for those of you in higher education

[Deleted]

May 19, 2020 21:32:46 GMT -5 oped said:

I find it hard to trust anyone saying they are definitely on campus this fall, at this point. Now if they are giving the metrics by which they will be on campus that I get. But not knowing what the metrics will be, it seems hard to give a solid on campus at this time...

Iowa State has been leading everyone to believe that they were going to start on campus this Fall and all the parents are acting like they are, but I just saw today that they cancelled welcome week the week prior to school, so I don't think they're as definite as everyone thinks...unless it is the first step into an altered start time schedule. 

I watched the UMN town hall today and they didn't commit to anything, but I did leave feeling pretty confident that they were on top of things and preparing to jump on one of multiple scenarios at a later date.  I'm hoping in the next few weeks they at least outline what those 4 possible routes are, so I know when they say "We're going with Plan C" I know what they're talking about.

[haapai]

I worry a lot about those international students.  No matter what decisions and promises the schools make regarding having in-person classes and operational dorms, the odds are very good that the virus will put classes online and turn the dorms into something very lonely and prison-like. 

I hope that most of them figure out how worthless the promises that the schools have made are and get the heck out of there before classes go online only again and worried parents yank their kids out of the dorms. 

[teen persuasion]

May 20, 2020 14:05:37 GMT -5 haapai said:

I worry a lot about those international students.  No matter what decisions and promises the schools make regarding having in-person classes and operational dorms, the odds are very good that the virus will put classes online and turn the dorms into something very lonely and prison-like. 

I hope that most of them figure out how worthless the promises that the schools have made are and get the heck out of there before classes go online only again and worried parents yank their kids out of the dorms. 

DS4 just returned home from his (relatively local university).  We were discussing how much of a ghost town it was, who stayed/ who went home.  He said international students stayed because they couldn't afford the outrageous airfare home when the pandemic first hit big in NYC.  Lots of downstate students left for home, though, some of his roommates included.

[pulmonarymd]

That was the problem with closing and sending everyone home. Some kids were being sent to s higher risk area. This again gets to the lack of guidance that was given at governmental levels. Sending kids to nyc from the Midwest was not smart. If more planning and less panic was done, it could have been managed better. Most schools could have stayed open. Students could have been warned that they may not have been let back on campus if they left the area. May have been smarter in the long run. But that would have required a longer period of discussion and a more nuanced approach. Obviously, schools in the hot spots had to close

[debthaven]

He said international students stayed because they couldn't afford the outrageous airfare home when the pandemic first hit big in NYC.

Some of my Asian students COULDN'T (and still can't!) go home because their borders are closed. The ones who made it home only managed because their parents insisted at the VERY beginning of the crisis in Europe, WAY before lockdown.

I went into one class one day (so obviously before schools were closed here), and ALL my Asian students were suddenly gone! I was told they had dropped out or were taking a semester off. Then once we went to online classes the following week, they immediately all reappeared on Zoom. (Absolutely NO judgement here! I'm just relaying my experience.)

My schools are talking about the exact same scenarios that MPL mentioned (except for starting early, that won't happen here). They seem to be favoring the idea of alternating being online or in person, either by alternating days within the same week, or alternating weeks.

I'm still being asked to do the same amount of recommendation / English level letters for students planning to go abroad next year. Obviously I do them as requested, but I wonder, will they really manage to go abroad?!

I'm also wondering, how many parents from outside Paris are going to be willing to pay for very  expensive housing IN Paris in order for their kid to attend school 2 or 3 days a week, or every other week (at best!)?!

[oped]

May 20, 2020 17:45:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

That was the problem with closing and sending everyone home. Some kids were being sent to s higher risk area. This again gets to the lack of guidance that was given at governmental levels. Sending kids to nyc from the Midwest was not smart. If more planning and less panic was done, it could have been managed better. Most schools could have stayed open. Students could have been warned that they may not have been let back on campus if they left the area. May have been smarter in the long run. But that would have required a longer period of discussion and a more nuanced approach. Obviously, schools in the hot spots had to close

Lots were on spring break and already out of the area. Both my kids were home.

