U.S. Multinationals Bring Home Cash, Dodge $25 Bil

[decoy409]

Say, it is true! BIG PROFITS! Quote: Bloomberg, Dodging Repatriation Tax Lets U.S. Companies Bring Home Cash, by Jesse Drucker: At the White House on Dec. 15, business executives asked President Obama for a tax holiday that would help them tap more than $1 trillion of offshore earnings, much of it sitting in island tax havens. The money -- including hundreds of billions in profits that U.S. companies attribute to overseas subsidiaries to avoid taxes -- is supposed to be taxed at up to 35% when it’s brought home, or “repatriated.” Executives including John T. Chambers of Cisco Systems Inc. say a tax break would return a flood of cash and boost the economy. What nobody’s saying publicly is that U.S. multinationals are already finding legal ways to avoid that tax. Over the years, they’ve brought cash home, tax-free, employing strategies with nicknames worthy of 1970s conspiracy thrillers -- including “the Killer B” and “the Deadly D.” Merck & Co Inc., the second-largest drugmaker in the U.S., last year brought more than $9 billion from abroad without paying any U.S. tax to help finance its acquisition of Schering- Plough Corp., securities filings show. Merck is also appealing a federal judge’s 2009 finding that Schering-Plough owed taxes on $690 million it had earlier brought home from overseas tax-free. The largest drugmaker, Pfizer Inc., imported more than $30 billion from offshore in connection with its acquisition of Wyeth last year, while taking steps to minimize the tax hit on its publicly reported profit. Disclosures in Switzerland and Delaware by Eli Lilly & Co. show the Indianapolis-based pharmaceutical company carried out many of the steps for a tax-free importation of foreign cash after its roughly $6 billion purchase of ImClone Systems Inc. in 2008. “Sophisticated U.S. companies are routinely repatriating hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign earnings and paying trivially small U.S. taxes on those repatriations,” said Edward D. Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles. “They devote enormous resources first to moving income to tax havens, and then to bringing those profits back to the U.S. at the lowest possible tax cost.” With the exception of the Schering-Plough case, no authority has accused Merck or Pfizer or Lilly of paying less tax than they should have. While corporations have no obligation to pay any more than the legal minimum, “the question is what should that minimum be?” said Kleinbard, a former corporate tax attorney at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP and former chief of staff at the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation. U.S. companies overall use various repatriation strategies to avoid about $25 billion a year in federal income taxes, he said. Thought we were trying to heal this place? Think again. ^{_{offtopic-do-not-remove:hâ70hHòNuXBXyáFáp2ãùs3â1jEFXmC8éeüòá}}

[djrick]

At least half, maybe 2/3 of the unemployment is structural, not cyclical. Congress will ignore this semi-permanent condition caused by shipping jobs overseas. The GOP won't even allow ending the tax breaks for companies that outsource US jobs for corporate/bankster greed.

[decoy409]

Just amazing dj how outsourcing and them bringing the cake back as it stands. Can you say 'kick em' when their down'

[comokate]

Just giving you a little bump ;-)

[djrick]

Andy Grove: How America Can Create Jobs
The former Intel chief says "job-centric" leadership and incentives are needed to expand U.S. domestic employment again

www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_28/b4186048358596.htm

"I fled Hungary as a young man in 1956 to come to the U.S. Growing up in the Soviet bloc, I witnessed first-hand the perils of both government overreach and a stratified population. Most Americans probably aren't aware that there was a time in this country when tanks and cavalry were massed on Pennsylvania Avenue to chase away the unemployed. It was 1932; thousands of jobless veterans were demonstrating outside the White House. Soldiers with fixed bayonets and live ammunition moved in on them, and herded them away from the White House. In America! Unemployment is corrosive. If what I'm suggesting sounds protectionist, so be it. "

[decoy409]

dj, very good article. I like it because it points directly to keeping a structured society going,

Quote: Such evidence stares at us from the performance of several Asian countries in the past few decades. These countries seem to understand that job creation must be the No. 1 objective of state economic policy.

