for those of you in higher education

[thyme4change]

May 23, 2020 11:52:50 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

May 23, 2020 9:23:33 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Because politics is somewhat localized and schools are run locally, if the states let them, we may see some districts open with no restrictions, and other make all kinds of changes. That is an interesting experiment, which will give us data.

I feel for people who have kids who have health problems. They may have some tough decisions.

I feel for people who have kids who appear perfectly healthy, because it isn't only those with health problems this thing can injure or kill.

It's an "interesting experiment" that takes children/young adults' lives at risk. I never thought I would see a time when we as a country would be willing to do that. Apparently I would have been wrong.

Hard answers all over.

I'm all for safety, but we can't just cancel school and stay locked down until a vaccine comes. That might take 5 years. I will have to take chances with my children's lives. There isn't many choices. I am worried that my kids' schools will tackle this differently, which puts one kid in a better situation. I'm not pulling them out of school and using one of the shitty online schools (that is also a risk for my kids.) I'm not going to start homeschooling them, because they are signed up for physics and such. I am incapable of teaching them at this point (well, really at every point because I am a terrible teacher - but if they were 7, I probably could have found a way through.) Im not going to let them take a gap year and just start kn another year.

There are no good choices. Life is risky.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 23, 2020 12:06:11 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

May 23, 2020 11:52:50 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

I feel for people who have kids who appear perfectly healthy, because it isn't only those with health problems this thing can injure or kill.

It's an "interesting experiment" that takes children/young adults' lives at risk. I never thought I would see a time when we as a country would be willing to do that. Apparently I would have been wrong.

Hard answers all over.

I'm all for safety, but we can't just cancel school and stay locked down until a vaccine comes. That might take 5 years. I will have to take chances with my children's lives. There isn't many choices. I am worried that my kids' schools will tackle this differently, which puts one kid in a better situation. I'm not pulling them out of school and using one of the shitty online schools (that is also a risk for my kids.) I'm not going to start homeschooling them, because they are signed up for physics and such. I am incapable of teaching them at this point (well, really at every point because I am a terrible teacher - but if they were 7, I probably could have found a way through.) Im not going to let them take a gap year and just start kn another year.

There are no good choices. Life is risky.

There is also the possibility there won't be one. Science is not infallible.

So what then? We've established in this thread I had no business having children due to my inability to formally educate them or plan my life around the fact there would be a global pandemic in my 37th year of life.

Maybe I should adopt them out now to a better prepared family.

You can't make everyone stay home for years on the basis of something that may never happen. You think people are angry now.

Millions around the world deal with incurable diseases. We in the west are incredibly privileged in that regard.

I'd like to hope for a vaccine but we should not betting the entire farm on it.

We may need to learn to live with this. You can't grind the world to a halt forever. Policy needs to be designed to reflect that possibility. Hope for the best plan for the worst.

[oped]

Learning to live with it... and living as if it doesn’t exist... are two different things. And I’m seeing a fair bit of the second.

[Deleted]

I think it's a false argument that we need to be locked down or all open.

We should be opening slowly and with an eye towards safety. But, that boat has already sailed.

I like to see a bit more concern taken when it comes to universities and schools even if it does take them a "gap year" to figure it out. No kid is going to end up stupid or die because they didn't get a quality education for a year. But, I fear the bottom line will win out there as well.

How do schools in areas that are taking massive tax hits expand their offerings to be more safe? Who's paying for all the cleaners, PPE, and additional staff that will be required? CA's already talking about cutting school budgets and already required parents to supply things like cleaning products and pencils...

[Deleted]

May 23, 2020 12:19:10 GMT -5 oped said:

Learning to live with it... and living as if it doesn’t exist... are two different things. And I’m seeing a fair bit of the second.

Thank you. A much more succinct way of putting my thoughts into words.

I keep hearing words indicating this thing is over, we've defeated it, victory is ours, we are open for business, etc... and nothing could be farther from the truth.

Nothing has changed.

We simply lowered the curve that we are now going to allow to balloon back up because people aren't willing to take the time and make the effort to figure this out the right way and not be selfish.

[thyme4change]

May 23, 2020 12:21:33 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

I think it's a false argument that we need to be locked down or all open.

We should be opening slowly and with an eye towards safety. But, that boat has already sailed.

...

But it hasn't really already sailed. Sure, there are currently zero restrictions and only suggestions in my state, but that doesn't mean people have returned to status quo. My office has a plan on place and may let people work from home for years. Restaurants have taken the guidelines to remove tables, and they still aren't at max capacity, because a lot of people don't want to go. Some businesses have opted to stay closed because they can't comply with the guidelines and they don't want to bother.

