Back to "Normal" or "New Normal"

[pulmonarymd]

I wonder if Canada will let unvaccinated Americans visit this summer?

[TheOtherMe]

ca.travelpulse.com/news/impacting-travel/trudeau-says-border-opening-and-vaccine-passports-being-discussed-by-ottawa.html

Canadian tourism and travel industry officials have said they need a general plan from Ottawa so they can plan for their summer season.



On the issue of vaccine passports, Trudeau made it sound like they're almost a foregone conclusion.

As of now, the border between the US and Canada is closed

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 30, 2021 8:50:33 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

ca.travelpulse.com/news/impacting-travel/trudeau-says-border-opening-and-vaccine-passports-being-discussed-by-ottawa.html

Canadian tourism and travel industry officials have said they need a general plan from Ottawa so they can plan for their summer season.



On the issue of vaccine passports, Trudeau made it sound like they're almost a foregone conclusion.

As of now, the border between the US and Canada is closed

I knew it was closed. Just wondering if later will agree with banning unvaccinated Americans from visiting if Canada decides to go that route(which I suspected they would, and think we should too).

[raeoflyte]

I want us to have more info on how protected vaccinated people are, and how likely we are to spread it to non-vaccibated. I keep seeing different things, and the pollyanna in me wants to believe the stuff I find, but dh is mr. Worst case scenario and counters anything I find.

My mom is crazy high risk. She gets hospitalized for colds and flu, and has an immune disorder, we have to keep her safe. And my kids can't get vaccinated yet, so we're still doing outdoor masked visits with them. I can't even sit next to her outside yet. I am getting a little doom and gloom that I never will.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 30, 2021 10:10:34 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I want us to have more info on how protected vaccinated people are, and how likely we are to spread it to non-vaccibated. I keep seeing different things, and the pollyanna in me wants to believe the stuff I find, but dh is mr. Worst case scenario and counters anything I find.

My mom is crazy high risk. She gets hospitalized for colds and flu, and has an immune disorder, we have to keep her safe. And my kids can't get vaccinated yet, so we're still doing outdoor masked visits with them. I can't even sit next to her outside yet. I am getting a little doom and gloom that I never will.

The vaccine decreases the chance of being hospitalized for coronavirus by 94% for those over 65. Quite effective
Transplant recipients have a less than 50% response to the vaccine. Not so good.

If you have a "normal" immune system, you appear to be well protected(for how long is unknown at present).
If your immune system is not normal, it appears you remain quite susceptible(what that means is unclear as well).

How long immunity last is an open question. If vaccinated people can spread the disease is an open question(but based on what we are seeing, I suspect not).

In summary, normal people will likely have very little risk. Medically fragile people will have some, and in some cases substantial risk. How we respond to those facts will tell us quite a bit as to where we are as a nation.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 30, 2021 10:51:35 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 30, 2021 10:10:34 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I want us to have more info on how protected vaccinated people are, and how likely we are to spread it to non-vaccibated. I keep seeing different things, and the pollyanna in me wants to believe the stuff I find, but dh is mr. Worst case scenario and counters anything I find.

My mom is crazy high risk. She gets hospitalized for colds and flu, and has an immune disorder, we have to keep her safe. And my kids can't get vaccinated yet, so we're still doing outdoor masked visits with them. I can't even sit next to her outside yet. I am getting a little doom and gloom that I never will.

The vaccine decreases the chance of being hospitalized for coronavirus by 94% for those over 65. Quite effective
Transplant recipients have a less than 50% response to the vaccine. Not so good.

If you have a "normal" immune system, you appear to be well protected(for how long is unknown at present).
If your immune system is not normal, it appears you remain quite susceptible(what that means is unclear as well).

How long immunity last is an open question. If vaccinated people can spread the disease is an open question(but based on what we are seeing, I suspect not).

In summary, normal people will likely have very little risk. Medically fragile people will have some, and in some cases substantial risk. How we respond to those facts will tell us quite a bit as to where we are as a nation.

Thats good info. Thanks.

Not good news for hanging out with my parents unfortunately.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 30, 2021 10:59:09 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Apr 30, 2021 10:51:35 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

The vaccine decreases the chance of being hospitalized for coronavirus by 94% for those over 65. Quite effective
Transplant recipients have a less than 50% response to the vaccine. Not so good.

