Interesting take on Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer TV specia

[Opti]

l

Found this article and later researched it. I think Wikipedia said the special was created in the early 1960s and used noted animator(s)? from Japan for the deer and its general style. Wondering what posters think about this guy's or Flanagan's opinion. I never saw this special as pro or anti-gay. Watching this also was a tradition during the Christmas season along with the Grinch, etc.


www.thenation.com/article/culture/rudolph-red-nosed-reindeer-atlantic-flanagan/

Holiday specials, a staple of North American childhoods since the early 1960s, are increasingly falling victim to our fragmented media culture. Just as the liturgical calendar gave structure to the lives of the medieval peasants, an equally ritualized TV schedule shaped a communal culture in the era of the cathode tube: The Ten Commandments for Easter, It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown for Halloween, and then, after Thanksgiving, a slew of familiar shows and movies revisited every year: A Charlie Brown Christmas, Dr. Seuss’ How the Grinch Stole Christmas, Frosty the Snowman,It’s a Wonderful Life, and the many iterations of A Christmas Carol.



But television is giving way to Youtube and streaming, which makes for more privatized and asynchronous viewing: With everyone watching on their own electronic device and in their own time, the idea of a shared experience represented by TV specials seems anachronistic. There is evidence, though, that communal viewing remains something people cherish and want to hold on to. As PBS reports, “Apple TV+ purchased the Peanuts Thanksgiving and became the new home to the beloved Peanuts holiday specials. That sparked an outcry from viewers who were accustomed to annually tuning in on network TV.


Writing in the December issue of The Atlantic, the astute cultural critic Caitlin Flanagan makes the case against one of the most beloved of the old specials in an article bluntly titled, “Don’t Subject Your Kids to Rudolph.” According to Flanagan, Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (a 1964 stop-motion animation special made by Rankin/Bass Productions) is too “bleak” and “dark” for children.

[djAdvocate]

I never saw RTRNR as dark.

[flan327]

Leave Rudolph alone

I've read crap like this before..and it's infuriating

The island of misfit toys?
Bumbles bounce?
The elf who wants to be a dentist?
Burl Ives songs??

It's holiday magic

[flan327]

Now "The Wizard of Oz" is actually too dark for children.

[tractor]

Dec 3, 2020 7:29:49 GMT -5 flan327 said:

Now "The Wizard of Oz" is actually too dark for children.

It still scares the crap out of me....

[flan327]

Dec 3, 2020 8:41:41 GMT -5 tractor said:

Dec 3, 2020 7:29:49 GMT -5 flan327 said:

Now "The Wizard of Oz" is actually too dark for children.

It still scares the crap out of me....

Those flying monkeys...

What a nightmare.

[haapai]

I hated Rudolph as a kid.  The bullying and toadying bothered me a lot.  It also seemed to glorify running away, which had been told not to do. 

[flan327]

Dec 3, 2020 9:12:42 GMT -5 haapai said:

I hated Rudolph as a kid.  The bullying and toadying bothered me a lot.  It also seemed to glorify running away, which had been told not to do. 

But kids have to deal with bullies IRL

And his father...who started out being ashamed of his son because he was different?

I dont think it glorifies running away. Rudolph was alone in a snowstorm

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience

[Opti]

Dec 3, 2020 9:12:42 GMT -5 haapai said:

I hated Rudolph as a kid.  The bullying and toadying bothered me a lot.  It also seemed to glorify running away, which had been told not to do. 

I loved Rudolph as a kid and still do. I love Speed Racer the cartoon and the newer movie. Some parents chose to see the latter as celebrating disobeying your parents which might be where you are coming from. In RL there is bullying and suck-ups. I got bullied when I moved to my new neighborhood at 5 1/2 years old. It did not stop until I was in HS and only because the bullies were not upper tracked like I was and it took too much effort I guess to continue.

