What does reopening look like in YOUR state?

[raeoflyte]

Jul 18, 2020 23:11:30 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 18, 2020 21:42:37 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

What’s the excuse for DeSantis and Kemp. They should know better, and they are in a position of responsibility

But, I don't know that they realize they should know better.

DeSantis isn't phased by the number of actual infections and he doesn't care about those that have lingering effects. He justifies because the fatality rate is low..about 1.5% from here.

It makes a good bit of sense. From day 1, we've been told that SIP was not to stop the virus.  We've been told since forever that SIP was only to buy time and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. De Santis as of a few days ago, still didn't think hospitals in his state were overwhelmed.

So, if we're not worried about stopping it, and we're all going to get it eventually..why should infection rates be worrisome, when likely folks won't die from it?

That's what they said on day one, but that messaging has pretty clearly changed. If an employee cannot accept that policies and procedures change based on current environment and information I recommend they be fired. I expect the same from my elected officials.

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 18, 2020 23:11:30 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 18, 2020 21:42:37 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

What’s the excuse for DeSantis and Kemp. They should know better, and they are in a position of responsibility

But, I don't know that they realize they should know better.

DeSantis isn't phased by the number of actual infections and he doesn't care about those that have lingering effects. He justifies because the fatality rate is low..about 1.5% from here.

It makes a good bit of sense. From day 1, we've been told that SIP was not to stop the virus.  We've been told since forever that SIP was only to buy time and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. De Santis as of a few days ago, still didn't think hospitals in his state were overwhelmed.

So, if we're not worried about stopping it, and we're all going to get it eventually..why should infection rates be worrisome, when likely folks won't die from it?

2 points

SIP was always meant to accomplish 3 things, keep hospitals from being overwhelmed, but time to find effective treatments, and learn how to live with it. If you were on a ventilator in March, you chance of dying was 60%, in May 40%. Remarkable progress in 3 months. And that is just a start. If you let the pandemic rage, we run out of these new treatments, and ppe. If we would take this seriously, we can determine where the line of opening to have a better existence while slowing the spread.

If 1.5% of Floridians die, that is about 450k. Nationally, it is 5 million. In 1918, about 700k out a population of 100 million died. If these numbers are right 7x as many died, with a population only 3.5x bigger. So, despite all our medical advances, we will have done worse. Meaning, the virus is deadlier, we are stupider, or both. The first job of our elected officials is to protect their population. We are doing a piss poor job

[jerseygirl]

Outdoor schools? Article about this in 1900s when tuberculosis and polio were the dangers

Little granddaughter went to a nursery school that was almost all outdoors even in rain and snow - except for truly terrible downpours. Children had to dress appropriately . Lots of this in Germany - Waldkita Forest kindergartens or Wald Schools
fewer kids had sick days compared to kids in regular preschool

www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-schools-reopening-outdoors.html#click=https://t.co/jHr2M5yNWd

[giramomma]

I'm not defending the guy beyond any means. But, I can see how he might come to the conclusion that's he's reaching. And how he can be OK with it.

And, when my girls come home from school and say "Susie complained that wearing  masks all day long is forcing us to do something that we shouldn't be forced to do." or "Sam said that we don't need to worry about the 'rona because not that many people die from it." or "There's no PPE shortage. Look our teachers have masks. Our teachers have face shields. We all have masks. "

Well, I need to have a full discussion with them. A response of "well, your classmates' parents are stupid." isn't going to bode well. The kids are going to be around each other. And the girls can't exactly not interact with classmates during school (there's no unfriending option like in facebook, KWIM?)

[giramomma]

Jul 19, 2020 7:55:05 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Outdoor schools? Article about this in 1900s when tuberculosis and polio were the dangers

Little granddaughter went to a nursery school that was almost all outdoors even in rain and snow - except for truly terrible downpours. Children had to dress appropriately . Lots of this in Germany - Waldkita Forest kindergartens or Wald Schools
fewer kids had sick days compared to kids in regular preschool

www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-schools-reopening-outdoors.html#click=https://t.co/jHr2M5yNWd

We live in four seasons, with polar vortexes. School outside when frostbite within a half hour isn't probably a good choice.

But, weather permitting, that's one of the tactics our k-8 school is going to use so that kids get out of the classroom.

[jerseygirl]

Jul 19, 2020 8:04:36 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 19, 2020 7:55:05 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Outdoor schools? Article about this in 1900s when tuberculosis and polio were the dangers

Little granddaughter went to a nursery school that was almost all outdoors even in rain and snow - except for truly terrible downpours. Children had to dress appropriately . Lots of this in Germany - Waldkita Forest kindergartens or Wald Schools
fewer kids had sick days compared to kids in regular preschool

www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-schools-reopening-outdoors.html#click=https://t.co/jHr2M5yNWd

We live in four seasons, with polar vortexes. School outside when frostbite within a half hour isn't probably a good choice.

