Family who shunned late wife, now has grave request

[Opti]

Jun 12, 2022 9:36:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 12, 2022 9:14:42 GMT -5 Opti said:

I don't think there is great value in her owning the plot except for insuring she can visit if she chooses to. If the parents own it, they could exhume him and move him elsewhere. Or change the headstone to their liking. Forbid her to visit and try to enforce it.

In some other article, the parents paid for their daughter's resting place and is trying to enforce not letting her financee put flowers on the grave. Its a bit over the top, he wants to bring flower boxes worth and her Dad tosses them every time he finds them.

Are there cemeteries that don't allow people to visit unless they own plots?  Around here anyone can freely walk through any cemetery and leave whatever they want. 

Generally no I think, but the one I mentioned, I think the parents got or are trying to get a restraining order to stop him from coming or at least leaving flowers.

[geenamercile]

I would give it to them, I personally do not receive anything emotional for visiting a grave sight of someone I know.  

However, factors I think would depend on if she does receive something for visiting/owning the grave site.  Could she have the plots next to it where she would want to be buried next to him, and maybe her other husband on the other side.  I have a friend who lost her first husband in her 20s, she has remarried and has children with the new husband.  Unlike this story, she has stayed super close to her deceased husband ´ s family and her children see them as another set of grandparents.  Every year she remembers her first husband's birthday and day of death. The love she carries for him, does not distract/overshadow/ or diminish the love she has for her current husband.  Knowing her, I can see why the lady in the article would want to keep it.  

I can also see where the husbands family in the article may feel depending on how the author has moved on with her life, that maybe they are more of next of kin now then she is.   

[haapai]

What does a coffin and transportation to the UK cost?   I honestly do not know but I've heard that it can be dire. 

Do you think that the widow possibly paid for it?  She was in her twenties when her husband was killed. 

This is probably much more about money than anyone is admitting. 

[Opti]

Jun 12, 2022 13:26:05 GMT -5 haapai said:

What does a coffin and transportation to the UK cost?   I honestly do not know but I've heard that it can be dire. 

Do you think that the widow possibly paid for it?  She was in her twenties when her husband was killed. 

This is probably much more about money than anyone is admitting. 

I do think it is about money and control. Yes we have no idea who paid for what. Since she said late twenties, I'm thinking 26 to 29 yrs. old for both of them. Here in the US for a job, PhD, other? 

[haapai]

I think that we can be certain that the cost of the burial plot was negligible compared to all of the other costs. 

I've been goggling it and coming up with a $10K minimum, but I'm uncertain what is included in that figure.  There are a lot of costs to add up and none of them are small.  There are a lot of services to be purchased from different providers.  I can easily see that $10K number doubling. 

A mourner could easily make a decision to handle those costs without knowing how high they are or how many there are.  That can cause a lot of stickiness, especially if there is reluctance to mention the amounts. 

[haapai]

Oh, the mumsnet thread goes on for pages and pages.  I'd only read the first page and had missed the tabs at the bottom.  I'm still reading.  I may have jumped the gun. 

OTOH, I am still convinced that there is a story regarding what happened around the time of death and interment that explains a lot of the coldness and distance.  Maybe I am an American and don't understand the Brits.  These folks are so private and so succinct. 

I definitely should be doing something other than paying attention to this.  The yard screams for care.  Sudoku beckons.  I'm still hooked. 

[Opti]

Here's that other story if you need a small rabbit hole.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/man-convicted-of-littering-for-flowers-on-fiancee-s-grave-after-father-told-him-to-stop/ar-AAYnljp?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=2ece03a73ac246a69cc7d981a88d97f7

AUBURN, Ala. (WRBL) – An Alabama man arrested for criminal littering after putting flowers on his fiancee's grave was found guilty by a municipal judge Thursday.



At the conclusion of the bench trial, the judge said he was tasked with following the law, not emotion, and the flowers were a clear violation based on testimony and evidence. The judge also offered his condolences to the defendant, Winchester Hagans, and the complainant, Dr. Tom Ford, for the loss of Hagans' fiancee, Dr. Ford's late daughter. Hagans intends to file an appeal, which could lead to a jury trial.

[irishpad]

Yeah, lots of missing information in the article.   For instance, I didn't even see if he was buried in the US or UK.

Just a note about burial plots (at least in my area, I think is generally the same throughout the country but I could be wrong)  When you "buy" a burial plot, you are not actually buying the land, you are buying the rights to have a body or ashes buried in the plot.  The plot is still owned by the cemetery.  

[raeoflyte]

Jun 11, 2022 21:15:54 GMT -5 giramomma said:

It doesn't make sense at all.

My inlaws bought grave sites when DH's grandma died, I'm pretty sure. They bought two. Because you know, they were married.

My mom's side of the family bought her a plot in the family "compound" so to speak. My mom's mom, my mom, and my unmarried great aunts were all buried together, by my mom's (maternal)grandma and grandpa.

I don't know when it happened. But, they never bought a plot for my dad. They also never bought a plot for my grandfather. Mostly, I think because he was an ass. But, my dad was no an ass.

So, why would the wife just buy one plot for her husband, unless she knew she was going to remarry. I mean. I don't begrudge her that. And yes, she was mourning. But. Clearly she had a strong desire to move on. Turning her husband''s remains over to his family of origin doesn't mean that she has to forget about him.

Now, if her husband was part of a compound, like my mom's plot is, that left the wife out...yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled either. But, the wife could have chose a different place to bury her husband. One that she could join him. I mean, the woman could have cremated her first husband, and then requested that she be cremated and her ashes split between husbands final resting place, when the time came.