Too bad that many here will have to learn the hard way that almighty point quoted above.

[decoy409]

Say, maybe Ny and others can borrow some of this!

[Virgil Showlion]

This is where the "cash sitting on the sidelines" pro-equities argument gets dicey. Putting that cash to use requires repatriating it.

[decoy409]

Sorry Virgil, that stays in hand right where it is. By the time that thorn is pulled from the giants foot (as it was established not to be) this bannana boat becomes just that.
Look on the bright side Virgil! I will buy all of us a straw hat to pick with!

[decoy409]

I think I like the FACT that the same ones PUMPING are the same ones PRAISING these.
It's good to know what side of the fence others are on.

[Deleted]

And people wonder why jobs are becoming scarce....

The county, state, and federal governments ALL have their hand out...saying gimme...i want part of that. They are so broke that any profits earned anywhere become part of their domain.

So...if a multinational corporation produces a product in another country....sells the product in said country.....collects the money in that country's currency.....this somehow becomes PROFIT that this government wants a piece of....

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

Yes...i know that some companies have sent jobs overseas...we ALL know that....and we all know why.



Go ahead...flame away

[decoy409]

Only FLAME I have is you missed the whole issue in your words.

Quote: Yes...i know that some companies have sent jobs overseas...we ALL know that....and we all know why.

Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=610#ixzz1C4eXAqKi

Some? Snap out of it or quit poluting the board with B.S. make that over 10,500 in the past 10 years alone from the U.S. up and out of town.

I like the part how you meaningless defend the b.s. by crying a little yet offer '0''

[Deleted]

Yes decoy...we know...

Only YOUR opinion should ever be heard....only YOU have all the pertinent information

Only YOU see the whole picture

My meaningless BS per you has no place on this board....

Yeah...i get it....

and you wonder why YOU get attacked in what you say

[rovo]

gdgyva, You missed an item in your post #10. The companies have also paid local income tax on the money made in other countries.

[Deleted]

Very true Rovo

Thank you for pointing that out....

I am not saying all corporate profits are like this....but I do see a problem when so many want a piece of something that THEY had no part in making....

Just doesnt seem right...or feel right

[comokate]

"Multi-national companies" are comprised of individuals. Individuals, some of whom, appear to have no loyalty or allegiance to anything save personal gain. They use the infrastructure ( paid for by citizen's taxes), natural resources ( allegedly owned by the citizens), brain power ( brains that were educated with the assistance of tax dollars)and even the lives ( of young soldiers defending their corporate interests) of their host countries, yet somehow feel completely entitled to plunder, pillage, parasitically suck profits without the slightest indication of possessing a guilty conscience for doing so.
It begs the question; "what have we become?". Are we a nation, a civilization, with a sense of national identity, of belonging? Is it "we the people" or is it "every man for himself". If it is the latter, it does not sound much like a civilization. Instead it sounds like the perfect feeding/breeding ground for sociopaths ( not the "pillars" of any society).

Dr. Hare's Checklist (Sociopathic Traits)

1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM -- the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Sociopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A sociopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.

2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH -- a grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Sociopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Sociopaths often have low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.

4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.

5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS- the use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and un empathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

7. SHALLOW AFFECT -- emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE -- an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.

11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR -- a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.

12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -- a variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol use, and running away from home.

13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS -- an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.

14. IMPULSIVITY -- the occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.

15. IRRESPONSIBILITY -- repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.

16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS -- a failure to accept responsibility for one's actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.

17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS -- a lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.

18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY -- behavior problems between the ages of 13-18; mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects of antagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous, ruthless tough-mindedness.

19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE -- a revocation of probation or other conditional release due to technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation, or failing to appear.