But, weather permitting, that's one of the tactics our k-8 school is going to use so that kids get out of the classroom.

Article is from NYTimes about outdoor schools in NY in early 1900s
Classes on school roofs parks even warves on the rivers.

[bobosensei]

Jul 18, 2020 20:25:52 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

GA set a record for new cases in 24 hours--4689. And the governor is suing the mayor of Atlanta. Our tax dollars at work.

I just saw Mayor Bottoms posting the part of the lawsuit where Kemp wants the emergency injunction keeping her from issuing press releases.  I mean read the room Kemp.  Now is not the time to try to be silencing a black woman in Atlanta.

[TheOtherMe]

Kemp is suing Bottoms personally.  I'm sure that will go over well.

[bobosensei]

Jul 19, 2020 7:55:05 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Outdoor schools? Article about this in 1900s when tuberculosis and polio were the dangers

Little granddaughter went to a nursery school that was almost all outdoors even in rain and snow - except for truly terrible downpours. Children had to dress appropriately . Lots of this in Germany - Waldkita Forest kindergartens or Wald Schools
fewer kids had sick days compared to kids in regular preschool

www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-schools-reopening-outdoors.html#click=https://t.co/jHr2M5yNWd

They do have a saying in Germany:  "There is no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing."  I feel like people in the northern US understand this a little better than those of us in the south.

[oped]

Jul 19, 2020 15:34:53 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

Jul 18, 2020 20:25:52 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

GA set a record for new cases in 24 hours--4689. And the governor is suing the mayor of Atlanta. Our tax dollars at work.

I just saw Mayor Bottoms posting the part of the lawsuit where Kemp wants the emergency injunction keeping her from issuing press releases.  I mean read the room Kemp.  Now is not the time to try to be silencing a black woman in Atlanta.

She’s apparently made the short list... maybe that is part of it? 

[thyme4change]

Apparently, they are doing a vaccine trial in my state. I first wondered if I should do my bit to make the world better, but then i remembered that I am a giant whimp. And, I don't leave my house much. I'm hoping they are asking people who have a lot of public contact.

[mamasita99]

I teach special education and I feel for some of these parents. Not only do they have the same concerns as the rest of the parents, but they have to be concerned about the special needs of their kids being addressed safely. Physical needs, educational needs where you may not learn without direct interaction, close to staff for supervision. I would love outdoor instruction but I usually have one or two who students elope. Addressing special needs is taking this in a whole new level.

[Deleted]

Gov. Mike Parson:

“These kids have got to get back to school.... And if they do get COVID-19, which they will — and they will when they go to school — they’re not going to the hospitals.... They’re going to go home and they’re going to get over it.” buff.ly/2WBb8Ye

He seems to have skipped the part where they infect their teachers, school workers, and family at home. What a tool.

[thyme4change]

Jul 19, 2020 8:29:39 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Jul 19, 2020 8:04:36 GMT -5 giramomma said:

We live in four seasons, with polar vortexes. School outside when frostbite within a half hour isn't probably a good choice.

But, weather permitting, that's one of the tactics our k-8 school is going to use so that kids get out of the classroom.

Article is from NYTimes about outdoor schools in NY in early 1900s
Classes on school roofs parks even warves on the rivers.

I hope they do outdoor classrooms for my kids - starting in October.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

After multiple reminders/requests from multiple employees, I escorted a customer out of our building because she refused to wear a mask. She told me that we “are ridiculous”, that the “pandemic is ridiculous”, etc. I made certain that other customers heard me tell her in a pleasant but firm manner that “we require masks for the safety of ALL customers and our employees”. Signs stating the mask requirement are posted in very visible areas all over the property.

She then hopped in her brand new Mercedes sedan and drove out the one-way entrance. Go ahead, post a negative Yelp review. I dare you. 🙄🤬

[seriousthistime]

Exactly the sort I would expect not to wear a mask, GRG. 

[lynnerself]

Jul 18, 2020 23:15:19 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

A scientist friend of mine sent me this.  It seems particularly relevant here...

Long, but important to read, from Dr. Fauci.

“Chickenpox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect. We know this because it's been around for years, and has been studied medically for years.

Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks. We know this because it's been around for years, and been studied medically for years.

HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.

Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.
So far the symptoms may include:
Fever
Fatigue
Coughing
Pneumonia
Chills/Trembling
Acute respiratory distress
Lung damage (potentially permanent)
Loss of taste (a neurological symptom)
Sore throat
Headaches
Difficulty breathing
Mental confusion
Diarrhea
Nausea or vomiting
Loss of appetite
Strokes have also been reported in some people who have COVID-19 (even in the relatively young)
Swollen eyes
Blood clots
Seizures
Liver damage
Kidney damage
Rash
COVID toes (weird, right?)

