Should The Dad Be Outraged?

[NoNamePerson]

You will not make $60,000 a year right out of school  Well, 3/4 of them are going to be soooo disappointed since they have been lead to believe that they should/will start there even at flipping hamburger jobs. They deserve it just because no one should make less.

This list sounds like something the father gave to the daughter and just made up employee story to get on internet. This list has made the rounds years ago online.

He said he published it after his daughter left so it wouldn't reflect badly on her but did he think for one minute that the "phantom" employer might think some employee still there posted it. Not buying into the story but that's just me. His 3 seconds of  Twitter fame.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 26, 2022 15:50:51 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Mar 26, 2022 13:28:15 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

These aren't actual rules.  I have no problem with these words of advice in general.  Being handed them as related to a job is kind of presumptuous,  though.

Agreed. That's more a list of life lessons. I could see it hanging on a bulletin board in the break room, rather than a first day hand out, however.

No outrage from me, nor do I understand why *anyone* would be upset. If my son had come home with something like that, I'd have told him it's all true and that though he might struggle with it at times, he does need to learn that life as a grownup is going to suck sometimes. Put your big girl/boy panties on and deal with it.

I would argue that you can give that message if you want as a parent, but that a boss has no right to do so - and that employees have every right to not be subjected to that.

So if you need to warn your kid that sometimes adult life can suck - that's great - seems like he's had a pretty sweet life so far. Many teens may not have, and yet they also need jobs. Maybe even more so than kids with a charmed life.

Consider the effect of receiving this at your first day of your first job for teens who are depressed, have eating disorders, are being terribly bullied, have a history of sexual abuse/rape, physically abused or in a home with spousal abuse, are neurodivergent, or struggling in a host of different ways too many to mention.

No you don't know anyone's history or troubles as an employer, which is why you keep work professional and respectful. The focus should be on what the work entails, what are the rresponsibilities and then manage them on that if they fall short. If they can't get, you fire them. Handing them this silly list is not at all going to make anyone do a better job and in fact, it may make some people do worse, I would think.

Walking into a job with a boss that tells you stright up you don't get to have self esteem, you aren't to raise concerns, and that they don't care about fairness? that is demeaning and demoralizing.

And I'm pretty sure if anyone here got a similar message in their grownup job, they'd be complaining their asses off about. And I'm not talking about being handed this silly list. If you brought a concern about equity to you boss - like you were being paid less than others and doing more and higher level work than they were and boss just said 'life ain't fair' is anyone here really going to say to themselves - yeah - that's right, life ain't fair and just go back to work? I don't think so. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 26, 2022 16:24:32 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

You will not make $60,000 a year right out of school  Well, 3/4 of them are going to be soooo disappointed since they have been lead to believe that they should/will start there even at flipping hamburger jobs. They deserve it just because no one should make less.

This list sounds like something the father gave to the daughter and just made up employee story to get on internet. This list has made the rounds years ago online.

He said he published it after his daughter left so it wouldn't reflect badly on her but did he think for one minute that the "phantom" employer might think some employee still there posted it. Not buying into the story but that's just me. His 3 seconds of  Twitter fame.

I'd prefer if this were made up than think some jack a mole abused his authority this way!

Maybe dad is secret proponent of the "rules"? His way to get them out there....

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't disagree with the list in general but like Rukh agree this is not appropriate from a boss. The only reason no one is seeing a problem is the employee is 16.

Would you be cool as an adult with your boss handing you this?

Having had prolly more than my fair share toxic bosses this raises a million flags. I'd be encouraging my kid to look elsewhere.

The fact your boss is handing these out is code for how he treats his people. Nobody not even a 16 year old kid needs to put up with that.

[buystoys]

Mar 26, 2022 15:06:32 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 26, 2022 15:01:27 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Well, by handing it out on her first day at the job, he gave her notice of his expectations.  That's a fair thing if you think about it.  She could choose to stay or go based on those listed expectations, which is more than many managers give you.

what expectation is listed?

besides be expected to be treated with no respect and no leadership because I don't want to hear a word you have to say about anything? 

