justme
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Post by justme on Mar 18, 2021 21:17:00 GMT -5
I don't think it matters either way.
Harry isn't daft. He knows talking to someone - friend or not - who is an anchor of a national news show that has spent a TON of time talking about H&M in the last two weeks because her show is on the channel that bought his interview means that it's going to be on her show unless he specifically specified otherwise. He didn't.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 28, 2021 22:52:12 GMT -5
Read this article today. Found it interesting. Want to understand how discriminatory gaslighting works? Look to Meghan and HarryIn the wake of Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, and Prince Harry’s “bombshell” Oprah Winfrey interview earlier this month, there were reports last week that Buckingham Palace is conducting a much-needed diversity review and is even considering hiring a “diversity czar,” a diversity consultant or a chief diversity officer for the palace. As a historian of race and a diversity professional, I am glad to see that the royal family is finally taking the allegations by Meghan and Harry of racism and exclusionary treatment seriously. But it does come after the palace's initial brief and tepid response March 9 that said, “While some recollections may vary, they are taken very seriously,” and Prince William's March 11 declaration that the royals are “very much not a racist family.” (Given the diverse British citizenry and the global scope of the Commonwealth, one would hope not.) At first glance, the palace's statement may have seemed innocent enough; noting the obvious reality that people recall events differently is hardly shocking. Yet in the context of Meghan and Harry's allegations of race-based exclusion, negligence and mistreatment, this statement has two rather devastating implications. First, positing that “recollections may vary” calls into question the veracity — and thus legitimacy — of the experiences Harry and Meghan conveyed. It leaves open and even invites the questions of whether Harry and Meghan were exaggerating in their claims, what their real motivations were and even whether they are trying to take down the institution. Ultimately, by suggesting that others remembered the events they recounted differently, it had the effect of undermining their public legitimacy. But more perniciously, that sort of statement also calls into question Meghan's and Harry's own memories and even their capacities to perceive. It invites, if not demands, that they, too, wonder if they misunderstood the comment about the skin tone of their son, remembered things wrong or exaggerated the sense of race-based exclusion, negligence and mistreatment in their own minds. Challenging the truth of their recollections could have the effect of undermining their self-confidence and self-regard. Consolidating one’s power by causing individuals to question their own judgments, perceptions of reality and memories has a name: gaslighting. It is a form of psychological manipulation by which abusers build their authority — and ability to continue abusing — by breaking down their victim's or victims' sense of self and their confidence in their grip on reality. Complete article here: link
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 31, 2021 3:09:36 GMT -5
This really takes the biscuit.
Meghan was welcomed with open arms and given every help by the Royals and the People. She has some gossipy headlines from the tabloids (as well known people do) ...but hey, you don't control the free press. None of it was racist .... and to imply that the people, the Royals or the newspapers are racist in this Country is very offensive...... and a massive lie.
"Breaking down a victims grip on reality" ........ She isn't a victim and this is not reality .... ergo... not gaslighting.
Actually this kind of woolley thinking ... whereby you can't upset a persons own perception, for fear of upsetting their own reality... is not only nonsense, it sets a dangerous precedent.
Where does it end? ie........"I feel I didn't rob that bank and shoot those people because that is my reality and you can't say otherwise"....? Where is the culpability and accountability for those who do wrong.... in a democracy?
and if you are not going to give a balanced representation through the media, (the US has reported only one side)... or ask the difficult questions ............. where does that leave society?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 31, 2021 5:56:17 GMT -5
This is gaslighting. I don't know if its sanctioned, but it is strange he fails to bring up Diana at all. (Actually turns out not curious, he just wrote a book on Elizabeth and her dead sister Margaret. Probably trying to cash on current events for his book.) honey.nine.com.au/royals/princess-diana-biographer-andrew-morton-questions-meghan-markle-mental-health-claims-oprah/7a855ba4-9dd9-46a1-9ca8-1d4be1c1a69eHe did, however, say Meghan's mental health comments were a "very sad admission".
"Especially as Harry is a patron of a mental health organisation, his godmother, Julia Samuel, is a well-known psychotherapist, she's on speed dial," Morton said.(He knows this because he's handled Harry's phone? Or more likely he's pulling it out of his ass to get press.) "But having said that, Margaret did go for psychological counselling and even the Queen herself during her Annus horribilis had someone to help her with breathing and relaxing.
