Should The Dad Be Outraged?

[Tennesseer]

Seems to me to be good life rules.

16-Year-Old Gets A List Of Rules From Her Boss On The First Day At Her Retail Job And Her Dad Is Outraged By It

Insulting and gross or an important life lesson with some harsh truth in it? That’s what internet users are discussing after seeing a list of rules to live by that a 16-year-old got from her boss on her very first day at the job. Her dad, from New Zealand, shared a photo of the letter on Twitter because he was outraged by the things written there.

It’s an 11-point list that summarizes the boss’ views on life. (Though, as some later pointed out, the list isn’t original and he must have copied it.) And it started up a fiery debate online. While many people were quite understandably angry at the cynical ‘Boomer’ ideas expressed there, others thought that not everything written there was as ridiculous as it first sounds. The job industry is a tough place, after all.

Have a read through the list and how other people felt about it, Pandas. And when you’re done, we’d love to hear your thoughts on it, in the comments.

The furious dad of a 16-year-old shared the letter her boss gave to her. He thought that the list of rules to live by was horrendous.



Complete article here: 16-Year-Old Gets A List Of Rules From Her Boss On The First Day At Her Retail Job And Her Dad Is Outraged By It

[ners]

I am not sure.  I think the rules are a little harsh for a 16-year-old.  I do not disagree with most of the rules. Of course I am a one of the younger boomers. 

[andi9899]

I didn't see a reason for outrage. It was inappropriate but not something I'd drag someone on the internet for. There is a lot of truth to the "rules".

[NastyWoman]

Not a very diplomatically worded list but I must be old as the rest of these rules are real world truths IMO. Instead of getting mad dad should point that out to his daughter.

[haapai]

I don't really have a problem with anything on that list.  My parents taught me most of those things and I feel really sorry for kids that have not learned them. 

One of my coworkers has not been exposed to these ideas in any way and she is really floundering.  She's absolutely convinced that her managers and coworkers are being mean to her for some unfair reason. 

[pulmonarymd]

Count me in on thinking the rules are mostly true. Whether the boss should have shared them is a different issue. But we all need to learn how insignificant we all are in the grand scheme of things. 

Also from a young boomer 

[Deleted]

I'm a Boomer and I suppose that some of those rules would have seemed harsh at age 16 the way they were worded- but I'm pretty sure I was getting those messages anyway.  That's what I'd tell a 16-year old exposed to them for the first time.

When DS was 14 I sent him to a military boarding school which was definitely NOT "everybody wins", and if you broke the rules you might have to rake leaves on the grounds or buff the floors.  So, he got those lessons even earlier.

[geenamercile]

I have seen that list before, years ago, it isn't new.  They are things I might say to my daughters, but no I don't think it would be appropriate for a boss to hand out to an employee no matter the age of the employee on the first day at work.  To me it does come off as adversarial or sarcastic, and I would wonder what type or tone attitude that manger has.   Rule number 2 would have triggered my smart mouth enough to point out that apparently I have accomplished enough that they wanted to hire me, I may have the brains not to have said that out loud.  "Shop," is also misspelled in rule number 10.  I would also wonder what rule 7 has anything to do with the job.        

[tskeeter]

The boss’ list is a bit overboard, but it is not off the mark for some, maybe many, self absorbed teenagers or young adults.  I have a nephew, when looking for his first job, who thought he had the skill set to be a manager.  I think rule #3 applied to the nephew.  Then there was the cousin who was about to complete a Masters in Library Science.  He thought a newly minted Masters would entitle him to a salary that was 25% more than I was earning as the Controller for a $300 million manufacturing operation with 20 years of industry experience.  Cousin, see rule #3.

The fact that the parent was outraged over the boss’ list makes me suspect that Mom and Dad have not taught any of these facts of life to their child.