20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY -- a diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes.

www.sociopathicstyle.com/traits/classic.htm

Sociopaths are overrepresented ( greater than the statistical norm) in the field of law, politics and the board rooms of large corporations.
Though they represent less than 5% of the general population, they are the cause of much misery and harm to the majority. When the remaining 95% of the population shakes off the denial, apathy, and grief of their losses and move into the anger stage, there will be no "gated community" safe enough for those that caused the harm.

[decoy409]

Como, good evenng to you! Why that is a interesting medical breakdown. You sum things up quite well at the start. It's the me,me,me. I still prefer to call them Kleenex hands as they hold no accountability as you have pointed out. Is'nt it great Como, the land of Freedom! For about 10% in this country.

[Deleted]

We are talking about corporate profits....and the government wanting a piece of the action...the money wasnt earned here, or paid here....the products were not built here....uncle sam should have NONE of that money

But since you brought it up....

Overrepresented? What percentage would you say? 10% 20% 30% higher?

Is it POSSIBLE that it takes a certain personality traits to be CEO of a multinational company? Ruthless? Cunning? Greedy? Isnt it funny that the most successful people have those traits....the take no prisoners type of attitude

In order to compete at the HIGHEST level, you have to be one of the best....

Is it possible that corporate boards HIRE people knowing that they have these traits....because these are the people that get the job done...the ones that offer no excuses

Como...we will never agree...your liberal views are slanted towards communism....or socialism

Not everyone IS equal....in intelligence, or wealth, or stature....and everyone is not entitled to everything being handed to them

Hard work and intelligence has to be the equalizers....and the only thing this country promises is a chance to pursue happiness...it grants nothing...and shouldnt

[Deleted]

Decoy

Maybe it is TIME you aspired to be more like them....you know....successful

[decoy409]

I don't measure success by pissing on others that have their back turned.

[comokate]

Jan 25, 2011 20:52:22 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

We are talking about corporate profits....and the government wanting a piece of the action...the money wasnt earned here, or paid here....the products were not built here....uncle sam should have NONE of that money

But since you brought it up....

Overrepresented? What percentage would you say? 10% 20% 30% higher?

Is it POSSIBLE that it takes a certain personality traits to be CEO of a multinational company? Ruthless? Cunning? Greedy? Isnt it funny that the most successful people have those traits....the take no prisoners type of attitude

In order to compete at the HIGHEST level, you have to be one of the best....














Is it possible that corporate boards HIRE people knowing that they have these traits....because these are the people that get the job done...the ones that offer no excuses0.


Como...we will never agree...your liberal views are slanted towards communism....or socialism

Not everyone IS equal....in intelligence, or wealth, or stature....and everyone is not entitled to everything being handed to them

Hard work and intelligence has to be the equalizers....and the only thing this country promises is a chance to pursue happiness...it grants nothing...and shouldnt

I could really care less if you "agree" with me or not. You have clearly indicated that you feel "winning", at whatever cost to innocent bystanders or a society at large, is justified. I'm sure a large percentage of any given prison population would agree with you. However I feel that a leech on society, no matter how grandly dressed, is still a parasite.
Your assessment of me of having a "liberal slant", because I feel that a decent society does not encourage/reward...how did you put it?.. "cunning, ruthless greedy" behavior, is incorrect. It's called having a sense of morality that is not influenced by personal gain. No society can last long destroying it's own people, and I'm not the only one that feels/thinks this way.

"Silicon Valley is a community with a strong tradition of engineering, and engineers are a peculiar breed. They are eager to solve whatever problems they encounter. If profit margins are the problem, we go to work on margins, with exquisite focus. Each company, ruggedly individualistic, does its best to expand efficiently and improve its own profitability. However, our pursuit of our individual businesses, which often involves transferring manufacturing and a great deal of engineering out of the country, has hindered our ability to bring innovations to scale at home. Without scaling, we don't just lose jobs—we lose our hold on new technologies. Losing the ability to scale will ultimately damage our capacity to innovate.

The story comes to mind of an engineer who was to be executed by guillotine. The guillotine was stuck, and custom required that if the blade didn't drop, the condemned man was set free. Before this could happen, the engineer pointed with excitement to a rusty pulley, and told the executioner to apply some oil there. Off went his head.

