Poster child for the new far left is at it again.

[phil5185]

Are there not 7,000,000 jobs currently available in the above ground economy? That disposable income and tax revenue might come in mighty helpful during this time of yet another round of Repo-Con Tinkle Down Debt Explosion.

lol, the tax revenue from 7m workers would pay for that $5B wall 10 times over. Every year.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 10, 2019 19:19:34 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

he just might shut the whole border down. Nothing in, nothing out.
He's enough of a dumbass to do just that.

BTW, that has precedence - the Immigration Act of 1921 and of 1924.

Aside from that, our country needs to look at the math. We hear about the security, drugs, rapists, racism, yada. But simple math tells you that there is a limit to the RATE of allowable immigration. Eg, if we controlled the rate to 5 million new immigrants per year, in 50 years we will have 250 million new folks, added to our current 300 million citizens. That is a lot of new schools, requires millions of new jobs, lots of new Social Security checks, hospitals, news highways, millions of new cars on the roads, a major restructuring of our food growing industry, and so on. We could probably find ways to handle it - but is it something that is desirable? Elbow to elbow people, all scrambling for food, shelter?

If the 1921 Administration figured out the math, why are we having to re-learn it?

Yes, let's look at the math, shall we?

1) The US fertility rate is not high enough to sustain itself. 

2) In 50 years, none of the current population will be dead? You do know that you have a surfeit of seniors, right? I doubt very much that they'll still be hanging on in 50 years.

"in 50 years we will have 250 million new folks, added to our current 300 million citizens"

3)You'll have a larger population paying taxes, so there should be money for schools and hospitals.

[tallguy]

Jan 10, 2019 23:56:15 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Are there not 7,000,000 jobs currently available in the above ground economy? That disposable income and tax revenue might come in mighty helpful during this time of yet another round of Repo-Con Tinkle Down Debt Explosion.

lol, the tax revenue from 7m workers would pay for that $5B wall 10 times over. Every year.

First, it is not a $5B wall.  That is merely the down payment.  More to the point, imagine how many complete walls would have been paid for by the hundreds of billions of lost revenue due to another idiotic tax cut.    

[dondub]

So in other words, Phil, we should let in 7 million adult workers right now.😎

[mroped]

Jan 10, 2019 23:56:15 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Are there not 7,000,000 jobs currently available in the above ground economy? That disposable income and tax revenue might come in mighty helpful during this time of yet another round of Repo-Con Tinkle Down Debt Explosion.

lol, the tax revenue from 7m workers would pay for that $5B wall 10 times over. Every year.

I just looked that up related to a different discussion/argument with a very ardent supporter of the president and the wall.
A libertarian think tank and a movement for open borders found that all illegals(DACA people included) produce somewhere around $460billion a year. If they were to be deported the SS contributions would drop about $24 billion a year.

Watchdog
“Libertarian think tanks and open borders advocates argue that illegal immigrants provide “net-gains” for American taxpayers. The Center for American Progress estimates that the loss of all DACA workers would reduce the U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by $460.3 billion over the next decade, with Medicare and Social Security contributions dropping by $24.6 billion. California would suffer a GDP loss of $11.3 billion; Texas, $6.1 billion, and North Carolina, $1.9 billion annually, it says.”

[OldCoyote]

Jan 11, 2019 8:31:53 GMT -5 mroped said:

Jan 10, 2019 23:56:15 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

lol, the tax revenue from 7m workers would pay for that $5B wall 10 times over. Every year.

I just looked that up related to a different discussion/argument with a very ardent supporter of the president and the wall.
A libertarian think tank and a movement for open borders found that all illegals(DACA people included) produce somewhere around $460billion a year. If they were to be deported the SS contributions would drop about $24 billion a year.

Watchdog
“Libertarian think tanks and open borders advocates argue that illegal immigrants provide “net-gains” for American taxpayers. The Center for American Progress estimates that the loss of all DACA workers would reduce the U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by $460.3 billion over the next decade, with Medicare and Social Security contributions dropping by $24.6 billion. California would suffer a GDP loss of $11.3 billion; Texas, $6.1 billion, and North Carolina, $1.9 billion annually, it says.”

One of the ways You can guess if a person is legal or not is in the amount of withholding they take.

If one takes say , 1, 2, 3 , dependents ,probably legal.     If  they take 10 dependents , even with "Good" looking papers ,, probably not.    

Since they will not be getting money back,, they don't pay in any more than necessary.

