USS is investing $750,000,000 in Gary steel mill

[weltschmerz]

Aug 17, 2018 15:10:23 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

IMO American made steel is the highest quality in the world.

I thought it was German steel.

[Value Buy]

Aug 17, 2018 15:21:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 17, 2018 15:12:53 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

It's certainly better than US Steel spending $750mil to open a mill in Mexico or any other country.

Yes, it is good, for that limited pool of employees that will work at that mill, and for the community around the mill that will benefit from their patronage.

Just not sure it's a good sign for the rest of us.

I guess in my old age, I am just pulling for that former great city on the lake front, Gary Indiana.
It has fallen on very hard times lately, actually since the 80's...........Most manufacturing jobs have disappeared. The city's tax base and receipts from property taxes are decimated. I think about 60% of property owners even bother paying their property taxes. The city is broke. If USS goes out, it is gone.......
Emerson high school
Roosevelt high school
Lew Wallace highschool
Gary Edison high school
William A. Wirt high school
Froebel highschool-all closed down.
They produced some of our greatest sports figures in Boxing, football, Baseball, track, you name it. Titans of industry came from these halls. Whites, Blacks, Spanish, Jewish, you name it, they were all there.
The school system is about 100 million in debt, most schools closed in the last 20 years, down to one public high school from, I think six, and so broke and disorganized, the state came in, threw out the school board and took over the system. The old schools and the entire modern teaching system were developed by William Wirt almost a 100 years ago. The buildings were filled with art, busts of famous people, etc. Now they are auctioning it all off to help pay the school debt. Some residents are bidding on a select few items to put into  a proposed museum because once gone history of the sytem is lost to Gary.

Part of the deal with USS is the city and school system 25 million dollars to help them out.

I want the city to succeed, thus I am happy to see this investment. 
MAGA

[Value Buy]

Aug 17, 2018 15:39:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 17, 2018 14:11:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Trump lowered business tax rates that allow our industries to expand and hire more Americans.

The steel tariffs are also helping, evening the playing field. If other countries stopped tariffs on many of our products, we would not have this discussion.
Trump has said end tariffs on our manufacturers and we end our tariffs. then everyone works from an even playing field. Do not let your dislike of Trump to affect your objective observation on the issue.

How about wrestling me with your right hand tied behind your back? 

What jobs? From the Chicago Tribune regarding the subject of this thread:

"No new hires were announced as part of the plant improvements."

U.S. Steel to invest $750 million to revitalize flagship Gary plant in wake of Trump tariffs

Please note post #2

[Tennesseer]

Aug 17, 2018 15:57:15 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 15:39:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

What jobs? From the Chicago Tribune regarding the subject of this thread:

"No new hires were announced as part of the plant improvements."

U.S. Steel to invest $750 million to revitalize flagship Gary plant in wake of Trump tariffs

Please note post #2

Post #2:

This helps protect and expand jobs that pay upwards of $100,000 a year or more.
Recently USS also restarted a millin Granite CityIllinois that had been idled a few years ago.

Says nothing about hiring more steel workers.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

In 1990 I was hired for the modernization of the hot strip mill. Old operators became obsolete and fewer operators were need. The new jobs were more technical and required some computer knowledge. More engineers like myself were needed because the process became computer controlled.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 17, 2018 12:49:27 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Regular maintence workers in the mill pull down well over $50,000 a year.
Quit with the misdirection.

so, challenging your assertion in the OP is a "misdirection"?

is that how we debate now?  LOL! 

but i get it: you don't like that.  tough titty.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 17, 2018 13:34:14 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Aug 17, 2018 12:31:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

um...no.  line workers in steel make about 50k.  management jobs pay about 75k.  only upper management can expect 6 figures in that industry. 

if you think otherwise, i would like you to document it.

I was a salaried electronics foreman at a now bankrupt steel company for 9 years. I made about $65k. I saw hourly workers make $100k.

how long ago, if you don't mind me asking?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 17, 2018 14:11:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 13:10:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

"As President Trump helps make America great again!"

What does trump have to do with U.S. Steel?  Is trump's admin paying U.S. Steel the $750,000,000? Why couldn't U.S. Steel invest the money in the first place to save the Gary steel mill?

Meanwhile, myself and others, are paying farmers $12 billion dollars because of the tariffs.

