Getting my stuff together

[Sam_2.0]

Nov 23, 2018 14:07:51 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

OP, do you know if he is off his meds?

I know that in no way excuse his behaviors but you said you are familiar with this roller coaster : apologizing, being sweet, anger etc.

Those might warnings signs that his mood is not stable and either he is off his meds or his meds needs to be adjusted.

I don’t trust him to tell his doctor that, anyway you can reach out to his doctor?

He admitted today he hasn't refilled them in a month I told him that wasnt acceptable.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Nov 23, 2018 15:36:38 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Nov 23, 2018 15:22:05 GMT -5 WholeLottaNothin said:

I didn't think he took any meds

Does he battle with depression?

And he has crazy mood swings.

If he has not been seeing someone he needs to ASAP.

my understanding is that Yes, he's got depression. Yes, he battles with crazy mood swings. And he's sort of seeing someone but who knows what he is or isn't telling him/her.

[Sam_2.0]

Got back from dropping the kids off with my mom today, and we sat down to talk. He brought it all up, asked if I wanted a divorce. I said yes. LONG talk...nothings been decided officially. He knows I am seeing the lawyer and counselor. We went over the bills and he apologized for not helping, and immediately transferred $$$ to the acct for paying the bills.

He knows where I am at. Hes getting his meds refilled. At least I'm not hiding anything. I let him know that yesterday was completely unacceptable and will never happen again or he wont see the kids again. Still going to bring it up when we talk custody arrangements.

[Works4me]

What was his reason for not refilling his meds?

[TheOtherMe]

Nov 23, 2018 15:59:14 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Got back from dropping the kids off with my mom today, and we sat down to talk. He brought it all up, asked if I wanted a divorce. I said yes. LONG talk...nothings been decided officially. He knows I am seeing the lawyer and counselor. We went over the bills and he apologized for not helping, and immediately transferred $$$ to the acct for paying the bills.

He knows where I am at. Hes getting his meds refilled. At least I'm not hiding anything. I let him know that yesterday was completely unacceptable and will never happen again or he wont see the kids again. Still going to bring it up when we talk custody arrangements.

It must be a relief that you are no longer hiding.  Hugs and more hugs.  

It takes time for the meds to be effective.  It doesn't happen overnight.  Ask me how I know?  I have twice quit taking my anti-depressants and it does not work.  

[zibazinski]

Just be careful. I’m more concerned than ever now. Especially because he’s calm.

[Sam_2.0]

He didnt refill because they are $500/m. Hes on so many meds all stemming from his OCD, ADHD, anxiety, bi-polar, and depression. He sees a psychiatrist and a counselor regularly. We've hit our deductible so I told him he needs to refill asap and then again before the end of they year.

I am emotionally spent from the last 24 hours. I wish I could have a week off to recover. At least I had today off.

[andi9899]

Nov 23, 2018 16:21:56 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

He didnt refill because they are $500/m. Hes on so many meds all stemming from his OCD, ADHD, anxiety, bi-polar, and depression. He sees a psychiatrist and a counselor regularly. We've hit our deductible so I told him he needs to refill asap and then again before the end of they year.

I am emotionally spent from the last 24 hours. I wish I could have a week off to recover. At least I had today off.

He can't refill meds at $500/month but he can spend $1200/month at the bar?! Are you f@cking kidding me?!

[swasat]

Nov 23, 2018 15:59:14 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Got back from dropping the kids off with my mom today, and we sat down to talk. He brought it all up, asked if I wanted a divorce. I said yes. LONG talk...nothings been decided officially. He knows I am seeing the lawyer and counselor. We went over the bills and he apologized for not helping, and immediately transferred $$$ to the acct for paying the bills.

He knows where I am at. Hes getting his meds refilled. At least I'm not hiding anything. I let him know that yesterday was completely unacceptable and will never happen again or he wont see the kids again. Still going to bring it up when we talk custody arrangements.

It’s probably not my place to ask, and you can completely ignore answering if you do not wish to disclose, but I am curious just HOW did he conclude you want a divorce? You never mentioned anything to him before, so just how? Did he really snoop through your phone??

Sam, what you decide to do is your decision entirely. But I will say this - his behavior has gone on for a VERY long time, and this is not the first time he has apologized or shown repentance. But you stay and he gets back in his groove and the cycle repeats, over and over again.

Just please make sure that if you decide to stay, get something in writing on division of labor, household bills and acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Better still if your lawyer helps you with the draft.

I am not the one to get easily flustered or scared about things. But I am scared for you and the kids. A father exhibiting the behavior from yesterday, completely oblivious to anyone else’s feelings but his, is a sign of a mentally disturbed person.