If you have a "normal" immune system, you appear to be well protected(for how long is unknown at present).
If your immune system is not normal, it appears you remain quite susceptible(what that means is unclear as well).

How long immunity last is an open question. If vaccinated people can spread the disease is an open question(but based on what we are seeing, I suspect not).

In summary, normal people will likely have very little risk. Medically fragile people will have some, and in some cases substantial risk. How we respond to those facts will tell us quite a bit as to where we are as a nation.

Thats good info. Thanks.

Not good news for hanging out with my parents unfortunately.

This is my opinion, not enough data to confirm.

I suspect fully vaccinated people will have a low likelihood of spreading the disease. I think we will have a more durable immunity than what I’d being bandied about. I think the vaccines will be approved for 12 and up soon, and for 6 and up by the end of the year.

I also think there will be places with high levels of vaccine uptake. Should you live in one of those, avoid high risk scenarios, and not be someplace that would attract a lot of unvaccinated individuals, your risk may be low enough that infection is unlikely. But there will clearly be places that are higher risk

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 30, 2021 8:50:33 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

ca.travelpulse.com/news/impacting-travel/trudeau-says-border-opening-and-vaccine-passports-being-discussed-by-ottawa.html

Canadian tourism and travel industry officials have said they need a general plan from Ottawa so they can plan for their summer season.



On the issue of vaccine passports, Trudeau made it sound like they're almost a foregone conclusion.

As of now, the border between the US and Canada is closed

Yep.  I know TD is itching to check on his mom, and probably see his dad before he dies.  Once Canada decides this, I suspect we will be in Canada most of this summer.

[TheOtherMe]

Same place I will be for about a month.  I'm now quite spoiled and NEED my baby time.  Toronto here I come as soon as the border opens.

[NastyWoman]

Apr 29, 2021 22:37:51 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 29, 2021 21:51:39 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Actually that captures my feelings about this situation exactly, except not quite the way Later intends it to. My feeling about this is you don't follow the rules (in this case get vaccinate, you don't get to play - go into isolation for the rest of your life if that is preferred over the vaccine. But just like you are not allowed to drive under the influence because you pose a danger to others, you should not be allowed to go out if you refuse to get vaccinated.   

And that does not strike you as a totally evil thing to do? You are seriously suggesting effectively imprisoning perfectly healthy people because they might contract an illness and then they might come in contact with an immunicompromised person? exactly when did the unhealthiest among us become the priority?i

No why should it? You (generic you) make a choice so you get to deal with the consequences of that choice. You do not get to put that burden on others!

[Deleted]

I just got an email about a rescheduled group tour to upstate NY and across the border to Canada.  I'm ambivalent about being in a group setting yet, and sort of unwilling to commit to this trip AGAIN in case the border doesn't open.  Given that it originates in Texas, I highly doubt that vaccines or masks would be part of the experience.

[TheOtherMe]

I think Canada may have their own rules about vaccines by the time the border opens.

[teen persuasion]

Apr 30, 2021 17:03:27 GMT -5 @donethat said:

I just got an email about a rescheduled group tour to upstate NY and across the border to Canada.  I'm ambivalent about being in a group setting yet, and sort of unwilling to commit to this trip AGAIN in case the border doesn't open.  Given that it originates in Texas, I highly doubt that vaccines or masks would be part of the experience.

Ooh, where to?  The Falls?  Maid of the Mist has restarted boat tours, new all-electric boats now.  That's American side, even if you can't cross any of the bridges right now.

[Deleted]

May 1, 2021 20:21:54 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Apr 30, 2021 17:03:27 GMT -5 @donethat said:

I just got an email about a rescheduled group tour to upstate NY and across the border to Canada.  I'm ambivalent about being in a group setting yet, and sort of unwilling to commit to this trip AGAIN in case the border doesn't open.  Given that it originates in Texas, I highly doubt that vaccines or masks would be part of the experience.

Ooh, where to?  The Falls?  Maid of the Mist has restarted boat tours, new all-electric boats now.  That's American side, even if you can't cross any of the bridges right now.

