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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 5, 2020 12:35:14 GMT -5
One day into hydrocodone and he took 7 pills in 24 hours [img src="https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/sad.png" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png" alt=" " class="smile"] dosage is 1 every 4 hours. Decided that I have to talk to him about it - doesnt seem like i have any other option. My mom suggested only leaving 2 pills in the bottle for him to take and then he has to ask for more if he does need it. What a sucky situation for me to be in particularly when everything else is headed in the right direction. UGH! Is he still having pain or is this something else? 1 every 4 hours is 6 pills in 24 hours if you take them regularly. I know that 1 pill does squat for me because I am not opiate naive...and neither is your husband. Can he alternate Tylenol with hydroxycodone? You need to be careful about overdosing with Tylenol, but I think that hydroxycodone now only contains 325 mg of acetaminophen. You can take 3000 mg/day, it just becomes a math problem.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 5, 2020 12:52:43 GMT -5
Left him 2 in the bottle only to figure out he is taking 2 at a time because dose is 1 to 2. He said his pain is a constant 4 out of 10. I'm not sure he tried just taking 1 to see if it was enough.
He is really upset with me and I'm just plain old upset. We picked up lunch after nurse appt and they gave me roast beef instead of ham. Pink roast beef no less. FML.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 5, 2020 13:00:43 GMT -5
Hugs Azucena.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 5, 2020 13:57:42 GMT -5
Mathematically, you would take seven in the first 24 hours, since the first pill is taken at hour zero, not hour four. Pills would be at hours 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 5, 2020 16:25:27 GMT -5
Mathematically, you would take seven in the first 24 hours, since the first pill is taken at hour zero, not hour four. Pills would be at hours 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24. You are missing the point that at almost 6 weeks post surgery pain pill usage should be trending way down, not up. The doctor only prescribed 30 pills so surely he didn't mean them to used in 3 days. In talking to dh, it's clear that he is not paying attn to how much he is taking and timing. Which isn't surprising because he has lost track of what day it is or if the nurse is coming (ie mon, weds, fri).
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 5, 2020 16:58:22 GMT -5
Could you get a small white board or something and have your daughters update it? That doesn't solve the pill problem of course.
I find it easy to lose track of days if I'm on vacation and don't have a lot of plans.
Your mom's suggestion puts you in charge of the pills but it's probably the best option.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 5, 2020 17:05:43 GMT -5
I dont want to be in charge of pills but it seems I dont really have a choice.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 5, 2020 17:11:49 GMT -5
Mathematically, you would take seven in the first 24 hours, since the first pill is taken at hour zero, not hour four. Pills would be at hours 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24. You are missing the point that at almost 6 weeks post surgery pain pill usage should be trending way down, not up. The doctor only prescribed 30 pills so surely he didn't mean them to used in 3 days. In talking to dh, it's clear that he is not paying attn to how much he is taking and timing. Which isn't surprising because he has lost track of what day it is or if the nurse is coming (ie mon, weds, fri). This pill is not as effective as oxy IMO. Can he set a timer on his phone to ding every 4 hours? What I found is that you get distracted, forget the time and when you finally remember, it's because pain has reminded you. At that point, one pill simply doesn't work, you need 2.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 5, 2020 18:05:01 GMT -5
Mathematically, you would take seven in the first 24 hours, since the first pill is taken at hour zero, not hour four. Pills would be at hours 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24. You are missing the point that at almost 6 weeks post surgery pain pill usage should be trending way down, not up. The doctor only prescribed 30 pills so surely he didn't mean them to used in 3 days. In talking to dh, it's clear that he is not paying attn to how much he is taking and timing. Which isn't surprising because he has lost track of what day it is or if the nurse is coming (ie mon, weds, fri). No, but you may be missing mine. If there is an issue outside of the dosage recommendation then that is another matter, and you may be perfectly correct to be concerned. There is not a concern based strictly on what you stated originally. As I said, speaking mathematically the dosage recommendation is being followed based on what you stated. I am not in the medical field and typically do not take any medications so don't know how they are prescribed, but perhaps it could be stated differently, such as, "Take as needed for pain, not to exceed one every four hours." If there is an issue the physician should be able to discuss it with you both. You may have a legitimate concern about the pill usage, but you cannot really complain much if the patient is taking the pills in accordance with the dosage schedule. That's all.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 5, 2020 18:10:02 GMT -5