You hit the nail on the head.  It's fair that he gave her that notice the first day instead of letting her learn that on her own over time.  She could make her choice quickly or slowly which is more than many managers give you.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 26, 2022 16:52:52 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I don't disagree with the list in general but like Rukh agree this is not appropriate from a boss. The only reason no one is seeing a problem is the employee is 16.

Would you be cool as an adult with your boss handing you this?

Having had prolly more than my fair share toxic bosses this raises a million flags. I'd be encouraging my kid to look elsewhere.

The fact your boss is handing these out is code for how he treats his people. Nobody not even a 16 year old kid needs to put up with that.

I think you're right about age being a factor here.

[moon/Laura]

Mar 26, 2022 16:24:33 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 26, 2022 15:50:51 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Agreed. That's more a list of life lessons. I could see it hanging on a bulletin board in the break room, rather than a first day hand out, however.

No outrage from me, nor do I understand why *anyone* would be upset. If my son had come home with something like that, I'd have told him it's all true and that though he might struggle with it at times, he does need to learn that life as a grownup is going to suck sometimes. Put your big girl/boy panties on and deal with it.

I would argue that you can give that message if you want as a parent, but that a boss has no right to do so - and that employees have every right to not be subjected to that.

So if you need to warn your kid that sometimes adult life can suck - that's great - seems like he's had a pretty sweet life so far. Many teens may not have, and yet they also need jobs. Maybe even more so than kids with a charmed life.

Consider the effect of receiving this at your first day of your first job for teens who are depressed, have eating disorders, are being terribly bullied, have a history of sexual abuse/rape, physically abused or in a home with spousal abuse, are neurodivergent, or struggling in a host of different ways too many to mention.

No you don't know anyone's history or troubles as an employer, which is why you keep work professional and respectful. The focus should be on what the work entails, what are the rresponsibilities and then manage them on that if they fall short. If they can't get, you fire them. Handing them this silly list is not at all going to make anyone do a better job and in fact, it may make some people do worse, I would think.

Walking into a job with a boss that tells you stright up you don't get to have self esteem, you aren't to raise concerns, and that they don't care about fairness? that is demeaning and demoralizing.

And I'm pretty sure if anyone here got a similar message in their grownup job, they'd be complaining their asses off about. And I'm not talking about being handed this silly list. If you brought a concern about equity to you boss - like you were being paid less than others and doing more and higher level work than they were and boss just said 'life ain't fair' is anyone here really going to say to themselves - yeah - that's right, life ain't fair and just go back to work? I don't think so. 

1. Which is why I said that I could see it in the break room rather than a first day handout. So I'm not saying that it was ok to give it to her. I'm saying it contains life truths - not rules of employment. They're not even guidelines for that specific job.
2. That's not what it says. It says that the employee shouldn't expect others to worry about whether their feelings get hurt. Again, in life, not at that job specifically.
3. Where does it say raising concerns aren't allowed?
4. It doesn't say that, either. You're interpreting 'life isn't fair' way too broadly, imo.

As to my son's 'pretty sweet life', yes, he's had it easier than many. Not financially better, but we still didn't make him go get a job at 16 like we had to do. We preferred he focus on school. Then he graduated right at the beginning of covid and again, we didn't force him to go get a job until things were more stable and he'd been vaxxed. But you know what? The 'life isn't fair' concept, as well as some of the other basics on that list were discussed while he was in school! He'd whine about how hard some of his homework was and 'I don't know what to do/how to do it" and I'd tell him that he needed to READ THE DIRECTIONS and figure it out because his future bosses weren't going to be holding his hand and telling him how (once training was complete). I realize that that scenario is a bit different, but the net result is the same - the understanding that you need to learn to stand on your own 2 feet and that you'll probably get your feelings hurt more than once along the way. That's not going to be easy on the teens with mental health issues as you say, but that's where the parent(s) need to discuss coping strategies with them. Nowhere does it say that they should expect that specific boss to treat them badly though, or not listen to their concerns.

