Aging, losing income and deteriorating houses

[Deleted]

I originally posted this on another thread, but I think a separate thread is going to work best.  As stated in my original post, this is NOT POLITICAL, but an attempt to find real-time solutions to a problem.  

Going back to the discussion of folks who live on reduced incomes as they age and lose a spouse, I've witnessed a lot of problems related to this in my neighborhood. People age and houses do too, so what's the solution for 80+ year old plus neighbors with 60+ year old houses who can't afford to maintain them to even a minimum standard? No money, no family. I get that they want to live in their homes, I get that they don't have $$ for other places. But, I also get that their neighbors are living with overgrown, dilapidated, rat infested structures dragging down their property values.



No one wants to report someone to senior protective services, and there are few if any places allowing pets which are very often the only companionship these folks have.



I'm not trying to start a fight or a political debate! But this situation is a reality now; we don't all have kids and grandkids to take care of stuff. We don't have family but we have $$ and the cognitive ability to recognize when it's time to find another way to live. A lot of folks aren't that lucky.

[Opti]

Its not an easy problem to solve and it needs to be solved locally instead of statewide or even at the federal level. There are people who live on reduced incomes at all ages because of job loss. McD's mcjob is not going to save most people's homes whether they are 80 or 40 or some other age.

Part of the answer is affordable housing. Part of the answer might be charities like those home makeover shows. The unfortunate reality is instead of being saved, most of these people get their homes condemned or bought by a flipper, and the neighborhood rarely cares or thinks what happens to them. MO. Your experience might be different. (Speaking as a woman who had to sell her house at a loss due to a layoff and lack of income.)

P.S. I still don't have affordable housing. Its been more than a decade of looking and applying.

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2021 18:34:03 GMT -5 @donethat said:

No one wants to report someone to senior protective services, and there are few if any places allowing pets which are very often the only companionship these folks have.

But I think that IS the answer.  Living in places infested with vermin and leaking roofs, plumbing that doesn't work, isn't healthy for them OR their pets.  I watched a season of Hoarders and not all of the people were old but they were in unsafe conditions, rats in the house, peeing in a bucket, no running water, etc.

And the earlier the better, while they still have some equity in the house.  

[Deleted]

This may not exactly answer your questions, but Habitat for Humanity has an “Aging in Place” program. My Mom used it to have some work done on the house my Grandmother left.

It’s my understanding that it’s meant to help seniors that are capable of living at home, do so.

At my Grandmother/Mom’s house, they replaced the roof and exterior doors. Replaced or installed at least 1 window unit a/c (maybe both, I’m not sure). Changed the kitchen and bathroom faucets to ones with handles instead of knobs, since handles are easier for many seniors to use. Those are the things I can think of off the top of my head, I’m likely forgetting some things. In all, it was $17,000 worth of work. None of it was for cosmetics, it was all repairs and changes that helped things function better for seniors.

Because they replaced the roof and replaced or installed window a/c units, I imagine the program includes necessary repairs to the home. But it’s all moot if the homeowner’s mental or physical capabilities are such that they can’t continue living in their home. I just thought I’d mention it because I believe it can help some seniors that can continue living in their homes but don’t have the resources to do some of the things that need to be done to their house.

[finnime]

I like the kind of solution Pink describes. It addresses the real need with dignity. I imagine it would be frightening and humiliating to have a roof that leaks badly and be unable to replace it because there simply is not the money to do it.

People who are living on a fixed income stretched to the maximum with everyday expenses should not have to lose their homes or live in unclean or unsafe conditions. And communities should not ignore or suffer deteriorated housing for neighbors, which affects their own home's value and safety.

It would be great if there were some universally available fund for repairs to property owned and lived in by older people on the financial edge. Keeping housing free from rats while retaining functional plumbing and electricity helps everyone.

[Tennesseer]

Jun 10, 2021 18:54:31 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

This may not exactly answer your questions, but Habitat for Humanity has an “Aging in Place” program. My Mom used it to have some work done on the house my Grandmother left.

It’s my understanding that it’s meant to help seniors that are capable of living at home, do so.

At my Grandmother/Mom’s house, they replaced the roof and exterior doors. Replaced or installed at least 1 window unit a/c (maybe both, I’m not sure). Changed the kitchen and bathroom faucets to ones with handles instead of knobs, since handles are easier for many seniors to use. Those are the things I can think of off the top of my head, I’m likely forgetting some things. In all, it was $17,000 worth of work. None of it was for cosmetics, it was all repairs and changes that helped things function better for seniors.

