Rising inflation and food and other shortages causation

[Value Buy]

I wonder if anyone thinks anything of our "shortages of food and goods', as well as inflation issues is compounded by migration to the U.S. by over a million people every year adds to the problems. Note I say compunded, not created by them.
Wonder why diapers and toilet paper among other things, became a problem?
You do realize big corporations have computerized analysis of growth trends for the country, and if they miss a few hundred thousand new infants and youngsters in the mix every year, production no longer matches their incorrect projections of units sold, and shortages are created.
Same for fuel and natural gas useage. Add a several hundred thousand extra migrants merging into the system and our green house gas output goes up in this country, and surely these people use more green house gas products here in the states than they did when living in central America.
I am shocked the far left and petroleum protestors are not up in arms over this issue all by itself and is ignored by all media on the left and even by Fox News.

The food and beverage industry, including alcohol industry (beer and liquor consumption is progressing well)  as well as the petroleum industry have no problems with this as, shortages do create profit opportunities for them without being guilty of planning the shortages......

Note the large industrial complex as well as media conglomerates will voice an opinion about race issues, gender issues, social issues, but not a peep about migration issues and a wide open border.
Want to depress green house issues, inflation or shortages? Tighten up the border and control migration numbers. It will not stop the entire economic mess, but will slow it.

[billisonboard]

At the same time, not allowing migration adds to our workforce shortfalls.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

The price of crab meat will go up again because of the lack of migrant workers allowed in. 

Maryland’s crab industry is once again calling for help.



The perennial problem: As it has in most recent years, the nation’s demand for temporary foreign workers has far surpassed the visa cap set by Congress. The H-2B agricultural visa program administered by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and U.S. Department of Labor received applications for more than 130,000 workers for this summer, but its quota will only admit 33,000 people.



This year, the lottery system used to award the visas left nine out of 10 crab-picking houses on Hoopers Island entirely without H-2B workers. The Chesapeake Bay-hugging island in Dorchester County is the epicenter of Maryland’s crab-picking industry.

[Value Buy]

Apr 7, 2022 10:42:59 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

The price of crab meat will go up again because of the lack of migrant workers allowed in. 

Maryland’s crab industry is once again calling for help.



The perennial problem: As it has in most recent years, the nation’s demand for temporary foreign workers has far surpassed the visa cap set by Congress. The H-2B agricultural visa program administered by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and U.S. Department of Labor received applications for more than 130,000 workers for this summer, but its quota will only admit 33,000 people.



This year, the lottery system used to award the visas left nine out of 10 crab-picking houses on Hoopers Island entirely without H-2B workers. The Chesapeake Bay-hugging island in Dorchester County is the epicenter of Maryland’s crab-picking industry.

The lack of migrant workers? Maybe the lack of migrant crab harvesters, but there are plenty of migrants. Of course many are not "workers" if you do not count the kids. 

[wvugurl26]

I think for any meaningful tightening up to happen, the whole system needs an overhaul. No one wants to do that. They want to stop the influx but they don't want to admit the current broken system contributes to the influx.

[pulmonarymd]

Sure, probably. But the only reason the US population is rising is due to immigration. Imagine the worker shortage without it

[Tiny]

I wonder if anyone thinks anything of our "shortages of food and goods', as well as inflation issues is compounded by migration to the U.S. by over a million people every year adds to the problems. Note I say compunded, not created by them.

No. I don't think "shortages of food and goods" is compounded by migration.

If this was true - we'd see even MORE people living in tent cities (I assume the migrants are able to find a place to live).

America has 330,000,000 MILLION people. Another million or two that trickle in over time isn't going to matter when it comes to shortages.


What you are suggesting sounds a little bit like this:

My family is prolific (got a hundred relatives spread out across many states).
When we have our yearly Family reunion and my relatives descend like locust in my area - this causes gas shortages and food shortages in my area. They use up all the local hotel rooms, too. In fact, my city requires me to give them 12 months notice of when the Reunion will be so they can inform the local populace so NO OTHER events that bring in people are scheduled at the same time and so everyone has enough time to "stock up" on food/gas/whatever so the two weeks when my Locust family is in town - no who lives here goes without.


If you live in a place where the addition of 5 of 10 people will cause shortages or hunger - then maybe "migration" is compounding the problem. And boy, this makes me think of a "subsistence living" place - gosh a 'natural disaster' like a tornado or a flood could END the place you live... - and why do you still live there Move to someplace better!!! This is AMERICA pull yourself up by your bootstraps!! <-- sorry... I had to go there.

