Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 7, 2011 12:24:15 GMT -5
Well said, tbird.
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Post by lisabelle on Apr 7, 2011 12:33:04 GMT -5
I knew I didn't want to have children and after my divorce three years ago I didn't want to date a man with kids and then I met a really great guy and he has 4. The youngest will be graduating high school this year. I get along great with all 4 and am glad they are older. I don't think I could handle a life with him if they were younger and he was still raising them. Likewise, if I did have a child that was under 16 he would not have dated me because he's done the daddy thing and didn't want to have that kind of responsibility of raising more children.
At first I did think of it as a deal breaker, but there are many more positives with our relationship and am happy I gave it a chance.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 7, 2011 13:08:49 GMT -5
Not having been in the situation it's purely hypothetical, but I believe that I would. As a child I assumed I would adopt/foster children rather than 'have' my own. My mothers first husband passed away when my sister was 3. She met my dad through mutual friends a couple years later, and married when my sister was 7. My sister was not an easy child. My mom thinks that she held onto a belief that her dad would have been better, but my mom is convinced that they would have fought much more because they were so similar and stubborn. So I know it isn't all roses and sunshine, and sometimes best case scenario is just for people to get along even if a strong bond never forms. I would only date someone with kids who had similar priorities as me. No over night guests when kids are home, taking it slow to introduce the kids to the SO, and lots of talking to the kids about their feelings. My mom did ask my sister if she would be okay with her marrying my dad, and my sister thought that sounded great. She just didn't realize that meant my dad would be moving in...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 7, 2011 14:05:23 GMT -5
After my ex left me with three kids barely under six, I told my Dad that I could never marry a man with kids. Despite having three of my own LOL. As bad as I feel about admitting it, I have zero interest in dating someone with kids. That is actually one of the things that led me to start my thread. My mom recently told me I won't be single long, that I will meet a nice guy with kids and get married. All I could think is that I have enough problems I don't want to add more kids to the mix. But, then I don't know that a guy without kids would be interested in taking on my kids & situation, so I think I am in a no-win situation. Now, should the right guy come along with some good kids & not much drama, maybe my view will change. But, right now I'm pretty much assuming that I will be single for a very long time (which bothered my mother a great deal when I told her).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 16:21:38 GMT -5
I never thought about kids when I was dating. I guess it wasn't a deal breaker, because my now DH has 2 from his first marriage. I remember when he told me. It was the third date and he was so nervous. I was 22 at the time and I remember thinking "what does it matter, this relationship is only going to last 3 months." That was 12 years ago.
My mom went mental. She said I needed to stop dating him, because I would always be second to his first family and would become bitter about it. It has been fine. The kids are now adults. There was never any "babymammadrama." Dh and the ex had already worked out most of their issues before I came along.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 7, 2011 16:31:04 GMT -5
I don't think it is a good idea. I advise everyone who has ever said something to me about it against it.
Here is the problem for me. When you date someone with kids, you are really dating a 'new family' in a way. A good parent would probably want to see that you are 'good with the kids', but it would be pretty irresponsible to let someone near your kids so soon. Kids form attachments quickly, and you are setting them up for heartbreak if there are people falling in and out of their lives. On the other hand, if you date without the kids and form a strong attachment first, you may be trying out a relationship that will not approximate what the relationship will really be like day to day with the kids. Place here are the difficulties with finances, dealing with ex-partners, etc.
Both of my parents were married multiple times, and my mom dated at least 20 people during my lifetime and half a dozen that lived with me and my siblings for more than 3 months or so. There were even more if you just count people I met once or twice. This does help form my views on this a bit, even though I understand that other people do it much better. That said, it is still difficult to do well and the consequences of it going poorly are potentially awful.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 7, 2011 17:13:34 GMT -5
"I am 38 and been married 20 years and I have ALWAYS said that I would never date a man with kids and I have two of my own. Well should I get divorced now I am certain that any man I meet would have children so would have to change my priorities."
I find it a little strange that someone with kids would not want to date someone else with kids. You would think if anyone would want to date a single parent, it would be another single parent.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 7, 2011 17:31:29 GMT -5
"I don't think that second husbands / stepfathers are necessarily second class citizens. A couple of close friends really have tight bonds with their stepdads, especially if their real dads were a mess - it made them appreciate the stability and temperament of their stepdad."