Because they replaced the roof and replaced or installed window a/c units, I imagine the program includes necessary repairs to the home. But it’s all moot if the homeowner’s mental or physical capabilities are such that they can’t continue living in their home. I just thought I’d mention it because I believe it can help some seniors that can continue living in their homes but don’t have the resources to do some of the things that need to be done to their house.

The highlighted would be me. In addition to the faucets, I have changed all the door knobs to door levers. Push down on the lever and the door opens.

And the door levers benefit everyone regardless of age. Hands and arms full from carrying something? Push down on the lever with your elbow.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

I think we should help these people to age in place, if that is what they want and it can be done safely. I think the elderly are important members of the community And we should help keep them in the community.

I like the idea of the habitat program. I think we could look at developing other programs too. Maybe trade unions/schools could partner to do the labor on the homes that need skilled labor. This would give people learning the trades an opportunity to get experience under a skilled craftsman while the resident gets their homes upgraded for low cost or free.

One of the biggest costs of repairs is labor. If the trades schools were doing the labor, the cost would be relatively low (just the skilled craftsman/teacher). Maybe the govt of a local charity could bankroll that and materials.

This would expand the habitat program so your labor isn’t volunteers but apprentice tradesmen/women who are also learning. It would be more consistent than volunteers who do it in their free time

[jerseygirl]

There are many programs to help people repair their houses. But these programs all require understanding these are available and being competent to fill in paperwork deal with bureaucracy etc
My sister was disabled and learning disabled but wanted to continue living in her condo, I had resources to pay for a 24/7 help ( and find a wonderful woman) and was able to get county to pay for installation of new air conditioner needed for her health and get very poor condition windows replaced. But it was a lot of time and detailed back and forth between county, contractor, town etc. A lien was out on house that would go away in 10 years - fair enough. I was very grateful for this but really an old frail confused person couldn’t use the program. Sister passed away in 5 years and lien to county paid from sale of the condo
So many programs to help people but so much difficulty using them - read countrygirl’s continuing problems trying to deal with her MIL programs snd paperwork
Just remembering makes my head hurt

[kadee79]

There are some groups that do these things in some communities.  And there are even church groups that also do it.  We have had a couple of church youth groups from up north come down here & do repairs on senior's homes.  There are also a couple of local men's clubs that do simple things like building ramps for wheel chairs or fixing minor items like the faucets in houses, etc. 
Some stores like Lowes or HD might know which groups are active in their areas or contact some of the bigger churches.

[pulmonarymd]

See, I disagreed with the idea that we should keep them in these places. No one guaranteed that you could live in your home forever. If you cannot afford to live there, then you need to sell and find an affordable place(and downsize). More importantly, if people age, they frequently are living in an unsafe environment. Reporting them if the houses fall into disrepair will likely improve their living situation and safety.

[Opti]

Jun 10, 2021 19:25:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 10, 2021 18:54:31 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

This may not exactly answer your questions, but Habitat for Humanity has an “Aging in Place” program. My Mom used it to have some work done on the house my Grandmother left.

It’s my understanding that it’s meant to help seniors that are capable of living at home, do so.

At my Grandmother/Mom’s house, they replaced the roof and exterior doors. Replaced or installed at least 1 window unit a/c (maybe both, I’m not sure). Changed the kitchen and bathroom faucets to ones with handles instead of knobs, since handles are easier for many seniors to use. Those are the things I can think of off the top of my head, I’m likely forgetting some things. In all, it was $17,000 worth of work. None of it was for cosmetics, it was all repairs and changes that helped things function better for seniors.

Because they replaced the roof and replaced or installed window a/c units, I imagine the program includes necessary repairs to the home. But it’s all moot if the homeowner’s mental or physical capabilities are such that they can’t continue living in their home. I just thought I’d mention it because I believe it can help some seniors that can continue living in their homes but don’t have the resources to do some of the things that need to be done to their house.

The highlighted would be me. In addition to the faucets, I have changed all the door knobs to door levers. Push down on the lever and the door opens.

And the door levers benefit everyone regardless of age. Hands and arms full from carrying something? Push down on the lever with your elbow.

I do think door levers are a great idea, especially inside a home. They are easier to use when hands are full or mostly full. 

[Tiny]

Sherman! Set the WayBack Machine for 1990!

My city was mostly inhabited by the generation that fought WWII. The bulk of the houses were built between 1940 and 1955 or so. The houses were bought by young families leaving their "Old Neighborhoods" behind.

Fast forward to the 1990's. Those young men and women have become Older men and women. Many of them are living on pensions and/or SS. Their kids have moved away. Their homes (that they took pride in for decades) are starting to fall into disrepair OR are just getting worn out.