In America supposedly the richest nation that consumes and throws away more food and consumer goods than the rest of the world. Shouldn't there be wide spread hunger, people living in the streets, gas shortages to the point that people do NOT drive at all, rationing of electric power in America?

I live in a densely populated urban area. me and my 6 million nieghbors are not at the point where adding additional people will make all our lives "worse".

Immigration isn't compounding inflation or whatever "shortages" people are seeing.

(lets NOT forget there's over 1 million fewer people consuming in America thanks to Covid19... )

[Tiny]

So, I'm estimating here... lets say 1 million people per year arrive in America.

At a high level - that's each State needing to accommodate 20K more people every year.   I'm sure that's an incredible hardship/strain on every State.     

[Tennesseer]

"Wonder why diapers and toilet paper among other things, became a problem?"

Hoarding by citizens and legal residents.

[Tiny]

Apr 7, 2022 9:55:24 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

You do realize big corporations have computerized analysis of growth trends for the country, and if they miss a few hundred thousand new infants and youngsters in the mix every year, production no longer matches their incorrect projections of units sold, and shortages are created.
Same for fuel and natural gas useage. Add a several hundred thousand extra migrants merging into the system and our green house gas output goes up in this country, and surely these people use more green house gas products here in the states than they did when living in central America.
I am shocked the far left and petroleum protestors are not up in arms over this issue all by itself and is ignored by all media on the left and even by Fox News.

The food and beverage industry, including alcohol industry (beer and liquor consumption is progressing well)  as well as the petroleum industry have no problems with this as, shortages do create profit opportunities for them without being guilty of planning the shortages......

Note the large industrial complex as well as media conglomerates will voice an opinion about race issues, gender issues, social issues, but not a peep about migration issues and a wide open border.
Want to depress green house issues, inflation or shortages? Tighten up the border and control migration numbers. It will not stop the entire economic mess, but will slow it. 

Absolutely!! American businesses ONLY plan out, what 30 days? ok, maybe 90 days. Why would they have 1,2,3, 4, 5 year plans? Or bother thinking about how their business needs to grow and change over a 5,10,20 year period.

My employer is so silly - they spent 10 years in total from start to finish on a project to replace their "business" software -- that effects ALL of their employees around the world. I'm sure they could have accomplished this over a weekend - from deciding what software/applications were the best replacement to buying it to get it installed. I'm sure training 5000 people on how to use it would take what? an hour on a Monday morning.     <-- sarcasm there big heaping mountains of it.... 

If you believe big companies (and small companies and business)  in America aren't looking at projections for their business going out into the future (which would include the 1 million a year new immigrants) and making decisions today that will effect their business 2 or 5 or 10 years from now (to MEET the requirements/goals they have set for 10 years out) ... I'm kind of speechless.... you live in some weird place that I have trouble imagining exists.  

Isn't that what Capitalism is all about    Looking to the future and meeting demand 

[bean29]

I am pretty sure the birth rate is lower than expected due to the pandemic, and I think the formula shortages were due to some kind of contamination of the milk.  I really doubt people are hoarding diapers because kids grow at different rates, and you would not know how many of what size you were going to need.

I am sure we can improve immigration, but there does not seem to be a will on the part of both parties to resolve anything.  I really think we are not doing enough for the people from the Ukraine either.  5 million people are displaced and we have taken something like 33,000?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

JIT has a lot to do with the current shortages.  Under normal circumstances, it works ok.  However, the last 2 years have exacerbated the problems we are currently seeing.  

www.investopedia.com/terms/j/jit.asp

[djAdvocate]

regression to the mean.
decades of 2% inflation when the historical average is 3.5% means that we are way behind.  particularly after 2020, when inflation was less than 2%.

part of me wants to just say grow up.  but since many people who are just entering the workforce don't know the history, i would ask them to become familiar with it.

[Value Buy]

Apr 8, 2022 3:44:27 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

regression to the mean.
decades of 2% inflation when the historical average is 3.5% means that we are way behind.  particularly after 2020, when inflation was less than 2%.

part of me wants to just say grow up.  but since many people who are just entering the workforce don't know the history, i would ask them to become familiar with it.

I admit there is validity to what you stated.
How about the fact we listened to "experts" tell us for over a decade computer efficiency used for automation and AI advances wiped out inflation and increased productivity, and yet in one year everything collapsed.
Now it is Putin inflation, evil meat processors, and of course oil companies that did it.
Government and the Fed had nothing to do with it.
A year ago the Fed told us inflation was needed in the economy and their agenda was pushed for it to occur, and eight months ago it was only transitory.

