Back to "Normal" or "New Normal"

[nittanycheme]

I would like to travel again.  I am very happy with the lower number of social engagements.  I would like some more, but my extremely extroverted DH wanted social engagements of some sort pretty much every weekend night, and occasionally during the week.  I think he's actually gotten to like sometimes without plans, so maybe that will be less stress between us.  I'm ambivalent about some of my family get togethers.  There are some political differences in the family, so they've been painful for a few years.  Although I think all my aunts and uncles got their shots along with my parents and grandma, I don't know about my cousins and their spouses.

But I am NOT liking that they are trying to pull us into the office full time.  My overall company still has a mostly WFH policy, but my boss's boss is trying to say that our entire department is essential now and we need to go in unless our boss okays staying home.  My part of the departments spends a lot of our time writing documents and in meetings, and certainly not all of us need to be on site everyday.  We do some floor support when there are issues, but its not like all of us go out.  And its relatively rare - maybe once every few months.  So, we are discussing proposing some sort of schedule to our boss where we do have people on site everyday from our part of the department.  Another part of our department works with the equipment - they are probably more essential since our equipment is all either very old, or very new.  My commute sucks - I hate the highway I need to drive on, there are accidents all the time and I drive into the sun both ways.  And now that I have a pretty good home gym setup, I have time to exercise a lot more when I'm not driving around 2 hours a day.  There are areas of my company where they told them they are never going to come back to the office full time.  I was already in discussions with my boss about a hybrid schedule.  Right now its been easy since we've been having car trouble.  And I have a lot of documents to write.

[ajmom]

Apr 15, 2021 10:21:57 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I will be wearing a mask for a long time in to the future and I am not close to being comfortable flying.

I thought flying was determined to be relatively safe with covid? That said, I think I will fly — but with a mask on as it’s a pain to catch something right before or after vacation.

[TheOtherMe]

I do not want to wear a mask for a long flight.  To me, being in a cramped space with people acting crazy because of a mask is not worth flying.  I would be much more comfortable flying if there were "vaccine passports".  That's the only way I am flying in the forseeable future.  I live in an area of covidiots.  I'm not flying with them.  I also don't want to be in an airport with them, especially when the herd thinks they can all board at the same time.

There is only one place I want to fly and the border is closed.  

Each person has their own comfort level.  Flying and concerts are NO's for me.

[thyme4change]

If I haven't said this before - I would be happy if food service workers stayed masked during work forever. People breathe all of them, they breathe all over people, and food, and whatever. We don't provide any time off or sick pay, so they come to work no matter their health. I am totally cool if we add one more layer of safety to both them and patrons.

[haapai]

Apr 28, 2021 16:17:40 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If I haven't said this before - I would be happy if food service workers stayed masked during work forever. People breathe all of them, they breathe all over people, and food, and whatever. We don't provide any time off or sick pay, so they come to work no matter their health. I am totally cool if we add one more layer of safety to both them and patrons.

You have no idea how disturbing this comment is to this food service worker.  I've been working 40 hours a week in public and behind a mask for the last year.  I've adapted (somewhat) to communicating without facial expression but there is only so much that can be done via voice and gestures.  I do not want to be the only one masked!  That just gives everyone else the green light to treat me like something less than human. 

I suggest that you could get used to eating out of vending machines for the rest of your life. 

[thyme4change]

Apr 28, 2021 19:22:00 GMT -5 haapai said:

Apr 28, 2021 16:17:40 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If I haven't said this before - I would be happy if food service workers stayed masked during work forever. People breathe all of them, they breathe all over people, and food, and whatever. We don't provide any time off or sick pay, so they come to work no matter their health. I am totally cool if we add one more layer of safety to both them and patrons.

You have no idea how disturbing this comment is to this food service worker.  I've been working 40 hours a week in public and behind a mask for the last year.  I've adapted (somewhat) to communicating without facial expression but there is only so much that can be done via voice and gestures.  I do not want to be the only one masked!  That just gives everyone else the green light to treat me like something less than human. 

I suggest that you could get used to eating out of vending machines for the rest of your life. 