Many of this older generation are appalled by how much it costs to call to have someone come and fix their homes. In the past they did it themselves or their relative or their neighbor had the neccessay DIY skills to fix the drain or paint or keep the furnace working.  But they are too old to do the repair and their neighbor is just as old or has died or moved away. The new neighbors aren't as handy as the old generation (they don't know how to fix stuff and don't have the tools). 
 
Many of them are a little frightened by the fact that their pension and/or SS didn't keep up with the cost of living.

I saw this First Hand as the Old people either died in their home or had family who helped them move away or into assisted living. If the old person had no one - it was usually a neighbor or the mailman (or the gas meter reader) who reported the old person's living conditions to the City in order to get them help.

When I was buying my first home (in 1997) I joked that I was patiently waiting (vulturing) for an owner to die - and that it shouldn't take too many weeks for me to find the right "fixer upper" as there was a constant trickle of houses coming on the market. In fact, I found out about the house I bought, because a neighbor of the house knew I was looking and called me the day after the little old lady who owned the house died.

During the 90's and 00's my city had lots of PSAs about 'watching out for your elderly neighbor' what to look for (if they were having difficulties) and who to call/what to do.

The general gist of this is you can't rely on the person who is in trouble to ask for or to look for help. They won't. You need their "community" be it their neighbors or their church or their friends to speak up and either communicate with that person's family (who is not living near by) OR to communicate with whatever elder services are available locally.

I've got some "horror stories" from quite a few houses in my immediate area... Usually, it's a single Elder (often a woman) who has no family left in the area, and who's life long friends have either died or moved away that gets into the worse trouble. They literally have no one.   They aren't hoarders. They aren't a bad person. They are often just afraid, old, and alone and often with limited money resources.      Oh.  and a paid off house.      

(this is why I don't quite get the "warm fuzzy" or "security" of having a paid off house - you can't sell a few bricks or some siding when you are old and need to do some big repair to it.    ) 

[Tiny]

After that long post...

My city (and county) has a way to freeze property taxes - but you have to meet the criteria AND apply for it every year.

My city offers 0% loans to elderly/fixed income homeowners so that a roof or furnace can be replaced or so other big ticket maintenance things can be done.

My city offers many services for seniors - but you have to know about them (advertisements for them are included in the quarterly water bill mailing) AND you have to be brave enough to call and then use the services.

You would be amazed how many older people "don't want to be a burden" or who think "that's not for me" or "how will I get there I don't drive". It's really hard to ask for help.

I don't think there are many 80 and older somethings in my city of 50K these days.  

I've noticed the City is focusing more on people with low incomes - how to best offer them help or connect them to aid or help or sometimes just to help families on a block connect with each other (so that neighbors can help neighbors).   It's not so much aimed at the elderly.  


The problem is still the same (the issue in the OP isn't new).  Just the faces and perhaps the ages have changed.

[tskeeter]

Jun 10, 2021 18:34:03 GMT -5 @donethat said:

I originally posted this on another thread, but I think a separate thread is going to work best.  As stated in my original post, this is NOT POLITICAL, but an attempt to find real-time solutions to a problem.  

Going back to the discussion of folks who live on reduced incomes as they age and lose a spouse, I've witnessed a lot of problems related to this in my neighborhood. People age and houses do too, so what's the solution for 80+ year old plus neighbors with 60+ year old houses who can't afford to maintain them to even a minimum standard? No money, no family. I get that they want to live in their homes, I get that they don't have $$ for other places. But, I also get that their neighbors are living with overgrown, dilapidated, rat infested structures dragging down their property values.



No one wants to report someone to senior protective services, and there are few if any places allowing pets which are very often the only companionship these folks have.



I'm not trying to start a fight or a political debate! But this situation is a reality now; we don't all have kids and grandkids to take care of stuff. We don't have family but we have $$ and the cognitive ability to recognize when it's time to find another way to live. A lot of folks aren't that lucky.

As I watched my Dad age, the declining maintenance on the house wasn’t a question of financial resources.  It was really an issue of declining ability to do the things he had always done.  The hose bib on the back of the house leaked for so long it rotted the siding.  All for the want of a $1.50 repair kit.  Years of not cleaning the siding meant that the house and garage were accumulating a good coating of mildew (dang Portland climate).  The lawn was growing into weed filled flower beds.  The house needed a thorough cleaning and a coat of paint and freshening on the inside.  All things that were immaculately maintained when he was younger.