It's all interesting to think about.

It makes me wonder what my dad really wanted. I'm pretty sure he had his own separate wants from my mom.

My mom also chose to cut out most of his side of the family. While my dad was very enmeshed with my mom, I don't think he would have wanted to forsake his family, either. My aunt is like 2 years younger than my parents. When she goes, it's the end. I need to figure out a way to contact her without ruffling my mom's feathers.

This is going to be nitpicking a word choice, so I apologize but I couldn't seem to let it go.

My mom's first husband died when she was 24. His parents (I do consider them my grandparents) offered to buy a plot for my mom next to him which she declined. Not because she had a strong desire to move on though. Because she was now a 24 year old widow with a 3 year old to raise by herself. It wasn't the time to plan her final resting place. It was time to figure out how to keep going. The decision really wasn't about the possibility of dating or marrying someone in the future.

I don't get much from visiting grave sites, but so far only my grandparents have passed and I haven't been back up to where they're buried. I might feel different when it's my parents. My mom on the other hand does feel it's important to visit grave sites. We always went to her grandparents, and her first husband's plots when visiting those areas.

[zibazinski]

I have some information which might help. As most of you know, DH died in 2015. His half sister is trustee of his estate. I asked to buy one of the gravesites that he owned as trustee put them all into the estate. His bio daughter objected. She plans on burying her mother next to him thereby erasing me period. I circumvented her by putting my headstone on DH’s grave and can be laid to rest there. Three people total can be put in one gravesite. Perhaps that’s the plan.

[giramomma]

Jun 13, 2022 7:26:22 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

This is going to be nitpicking a word choice, so I apologize but I couldn't seem to let it go.

My mom's first husband died when she was 24. His parents (I do consider them my grandparents) offered to buy a plot for my mom next to him which she declined. Not because she had a strong desire to move on though. Because she was now a 24 year old widow with a 3 year old to raise by herself. It wasn't the time to plan her final resting place. It was time to figure out how to keep going. The decision really wasn't about the possibility of dating or marrying someone in the future.

I don't get much from visiting grave sites, but so far only my grandparents have passed and I haven't been back up to where they're buried. I might feel different when it's my parents. My mom on the other hand does feel it's important to visit grave sites. We always went to her grandparents, and her first husband's plots when visiting those areas.

I don't know that it's nitpicking word choice.

It's more just sharing out that we are all different.

I probably would have been one to buy a grave site right away. But, that's how I'm wired. It is also the most streamline choice (don't have to revisit the decision, which is timesaving and timing saving is important as a single parent ).

I'm generally pragmatic first, process second. The only time I processed before I was pragmatic is when I was pregnant with the missy.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 13, 2022 7:58:43 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jun 13, 2022 7:26:22 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

This is going to be nitpicking a word choice, so I apologize but I couldn't seem to let it go.

My mom's first husband died when she was 24. His parents (I do consider them my grandparents) offered to buy a plot for my mom next to him which she declined. Not because she had a strong desire to move on though. Because she was now a 24 year old widow with a 3 year old to raise by herself. It wasn't the time to plan her final resting place. It was time to figure out how to keep going. The decision really wasn't about the possibility of dating or marrying someone in the future.

I don't get much from visiting grave sites, but so far only my grandparents have passed and I haven't been back up to where they're buried. I might feel different when it's my parents. My mom on the other hand does feel it's important to visit grave sites. We always went to her grandparents, and her first husband's plots when visiting those areas.

I don't know that it's nitpicking word choice.

It's more just sharing out that we are all different.

I probably would have been one to buy a grave site right away. But, that's how I'm wired. It is also the most streamline choice (don't have to revisit the decision, which is timesaving and timing saving is important as a single parent ).

I'm generally pragmatic first, process second. The only time I processed before I was pragmatic is when I was pregnant with the missy.

Saving time is important but so is letting stuff go that isn't necessary in the immediate future and where she would be buried didn't impact and wasn't likely to make one bit of difference to her life in the next 20 years. That to me is a decision that makes sense to postpone.

And on the flip side, if not choosing that plot is considered planning on moving on, is taking it a plan to stay still? Death is so different from divorce.

My mom has always just known the right thing to do in life. I thought I would get that too, but when I was 24 I realized that while I was still basically a (self supporting) dumbass kid, my mom had moved across the world, buried a husband, and was raising a grieving toddler. She had more life experience at 24 then I have at 42.

She's said she's glad she didn't take them up on that plot since that would mean being buried far away from her parents and the rest of her family (only important from the visiting perspective). I dont think my sister has strong feelings either way. Her life is also in another part of the country so having her parents buried together but far away probably isn't much of a convenience.

[TheOtherMe]

I come from a family where every Memorial Day weekend, we spent an entire day visiting cemeteries where many family members were buried.  I now know there are a lot more family members in those cemeteries than we knew.  
It was part of what we did.  The families of my mom's sister and brother joined us, so we had 3 cars full of people.  We were the family who had picnics in the cemetery.  Usually at the one with the big bell we could ring.  Couldn't get there if it had been rainy so some years we picnicked at a different cemetery.

I have several family members who had to make choices about buying plots either due to spouses dying young or losing young children.  All chose to have both names engraved on the headstone.  Most remarried.  Usually the spouse from the 2nd marriage is buried in the same cemetery with their first spouse.  

One cousin and her 2nd husband had a bench made and put by the lake at the cemetery.

One stop on the way home from Toronto in July is one last attempt to find that old family cemetery located on a farm in Ohio.  I have better directions now and I'm going to call the historical society as I am told they have a file on our family since they were some of the first settlers in the area.