Idiots.

[Opti]

Apr 7, 2022 14:44:21 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Apr 7, 2022 9:55:24 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

You do realize big corporations have computerized analysis of growth trends for the country, and if they miss a few hundred thousand new infants and youngsters in the mix every year, production no longer matches their incorrect projections of units sold, and shortages are created.
Same for fuel and natural gas useage. Add a several hundred thousand extra migrants merging into the system and our green house gas output goes up in this country, and surely these people use more green house gas products here in the states than they did when living in central America.
I am shocked the far left and petroleum protestors are not up in arms over this issue all by itself and is ignored by all media on the left and even by Fox News.

The food and beverage industry, including alcohol industry (beer and liquor consumption is progressing well)  as well as the petroleum industry have no problems with this as, shortages do create profit opportunities for them without being guilty of planning the shortages......

Note the large industrial complex as well as media conglomerates will voice an opinion about race issues, gender issues, social issues, but not a peep about migration issues and a wide open border.
Want to depress green house issues, inflation or shortages? Tighten up the border and control migration numbers. It will not stop the entire economic mess, but will slow it. 

Absolutely!! American businesses ONLY plan out, what 30 days? ok, maybe 90 days. Why would they have 1,2,3, 4, 5 year plans? Or bother thinking about how their business needs to grow and change over a 5,10,20 year period.

My employer is so silly - they spent 10 years in total from start to finish on a project to replace their "business" software -- that effects ALL of their employees around the world. I'm sure they could have accomplished this over a weekend - from deciding what software/applications were the best replacement to buying it to get it installed. I'm sure training 5000 people on how to use it would take what? an hour on a Monday morning.     <-- sarcasm there big heaping mountains of it.... 

If you believe big companies (and small companies and business)  in America aren't looking at projections for their business going out into the future (which would include the 1 million a year new immigrants) and making decisions today that will effect their business 2 or 5 or 10 years from now (to MEET the requirements/goals they have set for 10 years out) ... I'm kind of speechless.... you live in some weird place that I have trouble imagining exists.  

Isn't that what Capitalism is all about    Looking to the future and meeting demand 

VB believes this is how it works. I do not know how it works, but it seems to me he cannot be correct. There are many diaper manufacturers, and most are not direct suppliers. Therefore, they are are managing demand requests from stores and middlemen. When there is an increase in demand, they don't know for certain how much of that demand is going to be theirs until it is. 

Immigration has been happening for years, legal and illegal. Really we should believe no one in consumer products has made allowances for that? The pandemic affected the workforce which affected how much product could be created, transported, and sold. Hence supply chain disruptions. Simple. Unless of course you are looking for new things to pin on illegal immigrants. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 7, 2022 14:57:16 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I am pretty sure the birth rate is lower than expected due to the pandemic, and I think the formula shortages were due to some kind of contamination of the milk.  I really doubt people are hoarding diapers because kids grow at different rates, and you would not know how many of what size you were going to need.

I am sure we can improve immigration, but there does not seem to be a will on the part of both parties to resolve anything.  I really think we are not doing enough for the people from the Ukraine either.  5 million people are displaced and we have taken something like 33,000?

Diapers use a lot of plastic and petroleum in production.  There is a shortage of both right now.

Wild idea but MAYBE instead of constantly chanting 'MERICA! we should have started looking a lot sooner into moving away from a largely petroleum based economy.  I am aware that is happening in a lot of businesses right now but it's going to be slow.  The pandemic sped things up and ripped the curtain off.  We haven't really evolved past the Industrial Revolution.

And it's only going to keep getting worse. We need a second industrial revolution and instead we've been focused on trying to drag the country back into 1950.  That is 100% on our leaders who are in lobbyists pockets and the people who vote for them in hopes of having the "good old days" return.

[Opti]

Apr 8, 2022 9:01:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Apr 7, 2022 14:57:16 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I am pretty sure the birth rate is lower than expected due to the pandemic, and I think the formula shortages were due to some kind of contamination of the milk.  I really doubt people are hoarding diapers because kids grow at different rates, and you would not know how many of what size you were going to need.

I am sure we can improve immigration, but there does not seem to be a will on the part of both parties to resolve anything.  I really think we are not doing enough for the people from the Ukraine either.  5 million people are displaced and we have taken something like 33,000?

