pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Oct 8, 2021 9:16:59 GMT -5
The vaccination rate by race/ethnicity has essentially closed. Do you have something else to point to?
The issue is not what overall rates of infection/deaths are from the beginning. 100K people have died in 3.5 months. All since the vaccines were widely available. Most were in states where vaccination rates lagged, and most were in states that trend republicans. Since vaccination decreases the risk of death by 90%, about 90% were preventable. All due to lack of vaccination, and mostly in red states. These are the facts, not the points you are trying to deflect with.
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Post by Opti on Oct 8, 2021 9:43:44 GMT -5
yeah, I think we need to stop pinning this on NY. NY had the disadvantage of being the first or second densely populated region to get this, at a time when testing basically didn't exist. NO OTHER REGION HAS THAT EXCUSE. sorry, but those are the facts. so, yes, NY got hit hard because it had all the disadvantages and none of the advantages. if you take virtually every other instance SINCE then, however, a quite different picture of the pandemic emerges. Problem with this is they knew this was highly transmittable from the beginning. You do not fill retirement homes with people wih highly transmittable communicable diseases. Even after Cuomo knew there was a problem, he did not rectify the situation. He hid it. Remember, high level politicians rarily go to jail for the crime, it is the cover up that does them in. In his case it was not evn that. It was hisldesire for a kiss........ P.S. Californis and the Pacific coast were also hit at the very beginning. None of them committed this mistake, although I do believe Oregon or Wshington had the nusing home problem but immediately fixed it and not sure if the state was putting covid patients in the homes. They didn't know anything from the beginning. It took months to even know how it was transmitted. What kind of exposure. Really please enlighten me, where do you put people who have an highly transmittable disease? Retirement homes try to run fully occupied for financial and employment reasons. Where are they supposed to go during these breakouts? Where are you putting them when you are tracking outbreaks across your state and you might not even have open beds elsewhere to put them? That coast it turns out somewhat lucked out in that the initial faucet bringing in the disease was turned off. That vector came directly from China. But unknown at the time, is Italy among other places already was a vector. This area has international flights daily. The disease was flying in and we had no way to test for it. Read some Trump WH books about that time. There was not enough political will to shut the European faucet off because it comes with commercial implications. Trump likes sexual gimmes from women who can't fight back as much if not more than Cuomo.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 8, 2021 10:03:55 GMT -5
I think VB is fixated on NYC because of the politics and is ignoring the fact NYC is bigger than a fair amount of states population-wise. NY and NJ got clobbered in the beginning of the pandemic. Because of that, they remain at #5 and #2 in the Worldometer dashboard on deaths per 1 Million in population. But they are right now at #32 and #31 for Covid cases per 1 Million population. TN is current leaderboard material for cases per 1 Million population followed by North Dakota and Florida. Death rate is currently owned by MS with AL, Louisiana, and Arizona in the top 6. I think Florida has been under-reporting so I wonder if accurate reporting would change their ranking. From my earlier post, those planning to not get the vaccine are around 13 to 15% of the population according to that link. If VB's number of 5500 NYC teachers in accurate, it is under 10% of NYC teachers. nypost.com/2021/02/02/nyc-teacher-poll-finds-60-percent-would-exit-department-of-education/But the DOE stressed Tuesday that the poll engaged only a small percentage of the city’s roughly 120,000 school staffers — including 75,000 classroom teachers.Okay, one more time. The majority of posters here blame hard far right Republican Trump backers, white people, for not getting the vaccine and spreading the disease. I am saying that is not all true. If you look at the infection and death rates of minorities in many states it is higher than white demographics. You can say yeh, because white people are highly vaccinated, but that includes a bunch of white Republicans too. You cannot make this political when vast numbers of minority Democrats refuse to get the vaccine. If anyone bothered to dig deep in the data I posted by opening the links, even in southern red states there are huge numbers of minority designated populations remaining unvaccinated. The problem is much deeper than that. Call it distrust of the government, distrust of vaccines, call it anything but a far right conspiracy, and please quit putting statements out there it is ok to cull the herd. It is political. Using certain examples is bad reasoning, because logistics among other things. Who pushed to pretend Covid was no big deal and it would just go away? Trump. He blanketed the media with it. He also refused to coordinate the response over the US and then actively went to make sure places like NJ and NY couldn't get PPE and other supplies. He sent them to his supporters. It is a far right conspiracy. Who in the heck is putting out invermectin and other shit out as things that work? Sure there are other actors in this space, but militant Covid deniers are more R than L. If you made a pie chart of who wasn't getting it, RW peeps would take up most of it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 12, 2021 17:56:02 GMT -5
