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Post by tea4me on Apr 12, 2011 9:01:03 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/education/12college.html?_r=1I hope this link works. It's not my problem these people are graduating with a lot of student loan debt. They can't buy houses or purchase other items. Maybe they should have thought about that before signing the dotted line. Yes, I am a cold hearted woman. ;D
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Post by jospaced on Apr 12, 2011 9:20:40 GMT -5
I'm with you on that one. They get the education, they pay for it. Nice avatar!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Apr 12, 2011 9:20:50 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just out of touch with reality, but I got a PhD without getting any student loans. And I put myself through college, no help from mommy or daddy.
I worked while I was in undergrad, tutoring, referring soccer games, etc to make fun money. I got scholarships to pay for tuition. I also went to a cheap state school (I think tuition for the year was $1600) rather than private.
In grad school I had a fellowship that granted a tuition waiver and I worked weekends at Joann Fabrics and again referreed various intramural sports to make fun money.
Now I work at a the most expensive private medical school in the country, and I am FLABBERGASTED at the cost of tuition. I think it's $50k a YEAR. It absolutely blows my mind. I don't think the education here is better than any other university, but it's got "the name" that people appreciate. I think if you're going into medicine, fine, come here, but if not... why the hell would you pay for the name when it's not going the help you?
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Post by jospaced on Apr 12, 2011 9:22:16 GMT -5
Although I graduated many moons ago, I paid my own way without student loans. At one point I worked for a company that provided partial reimbursement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 9:24:43 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just out of touch with reality, but I got a PhD without getting any student loans. And I put myself through college, no help from mommy or daddy. I worked while I was in undergrad, tutoring, referring soccer games, etc to make fun money. I got scholarships to pay for tuition. I also went to a cheap state school (I think tuition for the year was $1600) rather than private. In grad school I had a fellowship that granted a tuition waiver and I worked weekends at Joann Fabrics and again referreed various intramural sports to make fun money. Now I work at a the most expensive private medical school in the country, and I am FLABBERGASTED at the cost of tuition. I think it's $50k a YEAR. It absolutely blows my mind. I don't think the education here is better than any other university, but it's got "the name" that people appreciate. I think if you're going into medicine, fine, come here, but if not... why the hell would you pay for the name when it's not going the help you? The bolded is why young people cannot get through school without SLs. It used to be that state schools were much cheaper, there were no SLs, just grant/scholarships, if your parents did not help you, you could file independent, not so now. I think we should do something about this, because it will lower the lifestyle of the next generation for 10-30 years and maybe even more.
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philly1
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Post by philly1 on Apr 12, 2011 9:38:03 GMT -5
My son will be one of them. He will have at least 60k in student loans when he graduates in 2 years. I co-signed for the first 10k. It was a private loan at 9% which I will never do again. I'm paying $80/mo just on the interest. I refused to sign for anymore so his mom is signing for the other 50k. He has basically contributed nothing towards his education and didn't work the past 2 Summers. He could have spent the first 2 years close to home and saved anywhere from 20k-30k but had to go where his friends were going. The plus side is he's getting really good grades. His mom and I came from 2 different worlds growing up. She had 6 years of education paid for by her parents while I had to join the Army and a combat MOS to get college money. I'll probably pay off that 10k for him as a graduation gift.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Apr 12, 2011 9:38:58 GMT -5
"The bolded is why young people cannot get through school without SLs."
They CAN. I work for a PRIVATE $$$$ university. There is no point in going here to get a degree in English, physics, or accounting. Kids need to make smart choices, especially if they are going on for advanced degrees. There are only 2 reasons to come to this university. One is to get an MBA, the other is to get a MD.
State schools are MUCH more reasonable tuition wise and people CAN still make it through with scholarships, hard work, and good choices.
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Post by jospaced on Apr 12, 2011 9:47:04 GMT -5
"The bolded is why young people cannot get through school without SLs." They CAN. I work for a PRIVATE $$$$ university. There is no point in going here to get a degree in English, physics, or accounting. Kids need to make smart choices, especially if they are going on for advanced degrees. There are only 2 reasons to come to this university. One is to get an MBA, the other is to get a MD. State schools are MUCH more reasonable tuition wise and people CAN still make it through with scholarships, hard work, and good choices.
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Post by mtntigger on Apr 12, 2011 9:50:24 GMT -5
I used to be on this band wagon too - I paid my way through a state university too by saving since I was 13, getting scholarships, working two or three jobs all the way through high schools, summers and college. However, that was when I was paying $156/quarter for school. Now, the same university is charging $2000/quarter plus there are books, housing, food, activities, etc. Multiply that by three or four times a year and then four or five years (for when it is hard to get into the liberal arts classes) and you are looking at least 30K for an education. That is a heck of a lot of money. I am glad I am not a parent today. It would be tough to see a kid struggle with these kinds of debts and then they entering into an environment where there aren't that many jobs.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Apr 12, 2011 9:50:59 GMT -5
Some perspective from a parent with 2, soon to be 3, in college. I went to college early 80s. First there was no way to declare independent then unless you were older (maybe 24) or got married (always an interesting way to get around things). Also nw, if you had kids, so if any of my kids was irresponsible and had a child, they would get all kinds of assistance, more grants, etc. Just a way the government encourages bad behavior.
