what are you doing right now?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 19, 2023 15:31:48 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Sept 19, 2023 12:06:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

And do you want to BE a garbage collector? It probably isn't too late. You can leave your college degree off the application. Not me! There are some jobs that I don't want to do no matter how good the benefits and pension. Plus, that particular job is getting more and more automated. You might be lucky to hang on until you are 55.

Actually yes I am too old to start as a garbage man.      That's one of those jobs where they don't want you starting past 35 which makes sense due to physicality and how close that puts you to being able to walk out the door with a pension.

It is also heavily unionized which is not a bad thing but it tends to be a "my grandfather was a garbage man, my dad was a garbage man" type of set up around here.

It's a pretty good gig.  That's more what I meant about the school disparaging it in favor of college.  I encourage Gwen to really LOOK at careers don't turn your nose up at stuff that doesn't require or expect a traditional 4 year+ college route.

The jobs here at my current company that would take sociology degrees only require bachelor's degrees.  They take them for the customer side of things like product development, marketing etc.  IDK what they pay but I am betting it's more than the $20k I started out with.

But did you want to be a garbage collector when you were 18 and someone talked you out of it?  Did you seriously think about being a plumber or an electrician?  If these were your goals and someone talked you out of them, you have my sympathy.  But I think you are looking back and seeing it much differently than it actually was.  

But if those were your goals and someone talked you out of them, shame on them!

No. I just think it is interesting looking back at HS how hard they pushed college on EVERYONE.  Right down to like I mentioned about my brother, having conferences with parents about how they need to force their kids to go.

Garbage men happened to be the boogeyman of the day.  Like it was some sort of bad awful job that you'd only take if you had no choice.  I'd be three steps away from poverty if I took a job like that!

Yeah.  .

That's just one of several jobs that don't require a degree that pay more than mine does with a bachelor's and offers better benefits. I don't know if they still do it I'll have to see in a couple years here but I know now the HSs were getting kick backs for shoving college down students' throats whether they wanted to go or should have gone to begin with.

Being successful and making money in life doesn't always equate to getting a bachelor's.  That's something I stress to my kids.   I'm not going to force either of them the other direction either but don't close off your options because someone with an agenda has convinced you are somehow more worthy of existing if you choose the particular path they've pushed you on.  If you look close enough that person may just have it better than you.

I own the path I chose.  It has kept me employed, a roof over my head and I have two wonderful kids so I haven't done too shabby for myself despite "going to school to play with fruit flies" as someone on the old MSN put it once.

But I also have enough life experience under my belt to know now I should have listened to my professors and spread myself out enough I could pivot easier later in life.  I was too myopic in my goals.

Given how much college costs yes I want Gwen to have some general idea of what she wants to do but don't fall into the trap I did of getting TOO planned out and feeding off the praise for being "so smart/so organized" and feeling like you committed yourself now.  Be open to and research all your options and think outside the box.   I DO kick myself for not going for that $55k county job sometimes.  Would I have gotten it?  Who knows, but JFC I want to smack my 20 something self sometimes.  

I should have been more flexible from the start rather than been forced into it because I had to.   That's what I am doing here I am not tied to the department I am in currently.  While I would prefer Microbiology I am also open to possibly product development or some of the customer related aspects if I can find some ways to cross train.   First I needed to get myself into a company where I have those choices and I did.

[andi9899]

Sept 19, 2023 15:46:19 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 19, 2023 15:31:48 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

But did you want to be a garbage collector when you were 18 and someone talked you out of it?  Did you seriously think about being a plumber or an electrician?  If these were your goals and someone talked you out of them, you have my sympathy.  But I think you are looking back and seeing it much differently than it actually was.  

But if those were your goals and someone talked you out of them, shame on them!