Wide open by government decree doesn't mean that we are just going around like it doesn't exist. Maybe some people are, but many people are not.

Closing schools for a year is super problematic. Schools feed so many children, and a bunch of kids would just drop out instead of returning. We may increase the number of people needing welfare and aid for decades. There is significant brain drain over the 13 weeks of summer, imagine if we stay closed for 18 months (we closed schools in March, Aug 2021 would be a long ways away.) Many, many kids don't have internet or devices, don't have motivation or family pressure to read or participate in anything to stay sharp. Once again, those with money will have a huge advantage, and those without won't be able to catch up. Closing schools would be a disaster.

[Deleted]

I have a really big problem with schools being responsible for feeding children under normal circumstances. It should be the job of their parents or other social programs. Schools are for education not feeding or babysitting. That seems to have become a new trend in the last decade and should be changed.

In my area, people are going around like this doesn't exist, and that includes the thousands of travelers coming through this area this weekend. All the travel and gatherings will promote more unnecessary outbreaks when this virus isn't even understood yet.

I don't personally have an issue with businesses doing what they choose as long as their employees agree to the additional risks rather than being forced to work or lose unemployment. And, we all know people will do WTF they choose.

However, there seems to be a sentiment out there that the virus is less of a risk now that we have been staying at home. And, that's just blatantly false. It's actually a bigger threat the more people move around and the more businesses are open.

[Deleted]

May 24, 2020 12:51:20 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

I have a really big problem with schools being responsible for feeding children under normal circumstances. It should be the job of their parents or other social programs. Schools are for education not feeding or babysitting. That seems to have become a new trend in the last decade and should be changed.

The last decade?  I'm 50 and schools providing lunch was the norm when I started, including free/reduced meals.  I don't get who else is supposed to feed these kids at school if their parents don't send food?  

[TheOtherMe]

Around here, there is no one to feed children of poor/unemployed parents if they are not fed at school.  Some churches have a backpack program to send home food for the weekend, but the churches have not been open.

Lots of kids are fed breakfast and lunch at school.  At some of the schools over 90% of the kids qualify for free/reduced meals.  

Many of the programs are seeking donations to continue providing meals for kids over the summer.

I've lived here 11 years.  Free/reduced meals were happening long before that in the Denver area.

[oped]

The program started in 1946.

[Deleted]

Free and reduced lunch has always been around. But sending home food has not been. Big difference.

[Deleted]

May 24, 2020 20:18:03 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Free and reduced lunch has always been around. But sending home food has not been. Big difference.

But you were saying you objected to schools being responsible for feeding kids AT ALL. Except for now I don't think schools sending home food was the norm.  There are the backpack programs for the weekends at some schools, but that's usually in partnership with a non-profit.  

[oped]

I know summer programs extending free and reduced lunches have existed for a long time around here, community places like parks, or camps with large numbers of low income kids that qualify, and where kids are served or can pick up free lunches.

[Lizard Queen]

I just saw on Facebook that MSU is going to be a hybrid of in person and online in the fall, with the final 3 weeks and exams being fully remote.
ETA: finally found the article with the details::

www.mlive.com/news/2020/05/students-will-return-for-fall-semester-michigan-state-university-president-says.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=mlivedotcom_sf&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR3HC9kjE-ikWmNtHp_foeX_qWEi6e1_amT4PD4pRUSnll_SonUVa9Pkls0

[Deleted]

University of Minnesota president just gave her recommendation that they start as normal this Fall and classes and finals after Thanksgiving would be remote with no returning to campus until January.  The board is meeting next week and I hope they agree with her recommendation.  

[giramomma]

Jun 5, 2020 14:47:38 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

University of Minnesota president just gave her recommendation that they start as normal this Fall and classes and finals after Thanksgiving would be remote with no returning to campus until January.  The board is meeting next week and I hope they agree with her recommendation.  

Have you heard anything specific about how Engineering is handled?

We've got enough international students in our engineering programs that professors are still looking at putting traditionally face-to-face courses online..

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2020 14:54:20 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jun 5, 2020 14:47:38 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

University of Minnesota president just gave her recommendation that they start as normal this Fall and classes and finals after Thanksgiving would be remote with no returning to campus until January.  The board is meeting next week and I hope they agree with her recommendation.  

Have you heard anything specific about how Engineering is handled?

We've got enough international students in our engineering programs that professors are still looking at putting traditionally face-to-face courses online..

