USS is investing $750,000,000 in Gary steel mill

[Value Buy]

As President Trump helps make America great again!

www.nwitimes.com/business/lake-newsletter/u-s-steel-announces-million-investment-in-renaissance-of-gary/article_a92f3e21-223f-50f4-b2bb-346a27117a98.html

[Value Buy]

This helps protect and expand jobs that pay upwards of $100,000 a year or more.
Recently USS also restarted a millin Granite CityIllinois that had been idled a few years ago.

[djAdvocate]

again, if the US steel industry grows to meet domestic demand, that will grow the tiny US industry by 50%.  it won't create more than 10k jobs.

the impact of the tariffs remains to be seen, but it is not unreasonable to expect 1M jobs lost.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 17, 2018 12:11:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

This helps protect and expand jobs that pay upwaards of $100,000 a year or more.
Recently USS also restarted a millin Granite CityIllinois that had been idled a few years ago.

um...no.  line workers in steel make about 50k.  management jobs pay about 75k.  only upper management can expect 6 figures in that industry. 

if you think otherwise, i would like you to document it.

[Value Buy]

Aug 17, 2018 12:31:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 17, 2018 12:11:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

This helps protect and expand jobs that pay upwaards of $100,000 a year or more.
Recently USS also restarted a millin Granite CityIllinois that had been idled a few years ago.

um...no.  line workers in steel make about 50k.  management jobs pay about 75k.  only upper management can expect 6 figures in that industry. 

if you think otherwise, i would like you to document it.

My son, my neighbor, and three nephews who are all on the production line, and members of thre Union will disagree with you on the numbers Three work at USS and two at Arcellar Midal are all 100,000 plus and they are not the exception. Incentives, bonuses kick it well up the ladder. This does include benefits and does include some overtime.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 17, 2018 12:35:59 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 12:31:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

um...no.  line workers in steel make about 50k.  management jobs pay about 75k.  only upper management can expect 6 figures in that industry. 

if you think otherwise, i would like you to document it.

My son, my neighbor, and three nephews who are all on the production line, and members of thre Union will disagree with you on the numbers Three work at USS and two at Arcellar Midal are all 100,000 plus and they are not the exception. Incentives, bonuses kick it well up the ladder. This does include benefits and does include some overtime.

not interested in anecdotes.  people say things about what they make all the time.

median pay for steelworkers is $20.63/hour.  it has been falling for decades.  the pay RANGE of steel workers is $30-67k.  those are line workers.  the higher figure includes bonuses and overtime.

either you are mistaken, you are lying, or there are circumstances that you are not telling me about.

www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Steelworker/Hourly_Rate

disclosure: for over two decades i invested in this industry.  that is why i knew without looking what they get paid.

[Value Buy]

Regular maintence workers in the mill pull down well over $50,000 a year.
Quit with the misdirection. The op is the President is making America great again, through the tax cuts and now the steel tariffs. I prefer the jobs stay here or be here rather than in China and India.  You can continue buying foreign steel for your operations if you want to.
USS is actually in new contract talks with the union, and this would not be a great time to announce new investments when they want to keep wages as low as possible. The union will use this news in their arguments with USS they can afford the pay increases. 

[Tennesseer]

"As President Trump helps make America great again!"

What does trump have to do with U.S. Steel?  Is trump's admin paying U.S. Steel the $750,000,000? Why couldn't U.S. Steel invest the money in the first place to save the Gary steel mill?

Meanwhile, myself and others, are paying farmers $12 billion dollars because of the tariffs.

Thanks, trump!

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Aug 17, 2018 12:31:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 17, 2018 12:11:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

This helps protect and expand jobs that pay upwaards of $100,000 a year or more.
Recently USS also restarted a millin Granite CityIllinois that had been idled a few years ago.

um...no.  line workers in steel make about 50k.  management jobs pay about 75k.  only upper management can expect 6 figures in that industry. 

if you think otherwise, i would like you to document it.

I was a salaried electronics foreman at a now bankrupt steel company for 9 years. I made about $65k. I saw hourly workers make $100k. They slept during the night shift then were on 4 hour safety teams in the morning for overtime, Also worked doubles. Since management couldn't enforce the work rules, one works a double today when you call off and you work one tomorrow when I call off. Most corrupt union ever. Then they blame management for the bankruptcy. A big company too, Bethlehem Steel. So glad I got out a few years before. Get a small pension from PBGC. Don't need it though. I don't feel sorry for the union guys who drove corvettes and had boats and expected a pension with full medical benefits for the family at age 55. They didn't have a marketable skill or work ethic to get another job, especially at that pay.