Maybe just fast food workers. I swear I caught so many illnesses through fast food joints that had unwell people touching my food.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 28, 2021 19:22:00 GMT -5 haapai said:

Apr 28, 2021 16:17:40 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If I haven't said this before - I would be happy if food service workers stayed masked during work forever. People breathe all of them, they breathe all over people, and food, and whatever. We don't provide any time off or sick pay, so they come to work no matter their health. I am totally cool if we add one more layer of safety to both them and patrons.

You have no idea how disturbing this comment is to this food service worker.  I've been working 40 hours a week in public and behind a mask for the last year.  I've adapted (somewhat) to communicating without facial expression but there is only so much that can be done via voice and gestures.  I do not want to be the only one masked!  That just gives everyone else the green light to treat me like something less than human. 

I suggest that you could get used to eating out of vending machines for the rest of your life. 

Doctors and nurses wear masks. There is nothing sub human about it.

[haapai]

On us, it would be a mark of our servile status and it would imply our uncleanliness. 

How about giving us sick days instead?  That would actually cut down on foodborne illness. 

[laterbloomer]

Apr 28, 2021 13:24:41 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do not want to wear a mask for a long flight.  To me, being in a cramped space with people acting crazy because of a mask is not worth flying.  I would be much more comfortable flying if there were "vaccine passports".  That's the only way I am flying in the forseeable future.  I live in an area of covidiots.  I'm not flying with them.  I also don't want to be in an airport with them, especially when the herd thinks they can all board at the same time.

There is only one place I want to fly and the border is closed.  

Each person has their own comfort level.  Flying and concerts are NO's for me.

I'm vaccinated, I don't much care what other people do. I still don't get the whole fuss about having herd immunity. Let Darwin do his work.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 29, 2021 8:30:25 GMT -5 haapai said:

On us, it would be a mark of our servile status and it would imply our uncleanliness. 

How about giving us sick days instead?  That would actually cut down on foodborne illness. 

I'm all for both. I believe you should get sick days. But seriously, masks for people preparing food just makes sense. The people that are going to look down on you for it are not going to think any better or you without a mask, they will just find another excuse to be assholes.

Blowing out candles on a community cake is now a thing of the past in my house. I am going to keep giving the celebrant their own cup cake with a candle. In hindsight that really was a disgusting tradition.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Apr 29, 2021 8:33:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 28, 2021 13:24:41 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do not want to wear a mask for a long flight.  To me, being in a cramped space with people acting crazy because of a mask is not worth flying.  I would be much more comfortable flying if there were "vaccine passports".  That's the only way I am flying in the forseeable future.  I live in an area of covidiots.  I'm not flying with them.  I also don't want to be in an airport with them, especially when the herd thinks they can all board at the same time.

There is only one place I want to fly and the border is closed.  

Each person has their own comfort level.  Flying and concerts are NO's for me.

I'm vaccinated, I don't much care what other people do. I still don't get the whole fuss about having herd immunity. Let Darwin do his work.

Because some people can't be vaccinated.  I don't think we should just say let the kids and immune compromised die because they can't be vaccinated.

[thyme4change]

Apr 29, 2021 8:30:25 GMT -5 haapai said:

On us, it would be a mark of our servile status and it would imply our uncleanliness. 

How about giving us sick days instead?  That would actually cut down on foodborne illness. 

100% everyone should have sick time available to them.

[thyme4change]

Apr 29, 2021 9:06:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Apr 29, 2021 8:33:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I'm vaccinated, I don't much care what other people do. I still don't get the whole fuss about having herd immunity. Let Darwin do his work.

Because some people can't be vaccinated.  I don't think we should just say let the kids and immune compromised die because they can't be vaccinated.

Frankly- the jerk faced a-holes have worn me down. I can't fight them on every single stupid thing. I can't spend any more effort worrying about their inability to care about others and their refusal to understand science. I am totally out of energy. They did it. They depleted my ability to give a shit about them. I am so sorry they will continue to hurt the weak and vulnerable- on this issue and every other issue. But I don't know what to do.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 29, 2021 9:24:08 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Apr 29, 2021 9:06:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Because some people can't be vaccinated.  I don't think we should just say let the kids and immune compromised die because they can't be vaccinated.

