Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2021 19:38:04 GMT -5
www.yahoo.com/news/people-had-covid-19-may-172740532.htmlI’m on my phone and can’t easily copy and paste from the article. But the gust of it is that those of us that already had Covid produ r 10x as many antibodies from the first shot as everyone else. I wish I knew if this was true and that I did t need the second shot because I would free it up for someone else
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 3, 2021 21:30:45 GMT -5
I think you were talking in some thread with someone else about those who already had covid getting more intense side effects from the shot...
this would explain it!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2021 21:34:10 GMT -5
I think you were talking in some thread with someone else about those who already had covid getting more intense side effects from the shot... this would explain it! I did get severe chills about 14 hours after I got the shot. It was the middle of the night so I didn’t think to take my temp. DH also got chills, some serious muscle aches and 101 fever about 12 hours after his shot. As far as we know he didn’t have Covid but he could have had an asymptomatic case when I got it. He was never tested since he had no symptoms.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Feb 3, 2021 22:05:50 GMT -5
My pulmonary doctor was saying in December that they might end up deciding one shot is good enough. To be decided at this point.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Feb 4, 2021 13:38:36 GMT -5
I've been hearing a lot about switching over to a one-dose strategy for everyone not already scheduled for a second jab. Quite frankly, I agree with the argument to delay the second jab for at least three months but it takes a lot of explaining and would be a difficult sell politically. It doesn't help a bit that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trials used symptomatic COVID-19 as their endpoint instead of weekly PCR testing.
Maybe we will get lucky and the vaccination efforts in the UK will be so successful that we can point to their success and copy their strategy before we get whalloped by their B.1.1.7. variant.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 4, 2021 13:42:59 GMT -5
How are they going to have you prove you had COVID though? The antibody tests are only accurate for a limited time. I have a copy of my test results that I could use. Running titers to test everyone's antibody response to the shot would be expensive, time consuming and you can't definitively say my response to the shot is because I already caught COVID. What if we are wrong?
I would like to see more information this and if it is true and you can prove you have had COVID then that would speed things along and free up doses to give to other people who need two.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 4, 2021 14:15:36 GMT -5
Theoretically, yes. However, just because you got a positive COVID test is probably not sufficient, you also must have elicited a significant antibody response too.
The only way I think this might work is in you thing you have had COVID in the past, but you no longer hav3 an antibody titer, then 3 days after getting vaccinated they draw blood for an IgM titer. If it comes back negative, you are probably good with one dose. If you come back positive, then you did not get significant enough case and you need a second dose of vaccine.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 4, 2021 14:33:45 GMT -5
Yeah they logistics of this in the middle of a race against time is what makes me think this won't take off any time soon. Maybe in the future though if we end up needing repeat vaccinations like the flu shot or as we get things under control.
But I agree with what the doctor in the article said that as of right now we need to stick with the plan because we can't afford any more screw ups.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2021 14:36:31 GMT -5
Theoretically, yes. However, just because you got a positive COVID test is probably not sufficient, you also must have elicited a significant antibody response too. The only way I think this might work is in you thing you have had COVID in the past, but you no longer hav3 an antibody titer, then 3 days after getting vaccinated they draw blood for an IgM titer. If it comes back negative, you are probably good with one dose. If you come back positive, then you did not get significant enough case and you need a second dose of vaccine. So people with severe Covid would theoretically be ok but not those with mild to moderate? Im definitely getting my second shot. I’m not taking any chances.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 4, 2021 14:39:15 GMT -5
"People that have had Covid might only need one shot"
See this is the kind of thing I would like them to know for sure before I take it. There are way too many of this "it may be affecting people this way" and "it may be affecting people that way" things going on.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 4, 2021 15:10:48 GMT -5
Theoretically, yes. However, just because you got a positive COVID test is probably not sufficient, you also must have elicited a significant antibody response too. The only way I think this might work is in you thing you have had COVID in the past, but you no longer hav3 an antibody titer, then 3 days after getting vaccinated they draw blood for an IgM titer. If it comes back negative, you are probably good with one dose. If you come back positive, then you did not get significant enough case and you need a second dose of vaccine. So people with severe Covid would theoretically be ok but not those with mild to moderate? Im definitely getting my second shot. I’m not taking any chances. It all depends on whether you have elicited an immune response. You have several layers of immunity, but the one that you want is the specific, anamnestic (memory) response. Your mucosal tissues contain a lot of things that can protect you, so you can test positive, have an asymptomatic or mild case, and your immune system never gets kicked into gear. It isn’t that you’ve not been infected, just your body has dealt with it non specifically. I wonder how many cases of reinfection occur like this. I would imagine if you are sick enough to get symptoms, even mild or moderate, you have likely elicited an immune response. However, looking for IgM titer after a first immunization would likely answer this question. The caveat here is nothing is normal with this virus. I’d get immunized a second time too.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 4, 2021 15:13:02 GMT -5