[teen persuasion]

Mar 26, 2022 13:09:35 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

The boss’ list is a bit overboard, but it is not off the mark for some, maybe many, self absorbed teenagers or young adults.  I have a nephew, when looking for his first job, who thought he had the skill set to be a manager.  I think rule #3 applied to the nephew.  Then there was the cousin who was about to complete a Masters in Library Science.  He thought a newly minted Masters would entitle him to a salary that was 25% more than I was earning as the Controller for a $300 million manufacturing operation with 20 years of industry experience.  Cousin, see rule #3.

The fact that the parent was outraged over the boss’ list makes me suspect that Mom and Dad have not taught any of these facts of life to their child.

When I was working, I loved to interview young folks who grew up in small towns for entry level, or near entry level positions.  I usually found out that these candidates had held summer, or even year around jobs.  And that they had worked to pay for a portion of their college education.  Often times, these young folks had been shift or crew leaders.  If they had worked in a family business, even better.  Children who worked in a family business are likely to know what it is like to work in an environment where the expectations for their behavior and performance was higher than for any other employee (life’s not fair).  If you hired one of these folks, it was unlikely they would call in sick Monday morning because they were worn out from a weekend of too much fun.  They understood what it meant to hold a job and to work.  I’m not convinced that the child of the outraged parent would have a similar work ethic.

Wait, no one told him library workers are seriously underpaid?  

That MLS *might* make him eligible for a 19 hr/week position (nights and weekends mandatory) at barely above min wage.  Zero benefits.  Car required, because outreach is part of the duties.

Salary?  Ha, hourly is more likely, with no paid holidays.  You don't work, you don't get paid.  Maybe the director is salaried, but still underpaid because budgets are shoestring, and prone to getting chopped by politicians. And of course, there's the pink collar effect on payscale

[raeoflyte]

Wasn't anyone else here a stupid teen who managed to get a job? Overall I think I was a fairly "good" kid, and certainly worked hard. I got my first job at 14 and worked that and school, or had 2 jobs during breaks until I graduated.

But I still have a few absolutely mortifying moments from those years. I think this thread is what will push me to finally write a note card to my first boss. She was a little intimidating but was a fabulous boss and actually taught me how to do things correctly when I messed up. She didn't allow the adult employees to bully the dumb teens either.

Kids today aren't any lazier than previous generations. But kids aren't born knowing how to act in every single situation. I hope my kids land a job like I had and will definitely encourage them not to work for assholes if they have any other options.

[raeoflyte]

I'll add that I didn't have those mortifying moments because I didn't understand the truths of life. I knew life wasn't fair and didn't expect the rules to be different just for me.

It really comes down to respect. Do you respect your (teen) employees or do you think they are beneath you. This boss looks to fall into the latter group.

[giramomma]

Mar 27, 2022 8:38:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Wasn't anyone else here a stupid teen who managed to get a job? Overall I think I was a fairly "good" kid, and certainly worked hard. I got my first job at 14 and worked that and school, or had 2 jobs during breaks until I graduated.

In my parts it's own the poor and the lower middle class that do things like have their kids get jobs. Not regular middle class and above.  Of course there are exceptions, like us. And I had a coworker that required her kids to have a job to help pay for car insurance, etc. Oh, and DS had a friend that had to get a job. He was also expected to turn his paycheck over to his parents and they put the money away for college.

I was not allowed to get a job, even well into college. I was allowed to work the summer before college and the summer after freshman year. Anything else, and I had to ask permission. The first job I had, I taught 8 hours a semester. My mother was upset with me for that.

ETA: I don't think kids are lazy. It's a function of what parents are willing to provide. I think it's a function of folks mostly having smaller families now, so that they can give their kids more.

And raising a child IS different now than it was when I was growing up. No sense in comparing things most of the time.

And, I think it all just depends on how things are presented.

Let's say you are a family that makes enough to hire out house cleaners AND lawn care. There's a difference in how you present that to your kids. One way is " I work a demanding, high level job. That gives me more income to choose how I want to spend my non-working time. I want to spend it with you and doing abc. Therefore, we have chosen to spend the money on house cleaners and lawn care."

That's a whole lot different than a parent saying "Yeah, I'm not spending my time cleaning toilets. I work too hard for that."

Which do you think parents say, and which one gives the appearance that cleaning toilets is beneath them?