[teen persuasion]

May 20, 2020 17:45:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

That was the problem with closing and sending everyone home. Some kids were being sent to s higher risk area. This again gets to the lack of guidance that was given at governmental levels. Sending kids to nyc from the Midwest was not smart. If more planning and less panic was done, it could have been managed better. Most schools could have stayed open. Students could have been warned that they may not have been let back on campus if they left the area. May have been smarter in the long run. But that would have required a longer period of discussion and a more nuanced approach. Obviously, schools in the hot spots had to close

I believe these students were already planning to go home for break anyway, they just stayed home once given the option to go all online.  DS4 opted to stay on campus thru to finals.

Buffalo isn't Midwest; well, maybe it feels like it to the downstate students. 

[pulmonarymd]

That’s why I was saying it needed to be planned for at least a month before. But, yes, you obviously couldn’t have kids go home to nyc, the go back to school

[oped]

One of the local colleges just said: 

University will start the fall semester earlier and students will finish the semester remotely after leaving campus before Thanksgiving in response to evolving guidance from public health officials regarding the COVID-19 global pandemic.

[teen persuasion]

Cuomo announced today there will be no in person summer school. It's too early to decide about in person classes for the fall semester (including colleges). He wants more info on the inflammation syndrome in children (157 cases in NY) before any decisions are made.

NY distance learning only for summer

[pulmonarymd]

No word on how many children the republicans feel are expendable yet?

[thyme4change]

May 21, 2020 13:31:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No word on how many children the republicans feel are expendable yet?

My Republican-led state university has announced in person classes, football will happen, and there will be live spectators. And they added the caveat "we aren't sure of the details". So, I guess college students are expendable, even their athletes, and probably some of their boosters.

[pulmonarymd]

May 21, 2020 16:02:37 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

May 21, 2020 13:31:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No word on how many children the republicans feel are expendable yet?

My Republican-led state university has announced in person classes, football will happen, and there will be live spectators. And they added the caveat "we aren't sure of the details". So, I guess college students are expendable, even their athletes, and probably some of their boosters.

Well obviously, since they are all likely Democrats anyway. Outbreak in Italy was helped on its way by a big crowd at a soccer match. Can only imagine the possibilities at a college football game.

[thyme4change]

May 21, 2020 16:05:26 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 21, 2020 16:02:37 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

My Republican-led state university has announced in person classes, football will happen, and there will be live spectators. And they added the caveat "we aren't sure of the details". So, I guess college students are expendable, even their athletes, and probably some of their boosters.

Well obviously, since they are all likely Democrats anyway. Outbreak in Italy was helped on its way by a big crowd at a soccer match. Can only imagine the possibilities at a college football game.

Although it is a large outdoor stadium, so if they cut tickets by 75%, it probably won't be so bad.

[pulmonarymd]

Soccer was outdoors, 100k people. Are they really not going to fill the stadium? Way to get fired

[giramomma]

May 21, 2020 13:31:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No word on how many children the republicans feel are expendable yet?

We won't know until at the end of July.

That said, right now the infection rate in my county is .01%...And the death rate is .000052%

We opened up fully last week, already. I figure we'll see how things go in the next two weeks.

I have a hard time, with these numbers, going to the "how much are our kids worth." immediately.

Will we see a spike, sure. But, I think young people dying in other ways is more probable than young people dying of covid right now.

[pulmonarymd]

May 21, 2020 18:46:17 GMT -5 giramomma said:

May 21, 2020 13:31:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No word on how many children the republicans feel are expendable yet?

We won't know until at the end of July.

That said, right now the infection rate in my county is .01%...And the death rate is .000052%

We opened up fully last week, already. I figure we'll see how things go in the next two weeks.

I have a hard time, with these numbers, going to the "how much are our kids worth." immediately.

Will we see a spike, sure. But, I think young people dying in other ways is more probable than young people dying of covid right now.

150+ kids in ny have that inflammatory syndrome from covid. I understand your point, I was being a bit snarky, since they do not seem to care about old people dying. But being reckless with opening schools when we don’t understand this syndrome is unconscionably. The republicans want to basically ignore the whole disease and it’s ramifications at the moment.