[happyhoix]

Aug 17, 2018 12:49:27 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Regular maintence workers in the mill pull down well over $50,000 a year.
Quit with the misdirection. The op is the President is making America great again, through the tax cuts and now the steel tariffs. I prefer the jobs stay here or be here rather than in China and India.  You can continue buying foreign steel for your operations if you want to.
USS is actually in new contract talks with the union, and this would not be a great time to announce new investments when they want to keep wages as low as possible. The union will use this news in their arguments with USS they can afford the pay increases. 

You're the one misdirecting -You're missing the forest for the trees.

YAH for US steel production - which is about 80,000 jobs.

Sucks for every other US industry that uses steel in their production - want to guess how many millions of workers work for companies that are going to have to pay more for either high priced US steel or high priced imported steel with the new tariffs?  Or do you think that the US steel manufacturers will offer bottom discount sale prices because they're nice guys and don't want to gouge other manufacturers?

Of course, bottom line - it's the Americans who buy products that use steel that will pay more to keep buying them, or just do without, because they're too expensive.

But you go ahead and celebrate those 80,000 steel workers who are now living the American dream! Fuck the rest of us - that's the Trumpian ideal.  #MAGA

[Value Buy]

Aug 17, 2018 13:34:14 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Aug 17, 2018 12:31:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

um...no.  line workers in steel make about 50k.  management jobs pay about 75k.  only upper management can expect 6 figures in that industry. 

if you think otherwise, i would like you to document it.

I was a salaried electronics foreman at a now bankrupt steel company for 9 years. I made about $65k. I saw hourly workers make $100k. They slept during the night shift then were on 4 hour safety teams in the morning for overtime, Also worked doubles. Since management couldn't enforce the work rules, one works a double today when you call off and you work one tomorrow when I call off. Most corrupt union ever. Then they blame management for the bankruptcy. A big company too, Bethlehem Steel. So glad I got out a few years before. Get a small pension from PBGC. Don't need it though. I don't feel sorry for the union guys who drove corvettes and had boats and expected a pension with full medical benefits for the family at age 55. They didn't have a marketable skill or work ethic to get another job, especially at that pay.

Ken, it was not the Union workers who got hurt. It was non union mgmt positions that were crushed. They lost their pensions they earned from Bethlehem, and many lost the job also. The Union workers basically kept their USW earned pensions. I imagine there are jobs where the workers sleep through the night, etc, but not as much as they used to. If employees work out a system where they call off to reward each other, that's on them, and not the union. I know of Bethlehem union workers whop retired after the collapse and retired as Arcellar Mittal employees and have excellent retirement benefits, including medical.

[happyhoix]

Aug 17, 2018 13:57:37 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 13:34:14 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

I was a salaried electronics foreman at a now bankrupt steel company for 9 years. I made about $65k. I saw hourly workers make $100k. They slept during the night shift then were on 4 hour safety teams in the morning for overtime, Also worked doubles. Since management couldn't enforce the work rules, one works a double today when you call off and you work one tomorrow when I call off. Most corrupt union ever. Then they blame management for the bankruptcy. A big company too, Bethlehem Steel. So glad I got out a few years before. Get a small pension from PBGC. Don't need it though. I don't feel sorry for the union guys who drove corvettes and had boats and expected a pension with full medical benefits for the family at age 55. They didn't have a marketable skill or work ethic to get another job, especially at that pay.

Ken, it was not the Union workers who got hurt. It was non union mgmt positions that were crushed. They lost their pensions they earned from Bethlehem, and many lost the job also. The Union workers basically kept their USW earned pensions. I imagine there are jobs where the workers sleep through the night, etc, but not as much as they used to. If employees work out a system where they call off to reward each other, that's on them, and not the union. I know of Bethlehem union workers whop retired after the collapse and retired as Arcellar Mittal employees and have excellent retirement benefits, including medical.

Awesome! 10K more steel employees will get 100,000 per year jobs.

How does that make America great again, if all Americans are paying higher prices for everything made with steel?

[Deleted]

The surcharges for the tariffs from vendor notices have started rolling in, most of them are starting the increase in September.

Higher costs for us now, higher prices for our customers in 2019.

I’m glad we could all do our part to subsidize US steel.

