.

But that would only be if I had a super close relationship and it had been discussed previously.

But not people who haven't spoken one word to me in years. You want something that you can't get without the plot otherwise why wait till now?

[jerseygirl]

Some graves can have more than one buried person. Maybe the family wants a free burial site

[billisonboard]

The new Mr. Bellysmackers has to be thinking,  "Just let it (the plot and the resentment) go". My wife lost her unfaithful husband to another woman about the same length of time ago and I at times (like their granddaughter's recent graduation) wish she could. 

[haapai]

This is a hot mess.  It also appears to involve folks on both sides of the pond.  I've got no idea what is being left out of this story.  We've also got no idea where the grave is or where folks live or once lived.  Your sense that the story is only being partially told should be fully engaged. 

How the hell is this being published under the Newsweek masthead?  

Forget what is going on with the main/only source of the story and contemplate what has happened to Newsweek.  How did this succinct summary of the week's most relevant news ever get bogged down in this?  This is tabloid-level journalism. 

[Tiny]

OK. I got a LOT of dead relatives in 4 different cemeteries (all but one, Catholic maybe that makes a difference?). And OK, the cemeteries are all large... lots of dead people.

There isn't enough information in the article...

If the deceased's family wanted him buried in their family "cemetery" (ok, maybe that's just a thing for my family and friends' families) why didn't they speak up/say something when the arrangements were being made?? As in they left it up to the wife to make the arrangements and pay for the burial plot OF HER CHOICE.

Can and do the deceased's family visit the grave? Maybe they have no idea where he's buried and can't figure out a polite way to say - hey, we can't remember which cemetery you buried our son can you get us the information on the cemetery and plot number?

If they know where he's buried and visit - maybe they want to change the headstone. They would need ownership of the plot to do that.  (added:  maybe the head stone has something like "beloved Husband of "wife's name here"  and they want to change the headstone so it doesn't say that...) 

The article mentions something about the family wanting to "scatter their ashes" on their son's grave - which might mean they will want to add their names to the headstone. (that's kind of what I want - my parents have a big ole headstone on 4 graves. Their names are on it. I would like to have my name added to the headstone when I'm dead and my ashes put there - or heck just my name on it... so I'm not forgotten. I have the paperwork for the grave sites. I'm hoping my executor will be able to accomplish this (as most likely my older siblings will all be dead by the time I die. )

Anyway, they'd need ownership of the plot to change the headstone to add their names. I doubt they'd be able to layer 2 or 3 coffins in the single grave... I think you need a special ground vault for that. (The cemetery with most the Dead Relatives is offering that kind of thing - two people buried in one "grave plot" - but that's only offered on the "new hill" that specifically has that type of burials going in. this was a topic of discussion around Mother's Day when we were visiting the Dead Relatives and saw that a new hill was opening - it actually had a sign that showed the new "accomodations"...it was macabrely funny... we laughed. ) I doubt the family is going to want to go thru the expense of re-interring their son.


FWIW: Since it's only one grave site - and if I was not planning to "piggy back" on the plot/headstone in some way when I died - I'd probably let it go and give them the "ownership" of the plot. When the woman who wrote for advice is dead and her children/hubby are going thru her things - the plot ownership paper work will be little more than a curiosity and will probably go to the shredder.    I'd let this "burning coal" go, give the previous hubby's mom/dad the plot ownership  and move forward with "I did something compassionate. I am at peace with this. " and move on.

[Tiny]

So, what kind of "free" stuff do you get with owning a grave site   Especially a single site that that ALREADY has an occupant??  The cemetery should be maintaining ALL the gravesites (mowing grass, trimming trees, resetting headstones that sink or tilt, etc)

You can have a love one go to the grave site and scatter or bury your ashes (not in an urn) any time you want.  It's probably not legal - but I doubt anyone would stop you. 

IF names need to be added to the headstone  to include the "ashes owners" - someone has to request it and then PAY to have that done - even if you own the grave site. 


OK, maybe if the person using the grave has been dead for decades the grave site can be re-used by who ever owns it but I'm guessing there's the expense of dealing with the old vault (and what's in it)... and putting in a new vault etc...  

Is this an above ground crypt?  Like in New Orleans?  Where family members don't go into the "grave" in a coffin and there's plenty of space for lots of future dead relatives?       (how cool is that!!) 

In the ground burials are typically one per plot - unless you pay for a special double burial vault - and I think cemeteries say were this kind of vault can be used...  (at the cemetery where the majority of Dead Relatives are there's a hill we call the "condominums" because those graves are double deckers...          