Diapers use a lot of plastic and petroleum in production.  There is a shortage of both right now.

Wild idea but MAYBE instead of constantly chanting 'MERICA! we should have started looking a lot sooner into moving away from a largely petroleum based economy.  I am aware that is happening in a lot of businesses right now but it's going to be slow.  The pandemic sped things up and ripped the curtain off.  We haven't really evolved past the Industrial Revolution.

And it's only going to keep getting worse. We need a second industrial revolution and instead we've been focused on trying to drag the country back into 1950.  That is 100% on our leaders who are in lobbyists pockets and the people who vote for them in hopes of having the "good old days" return.

I think you should have put the word some in there. I'm not going to ignore the tax breaks for electric and hybrid vehicles which are evidence some are planning for the future.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 8, 2022 9:19:05 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 8, 2022 9:01:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Diapers use a lot of plastic and petroleum in production.  There is a shortage of both right now.

Wild idea but MAYBE instead of constantly chanting 'MERICA! we should have started looking a lot sooner into moving away from a largely petroleum based economy.  I am aware that is happening in a lot of businesses right now but it's going to be slow.  The pandemic sped things up and ripped the curtain off.  We haven't really evolved past the Industrial Revolution.

And it's only going to keep getting worse. We need a second industrial revolution and instead we've been focused on trying to drag the country back into 1950.  That is 100% on our leaders who are in lobbyists pockets and the people who vote for them in hopes of having the "good old days" return.

I think you should have put the word some in there. I'm not going to ignore the tax breaks for electric and hybrid vehicles which are evidence some are planning for the future.

If 50% of the people in ANYONE’S neighborhood had electric cars, the power grid cannot handle this kind of upsurge.  There needs to be a hell of a lot more investment in infrastructure before electric cars become the norm.  That’s not happening.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 8, 2022 10:03:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 8, 2022 9:19:05 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think you should have put the word some in there. I'm not going to ignore the tax breaks for electric and hybrid vehicles which are evidence some are planning for the future.

If 50% of the people in ANYONE’S neighborhood had electric cars, the power grid cannot handle this kind of upsurge.  There needs to be a hell of a lot more investment in infrastructure before electric cars become the norm.  That’s not happening.  

And while it is great that the newest one can go 350 miles before charging that still means at 350 miles I need to be near a charging station.  There are not nearly enough charging stations in the country to make switching to electric worth it.  I'd still need a hybrid or gas powered vehicle for anything that would involve travel more than 350 miles.

Elon Musk cannot single handedly create an electric car friendly world.  There is going to need to be investment on the government level for that and more than just a personal tax break for me switching.  You're going to need to give incentive to current gas station owners and new ones to build charging stations and convince them they will make money off it.

We have FIVE, FIVE total charging stations in my city.  That is not nearly enough for everyone to go electric.  And they are for Teslas.  I have no idea if they are model specific but I am going to hazard a guess that at the moment a new Hundai isn't going to be able to be charged at a Tesla unit.  We're pretty far away from universal charging stations.

That's not happening and it likely won't because the oil and gas lobby own our politicians and have convinced us we need to "think about the job loss!".  Guess what oil and gas are finite so those jobs are going to disappear anyhow.  New jobs can be created in the electric world if we'd get out of our own way.  Trump gutted the programs in coal country for training people in renewable energy.  How is that helping?  Even the coal industry is starting to get on Manchin's ass about his refusal to sign the Green Deal.

[Opti]

Apr 8, 2022 10:03:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 8, 2022 9:19:05 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think you should have put the word some in there. I'm not going to ignore the tax breaks for electric and hybrid vehicles which are evidence some are planning for the future.

If 50% of the people in ANYONE’S neighborhood had electric cars, the power grid cannot handle this kind of upsurge.  There needs to be a hell of a lot more investment in infrastructure before electric cars become the norm.  That’s not happening.  
yet

Its happening slowly. And for the obvious reason electric cars are still a minority of vehicles being sold. Per Google, roughly 17 million passenger vehicles are sold per year.  322,422 electric car sales in 2020.

www.chargedfuture.com/us-electric-car-sales-in-2020/

I don't know what the tipping point will be. I think if you can afford an electric vehicle you should put in a charging station at home if at all possible. There are charging stations here at the library and Target. Things will scale up, but probably in pace with what's being sold.

usafacts.org/articles/how-many-electric-cars-in-united-states/

Just under 5.4 million hybrid electric cars have sold in the United States as of 2019 — comprising 1.6% of all 333 million new light-duty vehicle sales between 1999 and 2019.