College prices now have gone up way more than the price of inflation since I was in college. It's not just tuition, it is everything. Most schools have super new fancy dorms that you have to live in, you are required to buy meal plan (over $100 a week), etc.
But even in the article, it points out to one of the big problems being the "for profit" colleges. I'm not saying they are all bad, but they basically get you to sign up, they have pretty low admission standards, the students pay very little out of pocket at first. The school gets you Pell grant money if you qualify, and many do since they are "independent" and not traditional college students. You take out loans. You may or may not be able to pass the classes. Your degree may or may not help you get a better job. But in the end the college got your money and now you owe large student loans.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 10:01:48 GMT -5
I actually think this is everyone's problem. New home sales fell to one of the slowest paces on record last month in the last 50 years. If 20 and 30 year olds can't afford to buy homes a lot of boomers and older people are going to be stuck with homes they can't sell. For a lot of older people most of their net worth is in their equity. People saddled with huge student debt aren't participating in the economy as much as they could by purchasing goods.
A lot of parents can't stand to see their kids start out saddled with such debt so they are endangering their own retirement by helping their kids.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Apr 12, 2011 10:08:58 GMT -5
My DD will be going to college next year. Her first choice school is an out of state school, but is state run not private. The annual estimated costs are $27,000. Her second choice school is one of our local state school. The annual estimated costs are $22,000. We are awaiting the package from 1st choice school. They are having some type of hang up this year. From first choice school she was offered $1,500 a year for 4 years upon admission. From state school she has been offered $2,000 a year for 4 years plus $1,000 a year for the first two years from her major of choice dept. She also received a state grant of $674.00.
She has applied for over 20 scholarships so far she has received $300.00 from a local service organization and the $1,000 a year for 2 years from the state college. Her GPA is 3.83 out of a 4.0 scale. What will help with the college expenses has been her ability to take courses from the local community college while in high school. She will graduate high school with 58-60 credits from the local community college. The plan is for her to finish college in 3 years.
She did work the last 2 summers and just started another job yesterday. There are so many people returning to college that the competition for the scholarships is very high. We are hoping that she will pick up another scholarship or two but are not planning on it.
The online loan counseling that she was required to complete was a real eye opener for her. When she was done she was crying when she realized how much it actually cost to take out these loans for school.
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simser
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Post by simser on Apr 12, 2011 10:34:28 GMT -5
I went to a prestigious in-state college from 2001-2005. When I started the price for everything- in state per year- was $10,080. The price quoted in the alumni magazine for the year 2010-2011 was $22000 (in state, per year). That's over twice the price in 9 years!! I don't think anyone can compare what they did to get through school to now unless you are a very recent graduate.
I was lucky enough to not have loans because my parents were able to cash flow college. My PhD tuition is waived, and I get a livable stipend. So I won't have any student loans. But the only thing that I did right was work to pay for everything but tuition/fees/room/board and now live off my stipend. I couldn't have done much more to help other than that.
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Post by pig on Apr 12, 2011 11:04:50 GMT -5
BBQ you are a generation out of date. College is one of the few things outpacing medical care increases.
"Sandy Baum is co-author of the report "Trends in College Pricing." She says tuition and fees at four-year public colleges is now on average $7,600. When you add room and board, the cost jumps to $16,000. "
Quite a bit different than what you paid years ago.
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Post by mtntigger on Apr 12, 2011 11:10:46 GMT -5
Doc - Is the $7600 or $16000 per semester? Per year? For a four-year degree, that sounds really cheap.
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Post by pig on Apr 12, 2011 11:14:10 GMT -5
That's per year. So compared to BBQ's figure of 1600 when they and I went to college. Totally different world out there now. Tuition here is over 50k a year.
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strider
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Post by strider on Apr 12, 2011 11:16:48 GMT -5
Some of you seem to be out of date with reality at this point in time. My alma mater (I graduated last year) is more than DOUBLE what the rate was when I first started college. I worked 3 jobs and graduated early. I also had scholarships (not a full ride).
I still had $10k in student loan debt. That figure is low and I can afford it but I challenge anyone to go to school now without some debt. It is near impossible now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 11:18:55 GMT -5
The average cost of attendance (fees, tuition, books, room and board) at the in state university I went to was 17k in 2001. This year it has almost doubled to 32k. Even in state schools aren't providing great bargains. The state support have been cut so much that community and state colleges are turning away students and you can't get into the classes you need to graduate.
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Post by mtntigger on Apr 12, 2011 11:19:10 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what it sounded like, I just wanted to confirm.
I looked at the tuition to another state-run university and it now charges the student for taking extra classes. Full-time is considered 12-16 credit hours, but if a student wanted to be proactive and take 18 credit hours (which I routinely did), the student has to pay $400/credit hour MORE. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Epiphany
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Post by Epiphany on Apr 12, 2011 11:21:20 GMT -5
Yeah the whole "I went to college 20 years ago without student loans by working and paying for it myself" mentality drives me nuts. It is not possible to do that anymore. You may make min. wage or slightly above working two jobs and still come nowhere close to paying for one year of in-state tuition, room and board cost. College costs have skyrocketed whereas wages have not. As others have pointed out, even the school I attended in 2001 has doubled in price, wages haven't.