The original schedule included the other side of the falls, the Canadian side.  Other than that and some other Canadian excursions, the trip was pretty much a snooze for this side .  We're also looking at a Great Lakes cruise that crosses into Canada, but also dependent on a border opening.  I've warned DH that booking either of these trips is 100% dependent on fully refundable cost if we can't go to Canada because there's not much so see on this side.      

DH is still talking about Germany next year which is cool too.  Except for the 8 hour flight with screaming children.  

[teen persuasion]

Ok, the Canadian side has a somewhat better view of the Falls, because you are looking back at the American side! But the Park on the U.S. side is still lovely, and the view of the Falls is just from a different vantage point. If you want to get up close, as I mentioned there's the Maid of the Mist boat ride that takes you into the spray, and I believe there are jet boat tours. You can hike the gorge, we've done that several times, and visit the Power Vista center (the hydro power overlook).  Old Fort Niagara is a bit further north of NF.

But if you are coming all the way from Texas to NF, you might want to explore the rest of WNY on your drive thru.

Buffalo has glorious architecture: Art Deco City Hall, HH Richardson Complex (newly restored), multiple Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, Albright Knox Art Gallery, Kleinhans Philharmonic, Shea's theater... Delaware park is Olmsted designed, and hosts Shakespeare performances every summer over 6 weeks (we go every year). Then there's the Finger lakes, the Erie canal (say, a boat tour thru Lockport's locks alongside the original Flight of Five locks), wine trails all over (along both lakeshores - Erie and Ontario, as well as in the Finger Lakes region). Letchworth park is amazing - the gorge is called the Grand Canyon of the east.

[Lizard Queen]

May 2, 2021 7:16:00 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Ok, the Canadian side has a somewhat better view of the Falls, because you are looking back at the American side! But the Park on the U.S. side is still lovely, and the view of the Falls is just from a different vantage point. If you want to get up close, as I mentioned there's the Maid of the Mist boat ride that takes you into the spray, and I believe there are jet boat tours. You can hike the gorge, we've done that several times, and visit the Power Vista center (the hydro power overlook).  Old Fort Niagara is a bit further north of NF.

But if you are coming all the way from Texas to NF, you might want to explore the rest of WNY on your drive thru.

Buffalo has glorious architecture: Art Deco City Hall, HH Richardson Complex (newly restored), multiple Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, Albright Knox Art Gallery, Kleinhans Philharmonic, Shea's theater... Delaware park is Olmsted designed, and hosts Shakespeare performances every summer over 6 weeks (we go every year). Then there's the Finger lakes, the Erie canal (say, a boat tour thru Lockport's locks alongside the original Flight of Five locks), wine trails all over (along both lakeshores - Erie and Ontario, as well as in the Finger Lakes region). Letchworth park is amazing - the gorge is called the Grand Canyon of the east.

Hi teen. I'm eying Legoland new York for a trip when it opens. Do you happen to know a specific date? I can't plan a trip so far away without being confident it will be open.

[Deleted]

May 2, 2021 7:16:00 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Buffalo has glorious architecture: Art Deco City Hall, HH Richardson Complex (newly restored), multiple Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, Albright Knox Art Gallery, Kleinhans Philharmonic, Shea's theater... Delaware park is Olmsted designed, and hosts Shakespeare performances every summer over 6 weeks (we go every year). Then there's the Finger lakes, the Erie canal (say, a boat tour thru Lockport's locks alongside the original Flight of Five locks), wine trails all over (along both lakeshores - Erie and Ontario, as well as in the Finger Lakes region). Letchworth park is amazing - the gorge is called the Grand Canyon of the east.

BF wants to go to Buffalo to see the maritime exhibits- the Little Rock, the submarine, etc.  My parents lived in Orchard Park, a suburb, for a few years after I moved out so I know the area and would love to go back.  He wants to go over Labor Day weekend.  I booked a Hilton with points and he's looking for a sale on airfares on Southwest.  I told him it isn't gonna happen.  If we don't go we don't go, but it would be nice if we do.  That would be my first flight since March of last year and it would be nice to take it with him.

[teen persuasion]

May 2, 2021 8:38:29 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

May 2, 2021 7:16:00 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Ok, the Canadian side has a somewhat better view of the Falls, because you are looking back at the American side! But the Park on the U.S. side is still lovely, and the view of the Falls is just from a different vantage point. If you want to get up close, as I mentioned there's the Maid of the Mist boat ride that takes you into the spray, and I believe there are jet boat tours. You can hike the gorge, we've done that several times, and visit the Power Vista center (the hydro power overlook).  Old Fort Niagara is a bit further north of NF.