I hope your family and you sis know what you are contemplating and support you in that?

[Blonde Granny]

I'm still wondering why Sam came back home with the kids.  This situation is doomed to repeat its self and the kids are going to once again be in the middle of it.

[CCL]

Nov 23, 2018 16:26:52 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Nov 23, 2018 16:21:56 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

He didnt refill because they are $500/m. Hes on so many meds all stemming from his OCD, ADHD, anxiety, bi-polar, and depression. He sees a psychiatrist and a counselor regularly. We've hit our deductible so I told him he needs to refill asap and then again before the end of they year.

I am emotionally spent from the last 24 hours. I wish I could have a week off to recover. At least I had today off.

He can't refill meds at $500/month but he can spend $1200/month at the bar?! Are you f@cking kidding me?!

Exactly!

[swasat]

Nov 23, 2018 16:37:28 GMT -5 Blonde Granny said:

I'm still wondering why Sam came back home with the kids.  This situation is doomed to repeat its self and the kids are going to once again be in the middle of it.

Yes, I wondered too. But then again, the situation might not be as dire as we think it is. We are only reading what Sam is posting. She is in the thick of it, she can assess the situation better than us and I am sure she felt safe enough to go back.


I remember how we all cried wolf when MPL was going through her second divorce. It wasn’t as bad as we all assumed it to be.

I agree with you though, I am scared for her and the kids,but Sam is a grown adult. We must show faith in her.

[CCL]

He might just be saying all this because he thinks that's what you want to hear.

[Wisconsin Beth]

The Chumplady board suggests that one get a post nuptial document drawn up by a lawyrr, outlining the financial splots and potential custody. So that if it fails, you've already got the basis for the divorce settlement worked out.

[Sam_2.0]

Nov 23, 2018 16:26:52 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Nov 23, 2018 16:21:56 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

He didnt refill because they are $500/m. Hes on so many meds all stemming from his OCD, ADHD, anxiety, bi-polar, and depression. He sees a psychiatrist and a counselor regularly. We've hit our deductible so I told him he needs to refill asap and then again before the end of they year.

I am emotionally spent from the last 24 hours. I wish I could have a week off to recover. At least I had today off.

He can't refill meds at $500/month but he can spend $1200/month at the bar?! Are you f@cking kidding me?!

Actually, it makes a lot of sense from his perspective. Hes not thinking rationally. $40 at the bar or for fast food is cheaper than $500 at the pharmacy.

I am fairly certain we are safe here for now. Hes not being left alone with the kids. And we have places to go should it escalate again. There are no guns in the house.

Aly is starting to exhibit signs of anxiety and OCD. We agreed to get her evaluated asap. I want her to have better coping skills, and even meds if needed. H's parents ignored it or tried to pray it away. Hes assured me he is on board with getting her help sooner rather than later.

[Pants]

Nov 23, 2018 15:59:14 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Got back from dropping the kids off with my mom today, and we sat down to talk. He brought it all up, asked if I wanted a divorce. I said yes. LONG talk...nothings been decided officially. He knows I am seeing the lawyer and counselor. We went over the bills and he apologized for not helping, and immediately transferred $$$ to the acct for paying the bills.

He knows where I am at. Hes getting his meds refilled. At least I'm not hiding anything. I let him know that yesterday was completely unacceptable and will never happen again or he wont see the kids again. Still going to bring it up when we talk custody arrangements.

Sam - Im glad you guys talked. I'm still scared for you. He's still not on his medications, has behaved abusively as recent as yesterday and now you've told him you want to leave. Tell him to go move into his parents. Trial separation starts now.

I know it's a lot. If he is actually repentant over everything that has happened, he needs to demonstrate that by giving you space. I'm sorry this all shook out this way.

[CCL]

Nov 23, 2018 16:49:34 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Nov 23, 2018 16:26:52 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

He can't refill meds at $500/month but he can spend $1200/month at the bar?! Are you f@cking kidding me?!

Actually, it makes a lot of sense from his perspective. Hes not thinking rationally. $40 at the bar or for fast food is cheaper than $500 at the pharmacy.

I am fairly certain we are safe here for now. Hes not being left alone with the kids. And we have places to go should it escalate again. There are no guns in the house.

Aly is starting to exhibit signs of anxiety and OCD. We agreed to get her evaluated asap. I want her to have better coping skills, and even meds if needed. H's parents ignored it or tried to pray it away. Hes assured me he is on board with getting her help sooner rather than later.

