The Great Question of Our Age

[billisonboard]

The President of the United States of America has lead We the People to arguing over the question of whether or not The Speaker of The House of Representatives is guilty of a crime for tearing pieces of paper in half.


Think about it.



Let it sink in.

The President of the United States of America has lead We the People to arguing over the question of whether or not The Speaker of The House of Representatives is guilty of a crime for tearing pieces of paper in half.


Shame on us for allowing it to happen.

[busymom]

I guess the Republicans are bigger snowflakes than we imagined.  I can't even imagine getting upset about tearing up a copy of anything.  It's a COPY people.  Lighten up!  



Maybe they need a safe space until they calm down?    

[weltschmerz]

[billisonboard]

Yeah, but this is the President of the United States of America leading them there. 

[cktc]

I mean, he knows he's not supposed to rip things up.



www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/opinion/archives-document-destruction.html

President Trump has long made it a practice to tear up his papers and throw them away. It is a clear violation of the Presidential Records Act, which is supposed to prevent another Watergate-style cover-up. Workers in the White House records management office who used to tape these records together say they were fired without explanation.

[sesfw]

Actually I thought Nancy having a temper tantrum was hilarious.  Best laugh of the evening.

Didn't phase me one way or the other.

[kadee79]

Feb 9, 2020 13:31:39 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Actually I thought Nancy having a temper tantrum was hilarious.  Best laugh of the evening.

Didn't phase me one way or the other.

But it wasn't a "temper tantrum"...it was an "in kind" like the cartoon above...DT tears up our Constitution, Pelosi just gave him some of his own medicine....and he's having a fit over it...trying to make it into something it is not.

Maybe this example would explain it better for you....you have a child who bites everyone, you bite the child & it stops cause they got a taste of their own medicine & didn't like it.  Same principle! 
However, I'm not sure DT & his followers are smart enough to understand the message.

[tbop77]

I'm not sure I understand the question.  Shame of us for electing leaders (both sides) that have the mentality of middle-schoolers?  

[cktc]

DS wanted to paint on DD's painting and when we tried taking it from him he ripped it in a fit of rage. This 3 year old acting like he lives in D.C.

[billisonboard]

Feb 9, 2020 16:55:56 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

I'm not sure I understand the question.  Shame of us for electing leaders (both sides) that have the mentality of middle-schoolers?  

The question that wis being argued is whether or not The Speaker of the House of Representatives is guilty of committing a crime, as claimed by the President of the United States of America, for tearing sheets of paper in half.

[countrygirl2]

I say no, it was just a copy.

[Tennesseer]

It's not as if trump's SOTU speech isn't transcribed the following day in the news.   Nothing unique about Pelosi's copy.


New York Times: Full Transcript: Trump’s 2020 State of the Union Address

trump making a big deal about it is just to make the trumpers want more of his nonsense. trump could personally not care less about the ripped copy which pretty much defines anything trump does.

[hoops902]

Feb 9, 2020 15:23:52 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Feb 9, 2020 13:31:39 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Actually I thought Nancy having a temper tantrum was hilarious.  Best laugh of the evening.

Didn't phase me one way or the other.

But it wasn't a "temper tantrum"...it was an "in kind" like the cartoon above...DT tears up our Constitution, Pelosi just gave him some of his own medicine....and he's having a fit over it...trying to make it into something it is not.

Maybe this example would explain it better for you....you have a child who bites everyone, you bite the child & it stops cause they got a taste of their own medicine & didn't like it.  Same principle! 
However, I'm not sure DT & his followers are smart enough to understand the message.

Of course it was a tempter tantrum.  This is one of the maddening things about being an Independent...watching both sides of the aisle each have someone who throws hissyfits, and neither side seeming to recognize it when they complain about the other.  Watching Pelosi and Trump is like watching oversized toddlers throw fits while each of their parents mumbles under their breath about how horrible the other child behaves.

[sesfw]

Watching Pelosi and Trump is like watching oversized toddlers throw fits while each of their parents mumbles under their breath about how horrible the other child behaves.

Trump and Pelosi are two of a kind .......... and deserve each other.

[billisonboard]

Feb 10, 2020 11:12:45 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Watching Pelosi and Trump is like watching oversized toddlers throw fits while each of their parents mumbles under their breath about how horrible the other child behaves.

Trump and Pelosi are two of a kind .......... and deserve each other.

And if they were an old married couple we saw in a grocery store, we could leave it at that. But they are the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the United States. Are we going to decide we deserve better? It appears that GOP primary voters are deciding they are going to accept Trump's behavior.