Parents can't and won't protect you from everything. In the TV special Rudoplh's Dad and Santa did not see his value until he saved the day and an opportunity arose to use his special genetic talent, his nose. Without the big storm, Santa would have had no reason to see him as valuable. Sure his parents got trapped by the Bumble, but Rudolph also shows the journey of the Hero or Fool (in Tarot, the start of a journey).

Clarice believed in him and so did his Mom, but it wasn't enough in the male dominated 60's for him to be content to wait around until he was full grown.

[thyme4change]

I was never a Rudolf fan. I watched it, but the voice irritated the crap out of me. The story is mediocre, and the animation isn't my favorite.

I love Wizard of Oz, but my husband has a long standing phobia of flying monkeys. He had to talk himself up to seeing Wicked on Broadway. 😊

[Opti]

I could see how the voice could be annoying. I like Burl Ives narration though, and have been a fan of Japanese anime for awhile. Wizard of Oz gave me nightmares too. More the witch on the bicycle, than her minions the flying monkeys.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_the_Red-Nosed_Reindeer

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer is a fictional reindeer created by Robert Lewis May. Rudolph is usually depicted as the ninth and youngest of Santa Claus's reindeer, using his luminous red nose to lead the reindeer team and guide Santa's sleigh on Christmas Eve. Though he initially receives ridicule for his nose as a fawn, the brightness of his nose is so powerful that it illuminates the team's path through harsh winter weather. Ronald D. Lankford, Jr., described Rudolph's story as "the fantasy story made to order for American children: each child has the need to express and receive approval for his or her individuality and/or special qualities. Rudolph's story embodies the American Dream for the child, written large because of the cultural significance of Christmas."[1]



Rudolph first appeared in a 1939 booklet written by Robert L. May and published by Montgomery Ward, the department store.[2][3][4]



The story is owned by The Rudolph Company, LP and has been adapted and shaped in numerous forms including a popular song by Johnny Marks, the iconic 1964 stop-motion animated television special and its two sequels from Rankin/Bass Productions, as well as the 1998 traditional animated feature film and a 2001 CGI sequel from GoodTimes Entertainment.[5]

FWIW, I loved the play the Wiz, which I think I saw live in Chicago.

[Tiny]

I never got the same 'warm fuzzies' every one else got from that Rudolph special.

I admit I was fascinated by the look and feel of it - but the story line always made me cringe.

I'm not LGBTQ (but I don't always come across as straight.) I was bullied in school and my home life was, so so.

I did identify with being an "outcast" and "not fitting in". After a situation at school (6th grade) that was related to the bullying I was enduring - the adults in charge told me that "I should try harder to fit in". That was their solution. I should try harder to get along with my classmates. I wasn't the only one getting bullied - there was a girl in a back brace, a girl who stuttered, and an overweight/obese girl (mind you this was the 70's). The "loser club" also included a smart/pretty/painfully shy girl (who wasn't blonde like the in-crowd), a girl with immigrant parents (who spoke broken english), and me. 4 of this crowd were the A students and always held up as examples to the class. Not that hard to extrapolate to the Island of Misfit toys.

The thing I hated most about the Rudolph show was the "happy ending" - it doesn't work that way in real life. Well, it didn't look that way to me when I was looking at more years of grade school (with the exact same kids) and I thought if GS was this bad - High School had to be really awful. So, no happy ending.    I didn't see a time/place where the Misfits would actually be something other then Misfits and that there would always be two (or more) groups even into adulthood - cause the adults did it too. 

High School was better - there were more kids and groups to join be a part of... but I admit I've carried that "I'm an outsider" feeling through out my life.     

I get where the author of the article is going - I just think they are a little short sighted - that show sucks for anyone who's on the "outside" and who feels there's no relief on the horizon.