It's also very sobering to hear college kids weigh in on whether or not they should give up apartments with maid service.

I knew life was unfair. But I also have a pretty unfair life.

My kids *think* they know what unfair is. They have not had an unfair life.

[raeoflyte]

Mar 26, 2022 15:27:33 GMT -5 giramomma said:

That wouldn't bother me. But, also we raise our kids with a lot of those notions. TBH, I feel like we go against the grain all the time.

My son has worked in a grocery store for two years, now. He has absolutely come home saying "This is fair, that's not fair." That absolutely is relevant to his job duties. His job duties, got changed, because of other employee's screw ups. Is it "Fair" to DS? No. But, his employer's first allegience is to the bottom line, NOT to making sure that DS has warm fuzzies about his job all the time.

He also has been smart enough to know when to keep his mouth shut about it. Because thems is the rules, and if he doesn't like it, he's free to find a different employer.

My son also goes to one of those schools that will give kids 2342342 chances to pass a class. Kids also can't get lower than a 50% on any assessment...even if they actually did get a 30 or 40%.

How many of us will work at a job that says "You did unacceptable work? No problem! We'll make sure that you are noted as doing average job on your evaluations!"

Do you know how many conversations I had with my son from 14-16 that reminded him that HE was responsible for his own choices and behavior?

I'm not foolish enough to think that every parent has those conversations with their kids.

You have an older kid and interact with more parents than I do with your teaching, but I feel like we have almost polar opposite experiences.

My kids aren't there yet, but I have friends and coworkers with older kids who have struggled and none of them focus on how perfect their little angel is or that the school/boss/world is against them.

With the parents of younger kids I feel like everyone is trying to prep their kids to work hard - sometimes too hard. There's no need to kill yourself to get a+ on every 6th grade assignment. If you understand the topic, go for good enough sometimes! But learning how to work in the system you've got seems to be everyone's goal. Ds advocates for himself 1000x better than I ever did or could. I don't think that's because I'm an awesome parent, but because of how the system works.

[Lizard Queen]

I wasn't able to get a job until after I graduated high school. I remember being treated like crap in those first minimum wage jobs. There was definite unfairness in those jobs. That list of "rules" is nothing to be enraged about. As an adult, it might be, WTF, but teens are still learning.

When you get enraged over every little slight, it takes away from the times when everyone should be enraged by something.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't have to be enraged to know I have the life experience my kid doesn't and recognize a red flag from an employer when I see one.

Why do we need to accept that being treated like crap is part of your dues? That as a teenager you aren't worthy of respect and being treated as a human rather than an automaton?

If that system was really as efficient and work ethic building as we claim on here why are we seeing people leave those jobs in droves?

I know the popular adage is because everyone is lazy but is it really?

I'd be having a long talk with my daughters about this list and what that says about the employer and how they will be treated.

It's up to them if they want to keep the job but looking elsewhere is fine too.

If raising my kids to expect employers to treat them like people who have a brain is raising snowflakes I'm cool with that.

The system never changes if we refuse to recognize it's messed up and insist our kids suffer too because misery loves company.

I've spent a lot of my working life being treated bad because I was taught you just be grateful you have a job, you are there to work not be respected and everything else on this list.

It fucking sucks. Looking back with the career counselor it's jobs that wouldn't hand out lists like this I've been happy and most productive.

I'm not going to make my kids work someplace I wouldn't under the guise of character building. Maybe it's time we stop considering bad workplaces a growth excerise and instead teach kids to expect better.

[raeoflyte]

Mar 27, 2022 9:15:16 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Mar 27, 2022 8:38:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Wasn't anyone else here a stupid teen who managed to get a job? Overall I think I was a fairly "good" kid, and certainly worked hard. I got my first job at 14 and worked that and school, or had 2 jobs during breaks until I graduated.

In my parts it's own the poor and the lower middle class that do things like have their kids get jobs. Not regular middle class and above.  Of course there are exceptions, like us. And I had a coworker that required her kids to have a job to help pay for car insurance, etc. Oh, and DS had a friend that had to get a job. He was also expected to turn his paycheck over to his parents and they put the money away for college.