"So in a funny kind of way the royal family have a history of going for help from professional bodies for psychological issues that they faced."
Right. Because Diana got help right away with her depression and the royal family encouraged that help publicly. Not. Comparing being suicidal with getting help with breathing and relaxing exercises? Smells like gaslighting for profit to me.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 31, 2021 5:58:16 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 31, 2021 7:45:12 GMT -5
Every time there is a vast overview of Elizabeth, there is a whole blurb about what an unbelievable shock it was that she became queen. Edward didn't have any kids - wasn't he like 45 when he became king and abdicated? It seemed like he was a playboy - did no one think he might possibly not produce an heir? Even if he didn't abdicate, she might still have become queen.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 31, 2021 12:27:07 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 31, 2021 12:53:46 GMT -5
Who has a different recollection?
I'm sure you words make sense, but I am having trouble with all the incomplete sentences and overuse of elipses. I am not a great reader and often find I can't 'fill in the blanks' when reading.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 31, 2021 13:57:10 GMT -5
Whoever allegedly made those remarks in the first place.... and prince Harry
Lol.. There aren't any blanks that's just the way I write (by putting a pause in)
Wouldn't normally put so may links in either unless on a political site....but hey. I'm presenting a counter argument so it needs to be clear. No worries.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 31, 2021 15:55:19 GMT -5
Whoever allegedly made those remarks in the first place.... and prince Harry Lol.. There aren't any blanks that's just the way I write (by putting a pause in) Wouldn't normally put so may links in either unless on a political site....but hey. I'm presenting a counter argument so it needs to be clear. No worries. How do we know what "whoever" said? And who is "whoever"? How can someone that could be any one of many people have a reliable memory? I'm so lost. You definitely are leaving blanks. You don't tell us who you are quoting or referencing. I'm sure you are trying to be coy and respectful, but I am not following closely enough to guess what you are actually saying.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 31, 2021 16:35:02 GMT -5
So, Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury.....has said that Harry and Meghan were not married 3 days before. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56587992The Harry, Meghan and Archbishop in the yard claim... is untrue. Do you really need to rehash this again? Yes, it wasn't official. No big deal.
The "colour of children" comment heard by Harry before they were married..... has a "difference of recollection" We weren't there. Father of child versus official palace statement. I'm not willing to hang my hat on either one.The Archie isn't a Prince because he has colour ........ is untrue. All of the queens great grandchildren, and some of her grandchildren.... (apart from directly in line to the throne) are untitled. Retread. Why again?
The latest report from an enquiry is that the UK is not institutionally racist www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538I think your own non-white British subjects disagree with that assessment, given what I read and listened to.The claim that she had her keys and passport taken away?..... I thought she had her 2 day baby shower in NYC www.harpersbazaar.com/celebrity/latest/g26413545/meghan-markle-baby-shower-photos/Amazingly they both can be true. Do you think the Royals book all their own trips and cars? They probably have them when they travel and its possible sometimes palace workers have them.
and she travelled extensively when with the Royals.... www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1416360/Meghan-Markle-claims-news-Duchess-Sussex-Oprah-passport-disputed-update-vnThe "my father cut me off"... from Harry, well yes.. no work, no pay...... He has got inheritance from his mother but neglected to say he had a large inheritance from the Queen Mother too. www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/royal-reason-queen-mother-left-20291851Yes his father cut him off, as expected. Any link showing what funds he got from the Queen Mother's death and when?The "no security for Archie"...... well, the Royal security comes from the Metropolitan Police force in London not the Palace ...... and they have got homes to go to. He has to pay for his own security if he is living abroad. Just ask George Clooney. You might want to note George Clooney paid for his own security in the US.There is more holes in this interview than a Swiss cheese. The interview doesn't have holes. Yes Meghan is mistaken on some accounts, which were already discussed more than enough already. IMO really there were only two noteworthy things in the interview which is how bad her mental health was and the allegations of someone saying something about what color the child could be. The latter has not been disproven. not has it been proven and probably never will be. I did not expect Meghan to be correct on all things Royal. If anything, I expected she would be wrong about at least some of them. But I find that all unimportant in relation to the fact that both Diana and Meghan fared badly in the royal family. That even knowing it was bad, there were not obvious needed interventions. And that blame should fall on the Royal family as a whole.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 31, 2021 16:53:15 GMT -5
Did you read your link? I'm including various excerpts but it looks like they only considered education, not workplaces, etc. www.bbc.com/news/uk-56585538The main findings were:
Children from ethnic-minority communities did as well or better than white pupils in compulsory education, with black Caribbean pupils the only group to perform less well
The commission's report concluded that the UK is not yet a "post-racial country" - but its success in removing race-based disparity in education and, to a lesser extent, the economy, "should be regarded as a model for other white-majority countries".