And ADDED:  FWIW,  Rudolph is just a version of an Ugly Duckling story.   And it does have some good stuff.   Just like the Ugly Duckling - if you don't fit in - move on to another group eventually you will find a group/place where you do fit in.  Even if it's on the wrong side of what's acceptable by society.       And if you are extra special in some way - you will be able to cross the line over to the other side, but you will NEVER be a true part of the other side.  Because the people on the "misfit" side aren't accepted.  There may even come a point when you have to choose your side and maybe abandon your friends or betray your internal integrity.  having to go back and forth across the line - is stressful and demanding and harmful. 

[flan327]

School kids CAN mature and learn to see past a person's exterior

[Tiny]

Nilsson's The Point (a trippy animated movie with some influence by the Beatles) is a bit more optimistic about the "not fitting in" part of life.

It's also an Ugly Duckling story of sorts. 

[Tennesseer]

Dec 3, 2020 7:29:49 GMT -5 flan327 said:

Now "The Wizard of Oz" is actually too dark for children.

I have told this story before so I won't go into a lot of detail. Around age five or six, I was hit by a car while crossing the street in front of my home.

For about 15 years I had the same periodic nightmare which involved in part being hit by a car. Part of the nightmare involved a witch picking me up and dropping me in the middle of a road. I later figured it out the witch was the witch from the Wizard of Oz. Nightmare stopped.

Funny thing is the tornado in the Oz. Ovie scared me the first time I watched the movie. I stopped watching it. Today, tornadoes fascinate me.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 3, 2020 7:29:49 GMT -5 flan327 said:

Now "The Wizard of Oz" is actually too dark for children.

You seen The Dark Crystal by Jim Henson?  Now THAT is too dark for kids.   I know from his biography he didn't intend it for kids it was an art film and he wanted to break away from family friendly muppets.   Parents didn't see it that way.

I believe I watched it at daycare which you wouldn't get away with now. The Skeksis scared the ever loving crap out of me.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

The worst for me was the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Dude gave me nightmares. 

[Artemis Windsong]

These people who think RTRNRD is bad need to be policing the music and video games these children are playing.

[Tiny]

Dec 3, 2020 11:40:50 GMT -5 flan327 said:

School kids CAN mature and learn to see past a person's exterior

I agree with you.      

As far as the Rudolph thing goes - I think parents (or adults in charge) can observe how their kid/the kids watching it react to it and maybe it can open up some discussions.   

And that is what helps kids mature or learn better ways to deal with others/cope with everyday life.  

[Tiny]

Dec 3, 2020 11:49:41 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Dec 3, 2020 7:29:49 GMT -5 flan327 said:

Now "The Wizard of Oz" is actually too dark for children.

You seen The Dark Crystal by Jim Henson?  Now THAT is too dark for kids.   I know from his biography he didn't intend it for kids it was an art film and he wanted to break away from family friendly muppets.   Parents didn't see it that way.

I believe I watched it at daycare which you wouldn't get away with now. The Skeksis scared the ever loving crap out of me.

   The Skeksis in the netflix reboot or maybe it's a pre or post quel?   - are even more terrifying.        
  
I think it's kind of like it's ok for kids shows to have high body counts - as long as there isn't any blood or bodies shown and as long as no one talks about the death and destruction left behind.   

(I think that's why modern 'enemies' of heroes (in kid's shows)  became robots - it's ok to "kill" robots. ) 

[Tiny]

Dec 3, 2020 12:28:07 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

These people who think RTRNRD is bad need to be policing the music and video games these children are playing.

And lots of other cartoons and anime and movies.  

I know when I was a younger adult I was kind of "numb" to much of the sexualization, violence, death, and lack of empathy in a lot of entertainment mediums - some of which were watched by children (but may have been intended for adults). 


I remember seeing a reboot of the Mutant Teenage Ninja Turtles movie and there being a whole lot of tween and younger movie viewers... and it made me a little uncomfortable.  

I love all the incarnations of MTNT  - I've got the graphic novels/comic books which are definitely NOT for children (or tweens).  

[Opti]

Dec 3, 2020 11:49:41 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Dec 3, 2020 7:29:49 GMT -5 flan327 said:

Now "The Wizard of Oz" is actually too dark for children.