We got to our current state as a consequence of many of us taking actions focused on our own companies' next milestones. An example: Five years ago a friend joined a large VC firm as a partner. His responsibility was to make sure that all the startups they funded had a "China strategy," meaning a plan to move what jobs they could to China. He was going around with an oil can, applying drops to the guillotine in case it was stuck. We should put away our oil cans. VCs should have a partner in charge of every startup's "U.S. strategy."

The first task is to rebuild our industrial commons. We should develop a system of financial incentives: Levy an extra tax on the product of offshored labor. (If the result is a trade war, treat it like other wars—fight to win.) Keep that money separate. Deposit it in the coffers of what we might call the Scaling Bank of the U.S. and make these sums available to companies that will scale their American operations. Such a system would be a daily reminder that while pursuing our company goals, all of us in business have a responsibility to maintain the industrial base on which we depend and the society whose adaptability—and stability—we may have taken for granted....
...Every day, that Palo Alto restaurant where I met the Chinese venture capitalists is full of technology executives and entrepreneurs. Many of them are my friends. I understand the technological challenges they face, along with the financial pressure they're under from directors and shareholders. Can we expect them to take on yet another assignment, to work on behalf of a loosely defined community of companies, employees, and employees yet to be hired? To do so is undoubtedly naïve. Yet the imperative for change is real and the choice is simple. If we want to remain a leading economy, we change on our own, or change will continue to be forced upon us. "
Andy Grove, senior adviser to Intel, was the company's chief executive officer or chairman from 1987 until 2005

www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_28/b4186048358596.htm



“Researchers Paul Babiak and Robert Hare have long studied psychopaths. Hare, the author of Without Conscience, is a world-renowned expert on psychopathy, and Babiak is an industrial-organizational psychologist. Recently the two came together to study how psychopaths operate in corporations, and the results were surprising. They found that it's exactly the modern, open, more flexible corporate world, in which high risks can equal high profits, that attracts psychopaths. They may enter as rising stars and corporate saviors, but all too soon they're abusing the trust of colleagues, manipulating supervisors, and leaving the workplace in shambles.”




www.snakesinsuits.com/


www.bclocalnews.com/surrey_area/peacearchnews/news/112674894.html


"Maybe you are someone who craves money and power, and though you have no vestige of conscience, you do have a magnificent IQ. You have the driving nature and the intellectual capacity to pursue tremendous wealth and influence, and you are in no way moved by the nagging voice of conscience that prevents other people from doing everything and anything they have to do to succeed. You choose business, politics, the law, banking or international development, or any of a broad array of other power professions, and you pursue your career with a cold passion that tolerates none of the usual moral or legal encumbrances. When it is expedient, you doctor the accounting and shred the evidence, you stab your employees and your clients (or your constituency) in the back, marry for money, tell lethal premeditated lies to people who trust you, attempt to ruin colleagues who are powerful or eloquent, and simply steamroll over groups who are dependent and voiceless. And all of this you do with the exquisite freedom that results from having no conscience whatsoever. "
www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/spath.htm

The greatest fear of sociopaths is being "outed" for what they are. The checklist developed by Dr. Robert Hare is considered the gold standard for assessing the personality disorder. If a person meets much of the criteria the chances are good that person may be a sociopath. No matter how well dressed they are-

[kman]

No such thing as a nice billionaire...

[comokate]

Jan 25, 2011 23:39:44 GMT -5 kman said:

No such thing as a nice billionaire...

sure there is

[kman]

Benevolent..yes..Generous ..yes...but generating that kind of wealth requires stepping on some necks..It's called tough business decisions.

[comokate]

Jan 26, 2011 0:00:28 GMT -5 kman said:

Benevolent..yes..Generous ..yes...but generating that kind of wealth requires stepping on some necks..It's called tough business decisions.

"Tough" is not the same as ruthless, greedy or immoral.