Dang, now I have to go down that internet Rabbit Hole about burials in Modern America... 
 

[Opti]

Jun 11, 2022 17:14:30 GMT -5 haapai said:

This is a hot mess.  It also appears to involve folks on both sides of the pond.  I've got no idea what is being left out of this story.  We've also got no idea where the grave is or where folks live or once lived.  Your sense that the story is only being partially told should be fully engaged. 

How the hell is this being published under the Newsweek masthead?  

Forget what is going on with the main/only source of the story and contemplate what has happened to Newsweek.  How did this succinct summary of the week's most relevant news ever get bogged down in this?  This is tabloid-level journalism. 

I agree. Newsweek tends to scan Mumsnet for stories much like other outlets post stuff from TikTok and other places. I just found this interesting. (Not enough to join Mumsnet to read what I think I might be missing on this.)

The remarried widow and the parents both live in the UK where the grave is located. It feels like things have been left out or deleted. 

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4563272-husbands-burial-plot?page=1

I have a suspicion you are right. Maybe their ashes. It was my SIL who messaged. I guess they are getting her to butter me up to sign things over. I can't begin to explain how sneaky they are and have been over the years. Just very untrustworthy and selfish sadly 😥

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2022 17:23:39 GMT -5 Tiny said:

FWIW: Since it's only one grave site - and if I was not planning to "piggy back" on the plot/headstone in some way when I died - I'd probably let it go and give them the "ownership" of the plot. When the woman who wrote for advice is dead and her children/hubby are going thru her things - the plot ownership paper work will be little more than a curiosity and will probably go to the shredder.    I'd let this "burning coal" go, give the previous hubby's mom/dad the plot ownership  and move forward with "I did something compassionate. I am at peace with this. " and move on.

That's my feeling.  Let it go.  Unless you find peace visiting and fear they might move him (unlikely since it's expensive and involves all kids of legal work), why not?

I still have most of DH's ashes (the portions not scattered in the lake behind the house, in Alaska and Hawaii, in Panama and Costa Rica, Bolivia, India, Nepal, France, Iceland, Germany, Malta, Mexico and Scotland).  If one of his kids, who have been out of contact since he died 6 years ago, wanted his ashes I'd hold a small potion aside (for more travels) and ship them off.  DH isn't there anymore.

[Deleted]

This is exactly why we will be cremated and our ashes placed in a columbarium. I have no family so anyone popping up will be frauds, and DH has only a handful of freaks left alive on his side. DH was invited to purchase a plot in an historic cemetery where some of his are buried and he declined. If I outlive him and they come after me it will be interesting. I suspect DH's family will be more interested in the $$ than his remains

[chiver78]

there's definitely a lot of detail missing. but this story sounds an awful lot like my mom's ancestors. my mom is half Irish, half Italian, a very common blend in this area of the country. my grandfather passed from cancer when she was 11, the youngest kid in her fam. there's a bunch of sour blood for the Irish side (my grandfather's side) for my mom and one of my two uncles. I've never actually met the Irish side of my fam. my Nana never had a driver's license, and according to all accounts, the Irish fam in Southie basically abandoned Nana and her kids after she became widowed.

fast forward to the late 90s when I was in college (in Boston, no less). my mom and her brothers each received some certified mail from an uncle (not even blood) who was asking them to just sign over their share of the family house in Dorchester, to him. he wanted outright ownership after his wife died. his wife was my grandfather's sister.

AFAIK, after one uncle signed it over, the other and my mom are still saluting Uncle G with a wave of 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕 mom and I joked that I should have showed up on the front porch and asked to have my college years for free housing, like everyone else that had cycled through the triple decker over the years. haha. for those that know Boston proper, this family house is on N St in Southie, near Castle Island.

[Opti]

How many different people share ownership of that house now? Sorry to hear your nana was treated badly after her husband's death.

[chiver78]

Jun 11, 2022 19:43:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

How many different people share ownership of that house now? Sorry to hear your nana was treated badly after her husband's death.

the math is a little fuzzy, bc I don't know exactly. but basically, the house was my great grandmother's, and would pass to her children upon her death. if her children predeceased her, that child's share would be split across their heirs. I *think* my grandfather was one of 5? 6? and at the time the certified letter came in, he was the only one to predecease his mother. Uncle G came in and charmed the other aunts and uncles bc his wife had taken care of her mom in later years, and the only roadblocks left were my mom and uncles.

I wish I'd seen this topic this morning. my parents were actually here earlier. I need to ask her for an update on this now. you've piqued my curiosity.