I was not allowed to get a job, even well into college. I was allowed to work the summer before college and the summer after freshman year. Anything else, and I had to ask permission. The first job I had, I taught 8 hours a semester. My mother was upset with me for that.

ETA: I don't think kids are lazy. It's a function of what parents are willing to provide. I think it's a function of folks mostly having smaller families now, so that they can give their kids more.

And raising a child IS different now than it was when I was growing up. No sense in comparing things most of the time.

And, I think it all just depends on how things are presented.

Let's say you are a family that makes enough to hire out house cleaners AND lawn care. There's a difference in how you present that to your kids. One way is " I work a demanding, high level job. That gives me more income to choose how I want to spend my non-working time. I want to spend it with you and doing abc. Therefore, we have chosen to spend the money on house cleaners and lawn care."

That's a whole lot different than a parent saying "Yeah, I'm not spending my time cleaning toilets. I work too hard for that."

Which do you think parents say, and which one gives the appearance that cleaning toilets is beneath them?

It's also very sobering to hear college kids weigh in on whether or not they should give up apartments with maid service.

I knew life was unfair. But I also have a pretty unfair life.

My kids *think* they know what unfair is. They have not had an unfair life.

I keep trying to find a nicer way to say this and failing, but I feel like that's the private school crowd more than it's about income. Which I admit could be my bias, but I know a lot of really rich people and I don't see them raising their kids like that.

I support high producing sales staff, so a lot of my coworkers are 1%'ers many times over, but I'd say most of them (at least of the ones I work with/work well with) are not the type that cleaning toilets is beneath them. Some sure, but those people are assholes if they're making 40k or 400k.

What kids pick up from always having hired help could be quite different than how the parents intend. Kids are a lot less moldable than I expected.

I'm not sure how different raising kids is now compared to when I grew up. My kids are being raised very similarly to how I was.

[giramomma]

Mar 27, 2022 10:22:07 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I keep trying to find a nicer way to say this and failing, but I feel like that's the private school crowd more than it's about income. Which I admit could be my bias, but I know a lot of really rich people and I don't see them raising their kids like that.

I support high producing sales staff, so a lot of my coworkers are 1%'ers many times over, but I'd say most of them (at least of the ones I work with/work well with) are not the type that cleaning toilets is beneath them. Some sure, but those people are assholes if they're making 40k or 400k.

What kids pick up from always having hired help could be quite different than how the parents intend. Kids are a lot less moldable than I expected.

I'm not sure how different raising kids is now compared to when I grew up. My kids are being raised very similarly to how I was.

My son goes to a public high school. He hangs out with families that have a lot more money than we do. DS is going away with his friends for one night at during spring break. They are staying in a vacation home that belongs to one of the kids' parents. Some of his other friends' parents can afford a house on a lake (around here, it's a million dollar house, give or take) plus boats and what not.

His friends give him rides to school most days. They decline payment for gas (ie, us giving them gas money), because their parents are already paying for gas and the kids feel like it's double dipping.

He sees the kids that aren't well off. That's why our public high school has the policy of making as easy as possible for kids to graduate. That's why the worst you can ever do is get a 50%. Don't even bother to show up for a test. You don't get a zero. You get 50%. I think they are permanently doing away with finals. Instead, it's being replaced with "bridge week" Which is essentially an extra four days for the kids to do make up work so they can try to pass their classes.

I have a theory about why our high school has moved to giving 50% for no effort. It's the cheapest/quickest solution to close racial gaps. Because it's too expensive to deal effectively deal with generational issues the at risk/poor/whatever you want to call them kids are dealing with. Food, places to shower, a place to wash your clothes, and some mentorship. That costs money. Hiring staff to work with the kids in small groups to get them back on track (ie, reading and doing math at grade level) costs money. The school district used to rely heavily on volunteers. Covid shot that to hell.

We do live in a big city with a lot of haves. State, local, and federal government. Plus a university. It's great, but it also masks reality. Even in our middle class neighborhood, we are definitely some of the lowest earners. Even a husband and wife both working as teachers make more money than DH and I do. With about 10 years of experience, that couple is making more than 100k.

