Addiction and Christmas and problems.

[bean29]

They will try to discharge him into your care or you in-law's care.  Right now he is eligible for a rehab or LTC facility type place b/c of the hospitalization.  If they manage to discharge him to your care, and your family finds they are unable to provide the care he needs, you will find out that because he was discharged, he no longer qualifies for rehab under Medicare rules, he will need another hospitalization of (3 days?).  They did this to my Mom, and she was very angry.  Dad's condition was such that he ended up back in the hospital in a short time (like less than a week).  

Don't give in.  Tell them they have to find a place for him, because your family has not been able to do so.

[azucena]

WI Beth - the hospital isn't going to let you know that you're not responsible because that's the easy path for them.

If he's not stable, they can't kick him out.  If he leaves against medical advice, his insurance doesn't have to cover the bills.

Be very, very careful and make sure DH knows to do the same and that he keeps running things by you BEFOREHAND.  It's tough because it's family, but you can't save him and he will drag you down.

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2020 16:18:21 GMT -5 finnime said:

Jul 16, 2020 15:56:24 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Right now, they're dumping that task on us. 

Drama's right--push back. Don't accept that burden. They have many resources that you do not. If being discharged to home on his own steam is not feasible, they'll find a place for him. You don't need to explain why you cannot do this yourselves--just say no, you can not.

Please, please, listen to this. Yes, they will make it seem like it’s the family’s responsibility to help, even if it means allowing him to live with. NO! That is exactly how I got myself into a bad situation that 2 years later, I’m not free of. Everything happened so fast, and I didn’t know any better. 

It’s very different when someone CAN get better and they’re doing all they can to get there. It’s totally different when you’re dealing with a person that isn’t even trying to help themself, and they expect, even try to demand sometimes, for you and everyone else around them to turn their worlds upside down to accommodate them and essentially enable them to continue engaging in the bad behaviors that got them all messed up in the first place. And then sometimes they have the nerve to have a bad attitude on top of it, like your BIL seems to have, and like *my* person does.

For the love of God and all that is Holy, DON’T DO IT!

[Wisconsin Beth]

Now L2 is making sounds about how this is just a break so she can regroup and it's not a breakup. 

Thank you all for the advice, etc.  It's really appreciated. 

[gs11rmb]

I'm beginning to think something is wrong with L2...

Next time she talks about being 'on a break' perhaps you should just yell at her "run Forrest, run"!

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 17, 2020 8:24:08 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I'm beginning to think something is wrong with L2...

Next time she talks about being 'on a break' perhaps you should just yell at her "run Forrest, run"!

codependent and enabling are her problems. 

[azucena]

WI Beth - think about how hard this is for you to watch and he's 'just' your BIL.  L2 loves him.  That's beyond complicated because it has to seem to her like she'd be leaving him when he was down and needed her most.  Maybe you can push her in the healthy direction to leave?  Obviously it's her choice but she likely needs support to make it.

[bean29]

Jul 17, 2020 8:44:49 GMT -5 azucena said:

WI Beth - think about how hard this is for you to watch and he's 'just' your BIL.  L2 loves him.  That's beyond complicated because it has to seem to her like she'd be leaving him when he was down and needed her most.  Maybe you can push her in the healthy direction to leave?  Obviously it's her choice but she likely needs support to make it.

What is the group for family members of Alcoholics?  Al-Anon?  Maybe push her in that direction and they can teach her coping skills so she is not co-dependent.  She doesn't necessarily have to leave, just not be his doormat so he can continue unhealthy habits.   She also can not be forced into agreeing to provide care she is not able to provide on her own, in a less than ideal environment (my parents spent at least $40,000 to get the house remodeled so my Dad could live at home and my Mom could be the caregiver).

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You can't make an enabler see they are enabling.   She is co-dependent on him.   If she wants to go down with the ship then that is her choice she is a grown adult.

What I WOULD tell her is if she is choosing to back that you and DH are done.  You are not running to her or his aid or bending over backwards to find a place to house him, get him medical care, drive him places or whatever else they think you owe them.  She is going to have to step up and do it all herself.  If she chooses to be with him then she chooses to accept responsibility for her.   There is no need for them to drag you guys even further into the muck than you already are.