Perhaps "second class citizen" wasn't the best word. i was simply trying to convey my reaction to the feelings many single parents have when dating is "the kids come first." If you're serious about someone and really want them to be a part of your life, it just seems odd to adopt a "us" and "them" attitude. That's what I interpreted when I hear "the kids come first." is that we are a single unit and you are a single unit and our unit comes before your unit. I just wouldn't feel comfortable commiting to someone with that attitude. That's not to say I demand "love me or love the kids" but the whole point of a family unit is everyone's needs are considered and you do what's best for the unit. You don't put any one person first, you put the well being of everyone first.
Maybe I'm a bad person for not wanting to commit to women who want to make their kids a priority over me. But there it is, at least I can be honest about it. But I never looked at love or commitment as something that someone has a finite amount of. I think you can still love and be committed to your kids and love and be comitted to someone you care about. Should I ever decide to date someone with kids, I wouldn't force the issue of "me or the kids." That's just crude.
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Post by debtheaven on Apr 7, 2011 17:36:32 GMT -5
I find it a little strange that someone with kids would not want to date someone else with kids.
Phenoix, so I'm strange LOL. Apparently so is Angel (the OP) who says exactly the same thing.
I think that the age of the children is a crucial factor. I had three kids under six, including a one-month-old. Angel has two very little kids, including an infant. I think the "baby mama drama" issue is probably another important factor as well. When you're dealing with kids that young, Lord knows that your kids, your job and your pending divorce take up all your energy and then some. MAYBE you can make room in your life for a guy but making room in your life for a guy + his kids and the potential "baby mama drama" was way overwhelming to even consider, so I just nixed it.
Would I have changed my mind later on down the road, had DH not come along? Probably.
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Post by debtheaven on Apr 7, 2011 17:40:57 GMT -5
Also, Phenoix, I definitely agree with what you say, in theory. The problem is, with kids, the practice can be quite different. For example, I remember DH and I going on a "fancy" date one night to celebrate something. We weren't 15 min away when the babysitter called to say that DS2 had shoved DS1's head into the table, DS1 was bleeding profusely. If anybody had called crying because they missed us, they didn't want a sitter, yada yada yada, we would have blown them off. Parents have rights too. But in that situation obviously we returned home ASAP and one of us had to spend the rest of that evening in the ER getting DS1 glued up. Caveat, that was many moons ago and happily DS1 and DS2 are best friends now and have been for many years, they are 22 and 24 now LOL. ETA: Maybe I'm a bad person for not wanting to commit to women who want to make their kids a priority over me. But there it is, at least I can be honest about it.
OK, if you're a bad person, then I am too, and so is Angel D. And so is Lena. Personally I prefer to think that we are all good people, but honest in what we can take on at a given point in our lives. I'd MUCH rather EVERYBODY be honest rather than get into a situation they haven't thought about. Frankly, I find the posts from people here who feel that they have to choose between their child and their new spouse quite pathetic. I would never want to shaft my DH for my kids, and I would never want to shaft my kids for my DH. I didn't know the details in those early days, but I knew I never wanted to be in that position, so I made my decisions accordingly.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2011 18:04:52 GMT -5
Look, DF is big on his Princess but not over me and vice versa. He does not let her "call the shots" about us or him and neither do I let mine do it to me. That is called RESPECT and COMMITMENT. If you aren't ready to set boundaries where your kids can't go then you should stay single.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Apr 7, 2011 19:19:44 GMT -5
I have only had one boyfriend that had kids. He had two kids with his ex-wife, who left him for someone else and violated the joint custody order by moving the kids out of state to Texas. He spent everything he had and then some on lawyers trying to get the kids back. When I dated him he was living with his parents and every time he paid off his debt, he would hire more lawyers to try to get his kids back again. We split up for several reasons, but probably the main one was that he wanted more kids right away. It seemed like he wanted the kids to fill the void in him from the ones he had lost, and that wasn't something I was ready to do for him on a short time frame. Looking back I shouldn't have been dating someone who was still that wounded and vulnerable from losing his kids.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 7, 2011 19:48:09 GMT -5
I have only dated one person with kids - my ex had a very sweet 5-year-old daughter. He was not a good father, and after I saw them interact a few times I knew I had to end the relationship. In retrospect, I'm glad he had a child - otherwise it would have taken me longer to see the "real" him. The really hilarious/awful thing is that about 6 months ago, my 30yo ex-stepmother (with whom I'm pretty good friends) started dating him! Thankfully they broke up a couple of weeks ago (my sibs already have the deck stacked against them dad-wise, this guy was not an improvement).
My best friend is engaged to a guy with 3 children (11, 14, and 16) and she loves them like her own, but has quite a bit of baby mama drama to deal with. I'm not sure how well I'd handle that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 20:29:41 GMT -5
I have dated a couple of guys with kids, but it never got serious enough that I would have even considered meeting the kids. I'd prefer to find a guy that doesn't have kids, but there seem to be fewer of those since I turned 30.