If your daughter's having anxiety issues I can't help but think maybe his behavior is the reason?

[TheHaitian]

OP, I am assuming here this is not the first time he has gone of his meds: either because of the cost or deciding to play Dr that is all well and better and does not need them.

Please make sure you bring that up when discussing custody. My wife cousin also is bi-polar and have other issues and have been approaching her mental health like a yo-yo diet while her mom is trying to pray it away... all we do is wait for the next “breakdown”.

The most recent one affected my wife greatly because my wife felt she should have seen the signs, she called my wife in the middle of the night, posting/liking things on Instagram at odd hours (not sleeping) and for some reason that day my wife felt something was weird and called her on her lunch break.

She answered in a childish voice and then pass the phone to someone; it was a police officer that asked my wife is she knew this person because she was seating someone and almost got hit by a car...

I don’t care for her ex husband, he is one piece of work... but one thing he did and I command him for was he made it known that she has mental problems and while they share custody 50/50... she is not allowed to be alone with their child. Her saving grace is that her mom is unemployed so she is with her at all time when she has custody of their son or she would be in trouble custody wise.

I would advise you to request the same: he is never to be alone with the kids because he cannot be trusted to take his medication on a regular basis and stay on his medication.

[Deleted]

I understand why Sam answering the divorce question honestly and being honest about seeing an attorney would cause concern for some posters, but I think that since he asked directly, honesty was the best thing. I don't have the issues that he has and it would piss me off greatly to find out in a couple of months that I was lied to when I specifically asked about it, and my spouse was actively planning to leave me at the same time he denied wanting a divorce. If that would make me angry, I can imagine it could be very, very bad with someone like Sam's husband.

I tend to agree with the posters that think he probably snooped through her phone while he had it in his possession, so it's likely he already knew anyway. All the more reason to tell the truth when asked. Just my opinion. But now that he knows what's up, I wouldn't volunteer any more information. Unless it is hashing out details of separation/divorce, he now knows everything he needs to know on the subject. And even with hashing out the details, I'd try to let him do most of the talking to avoid offering or agreeing to something before I thought it through or ran it by my attorney.

Sam, I'm sure the last 24 hours or so have been exhausting. I'm sorry.

You know we're going to need you to check in with us over the weekend, right? Even if it's just a one liner post letting us know that you're ok. Take care.

[raeoflyte]

Hugs Sam.  So.many.hugs.  

I just wish I had something more helpful.  

[chiver78]

I'm still worried for you. please don't discount you and your kids' safety as you traverse the coming weeks. especially with the knowledge that you confirmed that you want a divorce. you've said he comes and goes in waves, but it takes just a breeze to turn the winds. please know where you can go if that happens. 💗

[Sam_2.0]

Big kids are with mom for an overnight. Baby is here, and a good distraction. H and I are both worn out from the day. We also hashed out bills for the rest of the year and got almost all Christmas shopping done for the kids. Now we are watching a stupid show to decompress.

Safe and ok for now so tired. He wants to go to work tomorrow. I can hang out with baby until mom is ready to get rid of the big kids.

I have agreed to go to church on Sunday provided it was one of two I approved of. Given Alys current issues plus the fucked up place we came from, I refuse to go back to old church or let her go there and so far he is respecting that.

We have at least decided we can do a lot through mediation - neither of us are hateful towards the other and we both want this to be as gentle on the kids as possible. He started that convo and was very reasonable about it. I understand being guarded with him, but I also am willing to go with it when he is doing what is best for the group/kids. I am not going to fight him just for the sake of fighting him. I dont hate him. I wish this had turned out differently, but hes going to be a part of my life forever and I dont want it to be hostile if it doesn't have to be.

[zibazinski]

Good luck 👍🏻🍀

[crazycat]

So sorry you are going through this . Good luck ! I’m hopeful that he’s willing to sit and discuss like grown ups and do what’s best for all involved .

Good thoughts and prayers to you and yours . 😀🙏🏻

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Just to clarify because I’ve spent eight hours in a car today and purchased another car and I’m a bit glazed over:

He is okay with divorcing?

[Sam_2.0]

Nov 24, 2018 0:33:22 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Just to clarify because I’ve spent eight hours in a car today and purchased another car and I’m a bit glazed over:

He is okay with divorcing?

We've been in counseling for 2.5 years. He knew it was coming. He isn't "ok" with it as it's not the outcome he was hoping for, but hes said he understands and wants to focus on not ruining either of us financially and on doing what is best for the kiddos most of all.