I'm gonna make this about me for a hot second, but it fits with what you're saying here. where I went to HS, we also had a Voc Tech HS and one Catholic HS both within town lines. other VT/religious HSs were in the area, and plucked sports talent. but that's another story. anyway, an anecdote that sticks in my memory from 1992 was when my mom came home from a parents' orientation to HS and all she could talk about was how this one mother was horrified that her kid wanted to hit the Voc Tech HS and how could she convince him (I think it was a boy?) to come to the public HS. my mother, who I could tell stories about for days....., my mother got up and asked the woman something about would she please convince her daughter to not go to the public school and go to the Catholic HS.   for effing real. y'all know me now, I'm not shy. back then? I was still respectful when people tried to shove their religious crap down my throat. not a shot in hell I was going to that Catholic HS!   but it's funny how certain things are important to certain people. as another aside - the highly competitive university where I earned my degree, my announcement to my HS guidance counselor that this place was my 1st choice was met with snark. and yet, I don't think I'd be accepted as an incoming freshman with the solid grades I had back then. 

but, back to that kid - what was so wrong about the Voc Tech route? I worked with a brilliant HVAC engineer about 10y ago when I was still doing process automation. he had a full 4yr Bachelor's Degree in Mechanical Engineering, built on a HS diploma from a different-area Voc Tech HS for HVAC maintenance. education is what you make of it, and it's a tool to use in finding your way to becoming a successful and productive member of society. I realize now that my mom was trying to avoid her daughters having to physically work like my dad has his entire life, but a step right instead of left doesn't tie you to that path for your life. and I think that was lost on a lot of people when we were growing up. 

When my kids were in HS, a lot of the female students at the catholic HS were pregnant. I don't remember anyone that was at the public school they went to. It's those fine Christian values though! No shade to teen moms, I was a teen mom. Just don't force your religion on me while not demonstrating your religious views.

[lurkyloo]

Sept 19, 2023 15:53:59 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 19, 2023 15:46:19 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I'm gonna make this about me for a hot second, but it fits with what you're saying here. where I went to HS, we also had a Voc Tech HS and one Catholic HS both within town lines. other VT/religious HSs were in the area, and plucked sports talent. but that's another story. anyway, an anecdote that sticks in my memory from 1992 was when my mom came home from a parents' orientation to HS and all she could talk about was how this one mother was horrified that her kid wanted to hit the Voc Tech HS and how could she convince him (I think it was a boy?) to come to the public HS. my mother, who I could tell stories about for days....., my mother got up and asked the woman something about would she please convince her daughter to not go to the public school and go to the Catholic HS.   for effing real. y'all know me now, I'm not shy. back then? I was still respectful when people tried to shove their religious crap down my throat. not a shot in hell I was going to that Catholic HS!   but it's funny how certain things are important to certain people. as another aside - the highly competitive university where I earned my degree, my announcement to my HS guidance counselor that this place was my 1st choice was met with snark. and yet, I don't think I'd be accepted as an incoming freshman with the solid grades I had back then. 

but, back to that kid - what was so wrong about the Voc Tech route? I worked with a brilliant HVAC engineer about 10y ago when I was still doing process automation. he had a full 4yr Bachelor's Degree in Mechanical Engineering, built on a HS diploma from a different-area Voc Tech HS for HVAC maintenance. education is what you make of it, and it's a tool to use in finding your way to becoming a successful and productive member of society. I realize now that my mom was trying to avoid her daughters having to physically work like my dad has his entire life, but a step right instead of left doesn't tie you to that path for your life. and I think that was lost on a lot of people when we were growing up. 

When my kids were in HS, a lot of the female students at the catholic HS were pregnant. I don't remember anyone that was at the public school they went to. It's those fine Christian values though! No shade to teen moms, I was a teen mom. Just don't force your religion on me while not demonstrating your religious views.

They are demonstrating their religious views just fine…no birth control and no abortion because obviously pregnancy is a punishment for having sex blessing from above.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

swamp (or any other attorneys here).  Why would an omnibus hearing be cancelled?  The Friday hearing for the guy accused of killing his girlfriend and hiding her body from our town was suddenly cancelled.  Not rescheduled, just cancelled. 