When I was working, I loved to interview young folks who grew up in small towns for entry level, or near entry level positions.  I usually found out that these candidates had held summer, or even year around jobs.  And that they had worked to pay for a portion of their college education.  Often times, these young folks had been shift or crew leaders.  If they had worked in a family business, even better.  Children who worked in a family business are likely to know what it is like to work in an environment where the expectations for their behavior and performance was higher than for any other employee (life’s not fair).  If you hired one of these folks, it was unlikely they would call in sick Monday morning because they were worn out from a weekend of too much fun.  They understood what it meant to hold a job and to work.  I’m not convinced that the child of the outraged parent would have a similar work ethic.

[geenamercile]

As a parent if my 16 year old came home with those rules I don't think I would have a fit about it, or post about it.  I would probably just tell them that their boss was showing his asshole side early, and to decide if that was something they are willing to put up with for the job or not. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I don’t see the reason for outrage.  I can’t count the number of times that 10-19 year old Mich was told that life wasn’t fair.  

My parents didn't sugar coat life.  They taught me when I failed to get back up and try again.  That was probably the most important lesson in life.  

Unfortunately, my nieces are still learning these lessons.  

[Tiny]

IDK, It looks like a modern day Meme to me.   It's not related to doing the job at all.   It's just another example of a adult being a jerk to a teenager. 

TLDR: 


Back in HS in the late 70's early 80's I had various signs and pictures and posters decorating my school locker. I loved my Robert Redford as the Sundance Kid 8*10 photo (eventually Harrison Ford as Han Solo got added to the gallery of my "movie star crushes" -- and a drawing of Mickey Mouse giving the finger and a list of "Rules" not unlike the one in the OP - that was "Murphy's Law" based and dealt with all the unfair treatment HS students get from their teachers, school officials, and their own parents. The Rules more than likely mirrored the sentiments in the OP's list.

If I got handed something like that (that was more in the early 80's theme of why the new generation was worthless) it wouldn't have been anything I hadn't already heard or seen before.

As I was proficient in giving Adults my "Oh, I agree with you" face - I would have used that face when reading the Rules - and then later rolled my eyes and thought "what a jerk.. just like nearly all the other adults in my life" and as I had already reconciled my need to pick and choose my fights /when to rebel - I probably would have just written this off as something to ignore - I needed the money and I wasn't signing up for a lifetime term with this employer.

I'd be more concerned about the ACTUAL rules for conduct in the work place... like the dress code, start/stop times, how to discuss work schedule (and to put in for time off or a need to NOT work a particular day.) and what kind of favoritism or bullying went on in the work place. I would have not taken that Meme list as anything other than an Stupid Adult attempting to be Funny and failing miserably.

(My first job at 16 was working with a bunch of Dirty Old Men - so sexual harassment came with the job. Which oddly wasn't anything I wasn't familiar with and gave them all what for as needed. (the Old Guys weren't that bad... when they got called out they stopped... it was more they were "doing what they thought they should do (following a script)" - rather than "they had a RIGHT to say/do that stuff and how dare I (or anyone else) tell them otherwise" I worked part time for 5 years, there. A couple of the front office girls couldn't take the Dirty Old Men and quickly quit. I think the Dirty Old Men were "afraid" of me and on other fearless  front office girl - the two of us had a 3 year tenure together.  Especially after they got greeted by PlayGirl centerfolds in the Bathroom we all shared - when they went a little to far with the comments about us girls (made the third girl cry) and their girlie calendars hanging in the back work shop. We said "quit it" a multitude of ways and times. They had some trouble interpreting "Please Stop. No, we don't like that. Please stop.) WE told them maybe they should try harder to look like those ripped hunks in the pictures. They sure were nice to look at. It's a two way street.  That got the message thru.  Some of the calendars came down, the Hunks in the Bathroom came down, and the guys stopped being cute by comparing us to the calendar girls to our faces. )

[Lizard Queen]

These aren't actual rules.  I have no problem with these words of advice in general.  Being handed them as related to a job is kind of presumptuous,  though.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I come down on the outrage side personally. this boss should be fired. if they're an owner, I hope the go bankrupt.

The list is trite and predictable, but that and any content within is besides the point.