People testing positive for COVID-19 have been documented to be sick even after 60 days. Many people are sick for weeks, get better, and then experience a rapid and sudden flare up and get sick all over again. A man in Seattle was hospitalized for 62 days, and while well enough to be released, still has a long road of recovery ahead of him. Not to mention a $1.1 million medical bill.

Then there is MIS-C. Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children is a condition where different body parts can become inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs. Children with MIS-C may have a fever and various symptoms, including abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, neck pain, rash, bloodshot eyes, or feeling extra tired. While rare, it has caused deaths.

This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.

For those in our society who suggest that people being cautious are cowards, for people who refuse to take even the simplest of precautions to protect themselves and those around them, I want to ask, without hyperbole and in all sincerity:
How dare you?

How dare you risk the lives of others so cavalierly. How dare you decide for others that they should welcome exposure as "getting it over with", when literally no one knows who will be the lucky "mild symptoms" case, and who may fall ill and die. Because while we know that some people are more susceptible to suffering a more serious case, we also know that 20 and 30-year-olds have died, marathon runners and fitness nuts have died, children and infants have died.

How dare you behave as though you know more than medical experts, when those same experts acknowledge that there is so much we don't yet know, but with what we DO know, are smart enough to be scared of how easily this is spread, and recommend baseline precautions such as:
Frequent hand-washing
Physical distancing
Reduced social/public contact or interaction
Mask wearing
Covering your cough or sneeze
Avoiding touching your face
Sanitizing frequently touched surfaces

The more things we can all do to mitigate our risk of exposure, the better off we all are, in my opinion. Not only does it flatten the curve and allow health care providers to maintain levels of service that aren't immediately and catastrophically overwhelmed; it also reduces unnecessary suffering and deaths, and buys time for the scientific community to study the virus in order to come to a more full understanding of the breadth of its impacts in both the short and long term.

I reject the notion that it's "just a virus" and we'll all get it eventually. What a careless, lazy, heartless stance.”

Copy and paste to share.

Sorry to post, but Dr. Fauci did not write this. It was widely circulated on FB and some one attributed it to him.

The sentiment is great and the facts are correct, but it's not his.

www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-chickenpox-covid-19/

"We found the contents of the viral post to be largely true. For instance, chickenpox is an infection caused by the varicella-zoster virus, just like the COVID-19 disease is caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus. However, Fauci was not the source of, or at all connected to, the viral message. Rather, we determined Facebook user Amy Wright, of Asheville, North Carolina, was the post’s original author."

[Deleted]

Well, DS and I are officially entering hunker-down mode. We've only had 3 cases here since this began. Yesterday we added another and today two more.

Public health had said the 4th of July parties and public events may end up in an outbreak if people weren't careful and we'd know in 2 weeks. This is two weeks and here we are.

Since everyone here shops in the same places, etc... I think until we know how many people actually have it, it's probably best to avoid enclosed spaces.

[Deleted]

Location             Total Cases       Deaths     Recoveries
Houston (city)     36,985             329          6,345


Available data today for my city

[lurkyloo]

Our county just changed course and announced schools would be virtual only for the first semester.  I’m glad to hear it.  I think most of the people wanting them to open were basing that on case counts from three weeks ago; they’ve gone up quite a bit since then.  Our county is doing a little better than the state average but it’s still here.

[movingforward]

I don't have kids so no dog in this fight but have some random thoughts if kids don't go back to school:

*What do essential workers do with their kids? I know we currently have some summer camps open for essential workers but what about when school starts. Is someone going to help essential workers teach their kids?

*What about the highly unmotivated kids. I know one of my employees said she had to stay on top of her 15 year old every minute of the day this spring because he wouldn't do crap online. She has lots of issues with him in school already. She is afraid several more months of online learning is going to put him way behind. My brother was lazy as they come. I can't even imagine he would have been able to do much virtual learning.

*I would totally suck at trying to home school kids. If I had kids I am afraid they would learn next to nothing. And how are people working from home handling both working and teaching their kids.

*How terrible is this going to be for the low income kids. It's really easy for people making an upper middle income to hire tutors, etc. to keep their kids on track but not so much for low income people.

Anyway, like I said, I don't have kids and certainly understand the reasons for them not going back. I just feel for everyone right now...the teachers, the parents and the kids. Seems like there are just no good solutions.

[lurkyloo]

They are excellent questions.  There’s also the question of what about all the cases of child abuse that don’t get caught by observant teachers 
On the flip side, lower income kids are also more likely to live in multigenerational households where they are going to bring the virus home from school and infect vulnerable grandparents etc.  So it’s going to magnify difficulties for lower income workers one way or the other.