[chiver78]

Sept 19, 2023 16:11:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

swamp (or any other attorneys here).  Why would an omnibus hearing be cancelled?  The Friday hearing for the guy accused of killing his girlfriend and hiding her body from our town was suddenly cancelled.  Not rescheduled, just cancelled. 

what was the hearing for? I'm not an attorney, but I'm learning a lot from the ongoings of a high profile case around here. a woman has been accused of murdering her police officer BF after a night of drinking. evidence has come out to show pretty clearly that she's being framed, and I'll just stop there for this post. but, there was an evidentiary hearing scheduled for late May that when the defense filed a bunch of motions to challenge whatever the prosecution was going to present on that date, the (very biased, should have recused herself for a number of reasons) judge just flat out cancelled the hearing. 

[raeoflyte]

Sept 19, 2023 14:45:56 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

giramomma   A friend of mine got a master's in Reading of some kind and was a reading specialist in inner city Philadelphia.  She grew to absolutely hate her job and finally quit last year.  She did say a lot of it was the parents and their total lack of interest.

She was going through a difficult time.  She and her husband divorced after many years of not getting along so I'm sure all of that also played in to her attitude towards her job.

I have a friend of a friend who quit classroom teaching to be (as best as I can understand it) a reading specialist at a private school and loves it. Said she has a lot of guilt though. That she went in to teaching thinking she'd be helping under privileged kids and instead she's found her joy helping already privileged, mostly rich, white kids. But we all have to put on our own oxygen mask. Hopefully she can find other ways to give back.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 19, 2023 16:17:01 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 19, 2023 16:11:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

swamp (or any other attorneys here).  Why would an omnibus hearing be cancelled?  The Friday hearing for the guy accused of killing his girlfriend and hiding her body from our town was suddenly cancelled.  Not rescheduled, just cancelled. 

what was the hearing for? I'm not an attorney, but I'm learning a lot from the ongoings of a high profile case around here. a woman has been accused of murdering her police officer BF after a night of drinking. evidence has come out to show pretty clearly that she's being framed, and I'll just stop there for this post. but, there was an evidentiary hearing scheduled for late May that when the defense filed a bunch of motions to challenge whatever the prosecution was going to present on that date, the (very biased, should have recused herself for a number of reasons) judge just flat out cancelled the hearing. 

It was an omnibus hearing and from what I'm reading that is something that has to be held within so many days of being charged for the prosecution to present its evidence or something like that. I'm just nervous its not progressing.

[susana1954]

I guess I am picturing how insulted most parents would be if the counselor suggested that a student explore vocational careers.  It is parents as much as school personnel who have pushed the "You hafta go to college" engine down the track.  This is true even for students with, say, Downs.  There are several universities that have special programs so that they, too, can go to "college."  

The NomoreDramaQ1015 we see on here would have been disappointed to not have attended college   You were bright and ambitious enough to see yourself going all the way to the PhD.  If someone had directed you toward the pharm tech program or dental hygienist program (nothing wrong with either - I just was looking for something healthcare related since you are interested in biology), you would have pushed back and you know it.  You would have expected to go to college.

But you aren't too old to change careers.  Lots of teachers come to the profession later in life.  I think you would be awesome.  And like Gira says, there are a lot of scholarship programs.

[chiver78]

Sept 19, 2023 16:31:52 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 19, 2023 16:17:01 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

what was the hearing for? I'm not an attorney, but I'm learning a lot from the ongoings of a high profile case around here. a woman has been accused of murdering her police officer BF after a night of drinking. evidence has come out to show pretty clearly that she's being framed, and I'll just stop there for this post. but, there was an evidentiary hearing scheduled for late May that when the defense filed a bunch of motions to challenge whatever the prosecution was going to present on that date, the (very biased, should have recused herself for a number of reasons) judge just flat out cancelled the hearing. 

It was an omnibus hearing and from what I'm reading that is something that has to be held within so many days of being charged for the prosecution to present its evidence or something like that. I'm just nervous its not progressing.

idk what an omnibus hearing is, then. but if this is the case you posted about awhile ago, then I'm also concerned. please keep us posted! 