That said, many of the Illegals have U.S. born children here, they can get money, for food, the kids can get free meds. several programs.

They can also ,if the have several school age U.S. born children, get money for that by finding a acting U.S. citizen to be "Head of Household" in which they split the tax refund.

Wonder if the Liberal Think Tank takes that into consideration?? 

There is a lot of that going on!

How about the money that is sent to Mexico??

[mroped]

I’m assuming that the money sent to Mexico is illegally obtained by picking crops or installing roofs in 110* weather?!

[OldCoyote]

Jan 11, 2019 9:09:03 GMT -5 mroped said:

I’m assuming that the money sent to Mexico is illegally obtained by picking crops or installing roofs in 110* weather?!

Illegally obtained?? Tax paid on that??

Tax free money for Mexico!!

[OldCoyote]

Hmmmmm, if each of the Illegals sent home $100, a week,,

       30, 000,000

        X       $100

      $300,000,000

un taxed Money?

       

[mroped]

Jan 11, 2019 9:33:04 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jan 11, 2019 9:09:03 GMT -5 mroped said:

I’m assuming that the money sent to Mexico is illegally obtained by picking crops or installing roofs in 110* weather?!

Illegally obtained?? Tax paid on that??

Tax free money for Mexico!!

If there is one thing certain in this country is tax paying.
Somewhere along the line someone pays taxes for all the money that is being produced/exchanged hands.
Ie: I run my own business and decide to pay an individual under the table for a small project.
The whole project say costs $15k and my labor+profit on it is $5k from where I pay said individual a $500. I end up paying taxes myself on that $500 since at the end of the year I don’t declare him but I have to pay taxes on my income.
So no! Nothing is tax free.
Unless ofcourse I decide not to declare that $5k in its entirety in which case I’m committing tax evasion.
Now you, as the person that hired me can’t declare the whole $15k as an expense for home improvement but I have the duty and obligation to declare the $15k as gross income.

[OldCoyote]

Oh back to original topic,,,

The Dems,, poster girl,,, the woman that puts the worker class above all others,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-campaign-fined-for-not-providing-workers-compensation-coverage/ar-BBS5t6Q?ocid=spartandhp

Really??

[OldCoyote]

Jan 11, 2019 9:42:26 GMT -5 mroped said:

Jan 11, 2019 9:33:04 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Illegally obtained?? Tax paid on that??

Tax free money for Mexico!!

If there is one thing certain in this country is tax paying.
Somewhere along the line someone pays taxes for all the money that is being produced/exchanged hands.
Ie: I run my own business and decide to pay an individual under the table for a small project.
The whole project say costs $15k and my labor+profit on it is $5k from where I pay said individual a $500. I end up paying taxes myself on that $500 since at the end of the year I don’t declare him but I have to pay taxes on my income.
So no! Nothing is tax free.
Unless ofcourse I decide not to declare that $5k in its entirety in which case I’m committing tax evasion.
Now you, as the person that hired me can’t declare the whole $15k as an expense for home improvement but I have the duty and obligation to declare the $15k as gross income.

Ahhhh come on,,, as a true business man,, you negotiate all the "CASH PAYMENT " that you received under the table!!

Yea, I will give you a deal if it is in cash!!!

[countrygirl2]

Or do like some of the home builders in Texas, illegals do the work then immigration just happens to appear around paydays, so pure profit!  What a deal.  Happened quite often, was it the home builder or others??

[mroped]

So you are saying that if one wants gets easily paid in cash!
Funy how thta actually doesn’t happen.
if you are a service provider that does multiple jobs in one day(chimney sweep, plumber, electrician) your idea might work except that the new generation is so much into plastic and technology that it doesn’t work anymore.
I have a couple friends that were saying that they had to install apps and what nots on their phones just so they could collect payement. 
In my case people rarely use CC. For the 17 years that I have been in business I had exactly 3 cash pavements for amounts between $500 and $2500. 
Was in fact th ecustomers that offered to pay cash and at no discount. 
Ive been told that the offer to pay cash comes with a request of 10-20% discount. So what do I gain if I do that?

[weltschmerz]

Jan 11, 2019 9:03:52 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jan 11, 2019 8:31:53 GMT -5 mroped said:

I just looked that up related to a different discussion/argument with a very ardent supporter of the president and the wall.
A libertarian think tank and a movement for open borders found that all illegals(DACA people included) produce somewhere around $460billion a year. If they were to be deported the SS contributions would drop about $24 billion a year.