You are missing the point that at almost 6 weeks post surgery pain pill usage should be trending way down, not up. The doctor only prescribed 30 pills so surely he didn't mean them to used in 3 days. In talking to dh, it's clear that he is not paying attn to how much he is taking and timing. Which isn't surprising because he has lost track of what day it is or if the nurse is coming (ie mon, weds, fri). This pill is not as effective as oxy IMO. Can he set a timer on his phone to ding every 4 hours? What I found is that you get distracted, forget the time and when you finally remember, it's because pain has reminded you. At that point, one pill simply doesn't work, you need 2. Good idea about the timer and good point about it being less potent. As of 3 weeks ago, he wasnt taking the oxy around the clock. That didnt start until we got it refilled. When he was less mobile, he was asking me to bring him pills. It wasnt until he was getting them himself and I was in and out of the house more that it became a problem.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 5, 2020 18:48:03 GMT -5
This pill is not as effective as oxy IMO. Can he set a timer on his phone to ding every 4 hours? What I found is that you get distracted, forget the time and when you finally remember, it's because pain has reminded you. At that point, one pill simply doesn't work, you need 2. Good idea about the timer and good point about it being less potent. As of 3 weeks ago, he wasnt taking the oxy around the clock. That didnt start until we got it refilled. When he was less mobile, he was asking me to bring him pills. It wasnt until he was getting them himself and I was in and out of the house more that it became a problem. This makes sense. If you move more, you hurt more. If you are sitting, you don't hurt as much because you aren't asking your muscles to pull against the damage. It is only when you do more that you start to feel more pain. I also suspect that since he knew he needed to ask you for a pain pill, that was restricting his access some. I feel for you, it IS a fine line that you need to walk to give him the pain meds he needs to be able to move more (moving more is always better) and make sure he is not taking them as a crutch. For me, I never got any sort of euphoria about being on narcotics, but apparently some do. I only had a severe lack of concentration and I HATED that I had the attention span of a gnat. So I tended to take them less than I should, and then TD would yell at me to take them because I was hurting. I do have another suggestion. When I was taking narcotics around the clock, I would wake up like clockwork form my 2 am dose - +/- 15 min. The first time I woke up around 3 am hurting, I started to taper myself off. So perhaps see if he sleeps through his night time dose and if he does have him start tapering off? By my calculation, he is going to be out of pain meds by Sat. Is this going to be a problem?
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 5, 2020 19:41:26 GMT -5
To my knowledge he isnt taking them at all at night time. And when I say he is more mobile, I only mean slightly. His usage doesn't seem to be tied to when I take him somewhere when he is truly walking more.
From previous conversations years ago he does get euphoric. His dad was a raging alcoholic and smoker and dh is very very careful about drinking.
Also this pattern has happened after every surgery with narcotics. Several months later he has historically told me I was right to monitor it.
Since we are working with a new surgeon I have no idea when his refills may be limited.
This evening my mom suggested I privately ask the home health nurse what is typical at this stage.
It is such a fine, fine line.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 5, 2020 20:32:12 GMT -5
I understand you don't want to be the keeper. That's totally reasonable. I get it that it's not a dynamic you want to get into.
Mich's phone alarm is a good idea. Also it wasn't so much narcotics but when my grandpa had a boatload of prescriptions with different dosing times, I made a checklist grid. Maybe it would help him to track it that way and see what he's taken.
It is less powerful but if he can't remember what he's taking that could be helpful.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 5, 2020 20:55:27 GMT -5
This is the only script he is taking and it's more like he is choosing to not pay attn than truly not remembering.