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2022 10:13:05 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:03:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

If 50% of the people in ANYONE’S neighborhood had electric cars, the power grid cannot handle this kind of upsurge.  There needs to be a hell of a lot more investment in infrastructure before electric cars become the norm.  That’s not happening.  

And while it is great that the newest one can go 350 miles before charging that still means at 350 miles I need to be near a charging station.  There are not nearly enough charging stations in the country to make switching to electric worth it.  I'd still need a hybrid or gas powered vehicle for anything that would involve travel more than 350 miles.

Elon Musk cannot single handedly create an electric car friendly world.  There is going to need to be investment on the government level for that and more than just a personal tax break for me switching.  You're going to need to give incentive to current gas station owners and new ones to build charging stations and convince them they will make money off it.

We have FIVE, FIVE total charging stations in my city.  That is not nearly enough for everyone to go electric.  And they are for Teslas.  I have no idea if they are model specific but I am going to hazard a guess that at the moment a new Hundai isn't going to be able to be charged at a Tesla unit.  We're pretty far away from universal charging stations.

That's not happening and it likely won't because the oil and gas lobby own our politicians and have convinced us we need to "think about the job loss!".  Guess what oil and gas are finite so those jobs are going to disappear anyhow.  New jobs can be created in the electric world if we'd get out of our own way.  Trump gutted the programs in coal country for training people in renewable energy.  How is that helping?  Even the coal industry is starting to get on Manchin's ass about his refusal to sign the Green Deal.

How often in a year do individuals take a driving trip that is over 150 miles out? What alternatives are there for not using a personal vehicle when they do? They exist.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 8, 2022 10:29:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:03:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

If 50% of the people in ANYONE’S neighborhood had electric cars, the power grid cannot handle this kind of upsurge.  There needs to be a hell of a lot more investment in infrastructure before electric cars become the norm.  That’s not happening.  
yet

Its happening slowly. And for the obvious reason electric cars are still a minority of vehicles being sold. Per Google, roughly 17 million passenger vehicles are sold per year.  322,422 electric car sales in 2020.

www.chargedfuture.com/us-electric-car-sales-in-2020/

I don't know what the tipping point will be. I think if you can afford an electric vehicle you should put in a charging station at home if at all possible. There are charging stations here at the library and Target. Things will scale up, but probably in pace with what's being sold.

usafacts.org/articles/how-many-electric-cars-in-united-states/

Just under 5.4 million hybrid electric cars have sold in the United States as of 2019 — comprising 1.6% of all 333 million new light-duty vehicle sales between 1999 and 2019.

That’s not the point.  If I have a electric vehicle and stay west of the Cascades, I’m good.  Once you get to the big Midwest, there are VERY limited options.  When we drove from NY to WA, I was making a mental note of them.  I did so again when we drove to Calgary last month.  Last month, we stopped at a shopping mall (where you’d normally see charging stations west of the Cascades) for dinner.  We had to drive around a few times looking for the restaurant.  There were NO places to charge…..and this was in Spokane, in a very large mall.

It’s not a matter of having a charging station at home.  It’s the fact that the car has limited mileage and the cost and energy to support an expensive vehicle that has limited use.  

The access you and I see on the coasts are NOTHING like what 3/4 of the country has.  

The other point that I made was that our power grid as it currently exists cannot support the presence of even 50% of an area having electric cars.  There is nothing being done to the electric infrastructure.  Right now, a good heat wave is sufficient to take down a power grid.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 8, 2022 10:35:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:13:05 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

And while it is great that the newest one can go 350 miles before charging that still means at 350 miles I need to be near a charging station.  There are not nearly enough charging stations in the country to make switching to electric worth it.  I'd still need a hybrid or gas powered vehicle for anything that would involve travel more than 350 miles.

Elon Musk cannot single handedly create an electric car friendly world.  There is going to need to be investment on the government level for that and more than just a personal tax break for me switching.  You're going to need to give incentive to current gas station owners and new ones to build charging stations and convince them they will make money off it.

We have FIVE, FIVE total charging stations in my city.  That is not nearly enough for everyone to go electric.  And they are for Teslas.  I have no idea if they are model specific but I am going to hazard a guess that at the moment a new Hundai isn't going to be able to be charged at a Tesla unit.  We're pretty far away from universal charging stations.