ETA: sorry to have totally hijacked this thread. go back to the original content. I'll check back in if I get an update from mom, for anyone that might be interested. but I'll shut up now. haha

[laterbloomer]

I would be very suspicious about why they want it. So I would check if someone else is looking to buy it for some reason. But if there was nothing shady I would probably let them have it. What would I do with it?

[TheOtherMe]

I actually have two headstones in two different country cemeteries.  

My parents do own the plot in one cemetery.

An ancestor of mine is buried in the other one.  Cemetery said as long as I would only be putting an urn there, I could do that and put a headstone there to claim it.  So I did.  The ancestor died at about age 8 or 9 because he put a piece of corn in his ear and it got infected.  There are no other family members near this child.  So I called the cemetery board.  

It's in the ancient part of the cemetery and there are no records of who is buried where. 

Gotta love country cemeteries.  When it was time to bury the ashes of my aunt and uncle, another uncle who was on the cemetery board, dug the hole and the family had a cemetery.  Didn't bother with licenses etc.  

I'm now thinking the brothers and sisters paid for a headstone.

My aunt's son dropped off the ashes at with my mom for her to take care of until the siblings decided what to do with them.  They sat in a closet for at least a year.  She was glad when the ceremony finally happened.

[giramomma]

It doesn't make sense at all.

My inlaws bought grave sites when DH's grandma died, I'm pretty sure. They bought two. Because you know, they were married.

My mom's side of the family bought her a plot in the family "compound" so to speak. My mom's mom, my mom, and my unmarried great aunts were all buried together, by my mom's (maternal)grandma and grandpa.

I don't know when it happened. But, they never bought a plot for my dad. They also never bought a plot for my grandfather. Mostly, I think because he was an ass. But, my dad was no an ass.

So, why would the wife just buy one plot for her husband, unless she knew she was going to remarry. I mean. I don't begrudge her that. And yes, she was mourning. But. Clearly she had a strong desire to move on. Turning her husband''s remains over to his family of origin doesn't mean that she has to forget about him.

Now, if her husband was part of a compound, like my mom's plot is, that left the wife out...yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled either. But, the wife could have chose a different place to bury her husband. One that she could join him. I mean, the woman could have cremated her first husband, and then requested that she be cremated and her ashes split between husbands final resting place, when the time came.

It's all interesting to think about.

It makes me wonder what my dad really wanted. I'm pretty sure he had his own separate wants from my mom.

My mom also chose to cut out most of his side of the family. While my dad was very enmeshed with my mom, I don't think he would have wanted to forsake his family, either. My aunt is like 2 years younger than my parents. When she goes, it's the end. I need to figure out a way to contact her without ruffling my mom's feathers.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I don't get this at all.  But, then again, I thought the dead person owned the plot?  Why does the family want it and why does she not want to give it up?  I mean I can go and visit anyone's grave that I wish without owning it.  Are there two side by side and they want the other one to bury someone else? 

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2022 21:15:54 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So, why would the wife just buy one plot for her husband, unless she knew she was going to remarry. 

In-ground burial is expensive and maybe she didn't have the money to buy a double plot.  When DH's mother died he scattered her ashes over her late husband's grave rather than buy a second plot.

[Opti]

Jun 12, 2022 6:15:28 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I don't get this at all.  But, then again, I thought the dead person owned the plot?  Why does the family want it and why does she not want to give it up?  I mean I can go and visit anyone's grave that I wish without owning it.  Are there two side by side and they want the other one to bury someone else? 

I understand some of it. If his family treated her badly during the marriage, in the aftermath of the accident, and ignored her existence once he was buried ... why give them something she had to pay money for? She would have had to flown the body to the US, buy a burial plot, casket, and headstone. And now, at least SIL thinks she should sign it over with no monetary compensation or even a direct appeal from his parents.

[NoNamePerson]

Reminds me of my Ex MIL wanting my engagement ring back after 18 yrs married to her baby!! I set a price/value on the ring and said have at it. She declined  

Maybe the person should say sure "it will cost you $50,000" Bet the subject is dropped  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jun 12, 2022 8:31:02 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 12, 2022 6:15:28 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I don't get this at all.  But, then again, I thought the dead person owned the plot?  Why does the family want it and why does she not want to give it up?  I mean I can go and visit anyone's grave that I wish without owning it.  Are there two side by side and they want the other one to bury someone else? 