Sorry if I seem stubborn about this. The last few days have not been great for me. My adrenaline has clearly worn off, and I want/need nothing more than to sleep for hours and hours. But between taking the kids to/from school, doing the bare minimum for work, and making sure everyone is fed (even just takeout) - I'm crumbling.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 5, 2020 21:37:44 GMT -5
No apology needed here. You've lived it before and you know what his patterns are. I hope you can find ways to take things off your plate. I'm certain it is way too much for you to handle. You need time to decompress and you can't get it.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 6, 2020 4:10:51 GMT -5
At 6 weeks, even with an open wound, he is using far more pain medication than necessary. It’s not unusual to need some for a dressing change, but he should be transitioning to Tylenol. Only problem is hydrocodone usually is prescribed as a pill Eleuthera acetaminophen, and you have to watch so you don’t take more than 4 grams a day. If he does not wake with pain, and can go 6+ hours without medication at night, you might have a problem
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Mar 6, 2020 7:42:15 GMT -5
Sending you hugs azucena. You are a strong person to handle all of this. Hoping you get some well deserved rest soon.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 6, 2020 8:39:47 GMT -5
I know I'd be begging my parents and DH's to do school drop off and pickups but they're all retired and would want to help out.
I hope you get some rest this weekend Azucena.
And Mich, thank you for the bit about pain and moving. I needed to hear that because I pulled something near my rib cage and movement hurts. It's terrible to be unable to blow your nose without pain when you have sinus drainage going on...
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 6, 2020 9:16:22 GMT -5
My mom is only 62, works full time, and is about 30 mins away.
Realized a couple days ago that neither his mom or sister have been in touch with us for about 3 weeks. Who does that?
Having a good cry this morning which is probably exactly what i need.
I do need to enlist more help than I have been lately. I was good at it at first but haven't asked enough lately particularly so I can focus on myself and work.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Mar 6, 2020 9:31:14 GMT -5
Hugs to you, azucena. It's tough. I really hope you can find a way to truly take a break from the DH-care, child care, work routine and just have one day to sleep and relax. I think your DH is going to have to figure out a plan to taper down. Maybe start with 4 a day: 2 in the a.m., one mid-day and one at night for a few days, then go to 3 a day, then 2, then 2 only on dressing change days, or something like that. Because hydrocodone is less strong/effective than oxycodone he may need to find a way to accept more pain for a while. But he is improving, that's the key.
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anciana
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Post by anciana on Mar 6, 2020 9:45:47 GMT -5
Many, many hugs, azucena Could any of parents that have kids in the same school help with school pick up/drop off? Even a bit would help to lighten your load. Sometimes people want to help but don't know what to do or are afraid to hurt someone's feelings by making them feel inadequate if the offer. You are doing an amazing job taking care of everything and everybody. It is totally understandable that the adrenaline is wearing off at this time and you need to take care of yourself more. Hang in there!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 6, 2020 11:50:55 GMT -5
I know I'd be begging my parents and DH's to do school drop off and pickups but they're all retired and would want to help out.
I hope you get some rest this weekend Azucena.
And Mich, thank you for the bit about pain and moving. I needed to hear that because I pulled something near my rib cage and movement hurts. It's terrible to be unable to blow your nose without pain when you have sinus drainage going on... I had a horrible problem after they cut my prosthesis out of bone when my hips got infected. I was in such incredible pain that I had never felt before....and this was 6-8 weeks after my surgery. It is horrible when you KNOW you need to move to help prevent DVTs, and know that moving even to go to the bathroom is going to cause tremendous pain. I think by about 10-11 weeks after surgery, all narcotics were gone. then I had to have the other hip yanked out and I got to start all over again. This time, the surgeon used a lot more finesse and I was only on pain meds about 8 weeks. I am lucky in that my doctor trusted me enough to start tapering off narcotics when I could, rather than trying to tell me that I shouldn't be feeling that kind of pain.
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Post by bean29 on Mar 6, 2020 14:50:11 GMT -5
Acuzena,
I am sorry you have so much on your shoulders right now. If your kids are attending neighborhood schools, I would check with other parents in the neighborhood that drive their kids to school, to see if they can temporarily run your kids to school. DH used to give other kids in the neighborhood a ride if their parents had conflicts. DD once had her friend's Dad give her a ride to school when she missed the bus.