And do this without guilt too.   If the hospital keeps trying to bully you turn it back around to L2.   Repeat repeat repeat.   You guys are already sucked into his vortex enough as it is.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I just texted her to remind her that she needs to take the time away from that she said she was taking; relax and breathe.  She said she only went in to hear what the social worker and doctor had to say to BIL. 

[laterbloomer]

Jul 17, 2020 8:44:49 GMT -5 azucena said:

WI Beth - think about how hard this is for you to watch and he's 'just' your BIL.  L2 loves him.  That's beyond complicated because it has to seem to her like she'd be leaving him when he was down and needed her most.  Maybe you can push her in the healthy direction to leave?  Obviously it's her choice but she likely needs support to make it.

Is there a screaming emoji?

[laterbloomer]

Jul 17, 2020 13:43:38 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I just texted her to remind her that she needs to take the time away from that she said she was taking; relax and breathe.  She said she only went in to hear what the social worker and doctor had to say to BIL. 

Run Forest Run! You can"t save her! Save yourself, don't let her suck you into her drama.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Last night DH had a long call with L2.  He's got notes and phone numbers and stuff.  I'm not sure how far he'll get without a Medical POA but at least BIL does have one.  MIL and L2 are listed on it. 

BIL is supposed to move to the transplant floor, either last night or today.  All rehab/pt/ot places are refusing BIL.  Supposedly the hospital can release him as long as he's medically stable and "mobile"  Mobile apparently means ably to get himself to the bathroom and out of the house if there's a fire. 

The liver doctors are flat out saying he will be in and out of the hospital for 3-24 months.  That they'll stick him on the transplant list but until his MELD gets to 30+; nothing happens and then he's bumped higher on the list due to death being imminent. 

L2 is apparently thinking that BIL can go to MIL's house at some point.  I told DH he might have to put his foot down and say "No."  His dad has bad hips and doesn't move well.  MIL has CHF and her liver isn't in great shape either.  If BIL can care for himself - showers and personal stuff; maybe.  But last time BIL was released from the hospital, he couldn't get out of bed. 

My younger sister is a lawyer and a nurse.  We're going to ask her to talk to DH about what to pushback on.  I think the no rehab is BS myself.  DH is talking to his boss, who's brother is/was an alcoholic; got a new liver; and 5 years later started drinking again.  She's been thru this and gives DH support and info.

Oh, and BIL has been sober since Dec. 21st or so.  So he's got roughly 7 months today.  Granted, he's been hospitalized for a chunk of it. 

Oh, funny note to end.  BIL and L2 were discussing his finances.  BIL suggested his sell his house.  L2 asked where he'd live.  Dead silence. 

We're all assuming he thought she'd volunteer to let him move in with her.  And she didn't. 

[gs11rmb]

I’m glad L2 is finally showing some sense!

I hadn’t realized that your BIL has been sober for 7 months. I thought he’d been drinking in between hospitalization. That’s actually a good sign. Do you think he’s committed to remaining sober or he just feels so bad right now that it’s not appealing?

[Wisconsin Beth]

I think there's a combo of reasons as to why he's not drinking.  But no, I don't think he's committed to being sober yet.  But I'm also not someone he confides in so I could easily be wrong. 

[buystoys]

So glad to hear L2 didn't volunteer her home!

Hope you can find someplace willing to take him.  I don't think he can live alone from the sounds of it.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I reminded L2 that she can block/do not disturb BIL.  Esp. when he's sending abusive texts at 2am.  Because that's a choice he making- to pick up the phone and text.  Or to not put the phone down.  He also told her that once he got home, he was going to drink himself to death.  I told her to pass that on to his Pastor, who's visiting him this afternoon, so he can try to talk to BIL about it.  I told DH that if he's serious, it needs to be reported so he can get help.  If he's not serious, it needs to be reported so he won't keep playing that card to L2. 

DH did talk with BIL a bit today.  BIL ended up hanging up on him.  BIL is convinced he's leaving the hospital today.  Um, not as far as any of us know.  But DH did get the info he needed to start the disability forms for BIL's work. 