I think my issue with the "my kids will always come first" notion is that your spouse really should be the primary relationship in your life. I believe your spouse actually comes before your kids. So, yes, you are responsible for their well-being, yes, you love them unconditionally, and yes, you wouldn't pursue a relationship with someone who wasn't a good influence in your kids lives, but there is something off-putting about that expression.
If a kid is crying, you drop what you're doing, etc. But if you tell me that you will always prioritize your kids' wants and needs over your partner, then you aren't really interested in being a true partner.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2011 20:45:03 GMT -5
I agree. DF and I love our kids but we come first with each other. We also expect that the partner would not do anything to make the other partner "choose." He's a good man and loves his kid, his step-kids and their children like his own. He also likes mine which makes him a saint!!!!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 8, 2011 11:16:48 GMT -5
I think my issue with the "my kids will always come first" notion is that your spouse really should be the primary relationship in your life. I believe your spouse actually comes before your kids. So, yes, you are responsible for their well-being, yes, you love them unconditionally, and yes, you wouldn't pursue a relationship with someone who wasn't a good influence in your kids lives, but there is something off-putting about that expression. I think there is a difference between a spouse & someone you are dating. I also think people are misunderstanding the idea that "kids come first". It isn't that kids run the show, it is just that their needs & welfare come before everyone else's. Heck, I consider my kids needs above my own. If DS is sick & needs to go to the doctor, then my plans get canceled. If DS is allergic to cats, then I don't get a cat no matter how much I want one. If DS needs therapy twice a week, then he gets therapy twice a week regardless of what I would rather be doing with my time or how I would rather be spending the money. Any future spouse (or anyone I am dating) would have to be ok with the fact that all decisions are going to revolve around my kid's needs. Anyone that doesn't understand this I wouldn't consider as a potential future step-parent.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 8, 2011 11:27:31 GMT -5
I find it a little strange that someone with kids would not want to date someone else with kids. You would think if anyone would want to date a single parent, it would be another single parent. I don't want to date another parent because then I am likely taking on more responsibility than I already have. I already have two kids to care for, I don't need to add two more potentially unruly children to the mix. A lot of it depends on the kids, the relationship with the ex & the expectations. I don't want to suddenly find that I am responsible for doing the majority of the parenting for four children. I don't want baby mama drama. I don't want kids not familiar with living in my house running around screaming & tearing stuff up, especially if I am not able to discipline the way I see fit because they aren't my kids. Now, this stuff wouldn't be a problem with a great guy & great kids, but more than likely I am not going to find the great guy & great kids, but rather find myself in a miserable mess. Would other people not want to date me for the exact same reasons - Yes & I totally understand this.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 8, 2011 11:30:00 GMT -5
i was simply trying to convey my reaction to the feelings many single parents have when dating is "the kids come first." If you're serious about someone and really want them to be a part of your life, it just seems odd to adopt a "us" and "them" attitude.
I'm not single but when I say DD comes first it doesn't mean that I put her ahead of my DH or that I expect DH to compete with her for my love.
DD comes first in that we can no longer just pack up and go on a daytrip to Des Moines. If he wants a new TV and DD needs braces, DD is going to get the braces.
If I were single I am sorry but my child's needs both emotionally and physically have to come first. I would not stay home just because DD doesn't want to stay with grandma that night, but if she is sick I am going to cancel the date and stay home.
The majority of my discretionary income is going to have to go to meeting her needs if I am single. If he can't understand that I don't have a lot of money to spend on him and things to do with him, then we can't be together.
I also wouldn't want to date someone else with kids because I am not interested in making DD a sibling. Just because I have a child doesn't mean I want to take on MORE children and all that comes with being a step parent.
I don't think that makes a single parent a bad person.
DD was here first if I ever dated again, a person I am dating has to respect that. Doesn't mean she calls the shots, doesn't mean that she runs my life, but she is the main priority in my life because I am all she's got.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 12:43:25 GMT -5
DD comes first in that we can no longer just pack up and go on a daytrip to Des Moines. If he wants a new TV and DD needs braces, DD is going to get the braces. If I were single I am sorry but my child's needs both emotionally and physically have to come first. I would not stay home just because DD doesn't want to stay with grandma that night, but if she is sick I am going to cancel the date and stay home. The majority of my discretionary income is going to have to go to meeting her needs if I am single. If he can't understand that I don't have a lot of money to spend on him and things to do with him, then we can't be together. That is just being a responsible parent. If you are dating someone you have to explain that too, do yourself a favour and stop dating them. If you are dating someone you don't have to explain that too and you keep saying "my kid comes first" do them a favour and stop dating them.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 8, 2011 12:45:27 GMT -5
"DD comes first in that we can no longer just pack up and go on a daytrip to Des Moines."