[hoops902]

Feb 10, 2020 11:32:22 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 10, 2020 11:12:45 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Watching Pelosi and Trump is like watching oversized toddlers throw fits while each of their parents mumbles under their breath about how horrible the other child behaves.

Trump and Pelosi are two of a kind .......... and deserve each other.

And if they were an old married couple we saw in a grocery store, we could leave it at that. But they are the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the United States. Are we going to decide we deserve better? It appears that GOP primary voters are deciding they are going to accept Trump's behavior.

Let's be honest though, who else are they going to vote for in the GOP primaries?  Nobody else is really running.  

[mary2029]

Feb 10, 2020 11:37:58 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Feb 10, 2020 11:32:22 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Let's be honest though, who else are they going to vote for in the GOP primaries?  Nobody else is really running.  

I'm a Republican. I am going to vote for anybody but Trump.  Just because Trump might be the only one left running, doesn't mean I have to vote for him. If it has to be Weld, fine; otherwise I will write in Sanford, Kasich, or maybe Romney just to tick off Trump. I hope that more disgusted Americans would do so to send a message.

[hoops902]

Feb 10, 2020 12:44:05 GMT -5 mary2029 said:

Feb 10, 2020 11:37:58 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Let's be honest though, who else are they going to vote for in the GOP primaries?  Nobody else is really running.  

I'm a Republican. I am going to vote for anybody but Trump.  Just because Trump might be the only one left running, doesn't mean I have to vote for him. If it has to be Weld, fine; otherwise I will write in Sanford, Kasich, or maybe Romney just to tick off Trump. I hope that more disgusted Americans would do so to send a message.

And that works fine on an individual level, but as a group, nobody even remotely electable has entered the race.  

Everyone knows Trump is going to win the Republican nomination as it stands now (with essentially nobody running against him)...so any Republicans sick of Trump who refuse to vote for him are probably just going to save their time and stay home for primaries.

There are random, rebellious things you can do, but practically speaking there's only 1 person running for the GOP nomination at this point.  It's a spite move to vote for someone else, which is fine, but at the moment Republicans basically have 1 person.  That's different than say a situation where there are actual contenders putting their hat in the ring and people still voting Trump.  

[mary2029]

I agree I am being spiteful; I will be like the almost 1,000 Republicans in Iowa who voted for other candidates.  Yes, Trump is the only one really running and will win the Republican nomination. However, he only received 97% of the votes in Iowa and he didn't get all the delegates.  What would happen if that happened in NH, but instead he only received 95% of the votes? Nevada, only 93%?  You don't think this will make the news and piss him off?  I want him to worry about not getting reelected and worry about losing the senate. 

[hoops902]

Feb 10, 2020 13:04:30 GMT -5 mary2029 said:

I agree I am being spiteful; I will be like the almost 1,000 Republicans in Iowa who voted for other candidates.  Yes, Trump is the only one really running and will win the Republican nomination. However, he only received 97% of the votes in Iowa and he didn't get all the delegates.  What would happen if that happened in NH, but instead he only received 95% of the votes? Nevada, only 93%?  You don't think this will make the news and piss him off?  I want him to worry about not getting reelected and worry about losing the senate. 

That seems like a lot of people wasting a lot of their collective time in hopes that they'll slightly annoy someone who is already going to win anyways.  

If you really cared, aren't there a lot more productive things all of those same people could band together to do to ignite real change? (even if it's not political change)

[mary2029]

How long does it take to check a box and deposit it in the mailbox?  That doesn't sound like wasting time when there are going to be other people and things on the ballot. 

Real change? I am making real changes in my job, in my family, and in my community. Politics is not my thing. Like you said, I have three options:
* vote for Trump (which is accepting that I believe that his leadership is right for the US and the future),
* vote for anybody that isn't Trump, or
* not vote at all.  

I prefer to use the small voice that I have than to not use it at all. If I don't vote, then I shouldn't complain about the outcome.

Sorry hoops; I was more aggravated by the comment "It appears that GOP primary voters are deciding they are going to accept Trump's behavior" than your comment.  You got caught in the crossfire. 

[NastyWoman]

Feb 10, 2020 8:33:25 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Feb 9, 2020 15:23:52 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

But it wasn't a "temper tantrum"...it was an "in kind" like the cartoon above...DT tears up our Constitution, Pelosi just gave him some of his own medicine....and he's having a fit over it...trying to make it into something it is not.

Maybe this example would explain it better for you....you have a child who bites everyone, you bite the child & it stops cause they got a taste of their own medicine & didn't like it.  Same principle! 
However, I'm not sure DT & his followers are smart enough to understand the message.