Watchdog
“Libertarian think tanks and open borders advocates argue that illegal immigrants provide “net-gains” for American taxpayers. The Center for American Progress estimates that the loss of all DACA workers would reduce the U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by $460.3 billion over the next decade, with Medicare and Social Security contributions dropping by $24.6 billion. California would suffer a GDP loss of $11.3 billion; Texas, $6.1 billion, and North Carolina, $1.9 billion annually, it says.”

One of the ways You can guess if a person is legal or not is in the amount of withholding they take.

If one takes say , 1, 2, 3 , dependents ,probably legal.     If  they take 10 dependents , even with "Good" looking papers ,, probably not.    

Since they will not be getting money back,, they don't pay in any more than necessary.

That said, many of the Illegals have U.S. born children here, they can get money, for food, the kids can get free meds. several programs.

They can also ,if the have several school age U.S. born children, get money for that by finding a acting U.S. citizen to be "Head of Household" in which they split the tax refund.

Wonder if the Liberal Think Tank takes that into consideration?? 

There is a lot of that going on!

How about the money that is sent to Mexico??

What about it? People shouldn't spend the money they earned by the fruits of their labour as they see fit?

[oped]

Jan 11, 2019 9:47:59 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jan 11, 2019 9:42:26 GMT -5 mroped said:

If there is one thing certain in this country is tax paying.
Somewhere along the line someone pays taxes for all the money that is being produced/exchanged hands.
Ie: I run my own business and decide to pay an individual under the table for a small project.
The whole project say costs $15k and my labor+profit on it is $5k from where I pay said individual a $500. I end up paying taxes myself on that $500 since at the end of the year I don’t declare him but I have to pay taxes on my income.
So no! Nothing is tax free.
Unless ofcourse I decide not to declare that $5k in its entirety in which case I’m committing tax evasion.
Now you, as the person that hired me can’t declare the whole $15k as an expense for home improvement but I have the duty and obligation to declare the $15k as gross income.

Ahhhh come on,,, as a true business man,, you negotiate all the "CASH PAYMENT " that you received under the table!!

Yea, I will give you a deal if it is in cash!!!

I hate when he brings home cash because I just have to deposit it.

Two times I felt like I should have reported trade and did not but that was because another party was involved.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 11, 2019 11:16:28 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 11, 2019 9:47:59 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ahhhh come on,,, as a true business man,, you negotiate all the "CASH PAYMENT " that you received under the table!!

Yea, I will give you a deal if it is in cash!!!

In over 25 years in business I have come across that quite a few times.  It is always small time operators who are shady at best, and whom one really does NOT want to be doing business with.

Of course the really smooth criminals that run businesses don't operate like that anyway.  They are more like.... Trump.

In the middle are honest schmucks like us.  Most business people that go to work every day and slog it out trying to make a buck 

we have been in business the same amount of time.  I can count the number of times we have taken cash on one hand.

none of them were reputable.

[OldCoyote]

Jan 11, 2019 10:24:55 GMT -5 mroped said:

So you are saying that if one wants gets easily paid in cash!
Funy how thta actually doesn’t happen.
if you are a service provider that does multiple jobs in one day(chimney sweep, plumber, electrician) your idea might work except that the new generation is so much into plastic and technology that it doesn’t work anymore.
I have a couple friends that were saying that they had to install apps and what nots on their phones just so they could collect payement. 
In my case people rarely use CC. For the 17 years that I have been in business I had exactly 3 cash pavements for amounts between $500 and $2500. 
Was in fact th ecustomers that offered to pay cash and at no discount. 
Ive been told that the offer to pay cash comes with a request of 10-20% discount. So what do I gain if I do that?

It is called the Brother in Law discount, up 25%, take off 10%!!

They got a discount!!!!! that all that counts.

[OldCoyote]

Jan 11, 2019 10:22:59 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

Or do like some of the home builders in Texas, illegals do the work then immigration just happens to appear around paydays, so pure profit!  What a deal.  Happened quite often, was it the home builder or others??

That's why we love the Illegals here in AZ.

[mroped]

Jan 12, 2019 9:23:29 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jan 11, 2019 10:22:59 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

Or do like some of the home builders in Texas, illegals do the work then immigration just happens to appear around paydays, so pure profit!  What a deal.  Happened quite often, was it the home builder or others??

That's why we love the Illegals here in AZ.

You might think it as a sarcastic joke and I get it but there are those that take it seriously and consider you a pure, full blown A-hole!
Taking advantage of people’s misfortune tends to translate that way.