Of course the super expensive all the bells and whistles colleges for English degrees are there to point fingers at but the reality is college is insanely priced and only the super rich (parents pay outright) or super poor (huge grants) get out of there student loan free.
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Post by tea4me on Apr 12, 2011 11:21:49 GMT -5
I graduated from a private college in 2004 (BSBA) with no debt. I did not have any scholarships either. I worked full-time and my employer reimbursed me for some of the expense.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Apr 12, 2011 11:32:29 GMT -5
High student loan debt is being driven by the rapidly increasing cost of a college education. Why are college costs increasing so rapidly? One reason might be found in a recent edition of the alumni magazine from the state college I attended. There was an article about the donation of a semi trailer which was converted into a mobile science laboratory to be used as part of the college recruiting program at area high schools. This mobile science lab was one of four that were planned at a cost of $750,000 each. Let's see, four trailers at $750K is $3,000,000. That's $3,000,000 more that the taxpayers and students would pay to operate the college, even before you consider on-going operating expenses for the mobile laboratories. I guess if you believe there is an unlimited supply of money, you can find some inventive ways to spend it. I don't think that this "newsworthy" plan is anywhere close to the low cost approach to recruiting students.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 11:35:08 GMT -5
Don't forget the colleges that are supporting their sports programs and $2 million a year coaches through tuition.
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Epiphany
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Post by Epiphany on Apr 12, 2011 11:36:45 GMT -5
I worked full-time and my employer reimbursed me for some of the expense. This is why I'd like to see more trade programs developed. You work while going to school learning the trade. So often we shove kids through 4+ years of college and they get out without the soft skills required in the real world and no real idea of what they want to do. ETA: unfortunately trade programs are looked at in our society to be lower grade or lower education options. Expensive university to go find yourself and have all kinds of crazy amenities shouldn't be the pedestal
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 12, 2011 11:37:32 GMT -5
I think articles like this are badly written. They make it sound like a good thing and throw juuuust enough true information in there to sound authoritative.
They make no mention of alternative ways to pay for college, such as stripping part time jobs or living at home to cut down on the burden.
Going to college is usually a good thing but I just can't give the nod to a whole bunch of people paying off five to six figure debts at a time when they should be setting themselves up for future success. A macroeconomic factor? God help us.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 12, 2011 11:40:34 GMT -5
They CAN. I work for a PRIVATE $$$$ university. There is no point in going here to get a degree in English, physics, or accounting. Kids need to make smart choices, especially if they are going on for advanced degrees. There are only 2 reasons to come to this university. One is to get an MBA, the other is to get a MD.
All I can say is a resounding QFT.
Do you REALLY want to be paying off SIX FIGURES of debt that you racked up before you were old enough to order alcohol? I have an acquaintance who went to one of the aforementioned $$$$$ private universities. Six figures of debt. For a teaching degree. And she lives in a LCOLA. That will be fun for her.
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strider
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Post by strider on Apr 12, 2011 11:40:45 GMT -5
I wish I could have lived at home. It was no option though. The program I wanted to be in (IT networking) wasn't offered at the state Uni. So I had to move. It costed me more money but I would have quit college (with less debt but no degree).
I think the first priority is to find the degree you want. Then figure out how to afford it.
I agree that Underwater Basketweaving for an out of state private college isn't going to cut the mustard but it really is a disservice to the students that know what they want to do.
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Post by pig on Apr 12, 2011 11:43:14 GMT -5
Don't forget the colleges that are supporting their sports programs and $2 million a year coaches through tuition.
I'm not sure how it is in public shcools but at most private colleges tuition wouldn't come close to paying fac/staff salary. Over 60% of the operating budget comes from endowments.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 12, 2011 11:44:24 GMT -5
I'll probably pay off that 10k for him as a graduation gift.
That's very generous of you! 9%, ouch. I thought my 6.8% was bad.
On parental help - I think they need to revisit the FAFSA eligibility. When I returned to school at age 22, I was still considered an effing minor and my parent's considerable income still counted against me, even though I hadn't lived at home in four years and hadn't taken a penny of support from them in more than two. I wasn't even on their health insurance anymore.
It was incredibly frustrating. There has to be a way to NOT penalize young independent adults for their parents' income if it's not a factor while safeguarding against parents saying they won't help and slipping Junior some money on the sly.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 12, 2011 11:47:23 GMT -5
I am glad I am not a parent today. It would be tough to see a kid struggle with these kinds of debts and then they entering into an environment where there aren't that many jobs.
That's why it's especially important to make smart choices. More than ever, we should be opening up to the idea of alternative paths for 18 year olds. It's true that some employers won't give you the time of day without a degree, but we should be wary of automatically writing off people who decide against college, especially if they used that time to gain work experience and savings.
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