Of course it was a tempter tantrum.  This is one of the maddening things about being an Independent...watching both sides of the aisle each have someone who throws hissyfits, and neither side seeming to recognize it when they complain about the other.  Watching Pelosi and Trump is like watching oversized toddlers throw fits while each of their parents mumbles under their breath about how horrible the other child behaves.

Really? To me a temper tantrum implies/includes a show of uncontrolled anger. I didn't see any of that

[hoops902]

Feb 10, 2020 13:29:17 GMT -5 mary2029 said:

How long does it take to check a box and deposit it in the mailbox?  That doesn't sound like wasting time when there are going to be other people and things on the ballot. 

Real change? I am making real changes in my job, in my family, and in my community. Politics is not my thing. Like you said, I have three options:
* vote for Trump (which is accepting that I believe that his leadership is right for the US and the future),
* vote for anybody that isn't Trump, or
* not vote at all.  

I prefer to use the small voice that I have than to not use it at all. If I don't vote, then I shouldn't complain about the outcome.

Sorry hoops; I was more aggravated by the comment "It appears that GOP primary voters are deciding they are going to accept Trump's behavior" than your comment.  You got caught in the crossfire. 

So I know this is a common refrain, but honestly, I feel like even if you DON'T vote, you can still complain about the CHOICES you were left with.  Realistic choices (yes, I know 3rd parties are technically choices, but not really).  If I told you that you could choose between getting punched in the face or punched in the stomach, you still get to complain even if you don't choose one and I pick for you.  They're both lousy choices, and you have a right to complain that other people are essentially limiting your choices to bad outcomes.

No need for apologies, I didn't take anything you said to be particularly angry or directed at me personally.

And in terms of sending things in...I wonder (honestly, i wonder, I have no idea how it would read if it happened) what would happen if a bunch of primary ballots came back without a Presidential candidate marked.  Would it read as nothing or as a specific commentary on Trump?  Primarily I'm looking at the "i just did it to make him mad"...I'd love to see a more concerted effort to pick someone specific and start writing them in.  

[hoops902]

Feb 10, 2020 14:07:26 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Feb 10, 2020 8:33:25 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Of course it was a tempter tantrum.  This is one of the maddening things about being an Independent...watching both sides of the aisle each have someone who throws hissyfits, and neither side seeming to recognize it when they complain about the other.  Watching Pelosi and Trump is like watching oversized toddlers throw fits while each of their parents mumbles under their breath about how horrible the other child behaves.

Really? To me a temper tantrum implies/includes a show of uncontrolled anger. I didn't see any of that

Temper tantrums aren't just anger, it's uncontrolled emotions (frustration, anger, sadness, fear, etc).  I'm not sure I've ever seen Pelosi where I thought she had any control of her emotions in general.  

[mary2029]

Feb 10, 2020 14:28:55 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Feb 10, 2020 13:29:17 GMT -5 mary2029 said:

How long does it take to check a box and deposit it in the mailbox?  That doesn't sound like wasting time when there are going to be other people and things on the ballot. 

Real change? I am making real changes in my job, in my family, and in my community. Politics is not my thing. Like you said, I have three options:
* vote for Trump (which is accepting that I believe that his leadership is right for the US and the future),
* vote for anybody that isn't Trump, or
* not vote at all.  

I prefer to use the small voice that I have than to not use it at all. If I don't vote, then I shouldn't complain about the outcome.

Sorry hoops; I was more aggravated by the comment "It appears that GOP primary voters are deciding they are going to accept Trump's behavior" than your comment.  You got caught in the crossfire. 

So I know this is a common refrain, but honestly, I feel like even if you DON'T vote, you can still complain about the CHOICES you were left with.  Realistic choices (yes, I know 3rd parties are technically choices, but not really).  If I told you that you could choose between getting punched in the face or punched in the stomach, you still get to complain even if you don't choose one and I pick for you.  They're both lousy choices, and you have a right to complain that other people are essentially limiting your choices to bad outcomes.

No need for apologies, I didn't take anything you said to be particularly angry or directed at me personally.

And in terms of sending things in...I wonder (honestly, i wonder, I have no idea how it would read if it happened) what would happen if a bunch of primary ballots came back without a Presidential candidate marked.  Would it read as nothing or as a specific commentary on Trump?  Primarily I'm looking at the "i just did it to make him mad"...I'd love to see a more concerted effort to pick someone specific and start writing them in.  

Yes, I can complain, just like the Democrats complain (or they should be complaining) about their choices. The majority of this board has been complaining for the last three years about Trump or they've been bashing people who support Trump. All I've seen as a result is that people have left or do not post as much anymore. How effective is that?  There has been a loss of diverse opinions and a lot of backslapping about how great and smart the remaining people are. Meanwhile, Trump has become more... Trumpish.  Everyone has got to pick their battles. Using your analogy, I would rather spend time bracing for the impact than whining about how unfair it is that I will get punched.  