How much is "enough" ??

Two mansions? Four mansions? More?
Shower curtains that cost more than what the majority of people take home in a year?
Living with tremendous excess knowing full well there are children and elderly people in host countries going to bed hungry is...something to be emulated??? What is the dollar amount needed for losing one's compassion? Integrity? Honesty?
If "stepping on necks" is justified in order to be a "billionaire", why expect anyone to have any social decorum whatsoever? What's the point of having a justice system? Why bother with prisons...or is that just for "poor folk" ? Heck, if winning at all costs is *really* the "ideal" of our society,why even give lip service to religion or volunteering...


edited for spelling error-

[Deleted]

Because it is still a country of laws....and if you break the law, you SHOULD have to pay for it

But being legal...and being moral are two completely different things...corporate leaders follow the letter of the law to increase their market share and profits...and those that dont are out on their ass in a heartbeat...if you want changes....get the laws changed which is what i have been saying all along....

In your utopian society greed wouldnt exist...and the world is one happy picnic

Hate to say it but Gecko was right in a lot of ways. Greed is good. It seperates the wheat from the chaff....

What is your definition of "tough"? How do you deal with a competitor who just opened up a business down the street...and is now cutting your sales and profits by 60%

You thinks he wants to "play" nice? Business is cut throat...always has been...always will be. The saying that only the strong survive is very accurate.

I know...it is not the "nice" thing to do.....i am a really nice guy....until i am NOT....at that point all bets are off...and i am out to rip out someones heart....that is a current day business leader....and most if honest...would say the same thing

and btw...honesty and integrity are two of my best traits....but benevolence and compassion i cannot afford

[decoy409]

Give it a break already. You are talking in circles.

Quote: In your utopian society greed wouldnt exist...and the world is one happy picnic

Decoy says: so then you just throw your own logs in and help it to continue,

Quote: I know...it is not the "nice" thing to do.....i am a really nice guy....until i am NOT....at that point all bets are off...and i am out to rip out someones heart....that is a current day business leader....and most if honest...would say the same thing

Decoy says: but I really enjoyed this part,

Quote: But being legal...and being moral are two completely different things...corporate leaders follow the letter of the law to increase their market share and profits...and those that dont are out on their ass in a heartbeat...if you want changes....get the laws changed which is what i have been saying all along....

Now if you REALLY CARED, than you would be advocating as to the TRAIL of the mess and who is who, how they came together, and now that they are, the pack is the pack and not you, me or anybody else of PEON clout is going to change it.

But that so many have simply abandoned for the sole purpose of 'keeping up with the jones next door.'

You know, Busy,Busy,Busy while others worked.

[decoy409]

Don't like that PUMPS above hey?

[Deleted]

huh?

I know english is difficult for you....

But making sense in a post would be a good start

[decoy409]

Save it PUMPS. Or should I refer to you as Baby Boy? School time for you, your little yellow bus should be their for you any moment!

Here is pumps last attempt to justify:

Give it a break already. You are talking in circles.

Quote: In your utopian society greed wouldnt exist...and the world is one happy picnic

Decoy says: so then you just throw your own logs in and help it to continue,

Quote: I know...it is not the "nice" thing to do.....i am a really nice guy....until i am NOT....at that point all bets are off...and i am out to rip out someones heart....that is a current day business leader....and most if honest...would say the same thing

Decoy says: but I really enjoyed this part,

Quote: But being legal...and being moral are two completely different things...corporate leaders follow the letter of the law to increase their market share and profits...and those that dont are out on their ass in a heartbeat...if you want changes....get the laws changed which is what i have been saying all along....

Now if you REALLY CARED, than you would be advocating as to the TRAIL of the mess and who is who, how they came together, and now that they are, the pack is the pack and not you, me or anybody else of PEON clout is going to change it.

But that so many have simply abandoned for the sole purpose of 'keeping up with the jones next door.'

You know, Busy,Busy,Busy while others worked.