I recognize the difficulty with this decision. There is no playbook for this. My issue is that instead of trying to be serious about how we go about this, getting multiple experts from different fields, we have a haphazard approach driven by a president with the inability to lead. Opening schools gets to the core of the irresponsibility in display. Very few parents want their children to be guinea pigs, but apparently that is what is going to happen

[thyme4change]

May 21, 2020 18:04:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Soccer was outdoors, 100k people. Are they really not going to fill the stadium? Way to get fired

There were games this weekend with zero people in the stands.

There is big enough money in the TV contracts that sports can survive without a crowd for a year or two.

[pulmonarymd]

May 21, 2020 23:20:50 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

May 21, 2020 18:04:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Soccer was outdoors, 100k people. Are they really not going to fill the stadium? Way to get fired

There were games this weekend with zero people in the stands.

There is big enough money in the TV contracts that sports can survive without a crowd for a year or two.

Professional sports will take a revenue hit without fans, will depend On the sport. Football will take least hit. But if the owners and players want to play, it is all negotiable. I know it will be a while before I would be comfortable going to a game.

College football is much more of a political issue, especially in the big public southern university. Playing without fans will release a firestorm of protest, I think, and I doubt it would be played without fans. How safe that will be is anybody’s guess

[giramomma]

May 21, 2020 19:28:36 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

150+ kids in ny have that inflammatory syndrome from covid. I understand your point, I was being a bit snarky, since they do not seem to care about old people dying. But being reckless with opening schools when we don’t understand this syndrome is unconscionably. The republicans want to basically ignore the whole disease and it’s ramifications at the moment.

I recognize the difficulty with this decision. There is no playbook for this. My issue is that instead of trying to be serious about how we go about this, getting multiple experts from different fields, we have a haphazard approach driven by a president with the inability to lead. Opening schools gets to the core of the irresponsibility in display. Very few parents want their children to be guinea pigs, but apparently that is what is going to happen

I know. My state was the first state to completely open up, thanks to the repubs. And there is no guidance on safety at the state level, thanks to the repubs.

And, actually, my county is trying to have reasonable, phased opening. And now, they are being sued for that.

I also don't know that I'm seeing recklessness in schools, right now. I will suspend judgement until we hit fall. Even if schools did open up, is that any more reckless than folks in my state packing bars without social distancing? Or opening up large water parks asking patrons to self-police in terms of social distancing?

[oped]

You can choose not to go to a bar. You will have to officially homeschool to avoid mandatory school attendance. 

[pulmonarymd]

May 22, 2020 8:03:11 GMT -5 giramomma said:

May 21, 2020 19:28:36 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

150+ kids in ny have that inflammatory syndrome from covid. I understand your point, I was being a bit snarky, since they do not seem to care about old people dying. But being reckless with opening schools when we don’t understand this syndrome is unconscionably. The republicans want to basically ignore the whole disease and it’s ramifications at the moment.

I recognize the difficulty with this decision. There is no playbook for this. My issue is that instead of trying to be serious about how we go about this, getting multiple experts from different fields, we have a haphazard approach driven by a president with the inability to lead. Opening schools gets to the core of the irresponsibility in display. Very few parents want their children to be guinea pigs, but apparently that is what is going to happen

I know. My state was the first state to completely open up, thanks to the repubs. And there is no guidance on safety at the state level, thanks to the repubs.

And, actually, my county is trying to have reasonable, phased opening. And now, they are being sued for that.

I also don't know that I'm seeing recklessness in schools, right now. I will suspend judgement until we hit fall. Even if schools did open up, is that any more reckless than folks in my state packing bars without social distancing? Or opening up large water parks asking patrons to self-police in terms of social distancing?

[/quoite]


I have to say your state is trying to be the winner in the “how stupid do I want to be” award. Apparently, taking any sort of precaution, on the small chance you could be wrong is giving in to the elites. Maybe we shouldn’t have insurance, save for a rainy day, or save for retirement based on their logic, because nothing bad could possibly happen

[Deleted]

I asked the same question a week or two ago - how many children dying to go to school is reasonable? And, got the usual false arguments that we have to open up the economy and domestic abuse happens so kids should be in school...

Alabama started opening early. How's that going for them and why will anywhere else be different. Oh yeah, it won't.

Right now in CA all the churches are opening up next weekend for services. I'd assume next year we will have fewer believers as they get sick in groups.