No.  It was a pretty general statement about a hybrid approach that would allow them to go back and forth if the need arose and reducing class sizes by adding more evening and Saturday sections. I know DS's Chemistry class the lecture is entirely online, with an in-person lab, but his other classes are all "normal".  She also suggested each campus adjust their calendars to start earlier, so that might be happening too that they're just done by Thanksgiving. 

[NoNamePerson]

May 24, 2020 14:30:06 GMT -5 oped said:

The program started in 1946.

Wasn’t sure of the exact year but reduced/free lunches were available when I entered 1st grade in 1949. 

[raeoflyte]

Our school has a backpack program but it doesn't pay for it. It's volunteer/donation based.

I'm also concerned about the massive budget cuts the schools are facing from lost state revenue.

[wvugurl26]

My alma mater is starting as usual in August. No fall break though. On campus classes done by Thanksgiving. 1 week of online classes after Thanksgiving and then finals online.

They return in January the Tuesday after MLK. There is no spring break either. I've heard several colleges state that spring being on campus is dependent upon what happens in late 2020.

[haapai]

Jun 5, 2020 14:47:38 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

University of Minnesota president just gave her recommendation that they start as normal this Fall and classes and finals after Thanksgiving would be remote with no returning to campus until January.  The board is meeting next week and I hope they agree with her recommendation.  

My alma mater just announced pretty much the same thing.  The start date is as previously announced.  Classes will be a mix of in-person and on-line i.e. they don't have many of the details worked out yet.  In-person instruction will end on the Wednesday before T-day and exams (and exam-prep) will be remote.  Students, including international students, may remain on campus until the end of exams but everything after Thanksgiving will be remote. 

There's some vague blather about reduced capacity in the dining halls and lots of "grab and go" meals.  I don't know whether this is a promise or a threat.  If you're feeding the students lousy sandwiches they will probably be delighted to go home as soon as possible and won't be interested in returning to campus for exams and more boxed meals. 

Not one word was said regarding how the university would deal with students who become ill with CV-19 or any type of testing or tracking. 

I would sum this up as "They are winging it." 

[jelloshots4all]

Jun 6, 2020 11:37:31 GMT -5 haapai said:

Jun 5, 2020 14:47:38 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

University of Minnesota president just gave her recommendation that they start as normal this Fall and classes and finals after Thanksgiving would be remote with no returning to campus until January.  The board is meeting next week and I hope they agree with her recommendation.  

My alma mater just announced pretty much the same thing.  The start date is as previously announced.  Classes will be a mix of in-person and on-line i.e. they don't have many of the details worked out yet.  In-person instruction will end on the Wednesday before T-day and exams (and exam-prep) will be remote.  Students, including international students, may remain on campus until the end of exams but everything after Thanksgiving will be remote. 

There's some vague blather about reduced capacity in the dining halls and lots of "grab and go" meals.  I don't know whether this is a promise or a threat.  If you're feeding the students lousy sandwiches they will probably be delighted to go home as soon as possible and won't be interested in returning to campus for exams and more boxed meals. 

Not one word was said regarding how the university would deal with students who become ill with CV-19 or any type of testing or tracking. 

I would sum this up as "They are winging it." 

I hope universities look at vending dining.  I had a system installed at my last company that you could purchase awesome subs (prime rib parm), really good salads, yogurt, veggies with ranch, fruit, soups, muffins, cheese with beef sticks, etc.  It was much better than our previous "vending wheel of death" machine.  Our employees loved it!  And the prices were very reasonable.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 5, 2020 15:22:52 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 5, 2020 14:54:20 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Have you heard anything specific about how Engineering is handled?

We've got enough international students in our engineering programs that professors are still looking at putting traditionally face-to-face courses online..

No.  It was a pretty general statement about a hybrid approach that would allow them to go back and forth if the need arose and reducing class sizes by adding more evening and Saturday sections. I know DS's Chemistry class the lecture is entirely online, with an in-person lab, but his other classes are all "normal".  She also suggested each campus adjust their calendars to start earlier, so that might be happening too that they're just done by Thanksgiving. 

I would imagine they will speed up the labs and get those done before Thanksgiving.  It might adjust the lectures some to compensate.  Labs do not always follow lecture material, especially in early chemistry classes.  As I remember it, the labs became more representative of lecture material in the advanced classes.

[Deleted]

I just spent several hours listening to the board of regents meeting and walked away with no firm ideas of what they're going to do at all.  Just a lot of ideas still.  They want to start early, but they're having to talk with all the area landlords first since they don't want a bunch of homeless students for the first week or two of the semester.  