But if you are coming all the way from Texas to NF, you might want to explore the rest of WNY on your drive thru.

Buffalo has glorious architecture: Art Deco City Hall, HH Richardson Complex (newly restored), multiple Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, Albright Knox Art Gallery, Kleinhans Philharmonic, Shea's theater... Delaware park is Olmsted designed, and hosts Shakespeare performances every summer over 6 weeks (we go every year). Then there's the Finger lakes, the Erie canal (say, a boat tour thru Lockport's locks alongside the original Flight of Five locks), wine trails all over (along both lakeshores - Erie and Ontario, as well as in the Finger Lakes region). Letchworth park is amazing - the gorge is called the Grand Canyon of the east.

Hi teen. I'm eying Legoland new York for a trip when it opens. Do you happen to know a specific date? I can't plan a trip so far away without being confident it will be open.

Sorry, I'm not much help, here.  That's nowhere nearby, so not on my radar.  I had to look it up, to see it's Hudson valley.  Their site says Summer 2021! But who knows?

[Spellbound454]

We have just had an all night rave in Liverpool (no masks) as part of an experiment.

They tested the attendees before they let them in.... and they will be tested twice afterwards.

They are going to see what effect it has on the spread of the virus.... currently background low.
www.reuters.com/world/uk/thousands-hit-liverpool-rave-trial-reopening-lockdown-2021-04-30/

and whether we can start opening up a bit more.

[Deleted]

May 2, 2021 7:16:00 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Ok, the Canadian side has a somewhat better view of the Falls, because you are looking back at the American side! But the Park on the U.S. side is still lovely, and the view of the Falls is just from a different vantage point. If you want to get up close, as I mentioned there's the Maid of the Mist boat ride that takes you into the spray, and I believe there are jet boat tours. You can hike the gorge, we've done that several times, and visit the Power Vista center (the hydro power overlook).  Old Fort Niagara is a bit further north of NF.

But if you are coming all the way from Texas to NF, you might want to explore the rest of WNY on your drive thru.

Buffalo has glorious architecture: Art Deco City Hall, HH Richardson Complex (newly restored), multiple Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, Albright Knox Art Gallery, Kleinhans Philharmonic, Shea's theater... Delaware park is Olmsted designed, and hosts Shakespeare performances every summer over 6 weeks (we go every year). Then there's the Finger lakes, the Erie canal (say, a boat tour thru Lockport's locks alongside the original Flight of Five locks), wine trails all over (along both lakeshores - Erie and Ontario, as well as in the Finger Lakes region). Letchworth park is amazing - the gorge is called the Grand Canyon of the east.

Thanks for all the great info.  The tour as originally scheduled included a cruise through the Erie Canal, architectural tour of Buffalo, Maid of the Mist ride, Old Fort Niagara, a day with tours in Toronto, ice wine tasting in Niagara-on-the-Lake, and a ride in the Whirlpool Aero Car.  They say they've added some more stuff now so we have to make a decision very soon.

[teen persuasion]

May 2, 2021 8:42:49 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

May 2, 2021 7:16:00 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Buffalo has glorious architecture: Art Deco City Hall, HH Richardson Complex (newly restored), multiple Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, Albright Knox Art Gallery, Kleinhans Philharmonic, Shea's theater... Delaware park is Olmsted designed, and hosts Shakespeare performances every summer over 6 weeks (we go every year). Then there's the Finger lakes, the Erie canal (say, a boat tour thru Lockport's locks alongside the original Flight of Five locks), wine trails all over (along both lakeshores - Erie and Ontario, as well as in the Finger Lakes region). Letchworth park is amazing - the gorge is called the Grand Canyon of the east.

BF wants to go to Buffalo to see the maritime exhibits- the Little Rock, the submarine, etc.  My parents lived in Orchard Park, a suburb, for a few years after I moved out so I know the area and would love to go back.  He wants to go over Labor Day weekend.  I booked a Hilton with points and he's looking for a sale on airfares on Southwest.  I told him it isn't gonna happen.  If we don't go we don't go, but it would be nice if we do.  That would be my first flight since March of last year and it would be nice to take it with him.