I understand some of it. If his family treated her badly during the marriage, in the aftermath of the accident, and ignored her existence once he was buried ... why give them something she had to pay money for? She would have had to flown the body to the US, buy a burial plot, casket, and headstone. And now, at least SIL thinks she should sign it over with no monetary compensation or even a direct appeal from his parents.

But what do you do with a filled burial plot?  What exactly does she gain from owning it?  She can't sell it can she?  Have the body exhumed and cremated and reuse the plot?  Of course, on the same token, I don't understand why they'd want to own it either.

I don't know.  The whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

[billisonboard]

I understand some of it. If his family treated her badly during the marriage, in the aftermath of the accident, and ignored her existence once he was buried ... why give them something she had to pay money for? She would have had to flown the body to the US, buy a burial plot, casket, and headstone. And now, at least SIL thinks she should sign it over with no monetary compensation or even a direct appeal from his parents.

(I removed the "who" posted this in an attempt to make it not personal)

What of the above is supported by facts available and what is filling in the blanks left by a lack of actual information? I haven't seen any information about the marriage prior to the accident. Maybe I missed it but even then is it other than Bellysmacker's reporting? Did she handle all the funeral expenses? Did the conversation on transferring ownership get to a point where it would have been comfortable to discuss "paying her back" for expenses?

I think it is easy to form an opinion in situations like this and then build the case to support it by adding details that might or might not actually be true.

[Opti]

Jun 12, 2022 8:50:37 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 12, 2022 8:31:02 GMT -5 Opti said:

I understand some of it. If his family treated her badly during the marriage, in the aftermath of the accident, and ignored her existence once he was buried ... why give them something she had to pay money for? She would have had to flown the body to the US, buy a burial plot, casket, and headstone. And now, at least SIL thinks she should sign it over with no monetary compensation or even a direct appeal from his parents.

But what do you do with a filled burial plot?  What exactly does she gain from owning it?  She can't sell it can she?  Have the body exhumed and cremated and reuse the plot?  Of course, on the same token, I don't understand why they'd want to own it either.

I don't know.  The whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think there is great value in her owning the plot except for insuring she can visit if she chooses to. If the parents own it, they could exhume him and move him elsewhere. Or change the headstone to their liking. Forbid her to visit and try to enforce it.

In some other article, the parents paid for their daughter's resting place and is trying to enforce not letting her financee put flowers on the grave. Its a bit over the top, he wants to bring flower boxes worth and her Dad tosses them every time he finds them.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jun 12, 2022 9:14:42 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 12, 2022 8:50:37 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

But what do you do with a filled burial plot?  What exactly does she gain from owning it?  She can't sell it can she?  Have the body exhumed and cremated and reuse the plot?  Of course, on the same token, I don't understand why they'd want to own it either.

I don't know.  The whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think there is great value in her owning the plot except for insuring she can visit if she chooses to. If the parents own it, they could exhume him and move him elsewhere. Or change the headstone to their liking. Forbid her to visit and try to enforce it.

In some other article, the parents paid for their daughter's resting place and is trying to enforce not letting her financee put flowers on the grave. Its a bit over the top, he wants to bring flower boxes worth and her Dad tosses them every time he finds them.

Are there cemeteries that don't allow people to visit unless they own plots?  Around here anyone can freely walk through any cemetery and leave whatever they want. 

[Opti]

Jun 12, 2022 9:11:04 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I understand some of it. If his family treated her badly during the marriage, in the aftermath of the accident, and ignored her existence once he was buried ... why give them something she had to pay money for? She would have had to flown the body to the US, buy a burial plot, casket, and headstone. And now, at least SIL thinks she should sign it over with no monetary compensation or even a direct appeal from his parents.

(I removed the "who" posted this in an attempt to make it not personal)

What of the above is supported by facts available and what is filling in the blanks left by a lack of actual information? I haven't seen any information about the marriage prior to the accident. Maybe I missed it but even then is it other than Bellysmacker's reporting? Did she handle all the funeral expenses? Did the conversation on transferring ownership get to a point where it would have been comfortable to discuss "paying her back" for expenses?

I think it is easy to form an opinion in situations like this and then build the case to support it by adding details that might or might not actually be true.

Yes the only info we have is from Bellysmacker like most posts. If the parents bought the plot surrounded by no other family plots, why didn't they retain ownership? If its shared ownership, why do they need or want full ownership now? There were hints of other info probably deleted b4 or shortly after Newsweek reported on it. Parents or family members raiding his belongings without asking. 

I do not know what happened pre funeral nor has she posted what she thinks he would have wanted. The conversation on the plot has been through text. Per her the text answer for why the parents wanted it was, it will make them feel better.