"People that have had Covid might only need one shot" See this is the kind of thing I would like them to know for sure before I take it. There are way too many of this "it may be affecting people this way" and "it may be affecting people that way" things going on. This is science. I can’t ever remember writing in definitives. Just about every statement you make MUST be hedged because.....science.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 4, 2021 15:15:50 GMT -5
"People that have had Covid might only need one shot" See this is the kind of thing I would like them to know for sure before I take it. There are way too many of this "it may be affecting people this way" and "it may be affecting people that way" things going on. This is science. I can’t ever remember writing in definitives. Just about every statement you make MUST be hedged because.....science. My professor said you can't prove a negative. I can't prove you will never need another shot. I can only prove that you don't need one right now, which this study doesn't prove either.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 4, 2021 15:43:48 GMT -5
"People that have had Covid might only need one shot" See this is the kind of thing I would like them to know for sure before I take it. There are way too many of this "it may be affecting people this way" and "it may be affecting people that way" things going on. This is science. I can’t ever remember writing in definitives. Just about every statement you make MUST be hedged because.....science. There is room to be a lot more definitive about things than they have been. It's not like anyone is begging me to take the vaccine, I'm way down on the priority list and they haven't even started vaccinations in my area yet, so I get to see what happens to all you guinea pigs first. At least I will see the short term effects. Who knows about long term.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 4, 2021 15:45:35 GMT -5
This is science. I can’t ever remember writing in definitives. Just about every statement you make MUST be hedged because.....science. My professor said you can't prove a negative. I can't prove you will never need another shot. I can only prove that you don't need one right now, which this study doesn't prove either. I think this premise is the hardest for people to wrap their brains around. You only know what you think you know, but your next piece of data can turn everything you know on its ear. This is why the information coming from the scientists has shifted so much in the past year. As stuff has been learned about this virus, recommendations have shifted. When AIDS came on the scene, this happened over a 5-7 year period so it wasn’t as apparent. With COVID, we have learned a tremendous amount in less than a year, and have only scratched the surface. There is so much we don’t know, and can only postulate why.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Feb 4, 2021 16:04:11 GMT -5
This is science. I can’t ever remember writing in definitives. Just about every statement you make MUST be hedged because.....science. There is room to be a lot more definitive about things than they have been. It's not like anyone is begging me to take the vaccine, I'm way down on the priority list and they haven't even started vaccinations in my area yet, so I get to see what happens to all you guinea pigs first. At least I will see the short term effects. Who knows about long term. Doesn’t work that way. The amount of proof you need to make statements like that is significant. In medicine, you need to be able to deal with uncertainty. But that doesn’t make the public happy
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 4, 2021 16:16:25 GMT -5
This is science. I can’t ever remember writing in definitives. Just about every statement you make MUST be hedged because.....science. There is room to be a lot more definitive about things than they have been. It's not like anyone is begging me to take the vaccine, I'm way down on the priority list and they haven't even started vaccinations in my area yet, so I get to see what happens to all you guinea pigs first. At least I will see the short term effects. Who knows about long term. Sure and in the meantime millions more people will die, especially in areas of the world that are not enjoying Western European privilege. So we can either sit around and wait till everyone's information thresh hold has been satisfied, which I can attest will be never, or we go with what we got in order to hopefully save as many lives as we can. This was how my grandmother talked about getting the polio vaccine for my dad. Sure she could wait and in the meantime my father contracts it, dies or ends up horribly paralyzed. Or she could go with the glimmer of hope and worry about the long term later. She told me she would have chopped off her arm as a sacrifice if that is what it took to get a vaccination. We have gotten incredibly spoiled, especially in the Western World, when it comes to disease. It is incredibly privileged to sit there and say you are going to wait for the "guinea pigs" to get it because you don't feel there is enough information. It is incredibly privileged for people to turn their nose up at the J&J vaccine and insist they will wait for one of the others. Many people in the world don't have that choice. Not just about COVID but numerous diseases. You have the right to wait if that is your decision but I hope you recognize what a luxury that is for you.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 4, 2021 16:30:38 GMT -5
"People that have had Covid might only need one shot" See this is the kind of thing I would like them to know for sure before I take it. There are way too many of this "it may be affecting people this way" and "it may be affecting people that way" things going on. My company sells some regulated products. We were talking to R&D the other day about the timeline of a new product. He so eloquently told us that a 12 month study takes 12 months. I am sorry we don't have years of data about this particular virus and these particular vaccines. But you can't get 12 months of data in 3 months. If you are concerned, you can wait.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 4, 2021 16:56:03 GMT -5