I know when I walk my Dogs in the am, I see quite a few cars running - lots of people seem to be doing school runs in the am. You also could hire someone to do your school runs for a few weeks - maybe another Mom or a retiree?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 6, 2020 15:14:26 GMT -5
My mom is only 62, works full time, and is about 30 mins away. Realized a couple days ago that neither his mom or sister have been in touch with us for about 3 weeks. Who does that? Having a good cry this morning which is probably exactly what i need. I do need to enlist more help than I have been lately. I was good at it at first but haven't asked enough lately particularly so I can focus on myself and work. Have you tried looking on Care.com? Sure it's another expense but at the moment you are drowning.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 6, 2020 19:25:37 GMT -5
Thanks to suggestions here I was able to set dd11 up for a sleepover and had dd7 go home with a friend whose mom will bring her home at 7.
I went out and picked up a very late lunch at 130 and also got another entree for dinner. I texted Dhs coteacher who came and picked him up for dinner.
This means when I finished work at 3 I was able to watch tv with dh. Now I have about 2 hours completely alone!
Dh and i talked calmly about the pain meds. He offered to stop them entirely if I asked him to. I said not at all just pay more attn and realize that I am only trying to help.
Nurse came and wound is close to being off vac - likely mon or weds.
He made progress finding us a refi option without escrow and will take on all the required paperwork. He also said he can step up more if I help him prioritize what is weighing on me.
Nothing is scheduled tomorrow except we are invited to a work party for dinner. All my closest work friends will be there so should be enjoyable. Hoping it is a sunny and warm day to be outside.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 6, 2020 19:46:38 GMT -5
Hospital bill came in today. $122k which ins negotiated down to $60k of which we owe $250 hospital copay and $800 deductible. I had put $800 in our FSA account knowing that DH will always hit his individual deductible because ostomy supplies cost about $300/month. Our family deductible is $1600.
There is a $301 charge listed as miscellaneous that insurance denied. I went on the hospital portal and told them they have to detail the charge and send it to insurance again if they want to get paid.
I can see on the ins site that they paid the entire $950 for the ambulance. I wasn't sure how that charge would work out.
Was interesting to glance thru the pages and pages of itemizations.
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Post by jerseygirl on Mar 6, 2020 20:56:27 GMT -5
Thanks to suggestions here I was able to set dd11 up for a sleepover and had dd7 go home with a friend whose mom will bring her home at 7. I went out and picked up a very late lunch at 130 and also got another entree for dinner. I texted Dhs coteacher who came and picked him up for dinner. This means when I finished work at 3 I was able to watch tv with dh. Now I have about 2 hours completely alone! Dh and i talked calmly about the pain meds. He offered to stop them entirely if I asked him to. I said not at all just pay more attn and realize that I am only trying to help. Nurse came and wound is close to being off vac - likely mon or weds. He made progress finding us a refi option without escrow and will take on all the required paperwork. He also said he can step up more if I help him prioritize what is weighing on me. Nothing is scheduled tomorrow except we are invited to a work party for dinner. All my closest work friends will be there so should be enjoyable. Hoping it is a sunny and warm day to be outside. Glad life is getting better, slowly but better
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Mar 12, 2020 12:47:39 GMT -5
DH was able to ditch the wound vac on Monday as wound has closed enough. Now we just put a wet bandage on it and can change it ourselves whenever he showers. This means a lot less tape pulling on his abdomen which I guess was causing more pain than any of us realized. He's virtually pain free now. This means the use of pain killers has become a non-issue.
Yesterday I asked him to look around and pick just one thing to help me out - he loaded the dishwasher and cleared the counters.
Wish I knew the right answer for the virus. DH is clearly immunocompromised right now but both the home health care nurse and my best friend who is an infection control nurse have been shrugging it off. I read about Italy and think what stops that from happening here. We will be home during spring break next week, but DD11 and I have tickets for a concert this Fri where there will be about 10k people. Wish it would get cancelled and take the decision out of my hands.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Mar 12, 2020 13:12:50 GMT -5
Great news, him getting off the wound vac!
In terms of the concert--what is the per capita rate of illness where you are so far? I'd factor that into any decision, and when I (probably) go be scrupulous about hand cleaning before, during and after event.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 12, 2020 13:27:15 GMT -5
Personally, I'd bail. Even if they did not get the disease, they become carriers to her DH and HE is immunocompromised.
I have questions as to how many carriers that are asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic that there are in the general population. I suspect it is much higher than anyone thought.
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