From what I understand, the ballots are counted based on what is marked. If nothing is marked, then it just gets skipped and not recognized. For example, if 500 people submitted their ballots, 100 people voted for Trump and the rest didn't vote at all... 100% for Trump. If 100 of the 400 remaining people voted for Weld... 50% Trump/50% Weld.  I could be wrong though.  

[hoops902]

Feb 10, 2020 14:56:12 GMT -5 mary2029 said:

Feb 10, 2020 14:28:55 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

So I know this is a common refrain, but honestly, I feel like even if you DON'T vote, you can still complain about the CHOICES you were left with.  Realistic choices (yes, I know 3rd parties are technically choices, but not really).  If I told you that you could choose between getting punched in the face or punched in the stomach, you still get to complain even if you don't choose one and I pick for you.  They're both lousy choices, and you have a right to complain that other people are essentially limiting your choices to bad outcomes.

No need for apologies, I didn't take anything you said to be particularly angry or directed at me personally.

And in terms of sending things in...I wonder (honestly, i wonder, I have no idea how it would read if it happened) what would happen if a bunch of primary ballots came back without a Presidential candidate marked.  Would it read as nothing or as a specific commentary on Trump?  Primarily I'm looking at the "i just did it to make him mad"...I'd love to see a more concerted effort to pick someone specific and start writing them in.  

Yes, I can complain, just like the Democrats complain (or they should be complaining) about their choices. The majority of this board has been complaining for the last three years about Trump or they've been bashing people who support Trump. All I've seen as a result is that people have left or do not post as much anymore. How effective is that?  There has been a loss of diverse opinions and a lot of backslapping about how great and smart the remaining people are. Meanwhile, Trump has become more... Trumpish.  Everyone has got to pick their battles. Using your analogy, I would rather spend time bracing for the impact than whining about how unfair it is that I will get punched.  

From what I understand, the ballots are counted based on what is marked. If nothing is marked, then it just gets skipped and not recognized. For example, if 500 people submitted their ballots, 100 people voted for Trump and the rest didn't vote at all... 100% for Trump. If 100 of the 400 remaining people voted for Weld... 50% Trump/50% Weld.  I could be wrong though.  

I was thinking less about the % and more about what would get reported.  For instance, would anyone report that 500 ballots came in, 100 voted for Trump, and 400 abstained which might show a lack of support for Trump and entice another candidate to join?

[mary2029]

I don't see anybody spending the time/effort in finding out that level of detail. The news cycle runs way too fast and the average person does not have the ability to focus on anything outside of the sound bite of the hour. If detailed analysis was performed in 2016 prior to the election, Clinton might have paid more attention to a few key states rather than assuming the polls were correct. 

ETA:  Oh, I stand corrected. Media did cover that the turnout for Iowa was less than expected. 

[billisonboard]

Feb 10, 2020 11:37:58 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Feb 10, 2020 11:32:22 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And if they were an old married couple we saw in a grocery store, we could leave it at that. But they are the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the United States. Are we going to decide we deserve better? It appears that GOP primary voters are deciding they are going to accept Trump's behavior.

Let's be honest though, who else are they going to vote for in the GOP primaries?  Nobody else is really running.  

If early polling had suggested that there was a reasonable chance for someone else to win the nomination, there would be that someone.

McCarthy nearly upsets LBJ in New Hampshire primary: March 12, 1968

[billisonboard]

Feb 10, 2020 14:30:56 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Feb 10, 2020 14:07:26 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Really? To me a temper tantrum implies/includes a show of uncontrolled anger. I didn't see any of that

Temper tantrums aren't just anger, it's uncontrolled emotions (frustration, anger, sadness, fear, etc).  I'm not sure I've ever seen Pelosi where I thought she had any control of her emotions in general.  

I have worked with people who have no control of their emotions. None of them will come close to being elected Speaker of the US House of Representative.

[hoops902]

Feb 10, 2020 15:15:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 10, 2020 14:30:56 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Temper tantrums aren't just anger, it's uncontrolled emotions (frustration, anger, sadness, fear, etc).  I'm not sure I've ever seen Pelosi where I thought she had any control of her emotions in general.  

I have worked with people who have no control of their emotions. None of them will come close to being elected Speaker of the US House of Representative.

I'm sure none of the people you work with will come close to being elected Speaker.  What does that prove?  One was elected President.  

She either has no control and can't help herself.  Or she does have control and makes a conscious choice to act like that which would make her one of the dumbest people on the planet.  I think the former is more likely than the latter.