Oh, well. Guess it's gonna be herd immunity after all

[Deleted]

Because Dr. Birx just said that nobody in the administration is considering it. Let's see if my attempt at linking works this time.

link

[haapai]

Good Lord, Dr. Birx looks twenty years older than she did four months ago.  She also appears to have donned an armor that makes no sense in the dog days of summer. 

[Tiny]

Yeah, I'd read that as Birx confirming the administration's basic plan/response is to take the path to herd immunity.

I'd say that's pretty much been the plan/response since January 2020.

[Opti]

The bad thing about this virus, we don't even know if herd immunity will work. And if it does, it might be a temporary thing. 

[Blonde Granny]

From what I've just read Dr. Birx and Fauci have been tossed out. Some goofy radiologist that has no info or knowledge in virus training etc. is taking over. Dr. Oz I think recommended him to Trump.

[Deleted]

Ooooo! Trump to the rescue. Vaccine distribution sites told to be ready by November 1. What a coincidence.

Would I even consider getting his vaccine that's been rushed beyond belief? No. I'll take my chances with Covid before I'd take a chance on his vaccine.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Sept 2, 2020 18:18:18 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Ooooo! Trump to the rescue. Vaccine distribution sites told to be ready by November 1. What a coincidence.

Would I even consider getting his vaccine that's been rushed beyond belief? No. I'll take my chances with Covid before I'd take a chance on his vaccine.

Kind of my thinking. I am in no hurry to have a vaccine that might be questionable.

[billisonboard]

"I was thinking about voting for Biden but President Trump just announced that because of him there is now a vaccine he says will work so I am going to vote for him instead."

Does such a voter exist? 

[Deleted]

We don't give people dangerous, untested-for-safety vaccines in the US. 

Oh, yeah... 

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2020 19:15:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"I was thinking about voting for Biden but President Trump just announced that because of him there is now a vaccine he says will work so I am going to vote for him instead."

Does such a voter exist? 

I am afraid there does.  And some are my neighbors and DH's relatives.  Feeling really blessed I have no known relatives and super sorry I signed up with Ancestry.

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2020 20:32:18 GMT -5 @donethat said:

Sept 2, 2020 19:15:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"I was thinking about voting for Biden but President Trump just announced that because of him there is now a vaccine he says will work so I am going to vote for him instead."

Does such a voter exist? 

I am afraid there does.  And some are my neighbors and DH's relatives.  Feeling really blessed I have no known relatives and super sorry I signed up with Ancestry.

I have too many relatives who are already in Trump's column. Fortunately they are either in low Electoral College count Idaho which will go Trump by 90% anyway or here in Washington which won't go to him with or without their votes. The thing is, I don't know any undecided voters that a vaccine would move his way.

[TheOtherMe]

Sept 2, 2020 19:15:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"I was thinking about voting for Biden but President Trump just announced that because of him there is now a vaccine he says will work so I am going to vote for him instead."

Does such a voter exist? 

I know I won't be getting a vaccine on November 1.  I want to know a lot more about the vaccine before I take it.  I am not going to be the guinea pig for this.

My family is already going to vote red.  I hope this doesn't change the minds of others.

Last I saw Iowa was considered a toss up.  

I am hoping all the people voting against Joni Ernst will vote for Biden while they are voting blue.

We don't have enough electoral votes to matter unless it's really close.

[thyme4change]

Sept 2, 2020 19:15:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"I was thinking about voting for Biden but President Trump just announced that because of him there is now a vaccine he says will work so I am going to vote for him instead."

Does such a voter exist? 

My MIL probably. Hard core Christian. Wine is a sin, cursing will get you sent to hell, attend church 4 times per week, defends Trump as a bad person being sent to do God's work. Husband has been trying to talk her off Trump for two years. The pandemic was the crack. She thought he was being reckless with her life. But, can she be a single issue voter, and does she believe Biden will fix Covid? It gets super easy if it looks like Trump is bringing a vaccine soon.

[thyme4change]

I asked this on the other thread.

Is there an example of a disease that actually disappeared because of herd immunity? My mother's generation, my grandmother's generation, my generation and my sister's kids all got the chicken pox, but it didn't go away. My kids got the vaccine.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 3, 2020 8:38:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I asked this on the other thread.

Is there an example of a disease that actually disappeared because of herd immunity? My mother's generation, my grandmother's generation, my generation and my sister's kids all got the chicken pox, but it didn't go away. My kids got the vaccine.

No, not natural herd immunity. Smallpox is the only viral disease that has been eradicated, and that was due to vaccination. Polio was close, but we have lost ground. No other viral disease has been eradicated. 