[Value Buy]

Aug 17, 2018 13:55:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 17, 2018 12:49:27 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Regular maintence workers in the mill pull down well over $50,000 a year.
Quit with the misdirection. The op is the President is making America great again, through the tax cuts and now the steel tariffs. I prefer the jobs stay here or be here rather than in China and India.  You can continue buying foreign steel for your operations if you want to.
USS is actually in new contract talks with the union, and this would not be a great time to announce new investments when they want to keep wages as low as possible. The union will use this news in their arguments with USS they can afford the pay increases. 

You're the one misdirecting -You're missing the forest for the trees.

YAH for US steel production - which is about 80,000 jobs.

Sucks for every other US industry that uses steel in their production - want to guess how many millions of workers work for companies that are going to have to pay more for either high priced US steel or high priced imported steel with the new tariffs?  Or do you think that the US steel manufacturers will offer bottom discount sale prices because they're nice guys and don't want to gouge other manufacturers?

Of course, bottom line - it's the Americans who buy products that use steel that will pay more to keep buying them, or just do without, because they're too expensive.

But you go ahead and celebrate those 80,000 steel workers who are now living the American dream! Fuck the rest of us - that's the Trumpian ideal.  #MAGA

Anyone remember the terrible term "Jap crap"? Yes, it was racial, America imported the cheap stuff of low quality items from Japan at the expense of American jobs for the cheap stuff which were at the time, of poorer quality. Then the manufacturing went to China. 
Myself, I would rather we have bought American and saved the manufacturing jobs. Better we make a salary of $75,000 here with all the ancilllary jobs that come with the large amount of inhouse manufacturing, then making ten's of millions of jobs overseas so we can all work in fast food at $10 an hour. For every  job made in heavy manufacturing, there is another 15 jobs of high quality attached to it in other businesses that supply or move product to and from the mills. 
I am shocked you feel differently.

[dezii]

Aug 17, 2018 12:09:22 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

As President Trump helps make America great again!

www.nwitimes.com/business/lake-newsletter/u-s-steel-announces-million-investment-in-renaissance-of-gary/article_a92f3e21-223f-50f4-b2bb-346a27117a98.html

Sounds good...not wanting to be the one who rains on the cook out but do have some questions...When Donald is gone...yes he will be...as much as he admires Putin and the leader for life in China...still he will be gone...and when the tariffs are no longer...they too will pass I believe...and unless these new rebuilt furnices  and mills become mostly worker free....

What happens when South Korea, Mexico, China, Canada and other large Steel producing countries  ...with even more modern Steel plants...and as far as China, Korea and possible other lower wage countries ...much less expensive worker compensations....their steel is so much less expensive then that produced in the States...? 

just asking.

[Value Buy]

Aug 17, 2018 13:10:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

"As President Trump helps make America great again!"

What does trump have to do with U.S. Steel?  Is trump's admin paying U.S. Steel the $750,000,000? Why couldn't U.S. Steel invest the money in the first place to save the Gary steel mill?

Meanwhile, myself and others, are paying farmers $12 billion dollars because of the tariffs.

Thanks, trump!

Trump lowered business tax rates that allow our industries to expand and hire more Americans.

The steel tariffs are also helping, evening the playing field. If other countries stopped tariffs on many of our products, we would not have this discussion.
Trump has said end tariffs on our manufacturers and we end our tariffs. then everyone works from an even playing field. Do not let your dislike of Trump to affect your objective observation on the issue.

How about wrestling me with your right hand tied behind your back? 

[happyhoix]

Aug 17, 2018 14:06:11 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 13:55:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

You're the one misdirecting -You're missing the forest for the trees.

YAH for US steel production - which is about 80,000 jobs.

Sucks for every other US industry that uses steel in their production - want to guess how many millions of workers work for companies that are going to have to pay more for either high priced US steel or high priced imported steel with the new tariffs?  Or do you think that the US steel manufacturers will offer bottom discount sale prices because they're nice guys and don't want to gouge other manufacturers?

Of course, bottom line - it's the Americans who buy products that use steel that will pay more to keep buying them, or just do without, because they're too expensive.

But you go ahead and celebrate those 80,000 steel workers who are now living the American dream! Fuck the rest of us - that's the Trumpian ideal.  #MAGA

Anyone remember the terrible term "Jap crap"? Yes, it was racial, America imported the cheap stuff of low quality items from Japan at the expense of American jobs for the cheap stuff which were at the time, of poorer quality. Then the manufacturing went to China. 
Myself, I would rather we have bought American and saved the manufacturing jobs. Better we make a salary of $75,000 here with all the ancilllary jobs that come with the large amount of inhouse manufacturing, then making ten's of millions of jobs overseas so we can all work in fast food at $10 an hour. For every  job made in heavy manufacturing, there is another 15 jobs of high quality attached to it in other businesses that supply or move product to and from the mills. 
I am shocked you feel differently.