My professor said you can't prove a negative. I can't prove you will never need another shot. I can only prove that you don't need one right now, which this study doesn't prove either. I think this premise is the hardest for people to wrap their brains around. You only know what you think you know, but your next piece of data can turn everything you know on its ear. This is why the information coming from the scientists has shifted so much in the past year. As stuff has been learned about this virus, recommendations have shifted. When AIDS came on the scene, this happened over a 5-7 year period so it wasn’t as apparent. With COVID, we have learned a tremendous amount in less than a year, and have only scratched the surface. There is so much we don’t know, and can only postulate why. How can you agree that they don't really know much and that they are guessing on what will work and then criticize me for saying it and saying it bothers me?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 4, 2021 16:59:01 GMT -5
"People that have had Covid might only need one shot" See this is the kind of thing I would like them to know for sure before I take it. There are way too many of this "it may be affecting people this way" and "it may be affecting people that way" things going on. My company sells some regulated products. We were talking to R&D the other day about the timeline of a new product. He so eloquently told us that a 12 month study takes 12 months. I am sorry we don't have years of data about this particular virus and these particular vaccines. But you can't get 12 months of data in 3 months. If you are concerned, you can wait. Like I said. it's not even an option for me for a while yet so that's moot. But you are acting like only not taking the vaccine could have negative consequences. Why do you find it so easy to dismiss amy possible negative consequences of taking it?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 4, 2021 17:02:59 GMT -5
My company sells some regulated products. We were talking to R& the other day about the timeline of a new product. He so eloquently told us that a 12 month study takes 12 months. I am sorry we don't have years of data about this particular virus and these particular vaccines. But you can't get 12 months of data in 3 months. If you are concerned, you can wait. Like I said. it's not even an option for me for a while yet so that's moot. But you are acting like only not taking the vaccine could have negative consequences. Why do you find it so easy to dismiss amy possible negative consequences of taking it? Cause COVID right now can kill me, my loved ones or leave us all disabled in various forms. The vaccines offer between a 60-95% (the latter of which is a miracle) that me and my loved ones won't end up as either of those. I'd like to live past 37. If I get cancer in my 60's and it's found out later that it was due to the COVID vaccine I can live with that. You do understand that none of the technology that went into this vaccine is new right? It did not appear out of thin air. Decades of research have been built upon to create these vaccines. There have been several mRNA vaccines that have made it to clinical trials for HIV but due to the nature of the virus it did not generate the desired immunity so was scraped. There are several flu vaccines using mRNA that are in animal/first stage trials. We are not playing with "things we don't understand" we are playing with things we understand very well it's just this is the first one YOU are hearing about because it made it past clinicals and into the market.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 4, 2021 17:03:46 GMT -5
I think this premise is the hardest for people to wrap their brains around. You only know what you think you know, but your next piece of data can turn everything you know on its ear. This is why the information coming from the scientists has shifted so much in the past year. As stuff has been learned about this virus, recommendations have shifted. When AIDS came on the scene, this happened over a 5-7 year period so it wasn’t as apparent. With COVID, we have learned a tremendous amount in less than a year, and have only scratched the surface. There is so much we don’t know, and can only postulate why. How can you agree that they don't really know much and that they are guessing on what will work and then criticize me for saying it and saying it bothers me? Who criticized you? I said that this premise of not talking definitively wrt to science is difficult to wrap your brain around. And for me, my risk is higher than the average bear with regards to COVID. I prefer to minimize my risks, because I trust the science of what they currently know more than getting the virus.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 4, 2021 17:13:16 GMT -5
Like I said. it's not even an option for me for a while yet so that's moot. But you are acting like only not taking the vaccine could have negative consequences. Why do you find it so easy to dismiss amy possible negative consequences of taking it? Cause COVID right now can kill me, my loved ones or leave us all disabled in various forms. The vaccines offer between a 60-95% (the latter of which is a miracle) that me and my loved ones won't end up as either of those. I'd like to live past 37. If I get cancer in my 60's and it's found out later that it was due to the COVID vaccine I can live with that. You do understand that none of the technology that went into this vaccine is new right? It did not appear out of thin air. Decades of research have been built upon to create these vaccines. There have been several mRNA vaccines that have made it to clinical trials for HIV but due to the nature of the virus it did not generate the desired immunity so was scraped. There are several flu vaccines using mRNA that are in animal/first stage trials. We are not playing with "things we don't understand" we are playing with things we understand very well it's just this is the first one YOU are hearing about because it made it past clinicals and into the market. Correction it was rushed through clinicals and onto the market.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Feb 4, 2021 17:14:43 GMT -5