This boss is abusing their authority to foist their personal philosophy onto their employees. This has nothing to do with their job duties, or the company or anything at all. I'm a bit disturbed that so many posting here don't see that. Employees have the right not to be subjected to this kind of thing just because their boss believes in it. If I was the boss' boss I'd be writing them up, PIP, and managing out if I couldn't fire them immediately. This is such an overstep. This is not what managers are suppose to be doing with their time, or their reports time.

That the employees are teens/first job makes this abuse far more egregious. I bet this person is an absolutely terrible bosss in other ways too.

[buystoys]

Well, by handing it out on her first day at the job, he gave her notice of his expectations.  That's a fair thing if you think about it.  She could choose to stay or go based on those listed expectations, which is more than many managers give you.

[resolution]

The tone and presentation seem designed to insult the new employees. I don't disagree with the rules, but who is he to assume that the new person he just hired has poor values and ridiculous expectations? Why is he addressing them that way before they demonstrate who they are?

If I were presented with those rules on my first day, it would also be my last day. And if I had a child given those rules, I would advise them to quit and find an employer that doesn't stereotype them based on online memes. If the job is starting off treating the workers with contempt, it will only get worse.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 26, 2022 15:01:27 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Well, by handing it out on her first day at the job, he gave her notice of his expectations.  That's a fair thing if you think about it.  She could choose to stay or go based on those listed expectations, which is more than many managers give you.

what expectation is listed?

besides be expected to be treated with no respect and no leadership because I don't want to hear a word you have to say about anything? 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 26, 2022 15:05:24 GMT -5 resolution said:

The tone and presentation seem designed to insult the new employees. I don't disagree with the rules, but who is he to assume that the new person he just hired has poor values and ridiculous expectations? Why is he addressing them that way before they demonstrate who they are?

If I were presented with those rules on my first day, it would also be my last day. And if I had a child given those rules, I would advise them to quit and find an employer that doesn't stereotype them based on online memes. If the job is starting off treating the workers with contempt, it will only get worse.

I agree with youe except for the bolded. Not your agreement of course, but that they are rules.

I don't see anything about punctuality, treating customers with respect, no using offensive lanuguge - those would be rules. What the hell is this list? What is it communicating to the employee about job expectations?

I don't see anything!

[busymom]

Sometimes the truth hurts.  Might be a bit heavy for a sixteen-year-old, but hey, the sooner you figure out how life works, the more quickly you learn to navigate the waters.


Dad should get his undies out of a twist.  I've had tougher bosses.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I wonder if many who are outraged have ever supervised a teenager these days.  I have.  While many in the list seem logical to me, there are a LOT of 16/17/18 year olds out there where this applies.  

I can give you a laundry list of specific incidences in supervising teenagers where I would have loved to hand this list to a student.  My personal favorite……can’t show up for work on time, so show up 2 hours late because her face is bleeding (she picked a zit).  I have had students throw out and hide expensive glassware as they didn’t want to wash it, or did a really crappy job and I had to redo it myself.  Nothing in the lab was beneath me…..but it certainly was beneath a bunch of lab helpers we hired.  I finally gave up on them.  We hired an older woman who wanted to supplement her retirement.  

So I get the idea of handing someone this list.

[dannylion]

That list of 'life lessons" is really only effective when screamed at a formation of military basic trainees by a large, angry man dressed in pristine khaki, wearing a Smokey Bear hat, and who deliberately mispronounces everyone's name.  Otherwise, it just comes off as rude and unnecessarily antagonistic.  

[giramomma]

That wouldn't bother me. But, also we raise our kids with a lot of those notions. TBH, I feel like we go against the grain all the time.

My son has worked in a grocery store for two years, now. He has absolutely come home saying "This is fair, that's not fair." That absolutely is relevant to his job duties. His job duties, got changed, because of other employee's screw ups. Is it "Fair" to DS? No. But, his employer's first allegience is to the bottom line, NOT to making sure that DS has warm fuzzies about his job all the time.

He also has been smart enough to know when to keep his mouth shut about it. Because thems is the rules, and if he doesn't like it, he's free to find a different employer.

My son also goes to one of those schools that will give kids 2342342 chances to pass a class. Kids also can't get lower than a 50% on any assessment...even if they actually did get a 30 or 40%.

