ripvanwinkle
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Sept 3, 2023 18:27:25 GMT -5
I'm going to have to stand by my statement. IF the police agency in charge had acted on the credible intel evidence from the FBI,CIA and other intel agencies and had a show of force, Jan 6 would not have turned into a riot. If a General in the army got intel there was going to be a attack on his forces and didn't act on it and the battle was lost, he would be removed and court-martialed. The same applies here. Who, if anyone, got called on the carpet for their dereliction of duty and what was their punishment? The fact that Trump got the crowd excited is a moot point in my book.
The insurrectionists left the building, Congress carried on, and Biden is now President. Things worked out as needed. A major show of force easily could have lead to a worse outcome. Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. |
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 3, 2023 18:31:35 GMT -5
The insurrectionists left the building, Congress carried on, and Biden is now President. Things worked out as needed. A major show of force easily could have lead to a worse outcome. Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. Guess it is my turn to call you out for avoiding the substance of the post. |
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Pink Cashmere
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Post by Pink Cashmere on Sept 3, 2023 18:44:27 GMT -5
The insurrectionists left the building, Congress carried on, and Biden is now President. Things worked out as needed. A major show of force easily could have lead to a worse outcome. Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. You say “sadly”, but do you agree that he is President because our government and election process worked the way it is supposed to, and the laws of the land were adhered to? |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 3, 2023 18:56:12 GMT -5
The insurrectionists left the building, Congress carried on, and Biden is now President. Things worked out as needed. A major show of force easily could have lead to a worse outcome. Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. Who was the lawfully elected president in the November 2020 election? You are absolving the Commander in chief of quite a bit on January 6. The president is the only person who can call in the DC National guard. The capitol police are not equipped to deal with a riot. If trump had acted like the president that day, none of this would have happened. Instead, he acted like a petulant child, and you continue to defend him. If Pelosi had done what you think she should have gone, all you conservatives would be complaining about her turning it into a police state. And you know it |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2023 19:02:01 GMT -5
Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. You say “sadly”, but do you agree that he is President because our government and election process worked the way it is supposed to, and the laws of the land were adhered to?  |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 3, 2023 19:24:03 GMT -5
Raiders of the Lost Ark without the scene on the island where the Ark is opened.
The Lord of the Rings without the final struggle between Frodo and Gollum on Mount Doom.
Independence Day without the Randy Quaid character flying up the Mothership's ... .
The Trump Conspiracy to Thwart Democracy without his minions invading the Capitol on January 6th.
Some things just have to happen.
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ripvanwinkle
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Sept 3, 2023 19:25:22 GMT -5
Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. You say “sadly”, but do you agree that he is President because our government and election process worked the way it is supposed to, and the laws of the land were adhered to? And again sadly, Biden is President. And yes the election process worked the way it's supposed to and the laws of the land were adhered to. |
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Post by Opti on Sept 3, 2023 19:26:26 GMT -5
Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. Who was the lawfully elected president in the November 2020 election? You are absolving the Commander in chief of quite a bit on January 6. The president is the only person who can call in the DC National guard. The capitol police are not equipped to deal with a riot. If trump had acted like the president that day, none of this would have happened. Instead, he acted like a petulant child, and you continue to defend him. If Pelosi had done what you think she should have gone, all you conservatives would be complaining about her turning it into a police state. And you know it I found this article earlier. www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/politics/capitol-police-chief-national-guard-help/index.htmlI n a rare moment of bipartisanship, the House and Senate have passed by unanimous consent a bill that would give the chief of the US Capitol Police unilateral control to ask for support from the National Guard or federal law enforcement in the event of an emergency.