Dad could easily afford to hire someone to handle these things.  He just couldn’t bring himself to pay people to do things that he was used to doing. And he didn’t want to burden the kids with doing a bunch of work at his house. So a host of little repairs and maintenance chores went undone.  (Dad did replace the leaking roof after my sister got quotes from three contractors and told him to pick one.)

Tiny makes an excellent point about the challenges women experience maintaining homes.  Often, home maintenance has been handled by the husband.  When women lose their spouse, many don’t know the home maintenance routines, how to make small repairs, or who to hire to get repairs done.  So things slowly fall into a state of disrepair.  (Similar things happen when a man loses his wife.  But it’s usually not maintenance of the house.)

[giramomma]

Let's talk more about how reporting an elderly person to the authorities works.

Like what happens if authorities intervene? Assuming the elderly person is fully competent and able-bodied ( they can bathe/dress themselves, safely drive to the store to buy groceries, cook/feed themselves).., the elderly person can still decide not to comply. How do the authorities force a sound-minded adult to do something against their will? Do the authorities take over money of the elderly person and put down first/last months rent on an apartment and then force the elderly person to move in to an apartment the authorities have found?

How do the authorities gain ownership of the house and sell it? What about the contents? Do they just make the decisions on behalf of the elderly person? Do authorities keep the money from the sale of the house and the contents? Or is that given to the elderly person?

[Opti]

Jun 10, 2021 22:05:44 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Sherman! Set the WayBack Machine for 1990!

My city was mostly inhabited by the generation that fought WWII. The bulk of the houses were built between 1940 and 1955 or so. The houses were bought by young families leaving their "Old Neighborhoods" behind.

Fast forward to the 1990's. Those young men and women have become Older men and women. Many of them are living on pensions and/or SS. Their kids have moved away. Their homes (that they took pride in for decades) are starting to fall into disrepair OR are just getting worn out.

Many of this older generation are appalled by how much it costs to call to have someone come and fix their homes. In the past they did it themselves or their relative or their neighbor had the neccessay DIY skills to fix the drain or paint or keep the furnace working.  But they are too old to do the repair and their neighbor is just as old or has died or moved away. The new neighbors aren't as handy as the old generation (they don't know how to fix stuff and don't have the tools). 
 
Many of them are a little frightened by the fact that their pension and/or SS didn't keep up with the cost of living.

I saw this First Hand as the Old people either died in their home or had family who helped them move away or into assisted living. If the old person had no one - it was usually a neighbor or the mailman (or the gas meter reader) who reported the old person's living conditions to the City in order to get them help.

When I was buying my first home (in 1997) I joked that I was patiently waiting (vulturing) for an owner to die - and that it shouldn't take too many weeks for me to find the right "fixer upper" as there was a constant trickle of houses coming on the market. In fact, I found out about the house I bought, because a neighbor of the house knew I was looking and called me the day after the little old lady who owned the house died.

During the 90's and 00's my city had lots of PSAs about 'watching out for your elderly neighbor' what to look for (if they were having difficulties) and who to call/what to do.

The general gist of this is you can't rely on the person who is in trouble to ask for or to look for help. They won't. You need their "community" be it their neighbors or their church or their friends to speak up and either communicate with that person's family (who is not living near by) OR to communicate with whatever elder services are available locally.

I've got some "horror stories" from quite a few houses in my immediate area... Usually, it's a single Elder (often a woman) who has no family left in the area, and who's life long friends have either died or moved away that gets into the worse trouble. They literally have no one.   They aren't hoarders. They aren't a bad person. They are often just afraid, old, and alone and often with limited money resources.      Oh.  and a paid off house.      

(this is why I don't quite get the "warm fuzzy" or "security" of having a paid off house - you can't sell a few bricks or some siding when you are old and need to do some big repair to it.    ) 

To me it isn't a warm fuzzy because its much like an old paid off car. There are still financial obligations when keeping a house and keeping a car (unless you don't drive the car at all). You still have to pay property taxes, home insurance, and maintenance costs. A few years ago I remember an older church member wondering if she should sell her home because she thought property taxes were too high at about $600/mo. Since she had been in a home so long, she had no idea there would be no apartment available in her area for that little, and even affording a room to rent would not be a guarantee. I told her she'd be better staying in the house unless she planned to sell and move to a cheaper state.

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2021 21:07:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

See, I disagreed with the idea that we should keep them in these places. No one guaranteed that you could live in your home forever. If you cannot afford to live there, then you need to sell and find an affordable place(and downsize). More importantly, if people age, they frequently are living in an unsafe environment. Reporting them if the houses fall into disrepair will likely improve their living situation and safety.