yeah, I think we need to stop pinning this on NY. NY had the disadvantage of being the first or second densely populated region to get this, at a time when testing basically didn't exist. NO OTHER REGION HAS THAT EXCUSE. sorry, but those are the facts. so, yes, NY got hit hard because it had all the disadvantages and none of the advantages. if you take virtually every other instance SINCE then, however, a quite different picture of the pandemic emerges. Problem with this is they knew this was highly transmittable from the beginning. You do not fill retirement homes with people wih highly transmittable communicable diseases. Even after Cuomo knew there was a problem, he did not rectify the situation. He hid it. Remember, high level politicians rarily go to jail for the crime, it is the cover up that does them in. In his case it was not evn that. It was hisldesire for a kiss........ P.S. Californis and the Pacific coast were also hit at the very beginning. None of them committed this mistake, although I do believe Oregon or Wshington had the nusing home problem but immediately fixed it and not sure if the state was putting covid patients in the homes. the West Coast got it far later than NY did (with the exception of Seattle which did both a spectacular job of containing it, and had a bit of good luck). our peak came about FIVE MONTHS after NY. not only did we have adequate testing at that time, the vaccines were already in their second stage trials, we knew about the communicability, and we had mask mandates.
the ONLY thing that mattered in March and April was having adequate testing, and NY was unique in that it was the ONLY urban center hit hard before that was the case. so, essentially, they were flying blind. they didn't know how many asymptomatic carriers there were. they didn't know what would decidedly prevent transmission. they didn't have ANY federal guidance or support.
so, yeah, I stand behind what I say 100%. NY's bad case numbers were due to the fact that they got it early. we learned lessons based on their losses. well, the blue states did.
having settled that, why don't you comment about Governor DeSantis ALSO lying about the numbers, but ALSO making it impossible for Floridians to be safe?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 12, 2021 20:55:22 GMT -5
Problem with this is they knew this was highly transmittable from the beginning. You do not fill retirement homes with people wih highly transmittable communicable diseases. Even after Cuomo knew there was a problem, he did not rectify the situation. He hid it. Remember, high level politicians rarily go to jail for the crime, it is the cover up that does them in. In his case it was not evn that. It was hisldesire for a kiss........ P.S. Californis and the Pacific coast were also hit at the very beginning. None of them committed this mistake, although I do believe Oregon or Wshington had the nusing home problem but immediately fixed it and not sure if the state was putting covid patients in the homes. the West Coast got it far later than NY did (with the exception of Seattle which did both a spectacular job of containing it, and had a bit of good luck). our peak came about FIVE MONTHS after NY. not only did we have adequate testing at that time, the vaccines were already in their second stage trials, we knew about the communicability, and we had mask mandates.
the ONLY thing that mattered in March and April was having adequate testing, and NY was unique in that it was the ONLY urban center hit hard before that was the case. so, essentially, they were flying blind. they didn't know how many asymptomatic carriers there were. they didn't know what would decidedly prevent transmission. they didn't have ANY federal guidance or support.
so, yeah, I stand behind what I say 100%. NY's bad case numbers were due to the fact that they got it early. we learned lessons based on their losses. well, the blue states did.
having settled that, why don't you comment about Governor DeSantis ALSO lying about the numbers, but ALSO making it impossible for Floridians to be safe?
Until all the northerners stop coming down here infecting the locals I will not answer your premise. Some northerners have been staying in their winter homes for a year now afraid to go back north. Some Canadians stayed doen here until they were forced to go back to Canada or lose their health insurance, Many CANADIANS flew to Florida only to get the shot. Had to fly because Canada and the USA would not let them drive here. The Federal Government paid for their shots because they owned property in the states.......
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Oct 12, 2021 21:24:38 GMT -5
the West Coast got it far later than NY did (with the exception of Seattle which did both a spectacular job of containing it, and had a bit of good luck). our peak came about FIVE MONTHS after NY. not only did we have adequate testing at that time, the vaccines were already in their second stage trials, we knew about the communicability, and we had mask mandates.
the ONLY thing that mattered in March and April was having adequate testing, and NY was unique in that it was the ONLY urban center hit hard before that was the case. so, essentially, they were flying blind. they didn't know how many asymptomatic carriers there were. they didn't know what would decidedly prevent transmission. they didn't have ANY federal guidance or support.
so, yeah, I stand behind what I say 100%. NY's bad case numbers were due to the fact that they got it early. we learned lessons based on their losses. well, the blue states did.
having settled that, why don't you comment about Governor DeSantis ALSO lying about the numbers, but ALSO making it impossible for Floridians to be safe?