[jeffreymo]

I think I would be more amused than outraged. And I’d explain to my teenager that not all bosses are like this and they should work hard and try to get a new job with a new boss as quickly as they can.

[Lizard Queen]

In my prior college stint, I had an accounting prof that introduced himself with an email similar to these "rules". I thought, what a jerk, DB, maybe I should switch my schedule around? I'm glad I didn't. The prof ended up being one of my favorites. I learned a ton, and he was funny! I've never had a funny business prof before or since.

[raeoflyte]

Mar 27, 2022 14:28:29 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Mar 27, 2022 10:22:07 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I keep trying to find a nicer way to say this and failing, but I feel like that's the private school crowd more than it's about income. Which I admit could be my bias, but I know a lot of really rich people and I don't see them raising their kids like that.

I support high producing sales staff, so a lot of my coworkers are 1%'ers many times over, but I'd say most of them (at least of the ones I work with/work well with) are not the type that cleaning toilets is beneath them. Some sure, but those people are assholes if they're making 40k or 400k.

What kids pick up from always having hired help could be quite different than how the parents intend. Kids are a lot less moldable than I expected.

I'm not sure how different raising kids is now compared to when I grew up. My kids are being raised very similarly to how I was.

My son goes to a public high school. He hangs out with families that have a lot more money than we do. DS is going away with his friends for one night at during spring break. They are staying in a vacation home that belongs to one of the kids' parents. Some of his other friends' parents can afford a house on a lake (around here, it's a million dollar house, give or take) plus boats and what not.

His friends give him rides to school most days. They decline payment for gas (ie, us giving them gas money), because their parents are already paying for gas and the kids feel like it's double dipping.

He sees the kids that aren't well off. That's why our public high school has the policy of making as easy as possible for kids to graduate. That's why the worst you can ever do is get a 50%. Don't even bother to show up for a test. You don't get a zero. You get 50%. I think they are permanently doing away with finals. Instead, it's being replaced with "bridge week" Which is essentially an extra four days for the kids to do make up work so they can try to pass their classes.

I have a theory about why our high school has moved to giving 50% for no effort. It's the cheapest/quickest solution to close racial gaps. Because it's too expensive to deal effectively deal with generational issues the at risk/poor/whatever you want to call them kids are dealing with. Food, places to shower, a place to wash your clothes, and some mentorship. That costs money. Hiring staff to work with the kids in small groups to get them back on track (ie, reading and doing math at grade level) costs money. The school district used to rely heavily on volunteers. Covid shot that to hell.

We do live in a big city with a lot of haves. State, local, and federal government. Plus a university. It's great, but it also masks reality. Even in our middle class neighborhood, we are definitely some of the lowest earners. Even a husband and wife both working as teachers make more money than DH and I do. With about 10 years of experience, that couple is making more than 100k.

I feel like that's branching into some different topics?

I think you said you feel like you're the exception teaching your kids the fundamentals in that original letter. I'm saying that isn't my experience. That parents I interact with, at all income levels, have similar struggles and worries regarding their kids. That preparing their kids for success means figuring out those fundamentals at home, in sports, at school. That when they mess up even the ones who could buy their kids out of trouble aren't going that route but trying to get their kids back on track which includes suffering consequences, fixing their mistakes and knowing that life isn't fair.

Maybe I run in a self selecting crowd, or maybe I'm getting biased info and am a little too glass half full. I'm guessing I have lower expectations for teens. I was a a privileged, self absorbed know it all that made a variety of good and bad decisions but I knew the rules the bosses letter were referring to. Most of us aren't at our best between 14-21 and a lot of mistakes of youth and arrogance are outgrown so I figure being a dumbass at 16 doesn't doom anyone to being a dumbass forever.

[TheOtherMe]

Mar 27, 2022 15:56:58 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

In my prior college stint, I had an accounting prof that introduced himself with an email similar to these "rules". I thought, what a jerk, DB, maybe I should switch my schedule around? I'm glad I didn't. The prof ended up being one of my favorites. I learned a ton, and he was funny! I've never had a funny business prof before or since.