Inspector General Michael Bolton told the Senate Rules and Administration Committee earlier this month that only a fraction of the recommended changes to department following the January 6 riot have been implemented. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2023 21:33:36 GMT -5
You say “sadly”, but do you agree that he is President because our government and election process worked the way it is supposed to, and the laws of the land were adhered to? And again sadly, Biden is President. And yes the election process worked the way it's supposed to and the laws of the land were adhered to. So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? |
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ripvanwinkle
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Sept 4, 2023 1:35:36 GMT -5
And again sadly, Biden is President. And yes the election process worked the way it's supposed to and the laws of the land were adhered to. So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? |
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Post by Opti on Sept 4, 2023 2:04:01 GMT -5
So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? He does not believe he did. He has many failed election lawsuits filed without proof that failed. He just lies for his own ego and to get more money. That's worked for him so long, he does not want to stop. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2023 2:24:21 GMT -5
So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? to paraphrase Jack Smith, you are free to believe whatever you like. you are not free to ACT on those beliefs, if they fall outside the law. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2023 2:26:58 GMT -5
True, the day would have gone differently. Would it have gone better? I say no. Did anyone ever find out who and why they did not act to have a strong police force and what punishment did they get? no. but it has been established that it was not Pelosi's fault. i just want to point out that the lack of police response does NOT forgive the criminal conduct of the 1000 people that have been charged with ransacking the capitol. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2023 2:28:07 GMT -5
The insurrectionists left the building, Congress carried on, and Biden is now President. Things worked out as needed. A major show of force easily could have lead to a worse outcome. Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. the alternative to Biden was untenable. so, be sad if you like, but be glad we still have a republic. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2023 2:29:54 GMT -5
Yes sadly, Biden is President. But that is fodder for another thread. Who was the lawfully elected president in the November 2020 election? You are absolving the Commander in chief of quite a bit on January 6. The president is the only person who can call in the DC National guard. The capitol police are not equipped to deal with a riot. If trump had acted like the president that day, none of this would have happened. Instead, he acted like a petulant child, and you continue to defend him. If Pelosi had done what you think she should have gone, all you conservatives would be complaining about her turning it into a police state. And you know it i would argue that he acted like a fascist. he didn't call the DCNG because it would have stopped what he WANTED to have happen. |
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Sept 4, 2023 6:44:22 GMT -5
How does the stink of Trump sitting there for 3 hours before calling them off smell to ya? I've asked many Trump supporters this question and never get an answer. You''re deflecting. Better question is just who was responsible to provide security knowing the potential for violence and why did they not act? If there had been a show of force it wouldn't have happened like it did. I didn't expect to get an answer. I would just like one Trump supporter to explain the how they justify Trump's actions that day. Not only sitting there for 3 hours before he called them off, but the tweet he sent about his own VP to feed the frenzy. All he had to do was send one tweet when the violence started. One tweet that said how his party respects police officers and the protest is to be peaceful. One tweet. I can only imagine if a big show of force had been used and multi-deaths occurred how happy Trump would have been. That is exactly what he was waiting so long to happen. And why Trump supporters can't see this is the most mind boggling thing to me. |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 4, 2023 7:49:56 GMT -5
You''re deflecting. Better question is just who was responsible to provide security knowing the potential for violence and why did they not act? If there had been a show of force it wouldn't have happened like it did. I didn't expect to get an answer. I would just like one Trump supporter to explain the how they justify Trump's actions that day. Not only sitting there for 3 hours before he called them off, but the tweet he sent about his own VP to feed the frenzy. All he had to do was send one tweet when the violence started. One tweet that said how his party respects police officers and the protest is to be peaceful. One tweet. I can only imagine if a big show of force had been used and multi-deaths occurred how happy Trump would have been. That is exactly what he was waiting so long to happen. And why Trump supporters can't see this is the most mind boggling thing to me. The mind boggling thing to me is how the MAGA insist all the trouble making protestors there that day were Antifa and/or FBI plants. All these arrests of all these people whose backgrounds show them to be far righties, and reports about the organized assaults by the Proud Boys and the rest - yet my SIL adamantly insists that none of those arrested are really who the media claim they are (and I guess they are going to jail despite being government plants?) That’s some hard core willful ignorance there. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 4, 2023 7:59:22 GMT -5
So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? So trump has no connection to reality. If he initially believed it, ok. Wrong but I can understand. He lost 60 lawsuits trying to argue he did. He had republicans like McConnell, who belatedly told him he lost. He still refused to believe it. So he unleashed January 6 riots. And 3 years later, he is still telling the lie, and people like you support him. Trump is either the dumbest person on the planet, or believes people like you are, because there isn’t one scintilla of proof to prevent that belief. His unwillingness to accept reality is only one of the many reasons he is not qualified to be president |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 4, 2023 8:03:35 GMT -5
I didn't expect to get an answer. I would just like one Trump supporter to explain the how they justify Trump's actions that day. Not only sitting there for 3 hours before he called them off, but the tweet he sent about his own VP to feed the frenzy. All he had to do was send one tweet when the violence started. One tweet that said how his party respects police officers and the protest is to be peaceful. One tweet. I can only imagine if a big show of force had been used and multi-deaths occurred how happy Trump would have been. That is exactly what he was waiting so long to happen. And why Trump supporters can't see this is the most mind boggling thing to me. The mind boggling thing to me is how the MAGA insist all the trouble making protestors there that day were Antifa and/or FBI plants. All these arrests of all these people whose backgrounds show them to be far righties, and reports about the organized assaults by the Proud Boys and the rest - yet my SIL adamantly insists that none of those arrested are really who the media claim they are (and I guess they are going to jail despite being government plants?) That’s some hard core willful ignorance there. Just an example of their willful blindness. They do not want to consider that they could be enthralled by a charlatan. And Trump takes advantage of that |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 4, 2023 8:27:12 GMT -5