Until all the northerners stop coming down here infecting the locals I will not answer your premise. Some northerners have been staying in their winter homes for a year now afraid to go back north. Some Canadians stayed doen here until they were forced to go back to Canada or lose their health insurance, Many CANADIANS flew to Florida only to get the shot. Had to fly because Canada and the USA would not let them drive here. The Federal Government paid for their shots because they owned property in the states....... Yeah, because that is what is causing the high infection rate. Since you can’t blame illegals, you now came up with the next best thing. It is the unvaccinated who are the problem, and the Republican leadership is at fault. Not to mention the appointment of a surgeon general who is an idiot and so far out of the mainstream thinking that he should have his license revoked. But sure, blame the northerners. Florida needs no help to make a mess of things
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 12, 2021 21:43:25 GMT -5
the West Coast got it far later than NY did (with the exception of Seattle which did both a spectacular job of containing it, and had a bit of good luck). our peak came about FIVE MONTHS after NY. not only did we have adequate testing at that time, the vaccines were already in their second stage trials, we knew about the communicability, and we had mask mandates.
the ONLY thing that mattered in March and April was having adequate testing, and NY was unique in that it was the ONLY urban center hit hard before that was the case. so, essentially, they were flying blind. they didn't know how many asymptomatic carriers there were. they didn't know what would decidedly prevent transmission. they didn't have ANY federal guidance or support.
so, yeah, I stand behind what I say 100%. NY's bad case numbers were due to the fact that they got it early. we learned lessons based on their losses. well, the blue states did.
having settled that, why don't you comment about Governor DeSantis ALSO lying about the numbers, but ALSO making it impossible for Floridians to be safe?
Until all the northerners stop coming down here infecting the locals I will not answer your premise. Some northerners have been staying in their winter homes for a year now afraid to go back north. Some Canadians stayed doen here until they were forced to go back to Canada or lose their health insurance, Many CANADIANS flew to Florida only to get the shot. Had to fly because Canada and the USA would not let them drive here. The Federal Government paid for their shots because they owned property in the states....... Why would they be afraid to go north? Canada's average infections and deaths are much lower than the US. Florida is much higher than the US average. In fact Florida is number 4 right now in cases per 1 Million of the population. Only the great northern states of Tennessee, North Dakota, and South Carolina top Florida, and not by much compared to the distance to the US average. DeSantis is one of the governor's that wanted to open the state for tourism ASAP. Maybe you need to talk to him and others in the state.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 12, 2021 21:49:03 GMT -5
Until all the northerners stop coming down here infecting the locals I will not answer your premise. Some northerners have been staying in their winter homes for a year now afraid to go back north. Some Canadians stayed doen here until they were forced to go back to Canada or lose their health insurance, Many CANADIANS flew to Florida only to get the shot. Had to fly because Canada and the USA would not let them drive here. The Federal Government paid for their shots because they owned property in the states....... Why would they be afraid to go north? Canada's average infections and deaths are much lower than the US. Florida is much higher than the US average. In fact Florida is number 4 right now in cases per 1 Million of the population. Only the great northern states of Tennessee, North Dakota, and South Carolina top Florida, and not by much compared to the distance to the US average. DeSantis is one of the governor's that wanted to open the state for tourism ASAP. Maybe you need to talk to him and others in the state. Canadians love to be down here just like New Yorkers. Canadians can not stay over six months or they lose their Canadian health insurance
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 12, 2021 22:00:00 GMT -5
Why would they be afraid to go north? Canada's average infections and deaths are much lower than the US. Florida is much higher than the US average. In fact Florida is number 4 right now in cases per 1 Million of the population. Only the great northern states of Tennessee, North Dakota, and South Carolina top Florida, and not by much compared to the distance to the US average. DeSantis is one of the governor's that wanted to open the state for tourism ASAP. Maybe you need to talk to him and others in the state. Canadians love to be down here just like New Yorkers. Canadians can not stay over six months or they lose their Canadian health insurance I dropped the tabs, but Canadian tourism is way down compared to 2019. 2nd quarter was 15,000 Canadian visitors. 2019 I think 930,000. Domestic tourism is almost back to normal. www.bing.com/search?q=domestic%20visitors%20to%20florida%202020%202021&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&ghc=1&pq=domestic%20visitors%20to%20florida%202020%202021&sc=3-38&sk=&cvid=8D4B1707069D4BE1BB8C8DB8ADD7A12CPreliminary estimates are that 26.2 million people visited the state in the first quarter of 2021, down 14% from the same period in 2020 but the smallest decrease since the start of the coronavirus pandemic. Domestic visitors accounted for almost 98% of the total, split about 71% drivers and 29% flyers. And there are other rays of sunshine.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 12, 2021 22:02:03 GMT -5