There are daycares open, including private schools.  I expect there will be families grouping together for solutions.  I may need to cut hours back to part time myself, since my kid is one of those who basically needs someone sitting on him and periodically pointing things out to get much out of a class.

I do think the situation is temporary and that allowances will have to be made across the board for lost learning.  I’d rather see that than additional lives lost...but there is no good answer for a lot of it.

I wonder if they could follow the British model of opening schools only for at risk children or children of essential workers?

[lurkyloo]

On a brighter note:  Too lazy to find the link on my tablet, but the LA times had a piece referencing various studies that suggest a mask could mean the difference between severe illness and mild illness, via decreasing inoculation.  I might be more motivated to find the link if it had actual references rather than just an interview with someone talking about the studies.

Also, quite the turn around from the toddler in chief.  I am torn between “he’s only doing this because his poll numbers suck so much” and “who cares, it means some lives saved.” 

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 21, 2020 19:49:58 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

On a brighter note:  Too lazy to find the link on my tablet, but the LA times had a piece referencing various studies that suggest a mask could mean the difference between severe illness and mild illness, via decreasing inoculation.  I might be more motivated to find the link if it had actual references rather than just an interview with someone talking about the studies.

Also, quite the turn around from the toddler in chief.  I am torn between “he’s only doing this because his poll numbers suck so much” and “who cares, it means some lives saved.” 

He’s doing it because his poll number suck, and somebody somehow got through to him, however momentarily. He isn’t disciplined enough to keep it up

[lurkyloo]

Jul 21, 2020 19:52:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jul 21, 2020 19:49:58 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

On a brighter note:  Too lazy to find the link on my tablet, but the LA times had a piece referencing various studies that suggest a mask could mean the difference between severe illness and mild illness, via decreasing inoculation.  I might be more motivated to find the link if it had actual references rather than just an interview with someone talking about the studies.

Also, quite the turn around from the toddler in chief.  I am torn between “he’s only doing this because his poll numbers suck so much” and “who cares, it means some lives saved.” 

He’s doing it because his poll number suck, and somebody somehow got through to him, however momentarily. He isn’t disciplined enough to keep it up

Yes, but still.  Lives saved.  Even if they are mostly Republican lives 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 21, 2020 19:52:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jul 21, 2020 19:49:58 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

On a brighter note:  Too lazy to find the link on my tablet, but the LA times had a piece referencing various studies that suggest a mask could mean the difference between severe illness and mild illness, via decreasing inoculation.  I might be more motivated to find the link if it had actual references rather than just an interview with someone talking about the studies.

Also, quite the turn around from the toddler in chief.  I am torn between “he’s only doing this because his poll numbers suck so much” and “who cares, it means some lives saved.” 

He’s doing it because his poll number suck, and somebody somehow got through to him, however momentarily. He isn’t disciplined enough to keep it up

Already he has bailed on the mask.  He is just using it as a photo op.

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 21, 2020 19:59:05 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Jul 21, 2020 19:52:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

He’s doing it because his poll number suck, and somebody somehow got through to him, however momentarily. He isn’t disciplined enough to keep it up

Yes, but still.  Lives saved.  Even if they are mostly Republican lives 

Not sure how many lives are saved. Still haven’t seen the governors in Florida or Georgia change their tune, and we still have republican congress critters backing trump. And there was a picture in my paper of trump and McConnell in the Oval Office without masks on

[lurkyloo]

Any softening of the ridiculous anti-science “virus?  What virus?” stance allows for some Republican leaders to ease the polarization and do more to stop the spread.  If 0.1% of the population sees the photo op and thinks “hm maybe I should wear a mask after all” that is potentially 3000 lives saved directly not to mention a tiny decrease in the exponential term of the spread.

Damage control now.  Reduce the number of innocent and terminally misled getting sick, infecting others, and dying now.  Criminal charges against him and his entire progeny later. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jul 21, 2020 19:52:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jul 21, 2020 19:49:58 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

On a brighter note:  Too lazy to find the link on my tablet, but the LA times had a piece referencing various studies that suggest a mask could mean the difference between severe illness and mild illness, via decreasing inoculation.  I might be more motivated to find the link if it had actual references rather than just an interview with someone talking about the studies.

Also, quite the turn around from the toddler in chief.  I am torn between “he’s only doing this because his poll numbers suck so much” and “who cares, it means some lives saved.” 

He’s doing it because his poll number suck, and somebody somehow got through to him, however momentarily. He isn’t disciplined enough to keep it up

I’m kind of loving the lack of insults being volleyed back and forth by both candidates. I think Biden is playing it perfectly. Let Trump sink his own ship.

[oped]

Also he’s letting the anti trump republicans play the hard ball.