[finnime]

What a messy trial for your family. It strikes me that DBIL's blood sugars having been so out of control does not indicate medically stable.

THe hospital can not require any family member to care for a patient after discharge. And it is up to the hospital to find suitable housing/care plan for the discharged patient. If they deem him able to care for himself in his own home, so be it. But he'll be back to the hospital soon. Hospitals get charged with patient dumping if they discharge patients to unsuitable settings.

[Wisconsin Beth]

L2 blocked BIL last night.  She missed 8 texts and 2 phone calls, she let me know this morning.  I'm hoping she got an adequate amount of sleep. 

There's apparently 2 places that will take BIL, one is a basic rehab/pt/ot type place and I think the other one works with transplant patients, it sounds like we're waiting on that one for confirmation as it's preferable for his issues. 

[buystoys]

I'm happy to hear L2 blocked him!  She needs her own space and rest.

Keeping my fingers crossed that you can get him placed quickly!

[laterbloomer]

He's been sober that long and still being that much of an asshat?? I thought some of that was withdrawal. As they say, you can sober up a horse thief but he's still a horse thief.
Continuing to hope for the best for you guys.

[vonna]

Jul 24, 2020 11:15:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

He's been sober that long and still being that much of an asshat?[img src="https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/idunno.gif" class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png" alt=""]? I thought some of that was withdrawal. As they say, you can sober up a horse thief but he's still a horse thief.
Continuing to hope for the best for you guys.

There's a condition caused by cirrhosis known as "hepatic encephalopathy" -- basically, a damaged liver cannot filter toxins out of the blood, so they reach the brain and cause cognitive/personality/motor issues.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 24, 2020 12:44:59 GMT -5 vonna said:

Jul 24, 2020 11:15:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

He's been sober that long and still being that much of an asshat?[img src="https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/idunno.gif" class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png" alt=""]? I thought some of that was withdrawal. As they say, you can sober up a horse thief but he's still a horse thief.
Continuing to hope for the best for you guys.

There's a condition caused by cirrhosis known as "hepatic encephalopathy" -- basically, a damaged liver cannot filter toxins out of the blood, so they reach the brain and cause cognitive/personality/motor issues.

Yeah, that's what's going on with BIL.  I do think that him picking up his phone between midnight-6am is a choice though, and he's an asshat for doing that. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

So last week BIL was moved to the suburbs for rehab/pt/ot.  He's apparently much happier there than at the hospital.  No visitors allowed so DH is trying to work with him over his room phone.  There's something wrong with his cell phone but no one seems to know what.  I'm guessing he picked up a virus from a porn site but that's just my cynical side showing...

Friday was a deadline for BIL to let the school system know if he was coming back or not.  I don't think he turned it in so he's got 8 days of FMLA left and then he needs to cover his COBRA payments.  I did suggest to DH that he call the main office and ask for an extension.  I'm guessing that COBRA is going to be about $2K a month, which is probably going to trigger a new spiral when BIL hears it. 

In a few weeks, we're supposed to have the family meeting with all the medical staff to go over transplant stuff.  It's estimated to be a 3 hour meeting. 

I did have a mostly relaxing weekend in Door Co. with a bunch of my family.  I'm not real mobile right now so my sister and nieces were awesome about doing stuff with my kids.  DH was great with DS too.  They climbed cedar trees and swingset poles.  And DH supervised DS in the pool area.  It was good to see/hear them bonding. 

[gs11rmb]

Aug 3, 2020 11:25:40 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

So last week BIL was moved to the suburbs for rehab/pt/ot.  He's apparently much happier there than at the hospital.  No visitors allowed so DH is trying to work with him over his room phone.  There's something wrong with his cell phone but no one seems to know what.  I'm guessing he picked up a virus from a porn site but that's just my cynical side showing...

Friday was a deadline for BIL to let the school system know if he was coming back or not.  I don't think he turned it in so he's got 8 days of FMLA left and then he needs to cover his COBRA payments.  I did suggest to DH that he call the main office and ask for an extension.  I'm guessing that COBRA is going to be about $2K a month, which is probably going to trigger a new spiral when BIL hears it. 