Why would they be afraid to go north? Canada's average infections and deaths are much lower than the US. Florida is much higher than the US average. In fact Florida is number 4 right now in cases per 1 Million of the population. Only the great northern states of Tennessee, North Dakota, and South Carolina top Florida, and not by much compared to the distance to the US average. DeSantis is one of the governor's that wanted to open the state for tourism ASAP. Maybe you need to talk to him and others in the state. Canadians love to be down here just like New Yorkers. Canadians can not stay over six months or they lose their Canadian health insurance Apparently people from Indiana like to live there as well. You have no proof of anything just belief. Have you even looked at the waves of cases for Florida compared to other states and countries?
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 12, 2021 22:09:30 GMT -5
Canadians love to be down here just like New Yorkers. Canadians can not stay over six months or they lose their Canadian health insurance Apparently people from Indiana like to live there as well. You have no proof of anything just belief. Have you even looked at the waves of cases for Florida compared to other states and countries? Valuebuy forgets he's a snowbird just like the rest of the folks who head to Florida when it gets cold.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 13, 2021 14:34:03 GMT -5
the West Coast got it far later than NY did (with the exception of Seattle which did both a spectacular job of containing it, and had a bit of good luck). our peak came about FIVE MONTHS after NY. not only did we have adequate testing at that time, the vaccines were already in their second stage trials, we knew about the communicability, and we had mask mandates.
the ONLY thing that mattered in March and April was having adequate testing, and NY was unique in that it was the ONLY urban center hit hard before that was the case. so, essentially, they were flying blind. they didn't know how many asymptomatic carriers there were. they didn't know what would decidedly prevent transmission. they didn't have ANY federal guidance or support.
so, yeah, I stand behind what I say 100%. NY's bad case numbers were due to the fact that they got it early. we learned lessons based on their losses. well, the blue states did.
having settled that, why don't you comment about Governor DeSantis ALSO lying about the numbers, but ALSO making it impossible for Floridians to be safe?
Until all the northerners stop coming down here infecting the locals I will not answer your premise. Some northerners have been staying in their winter homes for a year now afraid to go back north. Some Canadians stayed doen here until they were forced to go back to Canada or lose their health insurance, Many CANADIANS flew to Florida only to get the shot. Had to fly because Canada and the USA would not let them drive here. The Federal Government paid for their shots because they owned property in the states....... i am not following you.
DeSantis has not made it illegal for Northerners to come to Florida, he has made it illegal for Floridians to protect themselves against that fact.
so until YOUR GOVERNOR imposes travel restrictions, I would ask you to answer the question.
thanks
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 14, 2021 6:32:43 GMT -5
I am not referencing tourists. We know most were locked down by Canada as well as the U.S. at the border. There have been hundreds of articles about cross border travel just over the border in both directions that businesses have basically been put out of business because they are there to serve cross border communities with their services. I am talking about Canadians who own property in the states. You will be surprised how many Canadians own homes or condos in Arizona and Florida. This is a big business and hundreds of millions of dollars exchange hands on property transactions with Canadians every year. Many snowbird Canadians mark their calandars when they leave Canada so they do not spend one day over six months in the states due to Canadian health restrictions of overstaying their time here. On my street alone, two individualCanadian homeowner/residents do no longer use Canadian health insurance as they live here fulltime. Three other owners are six month winter residents. The cross border restrictions shutdown Americans owning their summer or winter residences in Canada also.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Oct 14, 2021 8:13:55 GMT -5
So, if they have not been traveling back and forth, they are living in Florida. I do not see what that has to do with the spike of infections in Florida then. They would have contracted the disease in Florida.
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