I know I never had a funny business prof for either my BA or MBA. Dry as can be.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 28, 2022 8:48:04 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Mar 27, 2022 15:56:58 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

In my prior college stint, I had an accounting prof that introduced himself with an email similar to these "rules". I thought, what a jerk, DB, maybe I should switch my schedule around? I'm glad I didn't. The prof ended up being one of my favorites. I learned a ton, and he was funny! I've never had a funny business prof before or since.

I know I never had a funny business prof for either my BA or MBA. Dry as can be.

I had an organic chemistry prof who was hysterical.  He’d walk into class lecturing from the minute he stepped into the room, writing on the board.  You had to frantically keep up.  When he reached the end of the board, he’d stop and tell a joke.  About a minute later, you’d hear laughs across the room as people’s brains finally caught up.  Not sure where he got his joke supply, but he had enough for 2 semesters of classes.  

[haapai]

The guy that taught governmental and not-for-profit accounting had a sense of humor.  He had to be. 

The cost accounting prof was funny too.  Pretty much for the same reasons. 

[TheOtherMe]

I was in college taking accounting classes from 1973-1975.  My accounting professor was from Cairo, Egypt.  He was difficult to understand.  There were 3 women in our class.  I know he asked me (he was my advisor) why I was going to college and not getting married.  He never once called on any of the 3 women in class, which was totally unfair to the men.  We did not belong there.

The only joke he told was when he arrived  to an 8 AM class in the middle of a snowstorm without a winter coat or hat and we would tease him.  This was during the oil crisis back then and he would say he had a direct pipeline and didn't need a coat or hat.

That came back to get him.  When I was in graduate school in Colorado, he had moved on to Wyoming.  He died while hunting.  He was not wearing a coat and hat.  Sadly his direct pipeline to oil didn't work while hunting in the Rockies.

[happyhoix]

Mar 26, 2022 12:30:06 GMT -5 haapai said:

I don't really have a problem with anything on that list.  My parents taught me most of those things and I feel really sorry for kids that have not learned them. 

One of my coworkers has not been exposed to these ideas in any way and she is really floundering.  She's absolutely convinced that her managers and coworkers are being mean to her for some unfair reason. 

You may be working with my little sister.

Every single job she ever had, her boss had it in for her, coworkers hated her and tried to make her life hard, and she’d end up quitting within a couple years.

She told me once that her boss was always trying to tell her what to do. 😳

[haapai]

Mar 28, 2022 18:53:36 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 26, 2022 12:30:06 GMT -5 haapai said:

I don't really have a problem with anything on that list.  My parents taught me most of those things and I feel really sorry for kids that have not learned them. 

One of my coworkers has not been exposed to these ideas in any way and she is really floundering.  She's absolutely convinced that her managers and coworkers are being mean to her for some unfair reason. 

You may be working with my little sister.

Every single job she ever had, her boss had it in for her, coworkers hated her and tried to make her life hard, and she’d end up quitting within a couple years.

She told me once that her boss was always trying to tell her what to do. 😳

I kinda doubt that I'm working with your little sister.  My problem co-worker appears to have had much less work experience than your sister.  

She could, however, become someone very much like your little sister.  She appears to have a real problem with being told what to do, or even understanding that jobs are about doing a job, or at least completing a bunch of tasks. 

It boggles my mind, but she appears to have no idea that she is being paid to accomplish something tangible or that her output is being compared to what it costs to employ her.  She seems to think that as long as she has something to say, everyone should stop working and listen to her.  I don't think that she understands that she is at work now and that the people that she expects to listen to her until she runs out of words are not being paid to baby-sit her.  She sure acts like listening to her inane, ill-informed prattle is part of our job and that any attempt to get back to our jobs is being unfair and mean. 

I try so hard to avoid dealing with her.  She's so clueless. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 28, 2022 19:54:37 GMT -5 haapai said:

Mar 28, 2022 18:53:36 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

You may be working with my little sister.

Every single job she ever had, her boss had it in for her, coworkers hated her and tried to make her life hard, and she’d end up quitting within a couple years.