In a few weeks, we're supposed to have the family meeting with all the medical staff to go over transplant stuff.  It's estimated to be a 3 hour meeting. 

I did have a mostly relaxing weekend in Door Co. with a bunch of my family.  I'm not real mobile right now so my sister and nieces were awesome about doing stuff with my kids.  DH was great with DS too.  They climbed cedar trees and swingset poles.  And DH supervised DS in the pool area.  It was good to see/hear them bonding. 

Is COBRA based on the amount of medical assistance a person needs?  I had to lay-off someone last week (I'm so sad about it she's a great performer) and COBRA is going to be $250-$325 depending on the which of the two plans she chooses.  Why would it be $2,000 for your BIL who doesn't have to provide insurance for anyone else?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Aug 3, 2020 14:57:16 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Aug 3, 2020 11:25:40 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

So last week BIL was moved to the suburbs for rehab/pt/ot.  He's apparently much happier there than at the hospital.  No visitors allowed so DH is trying to work with him over his room phone.  There's something wrong with his cell phone but no one seems to know what.  I'm guessing he picked up a virus from a porn site but that's just my cynical side showing...

Friday was a deadline for BIL to let the school system know if he was coming back or not.  I don't think he turned it in so he's got 8 days of FMLA left and then he needs to cover his COBRA payments.  I did suggest to DH that he call the main office and ask for an extension.  I'm guessing that COBRA is going to be about $2K a month, which is probably going to trigger a new spiral when BIL hears it. 

In a few weeks, we're supposed to have the family meeting with all the medical staff to go over transplant stuff.  It's estimated to be a 3 hour meeting. 

I did have a mostly relaxing weekend in Door Co. with a bunch of my family.  I'm not real mobile right now so my sister and nieces were awesome about doing stuff with my kids.  DH was great with DS too.  They climbed cedar trees and swingset poles.  And DH supervised DS in the pool area.  It was good to see/hear them bonding. 

Is COBRA based on the amount of medical assistance a person needs?  I had to lay-off someone last week (I'm so sad about it she's a great performer) and COBRA is going to be $250-$325 depending on the which of the two plans she chooses.  Why would it be $2,000 for your BIL who doesn't have to provide insurance for anyone else?

I guessed.  About 15 years ago, my Mom's COBRA would have been $1800 a month.  I assumed it had gone up.  Dh talked to someone and it's actually going to be around 800-900, depending on the plan.  We're not sure if he was covering DN#6 or not.  I know that if I was the original L, I'd be covering DN#6 and not assuming BIL would stay on top of bills and things.

[seriousthistime]

The COBRA premiums are supposedly based on a percentage (102%, I think) of the total monthly premium paid by the employer AND the employee while the person is still employed.  Sticker shock makes it seem so high because the employer usually pays most of the cost, and the employee pays relatively little on a group plan. So if the employee (while employed) is paying, say, 20% of the total cost, there's real sticker shock when he has to pay 102% and the employer is paying nothing. 

 

[Wisconsin Beth]

He's being released from the rehab/pt/ot place tomorrow.  Supposedly he's able to move around in a walker and take care of his personal needs. 

Family meeting is set for 9/3.  I think I'm just going to take the whole day off. 

[andi9899]

Aug 3, 2020 21:11:01 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Aug 3, 2020 14:57:16 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Is COBRA based on the amount of medical assistance a person needs?  I had to lay-off someone last week (I'm so sad about it she's a great performer) and COBRA is going to be $250-$325 depending on the which of the two plans she chooses.  Why would it be $2,000 for your BIL who doesn't have to provide insurance for anyone else?

I guessed.  About 15 years ago, my Mom's COBRA would have been $1800 a month.  I assumed it had gone up.  Dh talked to someone and it's actually going to be around 800-900, depending on the plan.  We're not sure if he was covering DN#6 or not.  I know that if I was the original L, I'd be covering DN#6 and not assuming BIL would stay on top of bills and things.

Can he get Medicaid?

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'm not sure.  I'll ask DH.  Wisconsin didn't expand anything when ACA gave us the option so I'm not sure what we've got.  I've been lucky and never needed to know.