Frankly- the jerk faced a-holes have worn me down. I can't fight them on every single stupid thing. I can't spend any more effort worrying about their inability to care about others and their refusal to understand science. I am totally out of energy. They did it. They depleted my ability to give a shit about them. I am so sorry they will continue to hurt the weak and vulnerable- on this issue and every other issue. But I don't know what to do.

And I get sick of the holier than thou crowd refusing to acknowledge that people have a right to decide whether they get vaccinated or not and they are not obligated to inject something into their body that they aren't comfortable with to ensure the health of someone else. Vaccines are a risk, maybe a small one but they are a risk. I don't get why people think it's so moral to demand that of people.

[azucena]

Apr 29, 2021 8:33:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 28, 2021 13:24:41 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do not want to wear a mask for a long flight.  To me, being in a cramped space with people acting crazy because of a mask is not worth flying.  I would be much more comfortable flying if there were "vaccine passports".  That's the only way I am flying in the forseeable future.  I live in an area of covidiots.  I'm not flying with them.  I also don't want to be in an airport with them, especially when the herd thinks they can all board at the same time.

There is only one place I want to fly and the border is closed.  

Each person has their own comfort level.  Flying and concerts are NO's for me.

I'm vaccinated, I don't much care what other people do. I still don't get the whole fuss about having herd immunity. Let Darwin do his work.

I can't even think about adopting this attitude until my kids can be vaccinated.  After that though, game on!

[minnesotapaintlady]

Apr 29, 2021 10:30:25 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 29, 2021 9:24:08 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Frankly- the jerk faced a-holes have worn me down. I can't fight them on every single stupid thing. I can't spend any more effort worrying about their inability to care about others and their refusal to understand science. I am totally out of energy. They did it. They depleted my ability to give a shit about them. I am so sorry they will continue to hurt the weak and vulnerable- on this issue and every other issue. But I don't know what to do.

And I get sick of the holier than thou crowd refusing to acknowledge that people have a right to decide whether they get vaccinated or not and they are not obligated to inject something into their body that they aren't comfortable with to ensure the health of someone else. Vaccines are a risk, maybe a small one but they are a risk. I don't get why people think it's so moral to demand that of people.

I really doubt the sincerity of the "worried about what's in it" excuse from a lot of people...at least the ones I know that are not planning to get it.  For them it's more of a big "F you" statement to the wussy Dems.  I find it very amusing hearing these statements walking through the smoking break area of the composites manufacturing company where it's been proven all that shit they work with causes cancer, but hey, it pays way more than the electronics places!

[thyme4change]

Apr 29, 2021 10:31:22 GMT -5 azucena said:

Apr 29, 2021 8:33:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I'm vaccinated, I don't much care what other people do. I still don't get the whole fuss about having herd immunity. Let Darwin do his work.

I can't even think about adopting this attitude until my kids can be vaccinated.  After that though, game on!

I'm hoping they get to at least 12 and up in time to get kids vaccinated for school in the fall. Even better if they can get that 6 and up approval.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 29, 2021 10:30:25 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 29, 2021 9:24:08 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Frankly- the jerk faced a-holes have worn me down. I can't fight them on every single stupid thing. I can't spend any more effort worrying about their inability to care about others and their refusal to understand science. I am totally out of energy. They did it. They depleted my ability to give a shit about them. I am so sorry they will continue to hurt the weak and vulnerable- on this issue and every other issue. But I don't know what to do.

And I get sick of the holier than thou crowd refusing to acknowledge that people have a right to decide whether they get vaccinated or not and they are not obligated to inject something into their body that they aren't comfortable with to ensure the health of someone else. Vaccines are a risk, maybe a small one but they are a risk. I don't get why people think it's so moral to demand that of people.

People can decide what they want to do. Society can decide if there are requirements to be able to do things. "No shirt, no shoes, no service" seems to be in place everywhere. Typhoid Mary did not get sick, but was barred from working in the food service industry because of her infecting others. Are you ok with eating food prepared by her. Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, Smallpox are no longer scourges due to vaccines. We knew less about what was in those vaccines than what is in the coronavirus vaccines. Your right to do what you want ends when it affects me. You have no right to infect others, it is no different than assault. If you do not want to be vaccinated(as opposed to can't), you, and not the medically fragile should be the ones who has limits on their activities placed.