How many of us will work at a job that says "You did unacceptable work? No problem! We'll make sure that you are noted as doing average job on your evaluations!"

Do you know how many conversations I had with my son from 14-16 that reminded him that HE was responsible for his own choices and behavior?

I'm not foolish enough to think that every parent has those conversations with their kids.

[swamp]

Mar 26, 2022 13:28:15 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

These aren't actual rules.  I have no problem with these words of advice in general.  Being handed them as related to a job is kind of presumptuous,  though.

This. 

[resolution]

Mar 26, 2022 15:09:13 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 26, 2022 15:05:24 GMT -5 resolution said:

The tone and presentation seem designed to insult the new employees. I don't disagree with the rules, but who is he to assume that the new person he just hired has poor values and ridiculous expectations? Why is he addressing them that way before they demonstrate who they are?

If I were presented with those rules on my first day, it would also be my last day. And if I had a child given those rules, I would advise them to quit and find an employer that doesn't stereotype them based on online memes. If the job is starting off treating the workers with contempt, it will only get worse.

I agree with youe except for the bolded. Not your agreement of course, but that they are rules.

I don't see anything about punctuality, treating customers with respect, no using offensive lanuguge - those would be rules. What the hell is this list? What is it communicating to the employee about job expectations?

I don't see anything!

I should have said that I agree that most of the statements are true. They aren't work rules at all. Work rules would be the schedule, productivity standards, dress code, how to track time, etc... 

[dannylion]

Mar 26, 2022 15:21:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I wonder if many who are outraged have ever supervised a teenager these days.  I have.  While many in the list seem logical to me, there are a LOT of 16/17/18 year olds out there where this applies.  

I can give you a laundry list of specific incidences in supervising teenagers where I would have loved to hand this list to a student.  My personal favorite……can’t show up for work on time, so show up 2 hours late because her face is bleeding (she picked a zit).  I have had students throw out and hide expensive glassware as they didn’t want to wash it, or did a really crappy job and I had to redo it myself.  Nothing in the lab was beneath me…..but it certainly was beneath a bunch of lab helpers we hired.  I finally gave up on them.  We hired an older woman who wanted to supplement her retirement.  

So I get the idea of handing someone this list.

One suspects the boss has had more than a few unsatisfactory experiences with new employees and is either too jaded to make an effort to put a positive spin on his expectations or lacks the social skills to do so.  

[dannylion]

Mar 26, 2022 13:28:15 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

These aren't actual rules.  I have no problem with these words of advice in general.  Being handed them as related to a job is kind of presumptuous,  though.

Exactly.  Those are all life lessons everyone needs to learn.  Handing them to a new employee on the first day without knowing the employee's character or observing her work ethic is probably unnecessarily confrontational and automatically establishes an adversarial relationship.  There are likely better ways to get his point across without making the employee feel like she is starting at an unearned disadvantage.  

[resolution]

Mar 26, 2022 15:21:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I wonder if many who are outraged have ever supervised a teenager these days.  I have.  While many in the list seem logical to me, there are a LOT of 16/17/18 year olds out there where this applies.  

I can give you a laundry list of specific incidences in supervising teenagers where I would have loved to hand this list to a student.  My personal favorite……can’t show up for work on time, so show up 2 hours late because her face is bleeding (she picked a zit).  I have had students throw out and hide expensive glassware as they didn’t want to wash it, or did a really crappy job and I had to redo it myself.  Nothing in the lab was beneath me…..but it certainly was beneath a bunch of lab helpers we hired.  I finally gave up on them.  We hired an older woman who wanted to supplement her retirement.  

So I get the idea of handing someone this list.

I got saddled with lots of teens over the years because my employer is a big supporter of the Summer Youth Employment program. A lot of them have poor work ethic and poor behavior, and I had to address the specific behavior that needed improvement. In some cases I had to terminate them due to violations of our standards of conduct, which was a major pain because i had to notify the program in advance and go through more red tape than a normal employee.