[thyme4change]

May 22, 2020 8:05:11 GMT -5 oped said:

You can choose not to go to a bar. You will have to officially homeschool to avoid mandatory school attendance. 

This will be a big score for those lousy online charter schools.

[giramomma]

May 22, 2020 8:05:11 GMT -5 oped said:

You can choose not to go to a bar. You will have to officially homeschool to avoid mandatory school attendance. 

I agree with you. However, I think that some public school systems were not particularly stringent with mandatory attendance after being closed. I would imagine that will have to move forward while we are still in the pandemic.

Mandatory school attendance was pretty much waved in our state. The state law requiring that there be x amount of instructional hours for the school year was waved. Even at the HS DS goes to and another one I have clients that go to, mandatory daily attendance isn't a thing.. Assignments are given on Monday...to be turned in on Friday. My son had no mandatory zoom calls, so he didn't attend school every day...

[haapai]

The two flagship schools in Michigan are dithering.  The rest will have classroom instruction and open their dorms.  Oakland U has announced that they will be primarily online with some labs on campus.  No word yet on their dorms, although they are primarily a commuter school. 

www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2020/05/14/msu-michigan-state-university-in-person-classes-on-campus-fall-coronavirus/5192813002/

My bet is that U of M will go with a partial or staged reopening and that State will do the same.  Unfortunately, they are running out of time to put their ducks in a row.  I'm not too enthused about the presence of two physicians on the reopening committee.  There's an awful lot of details about testing, including sentinel testing, that need to be answered as well as fallback plans if the school becomes a hot spot.  I'd also like to know more details about how students who test positive or have been exposed to a known case will be isolated from others as well as what type of tracing apps they may be considering using.  Most importantly, I want to know how much information on the results of testing will be made public.  I don't want to know who tested positive but I want to know the results of tests that are conducted.  I've got a sense that there are lots of ways for a school to hide behind HIPPA or restrict testing to symptomatic individuals or use unconscionably slow or inaccurate tests. 

Both schools typically do not permit first and second year students to bring vehicles to campus, so leaving school because you have lost confidence in the school's ability to handle an outbreak can be a bit of a cluster****.  You can't exactly tell your kid to get on a train or a bus (unethical) and having two people drive to campus in separate cars and having the student drive one of them home can take a bit of time to arrange. 

I think that a lot of families will be setting up kids' tables in garages this Thanksgiving. 

[Lizard Queen]

My son's teacher's son was supposed to start as a freshman at State this fall, but is deferring a year and attending the local CC instead. I thought she said it was because it was going to be online, but maybe that was just an assumption on her part.

[NastyWoman]

May 21, 2020 13:31:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No word on how many of their children the republicans feel are expendable yet?

That is the question I would like to have an answer to. We already know that far too many don't care about people who are not of their political or economic cohort. It is time they go public with who they actually do care for, aside from themselves that is

[thyme4change]

May 23, 2020 1:28:08 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

May 21, 2020 13:31:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No word on how many of their children the republicans feel are expendable yet?

That is the question I would like to have an answer to. We already know that far too many don't care about people who are not of their political or economic cohort. It is time they go public with who they actually do care for, aside from themselves that is

Because politics is somewhat localized and schools are run locally, if the states let them, we may see some districts open with no restrictions, and other make all kinds of changes. That is an interesting experiment, which will give us data.

I feel for people who have kids who have health problems. They may have some tough decisions.

[Deleted]

May 23, 2020 9:23:33 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

May 23, 2020 1:28:08 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

That is the question I would like to have an answer to. We already know that far too many don't care about people who are not of their political or economic cohort. It is time they go public with who they actually do care for, aside from themselves that is

Because politics is somewhat localized and schools are run locally, if the states let them, we may see some districts open with no restrictions, and other make all kinds of changes. That is an interesting experiment, which will give us data.

I feel for people who have kids who have health problems. They may have some tough decisions.

I feel for people who have kids who appear perfectly healthy, because it isn't only those with health problems this thing can injure or kill.

It's an "interesting experiment" that takes children/young adults' lives at risk. I never thought I would see a time when we as a country would be willing to do that. Apparently I would have been wrong.

Hard answers all over.