[chiver78]

alright, as much as I love this time of year, I hate it for this reason in particular - an hour ago, I was melting in the sliver of direct sunlight that peeked in between the roof line and the patio umbrella. and now, I'm about to go inside to toss the beach coverup in favor of a long-sleeved tshirt and pajama pants. I'll be covered in bug spray soon, too. since Punk and I are outside til bed. 

[wvugurl26]

Google says the purpose is to present the evidence that will be used at trial. My uneducated guess is the state is still gathering evidence they'd like to use at trial and aren't done yet.

[MarionTh230]

My child has just informed me that she plans on failing the entrance exam and interview at the private school tomorrow morning.  While I'm not surprised, I'm not sure if she has enough gumption to stick to that plan.  Guess I'll find out tomorrow.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 19, 2023 16:57:59 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

Google says the purpose is to present the evidence that will be used at trial. My uneducated guess is the state is still gathering evidence they'd like to use at trial and aren't done yet.

I hope. I just don't like that they didn't set a new date.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 19, 2023 17:05:46 GMT -5 MarionTh230 said:

My child has just informed me that she plans on failing the entrance exam and interview at the private school tomorrow morning.  While I'm not surprised, I'm not sure if she has enough gumption to stick to that plan.  Guess I'll find out tomorrow.  

Does she not want to go there?

[raeoflyte]

Sept 19, 2023 14:47:26 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Dammit.  DS sprained his ankle in gym class-big bump o’swelling.  Do I need to take him to the doctor?  My impression is that they’ll just say wrap it, ice it, stay off it and give him ibuprofen.

I would take him in. But I take mine in for everything. And usually regret it.

Hope he feels better.

[raeoflyte]

Sept 19, 2023 17:05:46 GMT -5 MarionTh230 said:

My child has just informed me that she plans on failing the entrance exam and interview at the private school tomorrow morning.  While I'm not surprised, I'm not sure if she has enough gumption to stick to that plan.  Guess I'll find out tomorrow.  

She's got spunk. I like her.

Good luck in the interview and beyond.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

When I was in HS the parasitic relationship between student loans, colleges and high school was just starting to gain momentum.

If a kid wanted to be a garbage man it shouldn't have been discouraged or shamed.

And the trades and other non college jobs definitely shouldn't have been presented as jobs two steps up from poverty.

There was a lot left put and I think that did kids a major disservice.

I'm not a trade person. Nothing wrong with that or vice versa.

That being said I fed too much into planning out my life. I needed and craved the praise I'd get for being so prepared and choosing college.

I've since figured out my rigid need for plans and structure is ADHD.

Now with more life experience a pension and retirement at 55 sounds pretty awesome!

Nobody tells you about that stuff at 18. Y

It's not I can't change at 40 it's I have responsibility and people who depend on me. There are a lot of factors in play that weren't in my 20s.









I don't regret my choices just reflecting on being 18 and my views/goals VS 40.

[MarionTh230]

Sept 19, 2023 17:15:15 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 19, 2023 17:05:46 GMT -5 MarionTh230 said:

My child has just informed me that she plans on failing the entrance exam and interview at the private school tomorrow morning.  While I'm not surprised, I'm not sure if she has enough gumption to stick to that plan.  Guess I'll find out tomorrow.  

Does she not want to go there?

Nope.  Not at all.  She has been quite vocal and adamant that she doesn't want to leave her current school.  Which is why I haven't tried to move her until now.  It's just we are at the point where the school isn't good enough anymore.  2nd grade is way below minimum standards and it's not getting better.  Every day just seems worse.  

Tomorrow ought to be interesting.

[MarionTh230]

Sept 19, 2023 17:24:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Sept 19, 2023 17:05:46 GMT -5 MarionTh230 said:

My child has just informed me that she plans on failing the entrance exam and interview at the private school tomorrow morning.  While I'm not surprised, I'm not sure if she has enough gumption to stick to that plan.  Guess I'll find out tomorrow.  

She's got spunk. I like her.

Good luck in the interview and beyond.