[oped]

Highlights from yesterday's letter from son's school. 

This academic year will feature a hybrid approach to learning, research and student life designed first and foremost to support the health and safety of students, faculty and professional staff, while also fulfilling the University's mission of teaching, research and service. Classes will be taught both in person on campus and remotely.


The final confirmation of our plan to return to campus will come when Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf determines that Philadelphia can move into the least-restrictive "green" phase of the state's coronavirus reopening plan. Once that happens, we'll be ready — thanks to the determination and hard work of the members of the Fall 2020 COVID-19 Task Force.


Upon reviewing the Task Force's extensive reports, and in accordance with Gov. Wolf's decision to shift the Philadelphia region's status from "red" to "yellow" on Friday, June 5, I am recommending that Drexel reopen our campus for the fall within the framework of a hybrid approach that includes:

• Providing continuous delivery of high-quality education through a combination of face-to-face and online methods;

• Establishing and scaling up procedures to mitigate the potential for further transmission of infection; and

• Limiting the number of students, faculty and professional staff on campus to ensure that social distancing measures can be implemented properly.


Key features of our reopening plan include the following:

Increased Campus-Wide Safety Measures

New health and safety protocols are being established across all of our campuses, including, but not limited to:

• Use of personal protective equipment in key settings;

• Mandatory health and safety trainings;

• Implementation of public health measures for keeping our campus community as safe as possible including use of face masks, contact tracing and social distancing policies and protocols; and

• Enhanced cleaning procedures based on the latest health department guidelines.


A Phased Approach to Academics and Research

Academic departments will be asked to categorize and determine courses that: 1) should be offered fully on campus; 2) can be offered in a hybrid format with a combination of both face-to-face and remote instruction; and 3) will be conducted fully online. Research labs and related spaces, including support offices, have already begun to open gradually in accordance with public health guidance and with clear safety protocols in place.


Planning for Students

The University is finalizing a detailed plan to safely transition and reintegrate students back into campus housing and activities. We will ensure that clear protocols and accountability for conduct are established both for on-campus and off-campus housing. More details will be provided as detailed plans are finalized in the coming weeks.


A Modified, Yet Full Academic Calendar

The University will deliver a full 10-week term, which will begin on September 21 and end on December 14. To minimize the potential for virus spread, students who are on campus will be asked to depart by Thanksgiving. Following the Thanksgiving break, they will complete their final week of the term and finals remotely rather than traveling back and forth for Thanksgiving and increasing the potential for viral transmission.


There is also a lot about continued planning and task force plans etc. but those seemed like most important. 

[oped]

Daughter's school has sent nothing. Their website says this: RIT leadership is optimistic about a fall opening on campus.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I have heard nothing from our school system beyond a couple "We're thinking" emails.  I get nobody knows for certain but I REALLY don't want to be left hanging till the last minute. 

That is what they did with closure.  They told us end of the week then next thing I know I am getting an alert to come pick up my children that Monday.   Thank Goodness  Kids & Co stayed open normal hours and worst case I could have authorized my dad to pick them up.   What about people who didn't have that option?   They could have at least gone till the end of the day then sent notices home saying no school the rest of the week.

I have a feeling they will do the same thing with school opening then yet again not get why parents are pissed off.   I'd like to know sooner rather than later in case we need to make arrangements.   

[oped]

I have stopped being amazed at how much better Drexel is than RIT at this shit. But it makes me worry that RIT isn't as good as everyone seems to think it is... meanwhile Drexel runs like a well oiled machine, utilized the tech it is supposed to be teaching and such as in this case has been in front of the ball the whole time, dealing expertly and with logical, research based processes and communicating regularly the results of those efforts. 

That said, on one point, RIT sent daughter a small Care Act Grant... no questions asked, and Son was ineligible to even apply for one because if you didn't owe 15K or more for the term you weren't eligible. 

[Deleted]

There was one regent that just had to shoot everything down.  He apparently wanted some iron clad plan that covered everything right now instead of ironing out the details later.  I mean, I get being thorough, but do we really need to know how we're going to address non-compliance for wearing masks in the public areas before we agree to masks?   Just a lot of nit-picking of the presented plan that I found annoying.  

[Deleted]

Finally got word today they're going back...but not early.  Same Sept 8th start date.  Courses offered in a "portfolio of modalities" for flexibility and to accommodate those who are high risk or cannot be present on campus.  It sounds like they will have roommates unless they requested a single which I kind of figured.  No real way for everyone to have a single unless they put them up in apartments off campus. 

Just happy to have a plan in place even if it's one designed to shift around if need be.