Dr Halima Begum, chief executive of the Runnymede Trust, a race equality think tank, said she felt "deeply, massively let down" by the report, and that the government did not have the confidence of black and minority ethnic communities.
Asked for her view on the commission's suggestion that the UK is not institutionally racist, she said: "Tell that to the black young mother who is four times more likely to die in childbirth than her young white neighbour, tell that to the 60% of NHS doctors and nurses who died from Covid and were black and ethnic minority workers.
She also questioned the suitability of Dr Sewell and head of the Number 10 policy unit Munira Mirza, who had a role in setting the commission up - both of whom have questioned the existence of institutional racism previously.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 31, 2021 17:04:05 GMT -5
From her husband maybe...... Its his area of expertise and his new career.
Diana also had mental health issues... eating disorders, mood swings and a borderline personality disorder. She was born into the aristocracy and had been around the Royals all her life..... So there should have been no surprises there.
There has been plenty of successes ... but I guess Royal life isn't for everyone.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 31, 2021 17:16:32 GMT -5
The inquiry found that there was no institutional racism and they looked at it from all angles and in great detail.
Its may not be what the Runneymede trust want to hear ... but there you go.
Example.... greater percentage of Black mothers dying in childbirth........ is because people have been less likely to seek early medical intervention. Its more to do with family structures and social deprivation than ethnicity. There are no sweeping statements to be made because under each headline there is a body of study to support it.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 31, 2021 17:30:03 GMT -5
The inquiry found that there was no institutional racism and they looked at it from all angles and in great detail. Its may not be what the Runneymede trust want to hear ... but there you go. Example.... greater percentage of Black mothers dying in childbirth........ is because people have been less likely to seek early medical intervention. Its more to do with family structures and social deprivation than ethnicity. There are no sweeping statements to be made because under each headline there is a body of study to support it. I'm guessing you mean something other than these bodies of study listed at the end of the article- What work has already been done on racial inequality in the UK?
The Race Disparity Audit, published by then Prime Minister Theresa May in 2017, showed inequalities between ethnicities in educational attainment, health, employment and treatment by police and the courts
The 2017 Lammy Review found evidence of bias and discrimination against people from ethnic minority backgrounds in the justice system in England and Wales
Also in 2017, the McGregor-Smith Review of race in the workplace found people from black and minority ethnic backgrounds were still disadvantaged at work and faced lower employment rates than their white counterparts
An independent review of the Windrush scandal, published in March, found the Home Office showed "institutional ignorance and thoughtlessness towards the issue of race"
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 31, 2021 17:50:50 GMT -5
There has been problems identified in the past but the latest well researched inquiry says no institutional racism in the UK. It may not be what some people want to hear but I have no reason to doubt what they say.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 31, 2021 18:30:23 GMT -5
Serena Williams nearly died after giving birth. I'm sure she received proper medical care throughout her pregnancy. She was well aware of her past history with pulmonary embolisms and the potential for it post childbirth. When she first experienced symptoms the nurses brushed her off. It's there no matter what we want to tell ourselves.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 1, 2021 17:14:56 GMT -5
There has been problems identified in the past but the latest well researched inquiry says no institutional racism in the UK.It may not be what some people want to hear but I have no reason to doubt what they say.I imagine any person of color in the UK would wholly disagree with this research study. As mentioned, there are disparities seen and insisting that they don’t exist is like sticking your fingers in your ears and saying ‘lalalala I can’t hear you’. BTW....I’d like to see a reference to this well researched inquiry.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 2, 2021 4:04:35 GMT -5
Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today show on Wednesday, the commission’s chairman Dr Tony Sewell claimed there was no evidence of institutional racism in the UK and that the phrase is wrongly used. He said: “What we have seen is that the term institutional racism is sometimes wrongly applied and it’s been a sort of catch-all phrase for microaggressions or acts of racial abuse.” www.bing.com/search?q=sewell+commision+not+institutional+racism+inquiry++uk&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=sewell+commision+not+institutional+racism+inquiry+uk&sc=1-52&sk=&cvid=72E85DD33EA54F5C8491A54B268C3C35The UK "no longer" has a system rigged against people from ethnic minorities, a review set up by No 10 says. The Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities said family structure and social class had a bigger impact than race on how people's lives turned out. It said children from minority ethnic communities did as well or better than white pupils, but overt racism remained, particularly online. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538Of course the lobbyists are up in arms..... We have a bit of a culture of grievance going on at the moment "wokeness" and people of colour may well experience racist incidences in their ordinary lives..... but there is no evidence of structural racism in this Country. BAME have the same rights and freedoms as everyone else and do just as well by living here. Asian people overrepresented in IT, Black people over represented in Sport and TV ... so its swings and roundabouts and not enough to say there is is not enough BAME people in a particular industry. .....ie.....Black Africans people do better in School than Black Afro Carribeans..... or indeed anyone else..... and as a teacher, thats something I have seen. Have to say......Its a bit bemusing that you would be fascinated by what is happening in another Country....... the UK and the US are not the same place.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 2, 2021 7:39:08 GMT -5
funny, when British minorities were interviewed about that report, they had dramatically different things to say than you here. link
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 2, 2021 7:59:57 GMT -5
Yes.... the lobbyists don't like it .....theirs' isn't the only voice here, albeit loud Many of them are jumping on the bandwagon without even reading it.
but its a well researched, independent inquiry which examines things from multiple angles.... and there is no reason to think it isn't true.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 2, 2021 8:12:08 GMT -5
I quoted the woman I did because it was the first quote, so I was being lazy...my bad. there are other quotes from a student, a professor, and a member of Parliament quoted as well, among others. are those three "lobbyists" as well? would you like to address any of the other quotes included in the link, or just sit back and claim that because you don't see racism, there isn't any? I'll refrain from choosing another one, so that you can feel free to choose what you'd like.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 2, 2021 8:40:13 GMT -5
Serena Williams nearly died after giving birth. I'm sure she received proper medical care throughout her pregnancy. She was well aware of her past history with pulmonary embolisms and the potential for it post childbirth. When she first experienced symptoms the nurses brushed her off. It's there no matter what we want to tell ourselves. Are we talking about the UK or the USA? I don't think Spell is saying that the USA is a post-racism society (unless I missed a post). You may need to find an example from the UK.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Apr 2, 2021 8:42:28 GMT -5
Spell was the one explaining away their worse mortality rates with childbirth. I thought that was a generalization not just UK.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 2, 2021 9:18:49 GMT -5
Yes ......... I'm saying that the subject of racism in the UK is very complex......... and something that may appear as a headline has a huge amount of associated factors. (ie Black women and childbirth)
I don't know what the demographics are like in the US ......but we have seen greater mortality rate with Black and ethnic minorities (particularly Asian) in the pandemic....... also greater amount of vaccine refusal.
The general thinking is that it has more to do with socioeconomic factors than physiology....... because many members of BAME live in multigenerational housing, where younger members bring the vaccine home ..... and they are more likely to work in industries with a lot of social interaction, Bus/taxi/train driving, Nursing and carers.
Also the poor uptake in vaccine may suggest a more general distrust of the medical services.
We have a big campaign from Doctors, celebrities and religious leaders..... to help people make a more informed decision.
I don't doubt that BAME people encounter racist incidences from the public or online ...... but there is no evidence that members from this community don't do well, either through their education or their working lives... with hard work and dedication, just the same as we all do..........We have the same rights of freedoms and that's a fundamental requirement.
There has been a great deal said about more Black people being stopped and searched by the police....... but if you look at the figures, there are more young Black males dying in knife and gang related crime than any other. When we didn't do stop and search more people were armed and more youngsters died.(so can this be counted as rascism? ....not really)
Black Africans and Chinese people do extremely well in this Country...... So if there was a problem with colour it would effect them too.... and it doesn't.