I share your hard-nosed, practical point of view and hope to be able to act accordingly but it takes resources to downsize.  As Opt4coolcar's post pointed out, sometimes the fixed cost of living in a paid-off house is very affordable compared to the cost of downsizing so people stay in a place they can't maintain.  Sometimes they're not mentally able to face reality and sometimes they're overwhelmed by paperwork or there are long waiting lists for senior housing.  Habitat for Humanity or church projects fix what's needed but they aren't permanent solutions. 

We have a retired doctor in our neighborhood- apparently partly disabled in a car accident, did expert witness work for awhile, and he does the bare minimum to maintain his lot.  It does get mowed but there are weeds in the flower beds, the fence is rotting and the city had to clean up all the crap in his back yard. The next-door neighbor is thinking of selling and a realtor told him the mess next door could reduce the sale price of his house by $20-$30K.  A neighbor who's a former fire chief said they did a welfare check on him and the interior was such a mess that they noted that if there's a fire they should focus on saving him and the nearby houses- but not his structure.

I've also got a HS friend who was widowed a few years ago and classmates in the area tell me she's relying on her son-in-law to keep the place up when she really needs to move.

As baby boomers age, including many with few resources, we're going to need more low-income senior housing, hopefully some that will provide a community even if it's a communal rec room in a condo complex, and we'll need support to encourage people to sell and move before the house has deteriorated so much the equity is diminished (or, heaven forbid, they listened to Henry Winkler and took out a reverse mortgage).

[mamasita99]

[/quote]To me it isn't a warm fuzzy because its much like an old paid off car. There are still financial obligations when keeping a house and keeping a car (unless you don't drive the car at all). You still have to pay property taxes, home insurance, and maintenance costs. A few years ago I remember an older church member wondering if she should sell her home because she thought property taxes were too high at about $600/mo. Since she had been in a home so long, she had no idea there would be no apartment available in her area for that little, and even affording a room to rent would not be a guarantee. I told her she'd be better staying in the house unless she planned to sell and move to a cheaper state.[/quote]

My parents are getting to the point that they are browsing senior options. They just need to find an affordable, appropriate alternative. I think their quality of life would be better without an aging home to worry about, but it’s hard to make such a big change.

[buystoys]

Jun 10, 2021 19:25:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 10, 2021 18:54:31 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

This may not exactly answer your questions, but Habitat for Humanity has an “Aging in Place” program. My Mom used it to have some work done on the house my Grandmother left.

It’s my understanding that it’s meant to help seniors that are capable of living at home, do so.

At my Grandmother/Mom’s house, they replaced the roof and exterior doors. Replaced or installed at least 1 window unit a/c (maybe both, I’m not sure). Changed the kitchen and bathroom faucets to ones with handles instead of knobs, since handles are easier for many seniors to use. Those are the things I can think of off the top of my head, I’m likely forgetting some things. In all, it was $17,000 worth of work. None of it was for cosmetics, it was all repairs and changes that helped things function better for seniors.

Because they replaced the roof and replaced or installed window a/c units, I imagine the program includes necessary repairs to the home. But it’s all moot if the homeowner’s mental or physical capabilities are such that they can’t continue living in their home. I just thought I’d mention it because I believe it can help some seniors that can continue living in their homes but don’t have the resources to do some of the things that need to be done to their house.

The highlighted would be me. In addition to the faucets, I have changed all the door knobs to door levers. Push down on the lever and the door opens.

And the door levers benefit everyone regardless of age. Hands and arms full from carrying something? Push down on the lever with your elbow.

We did that to all our doors when we moved here.  It's been really helpful more times than I can count.

[Opti]

Jun 11, 2021 6:16:32 GMT -5 mamasita99 said:

To me it isn't a warm fuzzy because its much like an old paid off car. There are still financial obligations when keeping a house and keeping a car (unless you don't drive the car at all). You still have to pay property taxes, home insurance, and maintenance costs. A few years ago I remember an older church member wondering if she should sell her home because she thought property taxes were too high at about $600/mo. Since she had been in a home so long, she had no idea there would be no apartment available in her area for that little, and even affording a room to rent would not be a guarantee. I told her she'd be better staying in the house unless she planned to sell and move to a cheaper state.[/quote]

My parents are getting to the point that they are browsing senior options. They just need to find an affordable, appropriate alternative. I think their quality of life would be better without an aging home to worry about, but it’s hard to make such a big change. [/quote][/i]

You need to have some money, but there are many senior living complexes in NJ and it can be cheaper than your house especially if you lived in a northern pricey house and downsize to a smaller place in central or south NJ. That can be a tough sell unless you have family in the area you plan to move to. I remember a woman who moved her loved one to another facility at least an hour away. They sold their home in this area and she bought something there. She did have some friends and family in the new area, but occasionally she would pop by and say hi. She almost always shared how she missed her old stomping grounds and even visiting our facility. Cheaper is cheaper, and sometimes it doesn't get you much more than that. I'm not sure if her husband cared much one way or the other, but she did.