Sometimes I call her a spicy jalapeno.  She is very independent, confident, determined.  She isn't a people pleaser at all.  She is not externally motivated.  She is internally motivated.  She has to decide for herself to do something.  She's always been like that.  

It's a challenge trying to nurture that while still maintaining appropriate boundaries.  I told her it's her choice whether to fail or not.  I did, however, tell her she has to be polite and kind to the staff tomorrow during the exam and interview.  That point is non-negotiable.

[susana1954]

Sept 19, 2023 17:25:16 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Now with more life experience a pension and retirement at 55 sounds pretty awesome!

I am just going to address one aspect of your comment and then shut up.

Collecting a pension at 55 would be pretty awesome, but few people can afford to do it.  Tier 1 teachers here can retire after 25 years, but no one can live off 50% of their salary.  Insurance (too young for Medicare) takes a large chunk of it, and you are too young to collect Social Security.  You can't tap most retirement money without penalty.  So you find yourself still working, but not at the salary you had.  You are basically entry-level material although some go teach at private schools, etc.  But only the best of the best pay decently around here.  Most pay in the 30s for five or six preps.  And no insurance or retirement.  A lot of my friends decide it isn't worth it, particularly as the 50s are the years when most of their kids are in college.  They stay where they are, earning a better retirement.  I suspect that is true of garbage collectors, too. 

Still, it is a nice option to have.

[andi9899]

Sept 19, 2023 16:11:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

swamp (or any other attorneys here).  Why would an omnibus hearing be cancelled?  The Friday hearing for the guy accused of killing his girlfriend and hiding her body from our town was suddenly cancelled.  Not rescheduled, just cancelled. 

Maybe the inmates got ahold of him and he's no longer available for the hearing.

[TheOtherMe]

When I was in high school, my guidance counselor and I figured out my college track classes for the rest of high school.  My parents had to sign off so I took it home.  

My dad refused to sign off because I wasn't pretty and would never get married.  I had to take shorthand and typing for two periods a day, which leaves little time to take the college track classes.

I never did forgive him for that but I did go to college and get my degree and used the degree to make my living.

We had a vo-tech high school, so a lot of kids split off to attend that after 9th grade and we mostly never saw them again.  

Little did my dad know, with his secretarial dreams for me, I would have been better off at that high school.

[susana1954]

TheOtherMe, secretarial skills were considered vo-tech when I went to high school, and we are pretty much the same age.  I have always felt sorry for those who went to college to become "business teachers" back then.  Business classes were typing, shorthand, business law, and business English.  There may also have been a basic accounting course to prepare future bookkeepers.

Fast forward 20 years to the 1990s, and business teachers were expected to teach computer science courses as well as accounting.  No one took shorthand, and keyboarding was a mandatory course for 9th graders although you could test out.  A few teachers I knew couldn't make the transition.

[chiver78]

Sept 19, 2023 17:33:34 GMT -5 MarionTh230 said:

Sept 19, 2023 17:24:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

She's got spunk. I like her.

Good luck in the interview and beyond.

Sometimes I call her a spicy jalapeno.  She is very independent, confident, determined.  She isn't a people pleaser at all.  She is not externally motivated.  She is internally motivated.  She has to decide for herself to do something.  She's always been like that.  

It's a challenge trying to nurture that while still maintaining appropriate boundaries.  I told her it's her choice whether to fail or not.  I did, however, tell her she has to be polite and kind to the staff tomorrow during the exam and interview.  That point is non-negotiable.

please don't ever work to extinguish this in her. 

this is something I wish I had as a kid, because I'd have flipped off a lot of people on my way to where I am now. for good or for bad. 

[chiver78]

Sept 19, 2023 17:54:19 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

When I was in high school, my guidance counselor and I figured out my college track classes for the rest of high school.  My parents had to sign off so I took it home.  

My dad refused to sign off because I wasn't pretty and would never get married.  I had to take shorthand and typing for two periods a day, which leaves little time to take the college track classes.

I never did forgive him for that but I did go to college and get my degree and used the degree to make my living.