My professor said you can't prove a negative. I can't prove you will never need another shot. I can only prove that you don't need one right now, which this study doesn't prove either. I think this premise is the hardest for people to wrap their brains around. You only know what you think you know, but your next piece of data can turn everything you know on its ear. This is why the information coming from the scientists has shifted so much in the past year. As stuff has been learned about this virus, recommendations have shifted. When AIDS came on the scene, this happened over a 5-7 year period so it wasn’t as apparent. With COVID, we have learned a tremendous amount in less than a year, and have only scratched the surface. There is so much we don’t know, and can only postulate why. Please stop! You're giving me flashbacks to the late eighties and early nineties when I had to listen to earnest young and not-so-young things who had some sort of formal training talking about ARC. We had to thank them for not being afraid of AIDS and being willing to talk about it while simultaneously telling everyone around us that their distinction was kinda BS-tastic.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 4, 2021 17:24:30 GMT -5
Cause COVID right now can kill me, my loved ones or leave us all disabled in various forms. The vaccines offer between a 60-95% (the latter of which is a miracle) that me and my loved ones won't end up as either of those. I'd like to live past 37. If I get cancer in my 60's and it's found out later that it was due to the COVID vaccine I can live with that. You do understand that none of the technology that went into this vaccine is new right? It did not appear out of thin air. Decades of research have been built upon to create these vaccines. There have been several mRNA vaccines that have made it to clinical trials for HIV but due to the nature of the virus it did not generate the desired immunity so was scraped. There are several flu vaccines using mRNA that are in animal/first stage trials. We are not playing with "things we don't understand" we are playing with things we understand very well it's just this is the first one YOU are hearing about because it made it past clinicals and into the market. Correction it was rushed through clinicals and onto the market. [b So how long would have been enough? How many more lives would be lost in that time frame? We don't have the luxury to wait. If you are in a position to hold till you are comfortable then props to you. Many don't and it would be horribly cruel to force them to remain at risk.till certain privileged feel their thresholds are met. In a global pandemic we can't wait for perfect
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 4, 2021 18:10:21 GMT -5
My company sells some regulated products. We were talking to R&D the other day about the timeline of a new product. He so eloquently told us that a 12 month study takes 12 months. I am sorry we don't have years of data about this particular virus and these particular vaccines. But you can't get 12 months of data in 3 months. If you are concerned, you can wait. Like I said. it's not even an option for me for a while yet so that's moot. But you are acting like only not taking the vaccine could have negative consequences. Why do you find it so easy to dismiss amy possible negative consequences of taking it? I said absolutely none of that.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Feb 4, 2021 18:30:49 GMT -5
I would like as many people who don't want it to wait, so my chance of getting it, gets closer
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Feb 4, 2021 19:22:21 GMT -5
Cause COVID right now can kill me, my loved ones or leave us all disabled in various forms. The vaccines offer between a 60-95% (the latter of which is a miracle) that me and my loved ones won't end up as either of those. I'd like to live past 37. If I get cancer in my 60's and it's found out later that it was due to the COVID vaccine I can live with that. You do understand that none of the technology that went into this vaccine is new right? It did not appear out of thin air. Decades of research have been built upon to create these vaccines. There have been several mRNA vaccines that have made it to clinical trials for HIV but due to the nature of the virus it did not generate the desired immunity so was scraped. There are several flu vaccines using mRNA that are in animal/first stage trials. We are not playing with "things we don't understand" we are playing with things we understand very well it's just this is the first one YOU are hearing about because it made it past clinicals and into the market. Correction it was rushed through clinicals and onto the market. What do you need to know about the vaccine that we don’t, since you believe it was rushed? The trials were completed. Short term side effects are known, and no different than any other vaccine. To know more about long term side effects requires more time. While we do that, people like me and my coworkers remain at high risk without a vaccine. 450,000 Americans and 32 million worldwide have died from this. All waiting does is allows the numbers to get worse and lets the virus mutate into more dangerous forms. All of these decisions require risk benefit calculations. The idea that a vaccine causes side effects that the infection does not is not something that science would support
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 4, 2021 19:42:02 GMT -5
Like I said. it's not even an option for me for a while yet so that's moot. But you are acting like only not taking the vaccine could have negative consequences. Why do you find it so easy to dismiss amy possible negative consequences of taking it? I said absolutely none of that. Then I misunderstood what you did say.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 4, 2021 19:43:13 GMT -5
I would like as many people who don't want it to wait, so my chance of getting it, gets closer That's the attitude more people should have, I have never suggested anyone else not take it.
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