[TheHaitian]

Nov 24, 2018 0:35:28 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Nov 24, 2018 0:33:22 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Just to clarify because I’ve spent eight hours in a car today and purchased another car and I’m a bit glazed over:

He is okay with divorcing?

We've been in counseling for 2.5 years. He knew it was coming. He isn't "ok" with it as it's not the outcome he was hoping for, but hes said he understands and wants to focus on not ruining either of us financially and on doing what is best for the kiddos most of all.

Get it in writing while he is still in sound mind and before his family start getting in his head.

[swasat]

Nov 24, 2018 0:35:28 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Nov 24, 2018 0:33:22 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Just to clarify because I’ve spent eight hours in a car today and purchased another car and I’m a bit glazed over:

He is okay with divorcing?

We've been in counseling for 2.5 years. He knew it was coming. He isn't "ok" with it as it's not the outcome he was hoping for, but hes said he understands and wants to focus on not ruining either of us financially and on doing what is best for the kiddos most of all.

Big hugs Sam. Big big hugs.

You know best where he stands. But I have been watching this play out from a distance. So as a neutral observer, the cynic in me says “ be careful Sam”.

If he “knew” this was coming and if this wasn’t the outcome he was hoping for, after 2.5 years in counseling, he sure is a big asshole for not even trying one bit for a different outcome. For creating scenes like yesterday. For not contributing in any way - emotionally, financially, physically or otherwise. Which man knows that his wife is heading towards divorce and makes no attempt at all to save his marriage?!?!?? The man who is checked out of the marriage himself.

He wants this too Sam. He has wanted this for a long time. You are just the initiator. He will be hailed the victim, most likely, but please don’t let that get to you. YOU ARE ONE STRONG WOMAN. You will come out of this, you will fly, you will soar and one day you will look back at your kids and think what a good decision it was to come out a marriage that was nothing but a noose around your neck.

My heart hurts for you. But I also feel happy that you and your kids will be out of your misery.

[oped]

I’m going to take the opposite side as swasat here, just to play devils advocate. Yes the man who already checked out doesn’t try and wants to move on acts this way. So does the family annihilator who knows no one will move on if it comes to that. 

I know im probably being too, something, because of the fundamentalist background you guys come from, but how will his family be towards a divorce? What things about himself as a man and husband might come out? 

I dont want you to fight him just to fight him. I think not fighting is great. BUT I don’t want you to drop your guard, not even for half a second. I don’t want you to relax into this thing. I still think you need plans to exit spur of the moment. I think you need to treat him as dangerous until the whole process is way settled. He’s impulsive, untreated mental illness, demonstrated at times both an inability to control himself and ideations of hopelessness and not being able to be the man he’s ‘supposed to be’...

He may have considered this was coming but guarantee he hasn’t thought through exactly what it means. As he does and those feelings converge, his ‘not thinking rationally’ can get dangerous fast. 

There is a reason why most women who are killed by spouses it’s when they try to leave. Call me alarmist. But I need to say bluntly the danger because I’d never forgive myself if I didn’t.

Recent studies on family annihilators show shame and toxic masculinity are significant factors. 

Info:

“Family breakup was the most common cause, accounting for 66% of cases, although this included related domestic issues such as access to children. Financial difficulties were the second most commonly cited motive; followed by honour killing and mental illness.

"Analysing these shared traits and motivations has allowed us to identify four types of killer; anomic, disappointed, paranoid and self- righteous," said Prof. Wilson. "While these may overlap, they all go beyond the traditional ideas of the 'revenge' or 'altruistic' murderers."

Categorizing the Killers: Four Types of Family Annihilator

Self-righteous: The killer seeks to locate blame for his crimes upon the mother who he holds responsible for the breakdown of the family. This may involve the killer phoning his partner before the murder to explain what he is about to do. For these men, their breadwinner status is central to their idea of the ideal family.

Disappointed: This killer believes his family has let him down or has acted in ways to undermine or destroy his vision of ideal family life. An example may be disappointment that children are not following the traditional religious or cultural customs of the father.”

Read more at: phys.org/news/2013-08-characteristics-family-killers-revealed-taxonomy.html#jCp

 

[oped]

So yeah. I don’t think at this point ‘one last great christmas’ is a reasonable goal. He should be out of the house. When he comes to do holiday and visit things someone else should be there. Others should know about the divorce happening now, his family, not a secret till January. And I wouldn’t let him take the kids anywhere alone. Blame my writers brain, call me paranoid, I don’t give a crap. You all coming out of this alive is my concern, and his ‘being ok with it’ and trying to be perfect to give the kids one last holiday is no comfort to me at the moment because it fits with both narratives.