We had a vo-tech high school, so a lot of kids split off to attend that after 9th grade and we mostly never saw them again.  

Little did my dad know, with his secretarial dreams for me, I would have been better off at that high school.

why couldn't your mother sign off for you? 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My mom ended up on the secretary track. She became a transcriptist.

She could type over 100 wpm. I challenged her once to show how fast she could go. It was impressive.

If I tried to go that fast it would have been a bunch of random letters.

[busymom]

I was stuck at a repair garage earlier today, and was talking to the dad of the current owner.  They are SCREAMING for young men or women who want to learn the trade of repairing cars.  The biggest turn-off, or so they've been told, is that good repairmen have to go to school every year to keep up with the ever-changing technology, and some just don't want to deal with retraining.   But, the need is there, and the pay is very good.

[MarionTh230]

Sept 19, 2023 18:02:33 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 19, 2023 17:33:34 GMT -5 MarionTh230 said:

Sometimes I call her a spicy jalapeno.  She is very independent, confident, determined.  She isn't a people pleaser at all.  She is not externally motivated.  She is internally motivated.  She has to decide for herself to do something.  She's always been like that.  

It's a challenge trying to nurture that while still maintaining appropriate boundaries.  I told her it's her choice whether to fail or not.  I did, however, tell her she has to be polite and kind to the staff tomorrow during the exam and interview.  That point is non-negotiable.

please don't ever work to extinguish this in her. 

this is something I wish I had as a kid, because I'd have flipped off a lot of people on my way to where I am now. for good or for bad. 

I agree wholeheartedly.  I think the need to develop those characteristics are even greater because she is a female.  She seems to have a good sense of who she is and if that continues as she grows and matures, she will be ok in life.  

Most days, I look at parenting Kiddo as kind of like trying to influence her to "use her powers for good and not evil."  Trying to find ways to channel all that energy into positives instead of having it looked at as a negative.  It's a challenge.  But I don't want to every break her spirit so I fumble along.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 19, 2023 17:37:41 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Sept 19, 2023 17:25:16 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Now with more life experience a pension and retirement at 55 sounds pretty awesome!

I am just going to address one aspect of your comment and then shut up.

Collecting a pension at 55 would be pretty awesome, but few people can afford to do it.  Tier 1 teachers here can retire after 25 years, but no one can live off 50% of their salary.  Insurance (too young for Medicare) takes a large chunk of it, and you are too young to collect Social Security.  You can't tap most retirement money without penalty.  So you find yourself still working, but not at the salary you had.  You are basically entry-level material although some go teach at private schools, etc.  But only the best of the best pay decently around here.  Most pay in the 30s for five or six preps.  And no insurance or retirement.  A lot of my friends decide it isn't worth it, particularly as the 50s are the years when most of their kids are in college.  They stay where they are, earning a better retirement.  I suspect that is true of garbage collectors, too. 

Still, it is a nice option to have.

The corollary to many of these physical jobs under a pension (like the garbage man) is that many MUST take the pension because their bodies have broken down.  Doing the job at 22 isn’t the same thing as at 50.  So you might have a sweet pension, but it’s at the expense of your body.  

A friend of mine got out of research to teach science in the NY school system.  They were in such tremendous need of science teachers that they hired her without the rest of the teaching credentials she needed.  In her case, her kids were in school and she wanted to keep busy.  I want to say she was around 40 when she gave research a heave ho.  In reality, she would have had a 35+ mile one way commute to get a job in research, her DH was a very high earner, there was no need for her to work…..not even for benefits.  I think she lasted about 10 years.  She liked the students, but hated the parents and administration.  The administration would never back up the teachers.  I think she was pretty good at the job too, as she had a very high percentage of her students passing the Regents exams.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

So now I’m the owner of a LOT of onions.  

A neighbor came by with a 50 lb bag of onions that should have gone to TJ but she wound up getting the overflow.  So she was driving around, unloading onions from the back of her Prius.  I took maybe 10 lbs or so?  
I think I’m going to caramelize them and freeze them back to make French Onion soup later.