[haapai]

Rinderpest was infectious and viral too.  It affected ungulates. 

[chiver78]

Sept 2, 2020 18:18:18 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Ooooo! Trump to the rescue. Vaccine distribution sites told to be ready by November 1. What a coincidence.

Would I even consider getting his vaccine that's been rushed beyond belief? No. I'll take my chances with Covid before I'd take a chance on his vaccine.

nothing has been approved yet. on no planet is distribution, let alone packaging and labelling, ready to go while drugs are still in clinical trials. is he planning to use the Russian "vaccine" that's been mentioned in the press?

*I'm using quotes bc i have zero faith in whatever that is to actually do anything resembling a vaccine.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 3, 2020 9:12:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 3, 2020 8:38:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I asked this on the other thread.

Is there an example of a disease that actually disappeared because of herd immunity? My mother's generation, my grandmother's generation, my generation and my sister's kids all got the chicken pox, but it didn't go away. My kids got the vaccine.

No, not natural herd immunity. Smallpox is the only viral disease that has been eradicated, and that was due to vaccination. Polio was close, but we have lost ground. No other viral disease has been eradicated. 

Polio will never be eradicated like smallpox because it can be found in water.  As long as there are other reservoirs for the virus to exist in, this can’t happen unless we get rid of those too.

I had a professor who looked at polio in natural standing water.  It’s not uncommon, to my surprise.   

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

A friend of mine posted this twitter thread.  This guy really makes sense.  Too bad that the questionable powers that be don’t understand this.  If a vaccine is released and there is no protection, or a bad side effect, the trust the US has in the FDA and the CDC will be zilch.  Right now, it’s not great.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1301310012401299457.html?fbclid=IwAR2LQh7LIVhihzFsuH_rgB2kSUqoiU1cWsF7CcAHZ8rGkHHonBuRELp1NNk

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 3, 2020 11:36:11 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Sept 3, 2020 9:12:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No, not natural herd immunity. Smallpox is the only viral disease that has been eradicated, and that was due to vaccination. Polio was close, but we have lost ground. No other viral disease has been eradicated. 

Polio will never be eradicated like smallpox because it can be found in water.  As long as there are other reservoirs for the virus to exist in, this can’t happen unless we get rid of those too.

I had a professor who looked at polio in natural standing water.  It’s not uncommon, to my surprise.   

It would have been interesting to see what happened. We were down to under 100 naturally occurring cases worldwide for a few years, but it has headed back up. After a few generations of no naturally occurring cases, we could possibly have stopped using the live vaccine. Then we would really be able to test that theory. Unfortunately, not going to happen. Now, if there is an animal reservoir, like this virus, eradication is impossible, as you know

[jerseygirl]

In NJ about 30 years ago a river and ocean near river were tested and polio found- someone had chimps and lived near river
Heard of this in a micro class
Don’t remember but hoping Chimps were removed

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 3, 2020 11:48:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 3, 2020 11:36:11 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Polio will never be eradicated like smallpox because it can be found in water.  As long as there are other reservoirs for the virus to exist in, this can’t happen unless we get rid of those too.

I had a professor who looked at polio in natural standing water.  It’s not uncommon, to my surprise.   

It would have been interesting to see what happened. We were down to under 100 naturally occurring cases worldwide for a few years, but it has headed back up. After a few generations of no naturally occurring cases, we could possibly have stopped using the live vaccine. Then we would really be able to test that theory. Unfortunately, not going to happen. Now, if there is an animal reservoir, like this virus, eradication is impossible, as you know

I suspect that this was due more to the effectiveness of both the vaccine and the outreach program to vaccinate.  

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 3, 2020 12:07:21 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Sept 3, 2020 11:48:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

It would have been interesting to see what happened. We were down to under 100 naturally occurring cases worldwide for a few years, but it has headed back up. After a few generations of no naturally occurring cases, we could possibly have stopped using the live vaccine. Then we would really be able to test that theory. Unfortunately, not going to happen. Now, if there is an animal reservoir, like this virus, eradication is impossible, as you know

I suspect that this was due more to the effectiveness of both the vaccine and the outreach program to vaccinate.  