That's not happening and it likely won't because the oil and gas lobby own our politicians and have convinced us we need to "think about the job loss!".  Guess what oil and gas are finite so those jobs are going to disappear anyhow.  New jobs can be created in the electric world if we'd get out of our own way.  Trump gutted the programs in coal country for training people in renewable energy.  How is that helping?  Even the coal industry is starting to get on Manchin's ass about his refusal to sign the Green Deal.

How often in a year do individuals take a driving trip that is over 150 miles out? What alternatives are there for not using a personal vehicle when they do? They exist.

About weekly here, if not more.  Alternatives include renting a gas powered car, if you can get one.  As we go across the border regularly, then we are then dealing with taking a rental into Canada.  

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2022 10:03:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 8, 2022 9:19:05 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think you should have put the word some in there. I'm not going to ignore the tax breaks for electric and hybrid vehicles which are evidence some are planning for the future.

If 50% of the people in ANYONE’S neighborhood had electric cars, the power grid cannot handle this kind of upsurge.  There needs to be a hell of a lot more investment in infrastructure before electric cars become the norm.  That’s not happening.  

Of course it couldn't happen in a most places, but it seems a place like Hawaii could be close to all electric between solar and island driving distances.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 8, 2022 10:51:22 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:03:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

If 50% of the people in ANYONE’S neighborhood had electric cars, the power grid cannot handle this kind of upsurge.  There needs to be a hell of a lot more investment in infrastructure before electric cars become the norm.  That’s not happening.  

Of course it couldn't happen in a most places, but it seems a place like Hawaii could be close to all electric between solar and island driving distances.

It still doesn’t deal with the fact that the power grid as it currently exists cannot support 50% of the households charging cars.  

ETA….when we were in Calgary, I was listening to the discussion going on between 3 engineers highly involved in the energy sector as to how things currently exist.  Right now, any sort of major draw on the electric grid cause rolling blackouts, and these are usually short periods of time during extreme shifts in weather.  Add more and more cars needing to be charged and you should be able to see problems that are not being addressed.  They are not.

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2022 10:51:17 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:35:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

How often in a year do individuals take a driving trip that is over 150 miles out? What alternatives are there for not using a personal vehicle when they do? They exist.

About weekly here, if not more.  Alternatives include renting a gas powered car, if you can get one.  As we go across the border regularly, then we are then dealing with taking a rental into Canada.  

And is your driving experience similar to most, many, some, few? Do you only possess the one vehicle? If not, how often are two longer distance vehicles needed at the same time?

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2022 10:56:11 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:51:22 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Of course it couldn't happen in a most places, but it seems a place like Hawaii could be close to all electric between solar and island driving distances.

It still doesn’t deal with the fact that the power grid as it currently exists cannot support 50% of the households charging cars.  

True. Oh well. Fuck it, we are screwed.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 8, 2022 10:58:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2022 10:51:17 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

About weekly here, if not more.  Alternatives include renting a gas powered car, if you can get one.  As we go across the border regularly, then we are then dealing with taking a rental into Canada.  

And is your driving experience similar to most, many, some, few? Do you only possess the one vehicle? If not, how often are two longer distance vehicles needed at the same time?

I have no idea what others do.  That’s their life, not mine.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't think anyone said fuck it.  I said and I believe Mich said if we want to go at a pace where it may actually end up making a difference the government needs to get involved and speed up the process. 

Elon Musk cannot single handedly save the planet despite what his ego tells him.

Until all that happens people are going to have to deal with the issues that are arising from the fact we can no longer ignore that a fossil fuel driven economy is becoming untenable.  This was always going to happen eventually.  Nobody counted on a pandemic coming along and hurrying it along.

The fact that anyone is shocked about the current state of things amazes me.  They have been predicting some of this stuff since I was in HS.   It's on us that we buried our heads in the sand and elected people who encouraged us to continue to do so.

Even the coal miners lobby sees the writing on the wall and has been getting on Machin's ass.  Is coal going anywhere tomorrow?  No but they are aware the day is coming and want the government to get it's behind in gear.  Visionary business men and local means only go far, there needs to be action on the federal level.  Instead both sides of the aisle use that area of the country as political pawns.

We could be so much farther ahead if we just admitted that shit ain't working and we're not the best of the best instead of electing people determined to keep us grounded in the past.

[Opti]

I agree the power grid needs updating. It won't be quick and will require the will and politics to do so. And I agree an electric only vehicle would not be my choice now if I did long trips to places unlikely to have charging stations. We are just in the beginning of the adoption curve when it comes to electric only vehicles. Things will change as we get further along.