FWIW, I've seen many departures from the dementia floor due to $$$, and some of them have been moves down the coast to Florida, Georgia or some such. Dementia care and Assisted Living is serious money. They are lucky to have family willing to move them to these places and visit them. Many declined during the pandemic because of the lack of interaction with their loved ones. 

[azucena]

Our across the street neighbors both use a walker, and DH and I have to turn away when we see them creeping along because one of these days we're going to witness a fall.  Last week, I noticed their trunk was open as I pulled into my driveway.  I went across to investigate because I was concerned.  The wife was bringing in grocery bags in a baby umbrella stroller by pushing it in front of her walker <gasp>.  She asked if I had heard her muttering prayers to herself.  I took the last couple of loads to the door, but she wouldn't let me in.  I could tell that their house is stacked up inside.  I gave her my cell number and said any of us 4 would be happy to help next time.  She laughed it off and is too independent to use it.

They are scary drivers too but go to mass every morning.  I've told the kids specifically to watch out for their car.

They have been in this neighborhood over 50 yrs so house is likely paid off.  They have a lawn company come once a week and had two huge trees removed last summer.  So at least have some money to keep up with repairs.  I mostly worry about them falling.

[Opti]

This is just one of the many reasons I'd prefer to save all people and make things more fair. We no longer live in a US where you get one job as an adult and have the opportunity to work it and perhaps get promoted before you retire. That world is mostly dead, and has been dead for most of my college cohort, the tail end baby boomers, for many many years. I think this needs to be looked at from a non ageist POV.

There are many people losing income who have deteriorating homes or can't afford their rent. I expect to see foreclosures and evictions spike across the country once the legal protections expire. I think these thoughts for many reasons, and here is one of them.


www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/a-delivery-driver-filmed-his-heartbreaking-reaction-to-getting-a-1-19-tip-on-an-hour-long-food-run/ar-AAKUPZH?ocid=msedgntp
Video in link, but a good reminder that many of these gig jobs can be a losing proposition financially. Hopefully he didn't do one of those buy a car and Uber or Uber Eats promos, because that will really hurt and leave credit history tracks potential employers will find and judge probably before even talking to the guy.

[nidena]

When I lived in Tacoma, WA back at the turn of the century, they had a program called Paint Tacoma and it was for just that: taking care of homes of seniors who could no longer do so.  I think it was a partner program for Habitat because the teams were all volunteers from local groups--our military squadron volunteered a few times--and churches.  But it was a one-time spruce-up not on-going maintenance.

[Lizard Queen]

Jun 10, 2021 23:15:31 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Let's talk more about how reporting an elderly person to the authorities works.

Like what happens if authorities intervene? Assuming the elderly person is fully competent and able-bodied ( they can bathe/dress themselves, safely drive to the store to buy groceries, cook/feed themselves).., the elderly person can still decide not to comply. How do the authorities force a sound-minded adult to do something against their will? Do the authorities take over money of the elderly person and put down first/last months rent on an apartment and then force the elderly person to move in to an apartment the authorities have found?

How do the authorities gain ownership of the house and sell it? What about the contents? Do they just make the decisions on behalf of the elderly person? Do authorities keep the money from the sale of the house and the contents? Or is that given to the elderly person?

Fully competent and able-bodied--they don't. It's hard for them to step in when they are not these things.

As far as the house, the city can step in for code enforcement. Doesn't seem to do much until the house is extremely damaged.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 11, 2021 9:02:22 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jun 10, 2021 23:15:31 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Let's talk more about how reporting an elderly person to the authorities works.

Like what happens if authorities intervene? Assuming the elderly person is fully competent and able-bodied ( they can bathe/dress themselves, safely drive to the store to buy groceries, cook/feed themselves).., the elderly person can still decide not to comply. How do the authorities force a sound-minded adult to do something against their will? Do the authorities take over money of the elderly person and put down first/last months rent on an apartment and then force the elderly person to move in to an apartment the authorities have found?

How do the authorities gain ownership of the house and sell it? What about the contents? Do they just make the decisions on behalf of the elderly person? Do authorities keep the money from the sale of the house and the contents? Or is that given to the elderly person?

Fully competent and able-bodied--they don't. It's hard for them to step in when they are not these things.