Why in the world would you ever want to come on a daytrip here?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 8, 2011 12:47:02 GMT -5
That is just being a responsible parent.
That's what I mean when I tell people my children come first. I strongly believe that mentally/emotionally/physically my MARRIAGE comes first because a happy/stable marriage provides DD with the home she needs.
But for the most part she comes first. We have to be answerable to her now instead of doing "whatever we wanted" when we were DINKS.
People hear "my kid come first" and literally think it means that we have no life outside our kids and that we love DD more than we do each other.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 8, 2011 12:47:27 GMT -5
Why in the world would you ever want to come on a daytrip here?DH likes Adventureland and then we go to the State Fair every year. It requires a bit more planning this year than it did a few years ago. Last year we didn't even go because I was recovering from birth and wasn't up to walking and the heat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 12:57:19 GMT -5
DQ I think some of us take it for granted that people have to be loving, responsible parents. And it might be what you mean when you say "my kids come first" but I can tell you from experience that some people do mean that their kids run the show and get whatever they want and don't even consider challenging that.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 8, 2011 12:59:06 GMT -5
And it might be what you mean when you say "my kids come first" but I can tell you from experience that some people do mean that their kids run the show and get whatever they want and don't even consider challenging that. How do you know DH's nephew?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2011 13:36:55 GMT -5
That can happen but usually you very quickly pick up on who runs the show, the parent or the child and you can bail before you get too involved. I did my old bf a favor and told him why I was breaking up. Poor financial planning and his kids ruled the roost. He saw no reason to change either of those things so we parted. I am very happy now and I hope he is as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 16:44:00 GMT -5
There is no second-class in dating/marrying someone who already had kids. The partner and the kids both come first.
Love for your children and love for your partner are two entirely different things.
Couples who each have kids of their own before dating/marrying can understand this. The half of a couple who doesn't have kids, usually can't.
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Apr 8, 2011 17:02:40 GMT -5
Having dated multiple single mothers, I have decided:
never again.
Too much hassle and heartbreak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 18:32:17 GMT -5
I think my issue with the "my kids will always come first" notion is that your spouse really should be the primary relationship in your life. I believe your spouse actually comes before your kids. So, yes, you are responsible for their well-being, yes, you love them unconditionally, and yes, you wouldn't pursue a relationship with someone who wasn't a good influence in your kids lives, but there is something off-putting about that expression. I think there is a difference between a spouse & someone you are dating. I also think people are misunderstanding the idea that "kids come first". It isn't that kids run the show, it is just that their needs & welfare come before everyone else's. Heck, I consider my kids needs above my own. If DS is sick & needs to go to the doctor, then my plans get canceled. If DS is allergic to cats, then I don't get a cat no matter how much I want one. If DS needs therapy twice a week, then he gets therapy twice a week regardless of what I would rather be doing with my time or how I would rather be spending the money. Any future spouse (or anyone I am dating) would have to be ok with the fact that all decisions are going to revolve around my kid's needs. Anyone that doesn't understand this I wouldn't consider as a potential future step-parent. Yes, dating is different than marriage, but dating is also how you find someone to marry. And while I wouldn't date someone who had kids and wasn't a devoted parent, I also wouldn't date someone who had kids if they tossed around expressions like "the kids will always come first." Just a note of caution for the single parents out there. It's not hot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 19:02:12 GMT -5
Yes, dating is different than marriage, but dating is also how you find someone to marry. And while I wouldn't date someone who had kids and wasn't a devoted parent, I also wouldn't date someone who had kids if they tossed around expressions like "the kids will always come first." Just a note of caution for the single parents out there. It's not hot. You said it!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 19:52:43 GMT -5
I think my issue with the "my kids will always come first" notion is that your spouse really should be the primary relationship in your life. I believe your spouse actually comes before your kids. So, yes, you are responsible for their well-being, yes, you love them unconditionally, and yes, you wouldn't pursue a relationship with someone who wasn't a good influence in your kids lives, but there is something off-putting about that expression. If a kid is crying, you drop what you're doing, etc. But if you tell me that you will always prioritize your kids' wants and needs over your partner, then you aren't really interested in being a true partner. please oh please don't ever have kids.
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