I grew up next door to OP!  My mom's family had a house in the village, so we often went there to visit great aunt/uncles and help with garden upkeep, etc., years ago.  Went to Chestnut Ridge park frequently, too - toboggan hill in winter, picnics in summer, hikes to the Eternal flame.  East Aurora has a beautiful village, too, especially the Roycroft Campus, and is also near OP.

The Naval park was in the news a few months ago - after the winter it was discovered the Sullivans was taking on water and listing badly.  Covid meant maintenance was deferred last year, so lots of little leaks.  The news spurred a donation drive to raise funds to make repairs.  Good news, that it should get the care it needs, but that one may be off limits for tours for awhile.  Don't know how long repairs may take.

It looks like the Naval Park just reopened yesterday, per their website.

Buffalo is really focusing on developing the waterfront, Canalside,  grain elevators, etc, as a destination.  They are trying to figure out what to do with the Skyway.  After it was finally decided that it had to go, tear it down, what do we do with the space then, suddenly there was a movement to leave half of it, as a pedestrian skywalk, IDK.   

[teen persuasion]

May 2, 2021 10:40:00 GMT -5 @donethat said:

May 2, 2021 7:16:00 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Ok, the Canadian side has a somewhat better view of the Falls, because you are looking back at the American side! But the Park on the U.S. side is still lovely, and the view of the Falls is just from a different vantage point. If you want to get up close, as I mentioned there's the Maid of the Mist boat ride that takes you into the spray, and I believe there are jet boat tours. You can hike the gorge, we've done that several times, and visit the Power Vista center (the hydro power overlook).  Old Fort Niagara is a bit further north of NF.

But if you are coming all the way from Texas to NF, you might want to explore the rest of WNY on your drive thru.

Buffalo has glorious architecture: Art Deco City Hall, HH Richardson Complex (newly restored), multiple Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, Albright Knox Art Gallery, Kleinhans Philharmonic, Shea's theater... Delaware park is Olmsted designed, and hosts Shakespeare performances every summer over 6 weeks (we go every year). Then there's the Finger lakes, the Erie canal (say, a boat tour thru Lockport's locks alongside the original Flight of Five locks), wine trails all over (along both lakeshores - Erie and Ontario, as well as in the Finger Lakes region). Letchworth park is amazing - the gorge is called the Grand Canyon of the east.

Thanks for all the great info.  The tour as originally scheduled included a cruise through the Erie Canal, architectural tour of Buffalo, Maid of the Mist ride, Old Fort Niagara, a day with tours in Toronto, ice wine tasting in Niagara-on-the-Lake, and a ride in the Whirlpool Aero Car.  They say they've added some more stuff now so we have to make a decision very soon.

Ok, so a lot of my suggestions on your list.  Only ones in Canada are Whirlpool Aero Car, Toronto, and Niagara-on-the-Lake. Plenty of other wineries along the way south of Buffalo, and west of NF along the Canal, or along the Wine Trail. Toronto is a good 3 hour drive from any of the bridges around the end of Lake Ontario, and then back, so it's a long detour. They could just as easily substitute a trip to Rochester (1 hour) or Syracuse (3 hours), or the Finger lakes between.

[NastyWoman]

May 1, 2021 21:43:18 GMT -5 @donethat said:

May 1, 2021 20:21:54 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Ooh, where to?  The Falls?  Maid of the Mist has restarted boat tours, new all-electric boats now.  That's American side, even if you can't cross any of the bridges right now.

The original schedule included the other side of the falls, the Canadian side.  Other than that and some other Canadian excursions, the trip was pretty much a snooze for this side .  We're also looking at a Great Lakes cruise that crosses into Canada, but also dependent on a border opening.  I've warned DH that booking either of these trips is 100% dependent on fully refundable cost if we can't go to Canada because there's not much so see on this side.      

DH is still talking about Germany next year which is cool too.  Except for the 8 hour flight with screaming children.  

Make that 11 hours for me and, unless the world goes all "India" on us, I will be making that trip come December. I did book a trip where I could change the dates if needed but I really need to see my family again and it will be close to 2 years without by YE.