 So let me get this straight - you want Americans to pay more for everything we purchase and be happy about it because it's made in the US? Have you ever been to Walmart?

Sorry -it's a global economy now. My dad was in the tire business in the 70's and 80's, responsible for buying the steel that went into radial tires. He couldn't find any of good enough quality in the states because the US steel industry got bogged down paying high union wages and funding enormous pension plans, while the Japanese were able to invest their money into new equipment that made higher quality steel. Do you think my dad purchased expensive, poor quality US steel rather than spending the same money for higher quality Japanese steel? Why would he risk producing shitty tires just to use US steel?

Besides, in a global economy, American companies are often owned by international companies. I work in manufacturing in the states - for a French company. In our city, we have people making cars for a German company, people making turbines for a French company, people making chemicals for a Germany company. One of the other largest employers is an Amazon distribution center, through which products from all over the world pass through to American buyers. Sorry to break it to you, but your little fantasy of Americans making American products just for American markets is quaint but dead. 

Trump is causing a bunch of market disruption with all his various trade wars. This is only the beginning of it. Trump thinks he can out wait and out think the Chinese. meanwhile, the Chinese have been making good trade deals with everyone but us. #Winning!

 

 

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Value Buy I think we've had this discussion before. I agree with much of what you posted. It only takes a few lazy people to ruin an organization. I had some good people working for me that I'm sure found good jobs, just paying a lot less. I came in with an electronics experience and was unfamiliar with heavy industry and unions. I guess I was naive thinking we could work together. Didn't know it was an environment of distrust toward management. In those 9 years I got the respect of some and we kept the mill running. I just saw a dark side of the union workers. If I was first on a production stopping problem and saved the company $10k by correcting it quickly then the hourly guy files a grievance and gets paid 4 hours what does that say? I work extra hours without pay and they get overtime. I know it was my choice. Well that pension never factored into my plan.

[phil5185]

Sucks for every other US industry that uses steel in their production - want to guess how many millions of workers work for companies that are going to have to pay more for either high priced US steel or high priced imported steel with the new tariffs?

I expect the opposite. As the tariffs reach equilibrium and level the field, the steel prices in the US will be lower than imported steel. And as we apply US engineering and production innovations, US steel will get another price dip. It might take a couple years - but that will be the outcome.

But I see one company that is going to get hit - Harley Davidson. A major part of the heavy cruiser brand is the 'made in America', that has kept HD competitive in the US for decades. A mistake to move a factory offshore?

[dezii]

Aug 17, 2018 14:11:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 13:10:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

"As President Trump helps make America great again!"

What does trump have to do with U.S. Steel?  Is trump's admin paying U.S. Steel the $750,000,000? Why couldn't U.S. Steel invest the money in the first place to save the Gary steel mill?

Meanwhile, myself and others, are paying farmers $12 billion dollars because of the tariffs.

Thanks, trump!

Trump lowered business tax rates that allow our industries to expand and hire more Americans.

The steel tariffs are also helping, evening the playing field. If other countries stopped tariffs on many of our products, we would not have this discussion.
Trump has said end tariffs on our manufacturers and we end our tariffs. then everyone works from an even playing field. Do not let your dislike of Trump to affect your objective observation on the issue.

How about wrestling me with your right hand tied behind your back? 

There are reasons that countries use tariffs to protect their own citizens livelihoods …

Thinking off the top of my head, France, a nation of small still family farms...operating for centuries in same area,  even same families...unable to compete with the hugh corporation farms, cattle ranches in say the USA  or even in South America..thousands of acres of grass land, gauchos ...also other industries similar...believe we do the same thing.   just saying.

[dezii]

Aug 17, 2018 14:43:39 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Sucks for every other US industry that uses steel in their production - want to guess how many millions of workers work for companies that are going to have to pay more for either high priced US steel or high priced imported steel with the new tariffs?

I expect the opposite. As the tariffs reach equilibrium and level the field, the steel prices in the US will be lower than imported steel. And as we apply US engineering and production innovations, US steel will get another price dip. It might take a couple years - but that will be the outcome.