Its a complicated picture..... and I think this new independent inquiry has brought all the pieces together without trying to make a political gain.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 2, 2021 16:04:45 GMT -5
Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today show on Wednesday, the commission’s chairman Dr Tony Sewell claimed there was no evidence of institutional racism in the UK and that the phrase is wrongly used. He said: “What we have seen is that the term institutional racism is sometimes wrongly applied and it’s been a sort of catch-all phrase for microaggressions or acts of racial abuse.” www.bing.com/search?q=sewell+commision+not+institutional+racism+inquiry++uk&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=sewell+commision+not+institutional+racism+inquiry+uk&sc=1-52&sk=&cvid=72E85DD33EA54F5C8491A54B268C3C35The UK "no longer" has a system rigged against people from ethnic minorities, a review set up by No 10 says. The Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities said family structure and social class had a bigger impact than race on how people's lives turned out. It said children from minority ethnic communities did as well or better than white pupils, but overt racism remained, particularly online. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538Of course the lobbyists are up in arms..... We have a bit of a culture of grievance going on at the moment "wokeness" and people of colour may well experience racist incidences in their ordinary lives..... but there is no evidence of structural racism in this Country. BAME have the same rights and freedoms as everyone else and do just as well by living here. Asian people overrepresented in IT, Black people over represented in Sport and TV ... so its swings and roundabouts and not enough to say there is is not enough BAME people in a particular industry. .....ie.....Black Africans people do better in School than Black Afro Carribeans..... or indeed anyone else..... and as a teacher, thats something I have seen. Have to say......Its a bit bemusing that you would be fascinated by what is happening in another Country....... the UK and the US are not the same place. When I clicked on one of the links that your search posted, there was a very interesting article discounting this Sewell Commission report. You might want to read it for a better understanding of why this report missed its mark. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/31/sewell-report-racism-government-racial-disparity-uk
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 3, 2021 3:04:11 GMT -5
No ...... I know already what the lobbyists and leftist media are saying about this Inquiry. It has been discussed already and we are going in circles.
People can say what they like, that's what happens in a democracy ............. and there is always a loud noise coming from the far left. They represent themselves.....but have kicked up a fuss because this doesn't fit the wokey "victimhood" narrative.
I have no reason to think that this latest well researched inquiry, released last week, is untrue.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 3, 2021 8:17:59 GMT -5
No ...... I know already what the lobbyists and leftist media are saying about this Inquiry. It has been discussed already and we are going in circles. People can say what they like, that's what happens in a democracy ............. and there is always a loud noise coming from the far left. They represent themselves.....but have kicked up a fuss because this doesn't fit the wokey "victimhood" narrative. I have no reason to doubt that this latest well researched inquiry, released last week, is untrue. You want to believe it. They wrote it because they don't want to believe there's anything to fix or probably more true they have no interest in making things more equal. Woke seems to be a RW buzz word now. One only has to pay attention to notice racial equality has not arrived anywhere including the UK.
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Post by Opti on Apr 3, 2021 8:24:52 GMT -5
I have wondered about the drama producing British press. Harry is called a 'Gangsta Prince' upon his marriage and at least one outlet proclaimed there would be a 'Gangsta wedding'. What gang did she belong to?
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 3, 2021 10:56:51 GMT -5
No there is a list of recommendations and loads of things to fix....so that people can feel more comfortable.
Our Country.... and probably yours, is a meritocracy. If you work hard, take risk and have ambition... you will do very well. As long as people have equal opportunities I have no problem with that. It ensures progression and a vibrant society.
If it can be demonstrated that people from the BAME community have the education and access to work that is their right..... and the latest enquiry says they do..... then we don't have structural racism.
We aren't Communist, where everyone is equal..... (which is the particular liking of the far left)....and have no wish to be so.
At the moment we have a "woke" trend going on...... not sure if you have the same. Its full of entitled individuals, moaners and "poor me" people.
Infuriating in a pandemic, actually..... All of us are stressed, Its been a year...........and there is a massive queue of people to give sympathy to with a whole lot more to complain about.
It will blow over....people will realise that the rest of the World don't owe them a living.
If they want something they have to work hard for it...... and as long as the opportunities for everyone are are good...... I'll go along with that.
Never heard of Harry being called a Gangsta.
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