As far as the house, the city can step in for code enforcement. Doesn't seem to do much until the house is extremely damaged.

Thing is my grandma ain't competent but by all the medical tests she is. She passed with flying colors.

Her behavior is a complete 180 with us and my great uncle. It's manipulative but the game has gotten to the point where she's done harm to herself. Her expectation to be catered to and refusal to do PT on top of already living with cebreal palsy has resulted in enough atrophy she can barely walk.

But she clears medically. She's of sound mind and could live into her 100s.

My dad did forcibly move her to my great uncle's house easy to do when she weighs less than me. However he's just as bad.

So much for all those church people who called my parents to harass them for daring to go on vacation. Calling my dad a bad relative Why don't they help if they are such good Christians?

We've had to start accepting the inevitable. I'm worried my parents will go first and I'll inherit them. It's not a money issue it's they refuse to accept they are old. They refuse to accept my dad is an only child and has a right to his own life.

They will likely go out in a massive wreck because GU drives without a license or in a house fire they can't get out of. I'm just hoping they don't take anyone else out with them.

My mom is trying to find a way for my dad to legally take over but hasn't found anything. She passed all the legal check Mark's and so does he.

I get we don't want to be able to forcibly commit healthy old people so daughter can collect her inheritance but there really needs to be better services for the elderly people between that and blowing up the stove.

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2021 19:25:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 10, 2021 18:54:31 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

This may not exactly answer your questions, but Habitat for Humanity has an “Aging in Place” program. My Mom used it to have some work done on the house my Grandmother left.

It’s my understanding that it’s meant to help seniors that are capable of living at home, do so.

At my Grandmother/Mom’s house, they replaced the roof and exterior doors. Replaced or installed at least 1 window unit a/c (maybe both, I’m not sure). Changed the kitchen and bathroom faucets to ones with handles instead of knobs, since handles are easier for many seniors to use. Those are the things I can think of off the top of my head, I’m likely forgetting some things. In all, it was $17,000 worth of work. None of it was for cosmetics, it was all repairs and changes that helped things function better for seniors.

Because they replaced the roof and replaced or installed window a/c units, I imagine the program includes necessary repairs to the home. But it’s all moot if the homeowner’s mental or physical capabilities are such that they can’t continue living in their home. I just thought I’d mention it because I believe it can help some seniors that can continue living in their homes but don’t have the resources to do some of the things that need to be done to their house.

The highlighted would be me. In addition to the faucets, I have changed all the door knobs to door levers. Push down on the lever and the door opens.

And the door levers benefit everyone regardless of age. Hands and arms full from carrying something? Push down on the lever with your elbow.

They also benefit dogs. Our dog has learned to jump on our bedroom door and open it. She usually does it while we’re at work, but she did it a couple nights ago, in the middle of the night. It woke me up. 

[Lizard Queen]

Jun 11, 2021 9:20:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 11, 2021 9:02:22 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Fully competent and able-bodied--they don't. It's hard for them to step in when they are not these things.

As far as the house, the city can step in for code enforcement. Doesn't seem to do much until the house is extremely damaged.

Thing is my grandma ain't competent but by all the medical tests she is. She passed with flying colors.

Her behavior is a complete 180 with us and my great uncle. It's manipulative but the game has gotten to the point where she's done harm to herself. Her expectation to be catered to and refusal to do PT on top of already living with cebreal palsy has resulted in enough atrophy she can barely walk.

But she clears medically. She's of sound mind and could live into her 100s.

My dad did forcibly move her to my great uncle's house easy to do when she weighs less than me. However he's just as bad.

So much for all those church people who called my parents to harass them for daring to go on vacation. Calling my dad a bad relative Why don't they help if they are such good Christians?

We've had to start accepting the inevitable. I'm worried my parents will go first and I'll inherit them. It's not a money issue it's they refuse to accept they are old. They refuse to accept my dad is an only child and has a right to his own life.

They will likely go out in a massive wreck because GU drives without a license or in a house fire they can't get out of. I'm just hoping they don't take anyone else out with them.

My mom is trying to find a way for my dad to legally take over but hasn't found anything. She passed all the legal check Mark's and so does he.

I get we don't want to be able to forcibly commit healthy old people so daughter can collect her inheritance but there really needs to be better services for the elderly people between that and blowing up the stove.

Giving up your own life in order to cater to elderly who want to stay in their old home--yup, BTDT, got the hit to my career and my sanity.

[Tennesseer]

Jun 11, 2021 9:24:03 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jun 10, 2021 19:25:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The highlighted would be me. In addition to the faucets, I have changed all the door knobs to door levers. Push down on the lever and the door opens.