You seen The Dark Crystal by Jim Henson?  Now THAT is too dark for kids.   I know from his biography he didn't intend it for kids it was an art film and he wanted to break away from family friendly muppets.   Parents didn't see it that way.

I believe I watched it at daycare which you wouldn't get away with now. The Skeksis scared the ever loving crap out of me.

I'm sorry your idiot daycare showed that to you. That movie is not for kids, I'd probably rate it N-17 or whatever that rating is because of content. I liked the movie, but it did give some unsettling nightmares. But if you think of it, its almost Trumpian. An old group is trying to stay in power by literally sucking the life out of others.

People can be idiots. Being animated or having puppets is just a form of art. Most Japanese anime is not appropriate for kids and much the Archer cartoon, may not be all that appropriate for most adults either.

[Opti]

Dec 3, 2020 12:28:07 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

These people who think RTRNRD is bad need to be policing the music and video games these children are playing.

I had a heck of a wake up call when I decided to play Halo 3 with the son of the person I was renting a room from. I do not like violence, but I did my best to get through it, because he needed someone to be there that day. I find it eye opening sometimes to see what jr high schoolers do now compared to what I remember.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 3, 2020 13:45:25 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Dec 3, 2020 12:28:07 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

These people who think RTRNRD is bad need to be policing the music and video games these children are playing.

And lots of other cartoons and anime and movies.  

I know when I was a younger adult I was kind of "numb" to much of the sexualization, violence, death, and lack of empathy in a lot of entertainment mediums - some of which were watched by children (but may have been intended for adults). 


I remember seeing a reboot of the Mutant Teenage Ninja Turtles movie and there being a whole lot of tween and younger movie viewers... and it made me a little uncomfortable.  

I love all the incarnations of MTNT  - I've got the graphic novels/comic books which are definitely NOT for children (or tweens).  

As far as I am concerned there are only TWO ninja turtle movies.

If I am being generous three but the third one SUCKED.

[flan327]

Dec 3, 2020 11:49:41 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Dec 3, 2020 7:29:49 GMT -5 flan327 said:

Now "The Wizard of Oz" is actually too dark for children.

You seen The Dark Crystal by Jim Henson?  Now THAT is too dark for kids.   I know from his biography he didn't intend it for kids it was an art film and he wanted to break away from family friendly muppets.   Parents didn't see it that way.

I believe I watched it at daycare which you wouldn't get away with now. The Skeksis scared the ever loving crap out of me.

Yes I have seen the film.

I agree

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'd like to see it as an adult I think I would appreciate it more.  Labyrinth scared me too as a kid but as an adult I really enjoy the film.   


The film was PG by the way when released in 1982.   

[flan327]

In fact, MOST original versions of fairy tales were NEVER intended for children

The Disney version of Cinderella is very different from the original, in which one of the stepsisters slices off part of her own foot in a vain attempt to get the slipper to fit

And Hansel and Gretel?
The Little Match Girl?
Sleeping Beauty?

C'MON...

[flan327]

Even IF a movie is rated PG13, that doesn't mean that it is appropriate for every 13 year old

Kids mature at different rates

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 3, 2020 14:45:00 GMT -5 flan327 said:

Even IF a movie is rated PG13, that doesn't mean that it is appropriate for every 13 year old

Kids mature at different rates

I know I was responding to the idea that it should have been NC-17.   

I just remembered a quote from a book I read attributed to Jack Nicholson "Kiss a boob you are rated R.  Lop a boob off with a sword you are PG-13".   Sounds about right. 


People think Disney's Sleeping Beauty has consent issues they should never read the original.   At least in the Disney version Phillip and Aurora have met.  I also told DH how do you know they didn't have a long conversation while everyone else was waking up about their betrothal because by that point they both knew about it.

[flan327]

Even as an adult, I will not watch any of the "Halloween" franchise or "Nightmare on Elm Street" or that torture P0RN crap...like "Saw."