You have the right to refuse(as of now). It does not mean that society has to accept that with no restrictions on you. Otherwise, you are no better than people who insist on doing whatever they wish without consequences

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

There are several countries that require various vaccines already to travel there.  That is their right.   I don't see countries refusing to let you in unless you had the COVID vaccine being any different.

Same with businesses we've ruled they can deny gay/trans people jobs, deny me birth control coverage and a host of other things because that is their right. If they decide if you are unvaccinated you can't enter/still have to wear a mask then that's going to be their right too.

Right to do something doesn't automatically mean the right to do it without consequence.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 29, 2021 8:33:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 28, 2021 13:24:41 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do not want to wear a mask for a long flight.  To me, being in a cramped space with people acting crazy because of a mask is not worth flying.  I would be much more comfortable flying if there were "vaccine passports".  That's the only way I am flying in the forseeable future.  I live in an area of covidiots.  I'm not flying with them.  I also don't want to be in an airport with them, especially when the herd thinks they can all board at the same time.

There is only one place I want to fly and the border is closed.  

Each person has their own comfort level.  Flying and concerts are NO's for me.

I'm vaccinated, I don't much care what other people do. I still don't get the whole fuss about having herd immunity. Let Darwin do his work.

Because Darwin would take out a lot of those who are non Darwin’s.  I have a friend whose sister has an autoimmune disease.  She has been immunized and has absolutely NO immunity.  My friend flew to her to help her out following surgery.  My friend quarantined 2 weeks and tested despite being vaccinated, so she can be a caregiver to her sister.

Herd immunity isn’t just about protecting the individual, but protecting those who cannot protect themselves.....through no fault of their own, but genetics.

[haapai]

Herd immunity is a bit of a pipe dream now that we know more about this virus.  That's our new normal. 

It's going to take a while for that to sink in or be accepted, but that's going to be our new normal.  We can get vaccinated in order to protect ourselves and those around us, and to keep our health care system from collapsing, but we are not going to achieve herd immunity with the vaccines that we have and the hesitancy that we have and the variants that are emerging. 

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 29, 2021 13:10:20 GMT -5 haapai said:

Herd immunity is a bit of a pipe dream now that we know more about this virus.  That's our new normal. 

It's going to take a while for that to sink in or be accepted, but that's going to be our new normal.  We can get vaccinated in order to protect ourselves and those around us, and to keep our health care system from collapsing, but we are not going to achieve herd immunity with the vaccines that we have and the hesitancy that we have and the variants that are emerging. 

Actually, with the demonstrated effectiveness of the vaccines, I believe that herd immunity, and eventual eradication of the virus could be possible(given enough time). The limitation is our behavior, so I agree it is not going to happen, and we will have to live with it. But scientifically, I think we could get there if we had 95% compliance(worldwide).

[haapai]

Isn't that almost the same as saying that herd immunity is a pipe dream?  Or at least a long way off?

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 29, 2021 13:27:11 GMT -5 haapai said:

Isn't that almost the same as saying that herd immunity is a pipe dream?  Or at least a long way off?

I don't think so. I acknowledge we will not get there. That is different than saying it is not possible. In my opinion, a pipe dream is something that is not possible. Herd immunity is something I believe can be accomplished from a scientific standpoint. The only thing standing in the way is us. Change our behavior, change the outcome.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 29, 2021 13:10:20 GMT -5 haapai said:

Herd immunity is a bit of a pipe dream now that we know more about this virus.  That's our new normal. 

It's going to take a while for that to sink in or be accepted, but that's going to be our new normal.  We can get vaccinated in order to protect ourselves and those around us, and to keep our health care system from collapsing, but we are not going to achieve herd immunity with the vaccines that we have and the hesitancy that we have and the variants that are emerging. 

Herd immunity doesn't mean that NOBODY gets it ever ever.  The only thing we have ever fully eradicated from the population is small pox.

It means that the new vectors available are so limited in number that it doesn't burn like a uncontrolled forest fire through the population.  You will always have those who are immune compromised at risk but the majority of us are sick for a bit then move on with our lives.   Like the flu.