[OldCoyote]

Jan 12, 2019 9:36:28 GMT -5 mroped said:

Jan 12, 2019 9:23:29 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

That's why we love the Illegals here in AZ.

You might think it as a sarcastic joke and I get it but there are those that take it seriously and consider you a pure, full blown A-hole!
Taking advantage of people’s misfortune tends to translate that way.

EZ money man,,, EZ money.

[countrygirl2]

I'm telling you big business loves this just like trump does.  He hires all these people for nothing working here and they have no rights to do anything.  Modern day slavery.

[Value Buy]

Jan 10, 2019 20:12:23 GMT -5 mroped said:

All we get in a year as immigrants is 50000 through Lottery Visa and whatever asylum claims are being processed which is about the same number.
If there would be a fair, legal way and expedite the process then many would come in legally.
As it were, it sucks big time!

I thought we receive close to a million legal immigrants a year. if we are limited to 50,000 where does the higher number come from?

[Value Buy]

Jan 10, 2019 20:12:23 GMT -5 mroped said:

All we get in a year as immigrants is 50000 through Lottery Visa and whatever asylum claims are being processed which is about the same number.
If there would be a fair, legal way and expedite the process then many would come in legally.
As it were, it sucks big time!

www.ncsl.org/research/immigration/snapshot-of-u-s-immigration-2017.aspx

A little over a million legal immigrants a year.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jan 12, 2019 9:40:05 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jan 12, 2019 9:36:28 GMT -5 mroped said:

You might think it as a sarcastic joke and I get it but there are those that take it seriously and consider you a pure, full blown A-hole!
Taking advantage of people’s misfortune tends to translate that way.

EZ money man,,, EZ money.

Too bad they don’t fine the business owners instead.  This is a reprehensible practice.  If illegals were not hired, this would not be the issue it is.

[justme]

Jan 12, 2019 12:05:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 10, 2019 20:12:23 GMT -5 mroped said:

All we get in a year as immigrants is 50000 through Lottery Visa and whatever asylum claims are being processed which is about the same number.
If there would be a fair, legal way and expedite the process then many would come in legally.
As it were, it sucks big time!

www.ncsl.org/research/immigration/snapshot-of-u-s-immigration-2017.aspx

A little over a million legal immigrants a year.

But the million is made up of 151k of refugees, almost 700k of families (ie spouses and children and maybe parents). There's a 144k for employment. And 76k for others.

So which are the lottery? I would think that's the other's, but I'm not overly versed in immigration specifics.

[dondub]

That darn girl.

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/conservatives-afraid-alexandria-ocasio-cortez_us_5c38cb74e4b05cb31c421cc3

[Gardening Grandma]

......
“Since Ocasio-Cortez, a 29-year-old working-class democratic socialist, unexpectedly toppled powerful white male incumbent Joe Crowley in a June primary, she’s become an object of fixation among Republicans, especially Republican men. “


ROFL

[mroped]

Jan 12, 2019 12:05:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 10, 2019 20:12:23 GMT -5 mroped said:

All we get in a year as immigrants is 50000 through Lottery Visa and whatever asylum claims are being processed which is about the same number.
If there would be a fair, legal way and expedite the process then many would come in legally.
As it were, it sucks big time!

www.ncsl.org/research/immigration/snapshot-of-u-s-immigration-2017.aspx

A little over a million legal immigrants a year.

Ok it’s 76000 not 50000 and that’s because some Diversity Lottery Visas are married and some have minor children too.
Yes, there are a million but legally following a set up standard procedure are just those 76000(due again to marriage and children) that are processed through legal channels.
Employement visas are given just upon request from companies. Can be for waiters or house service or atomic physicists. Due to their conditions of employement durring their contract in US they do not pay SS taxes, Medicare etc. neither does their employer for them.
If the company so desires and consider the individual valuable for their business then they help them get their status turn towards residency.
Asylee need to be in US at a Port of entry to apply for asylum, are being arrested, held in detention and processed. Depending on the circumstances they are approved or denied.
This group like all others are not part of a legal set up process for lawful immigration in US.

If we would have a proper system then all that million or so should be processed outside US and when they come they are already legal residents in processing for citizenship.
Family reunification is mostly due to those approved through asylum request and as part of Geneva Convention we have to facilitate that. Valid for legal spouse or children underage.
Unless Ofcourse you have some pull in high places and can bring your mom and dad!🙈

So again, I stand by my claim: 50000!

We need to fix the system not a damned wall!

[thyme4change]

We need beuracrats!