We had an onboarding plan and specific expectations such as hours, dress code, and assigned duties. Telling them in all caps that I am not here to help them FIND THEMSELVES never once occurred to me. Telling them they won't make $60,000 a year right out of high school also didn't occur to me. They already knew that since they were working for me for minimum wage.

[geenamercile]

Rule 1- Life may not be fair, but I expect fair treatment in a work place environment. 

Rule 2- I have already achieved enough to apparently been hired by you, or would you rather I not feel good about working here.  Are you saying that having this job means I have not achieved anything, and if that is the case why do I want to work here.

Rule 3- But is there room for me to grow and achieve that one day?  How do you train and promote.

Rule 4- Teachers tend to want to see people achieve, grow, and reach their potential.  If your goal as a boss is to be tough and not a leader do I really want you as a boss?

Rule 5- Since this is a retailer, would you like me to flip burgers on the counter?  Also burger flippers get min wage.  (article says this places pays below min wage to the teen agers)

Rule 6- I won't whine about my mistakes, I will complain about unclear expectations or instructions that leave me to figure things out on my own, and then you call a mistake later.

Rule 7- Don't presume to know my parents, family or home life.  That really is none of your business.  

Rule 8- Most mistakes can be fixed with ownership and correction.  But give me the correct and full information to work from so mistakes happen less.

Rule 9- You didn't spell off right, maybe you should refer to Rule number 6 and 8 about mistakes.  But I would like to know the leave policy.  Also, are you saying that you as an employer have no interest in helping me learn and advance in the work place, since part of "finding yourself," is also finding your role in the work place.

Rule 10- Well this doesn't seem to be a coffee shop and I am here, or wait do we have coffee?  Also refer back to 6 and 8 with the spelling of shop as hsop. 

Rule 11- Are you referring to yourself as a nerd?  I think they might know how to spell 3 and 4 letter words.  Sure you didn't graduate from school because of that "abolished of failing grades and they will give you as many times as you want to get the right answer."



Again I don't have anything against the meme and rules in general.  There is a time and place for everything, but being handed out at work is not the time or place for them.  Coming from a boss would not be okay for me.  And in some ways they seem to be a way to justify a toxic work environment if they were meant to be taken seriously.       

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 26, 2022 15:36:30 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Mar 26, 2022 15:21:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I wonder if many who are outraged have ever supervised a teenager these days.  I have.  While many in the list seem logical to me, there are a LOT of 16/17/18 year olds out there where this applies.  

I can give you a laundry list of specific incidences in supervising teenagers where I would have loved to hand this list to a student.  My personal favorite……can’t show up for work on time, so show up 2 hours late because her face is bleeding (she picked a zit).  I have had students throw out and hide expensive glassware as they didn’t want to wash it, or did a really crappy job and I had to redo it myself.  Nothing in the lab was beneath me…..but it certainly was beneath a bunch of lab helpers we hired.  I finally gave up on them.  We hired an older woman who wanted to supplement her retirement.  

So I get the idea of handing someone this list.

One suspects the boss has had more than a few unsatisfactory experiences with new employees and is either too jaded to make an effort to put a positive spin on his expectations or lacks the social skills to do so.  

It is actually a little amusing if we really start to consider from the boss' job perspective. Unsatisfactory employees or not - they are suppose to manage them and this list is a terrible attempt to both undermine their self esteem and cow them into not bringing concerns forward....
So boss is sucking at their job - hence is unsatisfatory in performance of their bossly duties....

So - no self esteem for you bad-boss! No car and cell phone and 60k VP status.....

[moon/Laura]

Mar 26, 2022 13:28:15 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

These aren't actual rules.  I have no problem with these words of advice in general.  Being handed them as related to a job is kind of presumptuous,  though.

Agreed. That's more a list of life lessons. I could see it hanging on a bulletin board in the break room, rather than a first day hand out, however.

No outrage from me, nor do I understand why *anyone* would be upset. If my son had come home with something like that, I'd have told him it's all true and that though he might struggle with it at times, he does need to learn that life as a grownup is going to suck sometimes. Put your big girl/boy panties on and deal with it.