We will eventually evolve in that direction be it the hard old fashioned way or through vaccination.  We have been doing that against disease since animals first appeared on the planet.   

Elderly people didn't die in as many numbers as young people in 1918 due to the fact decades prior a similar enough flu strain swept through the population.  That provided them with enough immunity to give them better odds of survival compared to younger generations whose immune systems never saw it.   Same will eventually happen with COVID.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 29, 2021 12:59:36 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 29, 2021 8:33:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I'm vaccinated, I don't much care what other people do. I still don't get the whole fuss about having herd immunity. Let Darwin do his work.

Because Darwin would take out a lot of those who are non Darwin’s.  I have a friend whose sister has an autoimmune disease.  She has been immunized and has absolutely NO immunity.  My friend flew to her to help her out following surgery.  My friend quarantined 2 weeks and tested despite being vaccinated, so she can be a caregiver to her sister.

Herd immunity isn’t just about protecting the individual, but protecting those who cannot protect themselves.....through no fault of their own, but genetics.

But it's not the rest of the world's duty to take risks themselves to protect her. And it is not the moral high ground to insist they do.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 29, 2021 11:03:07 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Apr 29, 2021 10:30:25 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

And I get sick of the holier than thou crowd refusing to acknowledge that people have a right to decide whether they get vaccinated or not and they are not obligated to inject something into their body that they aren't comfortable with to ensure the health of someone else. Vaccines are a risk, maybe a small one but they are a risk. I don't get why people think it's so moral to demand that of people.

I really doubt the sincerity of the "worried about what's in it" excuse from a lot of people...at least the ones I know that are not planning to get it.  For them it's more of a big "F you" statement to the wussy Dems.  I find it very amusing hearing these statements walking through the smoking break area of the composites manufacturing company where it's been proven all that shit they work with causes cancer, but hey, it pays way more than the electronics places!

Ya, you just ignore and ridicule people that do express sincere concern. I know, I've been one of them.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 29, 2021 12:51:46 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 29, 2021 10:30:25 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

And I get sick of the holier than thou crowd refusing to acknowledge that people have a right to decide whether they get vaccinated or not and they are not obligated to inject something into their body that they aren't comfortable with to ensure the health of someone else. Vaccines are a risk, maybe a small one but they are a risk. I don't get why people think it's so moral to demand that of people.

People can decide what they want to do. Society can decide if there are requirements to be able to do things. "No shirt, no shoes, no service" seems to be in place everywhere. Typhoid Mary did not get sick, but was barred from working in the food service industry because of her infecting others. Are you ok with eating food prepared by her. Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, Smallpox are no longer scourges due to vaccines. We knew less about what was in those vaccines than what is in the coronavirus vaccines. Your right to do what you want ends when it affects me. You have no right to infect others, it is no different than assault. If you do not want to be vaccinated(as opposed to can't), you, and not the medically fragile should be the ones who has limits on their activities placed.

You have the right to refuse(as of now). It does not mean that society has to accept that with no restrictions on you. Otherwise, you are no better than people who insist on doing whatever they wish without consequences

Did you read the post from the food worker that considered it belittling to have to wear a mask?

[TheOtherMe]

I believe it IS my responsibility to try to protect others.  I know several people who are immune compromised.  I will do everything I can to protect them.

I believe people who only think of themselves are selfish.  I prefer looking at the world.  We are all part of world.  

[Lizard Queen]

Apr 29, 2021 17:00:55 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 29, 2021 12:59:36 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Because Darwin would take out a lot of those who are non Darwin’s.  I have a friend whose sister has an autoimmune disease.  She has been immunized and has absolutely NO immunity.  My friend flew to her to help her out following surgery.  My friend quarantined 2 weeks and tested despite being vaccinated, so she can be a caregiver to her sister.

Herd immunity isn’t just about protecting the individual, but protecting those who cannot protect themselves.....through no fault of their own, but genetics.

But it's not the rest of the world's duty to take risks themselves to protect her. And it is not the moral high ground to insist they do.

The risk from the vaccines < the risk from getting Covid.