Yes, you are correct. But watching a natural experiment going forward, if we were able to eradicate human cases, would have been interesting to see. Can we eradicate a disease that has a reservoir in water if we shut off all human infections? Would have been fun to see it play out. Unfortunately, I won't live long enough to see what happens

[TheOtherMe]

Slavitt is one of my must read daily accounts on Twitter.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2020 11:40:53 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

A friend of mine posted this twitter thread.  This guy really makes sense.  Too bad that the questionable powers that be don’t understand this.  If a vaccine is released and there is no protection, or a bad side effect, the trust the US has in the FDA and the CDC will be zilch.  Right now, it’s not great.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1301310012401299457.html?fbclid=IwAR2LQh7LIVhihzFsuH_rgB2kSUqoiU1cWsF7CcAHZ8rGkHHonBuRELp1NNk

This was my previous point about the topic. It's not that I dislike vaccines, am anti-vax or whatever, it's simply that we keep saying "that can't happen in America because of X, Y, or Z regulation/law", and then the administration fires all the people who have any ethics and makes those remaining bend to its will. 

Americans right now are the frogs boiling in the pot as fascism/a dictator is taking over. Some see the bubbles starting to rise and some don't. The vaccine issue is just one of many bubbles. But, it has the potential, if done wrong, to greatly adversely affect public health for decades.

[thyme4change]

Sept 3, 2020 11:40:53 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

A friend of mine posted this twitter thread.  This guy really makes sense.  Too bad that the questionable powers that be don’t understand this.  If a vaccine is released and there is no protection, or a bad side effect, the trust the US has in the FDA and the CDC will be zilch.  Right now, it’s not great.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1301310012401299457.html?fbclid=IwAR2LQh7LIVhihzFsuH_rgB2kSUqoiU1cWsF7CcAHZ8rGkHHonBuRELp1NNk

Why would Trump care if the public loses faith in institutions? He thrives there. We wouldn't know if it is ineffective or harmful until after election day, so a Nov 1 release is perfect.

I actually suspect he will make an announcement that he is signing something forcing the release of the vaccine. He will stand up for us against the big meanies who want us sick. Meanwhile, the FDA or pharmaceutical companies or whatever will quietly hold it up - manufacturing problems, or something. Maybe blame someone else for not agreeing who gets the vaccine, etc. Regardless of who wins, they can bring it out when it is ready. Trump can take credit.

[gs11rmb]

Sept 3, 2020 11:36:11 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Sept 3, 2020 9:12:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No, not natural herd immunity. Smallpox is the only viral disease that has been eradicated, and that was due to vaccination. Polio was close, but we have lost ground. No other viral disease has been eradicated. 

Polio will never be eradicated like smallpox because it can be found in water.  As long as there are other reservoirs for the virus to exist in, this can’t happen unless we get rid of those too.

I had a professor who looked at polio in natural standing water.  It’s not uncommon, to my surprise.   

I may have mentioned this before but I'm friendly with a virologist who once told me that global warming is leading to the melting of the permafrost and exposing long-dead animals.  If any of those animals died from smallpox and then froze it becomes possible for the smallpox to reactivate (that may not have been the actual word) and infect people who come in contact.  I think I just stared at him slackjawed...

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 3, 2020 15:26:04 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Sept 3, 2020 11:36:11 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Polio will never be eradicated like smallpox because it can be found in water.  As long as there are other reservoirs for the virus to exist in, this can’t happen unless we get rid of those too.

I had a professor who looked at polio in natural standing water.  It’s not uncommon, to my surprise.   

I may have mentioned this before but I'm friendly with a virologist who once told me that global warming is leading to the melting of the permafrost and exposing long-dead animals.  If any of those animals died from smallpox and then froze it becomes possible for the smallpox to reactivate (that may not have been the actual word) and infect people who come in contact.  I think I just stared at him slackjawed...

Only humans can be a reservoir to smallpox.  So you won’t find smallpox is any other animal.  

[gs11rmb]

Sept 3, 2020 15:28:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Sept 3, 2020 15:26:04 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I may have mentioned this before but I'm friendly with a virologist who once told me that global warming is leading to the melting of the permafrost and exposing long-dead animals.  If any of those animals died from smallpox and then froze it becomes possible for the smallpox to reactivate (that may not have been the actual word) and infect people who come in contact.  I think I just stared at him slackjawed...

Only humans can be a reservoir to smallpox.  So you won’t find smallpox is any other animal.  

That's definitely not what I remember him saying!  Is there a similar disease in animals that manifests as smallpox in humans? 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 3, 2020 15:31:40 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Sept 3, 2020 15:28:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Only humans can be a reservoir to smallpox.  So you won’t find smallpox is any other animal.  

That's definitely not what I remember him saying!  Is there a similar disease in animals that manifests as smallpox in humans? 

Cowpox, but it is extremely limited and not near as virulent in humans.  There is a monkey pox too, but suspect you’re not going to find monkeys in the permafrost.

This is the reason why smallpox could be eradicated throughout the world.  Since humans are the only reservoirs, once you got it out of humans, it could not go elsewhere to hang out and infect a naive immune system when encountered.