And the door levers benefit everyone regardless of age. Hands and arms full from carrying something? Push down on the lever with your elbow.

They also benefit dogs. Our dog has learned to jump on our bedroom door and open it. She usually does it while we’re at work, but she did it a couple nights ago, in the middle of the night. It woke me up. 

I have thought about that. I have multiple cats in the home. Due to groups not getting along one group has the run of the house for 12 hours and the other group then has the same amount of time.

The are closed in a bedroom when it is not their turn to be loose in the house. It does worry me a little bit that the yearlings (locked in a bedroom from 9 p.m. to 9 a.m.) could figure out the handle and escape the room.

All hell would break loose.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 11, 2021 9:40:07 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jun 11, 2021 9:20:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Thing is my grandma ain't competent but by all the medical tests she is. She passed with flying colors.

Her behavior is a complete 180 with us and my great uncle. It's manipulative but the game has gotten to the point where she's done harm to herself. Her expectation to be catered to and refusal to do PT on top of already living with cebreal palsy has resulted in enough atrophy she can barely walk.

But she clears medically. She's of sound mind and could live into her 100s.

My dad did forcibly move her to my great uncle's house easy to do when she weighs less than me. However he's just as bad.

So much for all those church people who called my parents to harass them for daring to go on vacation. Calling my dad a bad relative Why don't they help if they are such good Christians?

We've had to start accepting the inevitable. I'm worried my parents will go first and I'll inherit them. It's not a money issue it's they refuse to accept they are old. They refuse to accept my dad is an only child and has a right to his own life.

They will likely go out in a massive wreck because GU drives without a license or in a house fire they can't get out of. I'm just hoping they don't take anyone else out with them.

My mom is trying to find a way for my dad to legally take over but hasn't found anything. She passed all the legal check Mark's and so does he.

I get we don't want to be able to forcibly commit healthy old people so daughter can collect her inheritance but there really needs to be better services for the elderly people between that and blowing up the stove.

Giving up your own life in order to cater to elderly who want to stay in their old home--yup, BTDT, got the hit to my career and my sanity.

Yeah my dad was starting down that path till he saw with his own eyes the game my grandma was playing.

He's not going to neglect her but has decided if they want to play Whatever Happened to Baby Jane then that's their choice. We'll do what we have to do legally but we're not giving up our lives.

For now at least. They are working on.what happens the day there is no choice.

We really need better options in this country for people like my grandma. This mentality that the child is supposed to give up everything to cater to her stubborn old ass is not effective.

Look at what women leaving in droves right now to take care of kids and old people is doing to the workforce. It'll set women's progress back years according to several studies.

Granted right now is a unique situation. But people like my grandma aren't. Their refusal to accept they are old should not be at the expense of my future.

But it's cheaper and allows people who aren't in the situation to turn a blind eye. To feel superior because "they" prepared or so they think.

I agree with Biden that our elder care system is in need of massive reform. The way we do it now has been shown not to be sustainable. It's crazy to me it took a global pandemic for people to acknowledge that.

[Bonny]

Jun 10, 2021 23:15:31 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Let's talk more about how reporting an elderly person to the authorities works.

Like what happens if authorities intervene? Assuming the elderly person is fully competent and able-bodied ( they can bathe/dress themselves, safely drive to the store to buy groceries, cook/feed themselves).., the elderly person can still decide not to comply. How do the authorities force a sound-minded adult to do something against their will? Do the authorities take over money of the elderly person and put down first/last months rent on an apartment and then force the elderly person to move in to an apartment the authorities have found?

How do the authorities gain ownership of the house and sell it? What about the contents? Do they just make the decisions on behalf of the elderly person? Do authorities keep the money from the sale of the house and the contents? Or is that given to the elderly person?

It's a very high bar and long legal process to get someone to be declared incompetent, and rightly so.

For those of you who followed my journey in the Elderly parent support thread pinned above. It wasn't until my father broke bones for a third time that the doctor at the skilled nursing facility wouldn't release him back to his home. His 84 year old girlfriend had issues of her own, including what I believe was undiagnosed dementia. Seeing my father's "room" in the house was shocking. It obviously had not been cleaned in over a decade but she covered for him by saying it was only a year or so.   

It's also a resource issue. We tried to get Dad into assisted living when the girlfriend said she couldn't take care of him. It was a disaster and he was non compliant. It took the crisis of another fall to force the issue.

And don't get me started on MIL. Smart, stubbron people know how to play the game. It's another crisis in the making.

I say this every time "Please God when it comes my time let me be kind to the people who are trying to help me".