But I see one company that is going to get hit - Harley Davidson. A major part of the heavy cruiser brand is the 'made in America', that has kept HD competitive in the US for decades. A mistake to move a factory offshore?

Your saying that as we apply  US   engineering yadda, yadda , the engineers working over seas for those foreign competitors aren't up to coming up with their own modern cost saving ideas...even bettering ours..?

Possible right after WW2 but no longer for decades now....

[happyhoix]

Aug 17, 2018 14:43:39 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Sucks for every other US industry that uses steel in their production - want to guess how many millions of workers work for companies that are going to have to pay more for either high priced US steel or high priced imported steel with the new tariffs?

I expect the opposite. As the tariffs reach equilibrium and level the field, the steel prices in the US will be lower than imported steel. And as we apply US engineering and production innovations, US steel will get another price dip. It might take a couple years - but that will be the outcome.

But I see one company that is going to get hit - Harley Davidson. A major part of the heavy cruiser brand is the 'made in America', that has kept HD competitive in the US for decades. A mistake to move a factory offshore?

Yes because without foreign competition, US steel companies will gladly voluntarily lower steel prices just for fun.

Said no manufacturer of anything, ever.

Remember the saying 'what the market will bear?'

Sure, they'll add engineering and product innovations and become more efficient, but they will always charge just a hair under what you would pay for the same quality of imported steel, because why wouldn't they? Who leaves money on the table?

[justme]

Meanwhile, companies are already being screwed out of production due to these tariffs. My company was trying to buy some new equipment but hasn't been able to due to companies reacting to the tariffs.


As for the idea that we'll suddenly have leaps and bounds in technology for steel production is pretty laughable. We couldn't figure it out as all the plants closed here, why would they suddenly be able to now? And if they did - well it'd all be in automation and then bye bye new steel jobs you all are touting hello robots.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

IMO American made steel is the highest quality in the world.

[mollyanna58]

It's certainly better than US Steel spending $750mil to open a mill in Mexico or any other country.

[happyhoix]

Aug 17, 2018 15:12:53 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

It's certainly better than US Steel spending $750mil to open a mill in Mexico or any other country.

Yes, it is good, for that limited pool of employees that will work at that mill, and for the community around the mill that will benefit from their patronage.

Just not sure it's a good sign for the rest of us.

[Value Buy]

Aug 17, 2018 14:47:14 GMT -5 dezii said:

Aug 17, 2018 14:11:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Trump lowered business tax rates that allow our industries to expand and hire more Americans.

The steel tariffs are also helping, evening the playing field. If other countries stopped tariffs on many of our products, we would not have this discussion.
Trump has said end tariffs on our manufacturers and we end our tariffs. then everyone works from an even playing field. Do not let your dislike of Trump to affect your objective observation on the issue.

How about wrestling me with your right hand tied behind your back? 

There are reasons that countries use tariffs to protect their own citizens livelihoods …

Thinking off the top of my head, France, a nation of small still family farms...operating for centuries in same area,  even same families...unable to compete with the hugh corporation farms, cattle ranches in say the USA  or even in South America..thousands of acres of grass land, gauchos ...also other industries similar...believe we do the same thing.   just saying.

Okay for them to do it to us, but we cannot do it to them..........
End all tariffs

[Value Buy]

Dezi, did you have a brain freeze in post 20?

That is a lot of gray matter there  

[Tennesseer]

Aug 17, 2018 14:11:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 13:10:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

"As President Trump helps make America great again!"

What does trump have to do with U.S. Steel?  Is trump's admin paying U.S. Steel the $750,000,000? Why couldn't U.S. Steel invest the money in the first place to save the Gary steel mill?

Meanwhile, myself and others, are paying farmers $12 billion dollars because of the tariffs.

Thanks, trump!

Trump lowered business tax rates that allow our industries to expand and hire more Americans.

The steel tariffs are also helping, evening the playing field. If other countries stopped tariffs on many of our products, we would not have this discussion.
Trump has said end tariffs on our manufacturers and we end our tariffs. then everyone works from an even playing field. Do not let your dislike of Trump to affect your objective observation on the issue.

How about wrestling me with your right hand tied behind your back? 

What jobs? From the Chicago Tribune regarding the subject of this thread:

"No new hires were announced as part of the plant improvements."

U.S. Steel to invest $750 million to revitalize flagship Gary plant in wake of Trump tariffs

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Aug 17, 2018 15:37:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dezi, did you have a brain freeze in post 20?

That is a lot of gray matter there  

Hey he was giving us room to write comments. I thought my computer broke.