So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? You realize the idea to claim the election was fraudulent was cooked up before Election Day, right? Literally, Trump decided that he would be the winner, and if the vote showed otherwise, he would claim the election was stolen from him, even BEFORE the first vote was cast. So his claim that there was fraud really has zero basis in what actually happened on Election Day. Roger Stone got caught on video explaining this ploy prior to the election - you can google it. Plus go back to the weeks before the election when Trump was actively sowing the seed of mistrust with his minions by insisting the only possible way he could lose would be if there was cheating involved. To Trump, the actual vote was unimportant. What was important was instantly declaring himself the winner on Election Day, and sticking with that statement regardless of the facts, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. To do otherwise would admit he was a loser. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 4, 2023 8:42:35 GMT -5
So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? Not from Georgia so didn't pay attention to this at the time. Researched it: Stacey Abrams: It is ‘wrong’ to compare her refusal to concede with Trump’s stolen election rhetoric Abrams acknowledged her loss to Kemp days after the 2018 election. But she attributed that defeat — by less than 1.4 percentage points — to efforts by Kemp, then the secretary of state, to suppress voter turnout. Kemp denied the allegations. Significant difference. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 4, 2023 8:56:53 GMT -5
He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? You realize the idea to claim the election was fraudulent was cooked up before Election Day, right? Literally, Trump decided that he would be the winner, and if the vote showed otherwise, he would claim the election was stolen from him, even BEFORE the first vote was cast. So his claim that there was fraud really has zero basis in what actually happened on Election Day. Roger Stone got caught on video explaining this ploy prior to the election - you can google it. Plus go back to the weeks before the election when Trump was actively sowing the seed of mistrust with his minions by insisting the only possible way he could lose would be if there was cheating involved. To Trump, the actual vote was unimportant. What was important was instantly declaring himself the winner on Election Day, and sticking with that statement regardless of the facts, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. To do otherwise would admit he was a loser. It actually started prior to the 2016 election: Stone’s political action committee launched a “Stop the Steal” website in 2016 to fundraise ahead of that election, asking for $10,000 donations by saying, “If this election is close, THEY WILL STEAL IT.”
He first trotted out the slogan during the 2016 primaries – claiming a “Bush-Cruz-Kasich-Romney-Ryan-McConnell faction” was attempting to steal the Republican nomination from Donald Trump – before re-upping Stop the Steal for the general election.
“Donald Trump thinks Hillary Clinton and the Democrats are going to steal the next election,” his website said that October.
link Then you have: Trump falsely claims ‘millions of people who voted illegally’ cost him popular votePresident-elect Donald Trump alleged Sunday, without evidence, that “millions of people” voted illegally for Hillary Clinton and otherwise he would have won the popular vote. It’s an unprecedented allegation by a president-elect.
Trump won the Electoral College and thus the White House, but the Democratic nominee leads him in the popular vote by about two million ballots.
“In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,” Trump tweeted.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 4, 2023 9:37:17 GMT -5
i have been arguing that the Judiciary is the last vestige of liberalism in the US. and that is a GOOD thing. apparently i am not the ONLY one who sees things that way, unfortunately: if the GOP succeeds, America is doomed. so far, the judicial branch has HELD. so far. Did the video change here? What I see is Americans voting, election officials professionally doing their jobs, and then - after that - the Judiciary not folding. And, yes, that is all a good thing. |
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Sept 4, 2023 9:48:16 GMT -5
And don't forget when Trump lost to Cruz in Iowa in 2016: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump on Wednesday accused rival Ted Cruz of stealing a victory in the Iowa caucuses and called for another vote or nullification of Cruz’s win.
“Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it,” Trump (@realdonaldtrump) tweeted. “That is why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. Bad!” www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-cruz-idUSKCN0VC1Z6 |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2023 9:55:16 GMT -5
So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? Bless your trump loving heart. I did not ask about Abrams. Your 'WhatAboutism' is truly out of control. Trump lost at least sixty-three state court cases which denied trump's claim the elections were rigged against him. His daughter Ivanka has testified her father rightfully lost the election. Many of his personal advisors told trump he rightfully lost the election. Trump continues to claim the election was stolen from him so saps like you back him up on his fake belief but also continue to send their dollars to support his eventual loss in 2024. You are just an ATM machine to trump with no code needed to get free money out of it. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2023 10:03:43 GMT -5
So is donald trump a liar when he claims he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? At least Abrams stated in a speech Kemp won the governor's election. trump has never, ever said in public Biden is the president and in public wished him well. Abrams defends lack of concession after 2018 gubernatorial loss |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2023 11:49:06 GMT -5
He believes he did. Stacy Abrams also believed she won her election and kept spouting off on it like Trump. People believe in God. Are they wrong in their beliefs? Hell, I believe my ex brother in law is a real turd. Does this make me wrong? At least Abrams stated in a speech Kemp won the governor's election. trump has never, ever said in public Biden is the president and in public wished him well. Abrams defends lack of concession after 2018 gubernatorial lossand again, to be clear, Abrams OPINION was not illegal. neither was Trumps. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 5, 2023 12:23:01 GMT -5
Januaury 6, 2021 rioters at the Capitol building.  |
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Sept 5, 2023 17:31:16 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 5, 2023 17:38:39 GMT -5
Should have gotten 33 years, the max. Twenty-two years though does send a message. |
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