She told me once that her boss was always trying to tell her what to do. 😳

I kinda doubt that I'm working with your little sister.  My problem co-worker appears to have had much less work experience than your sister.  

She could, however, become someone very much like your little sister.  She appears to have a real problem with being told what to do, or even understanding that jobs are about doing a job, or at least completing a bunch of tasks. 

It boggles my mind, but she appears to have no idea that she is being paid to accomplish something tangible or that her output is being compared to what it costs to employ her.  She seems to think that as long as she has something to say, everyone should stop working and listen to her.  I don't think that she understands that she is at work now and that the people that she expects to listen to her until she runs out of words are not being paid to baby-sit her.  She sure acts like listening to her inane, ill-informed prattle is part of our job and that any attempt to get back to our jobs is being unfair and mean. 

I try so hard to avoid dealing with her.  She's so clueless. 

My mom’s sister never learned these lessons…..and she was fired from really good jobs because she never learned lessons 1,2,3 and 5.  It’s hard to watch in a 40+ year old adult who never learned these, and even my 15 year old self understood where she went wrong.  

However, TBH I’m not sure handing her this list at 16 would have helped.  In her case, it was more her personality that exacerbated this list.  

[happyhoix]

Mar 28, 2022 20:50:00 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Mar 28, 2022 19:54:37 GMT -5 haapai said:

I kinda doubt that I'm working with your little sister.  My problem co-worker appears to have had much less work experience than your sister.  

She could, however, become someone very much like your little sister.  She appears to have a real problem with being told what to do, or even understanding that jobs are about doing a job, or at least completing a bunch of tasks. 

It boggles my mind, but she appears to have no idea that she is being paid to accomplish something tangible or that her output is being compared to what it costs to employ her.  She seems to think that as long as she has something to say, everyone should stop working and listen to her.  I don't think that she understands that she is at work now and that the people that she expects to listen to her until she runs out of words are not being paid to baby-sit her.  She sure acts like listening to her inane, ill-informed prattle is part of our job and that any attempt to get back to our jobs is being unfair and mean. 

I try so hard to avoid dealing with her.  She's so clueless. 

My mom’s sister never learned these lessons…..and she was fired from really good jobs because she never learned lessons 1,2,3 and 5.  It’s hard to watch in a 40+ year old adult who never learned these, and even my 15 year old self understood where she went wrong.  

However, TBH I’m not sure handing her this list at 16 would have helped.  In her case, it was more her personality that exacerbated this list.  

I my sister’s case, she was the golden child in the family. Mom thought she could do no wrong, and everything sister did was remarkable. (So why did sister maintain a C average in HS if she was so remarkable? )

When you grow up that way, every time a boss or coworker tries to give you feedback on your job performance it seems like a personal verbal assault, which sends you sobbing into the bathroom. Which makes you continually changing jobs.

[Cookies Galore]

I would roll my eyes so hard, as I typically do when I see copy/paste crap like this. The boss probably drinks his coffee out of a Maxine mug, shares every "copy this if you agree!" crap post on Facebook, and thinks he's so clever, even though he had everything handed to him growing.
And yes, this is the picture I have in my head of the type of person who shares unoriginal thoughts like they're worth something.

[Cookies Galore]

Rule number 8 irks me, about no more winners and losers. I'm 40 years old, so my parents and my peers' parents are boomers. I remember my brother getting a participation trophy in every sport he played as a kid. So you (boomer parents) can't create the participation trophy and then denigrate the existence of participation trophies, giving people multiple chances, etc.

[swamp]

Mar 28, 2022 18:53:36 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 26, 2022 12:30:06 GMT -5 haapai said:

I don't really have a problem with anything on that list.  My parents taught me most of those things and I feel really sorry for kids that have not learned them. 

One of my coworkers has not been exposed to these ideas in any way and she is really floundering.  She's absolutely convinced that her managers and coworkers are being mean to her for some unfair reason. 

You may be working with my little sister.

Every single job she ever had, her boss had it in for her, coworkers hated her and tried to make her life hard, and she’d end up quitting within a couple years.

She told me once that her boss was always trying to tell her what to do. 😳

I hate it when bosses boss. So unfair.