Thanks, trump!

Trump lowered business tax rates that allow our industries to expand and hire more Americans.

why would they do that, if there is no aggregate demand for their products?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 17, 2018 12:49:27 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I prefer the jobs stay here or be here rather than in China and India.  You can continue buying foreign steel for your operations if you want to.

red herring.  i buy domestic product.  more than that, i BUILD domestic product.  so, i am the last person on Earth that you want to finger wag on this topic, VB.  India (including many plants owned by Mittal) make shit.  sorry, but it is a fact.  their product is even worse than China, who also makes shit steel.

it is just LOVELY if this brings on the Michigan Reniassance, VB.  but as you were once fond of saying, you can't tax your way to success, and tariffs are taxes.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Aug 17, 2018 18:25:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 17, 2018 13:34:14 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

I was a salaried electronics foreman at a now bankrupt steel company for 9 years. I made about $65k. I saw hourly workers make $100k.

how long ago, if you don't mind me asking?

1990 - 1999

[dezii]

Aug 17, 2018 15:25:25 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 14:47:14 GMT -5 dezii said:

There are reasons that countries use tariffs to protect their own citizens livelihoods …

Thinking off the top of my head, France, a nation of small still family farms...operating for centuries in same area,  even same families...unable to compete with the hugh corporation farms, cattle ranches in say the USA  or even in South America..thousands of acres of grass land, gauchos ...also other industries similar...believe we do the same thing.   just saying.

Okay for them to do it to us, but we cannot do it to them..........
End all tariffs

uhhh did I say that? Wait, let me check....

".believe we do the same thing. "

nope , didn't suggest that..Now what protectionist tariffs we apply I haven't any idea....but wouldn't be surprised we have and possible still do.

One of the big advantages that some countries have over us is where manpower is needed to manufacture what ever is wages...there are places, even with the cost of transportation, it is more economical to manufacture over seas then in the States...thinking clothing for example....

It seems we did it to ourselves..thinking of all those old red brick factories in New England, so many near rivers and streams, used to make power,  that are empty now..

[if not being used for art space or converted to apartments]

but at one time hummed with machines making cloth from raw cotton....but silent when those jobs went south ...literally , to our southern states where there were no unions, just lower cost labor... …. ………………………………………….

[dezii]

Aug 17, 2018 15:37:34 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dezi, did you have a brain freeze in post 20?

That is a lot of gray matter there  

[Opti]

Aug 17, 2018 12:31:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 17, 2018 12:11:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

This helps protect and expand jobs that pay upwaards of $100,000 a year or more.
Recently USS also restarted a millin Granite CityIllinois that had been idled a few years ago.

um...no.  line workers in steel make about 50k.  management jobs pay about 75k.  only upper management can expect 6 figures in that industry. 

if you think otherwise, i would like you to document it.

It may be less than that. The only place worse in the Chicago land metro area than $%#% Chicago, is

Gary, Indiana.

Home of horrible bad sulfur smells and a place you were not supposed to go during the day or night.

This is where Michael Jackson grew up.

$%#@ - East side, west side, south side [img]http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif[/img]   The bad part conservatives like to quote so much.

Gary is worse, much much worse.

[Opti]

Aug 17, 2018 15:55:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 15:21:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Yes, it is good, for that limited pool of employees that will work at that mill, and for the community around the mill that will benefit from their patronage.

Just not sure it's a good sign for the rest of us.

I guess in my old age, I am just pulling for that former great city on the lake front, Gary Indiana.
It has fallen on very hard times lately, actually since the 80's...........Most manufacturing jobs have disappeared. The city's tax base and receipts from property taxes are decimated. I think about 60% of property owners even bother paying their property taxes. The city is broke. If USS goes out, it is gone.......
Emerson high school
Roosevelt high school
Lew Wallace highschool
Gary Edison high school
William A. Wirt high school
Froebel highschool-all closed down.
They produced some of our greatest sports figures in Boxing, football, Baseball, track, you name it. Titans of industry came from these halls. Whites, Blacks, Spanish, Jewish, you name it, they were all there.
The school system is about 100 million in debt, most schools closed in the last 20 years, down to one public high school from, I think six, and so broke and disorganized, the state came in, threw out the school board and took over the system. The old schools and the entire modern teaching system were developed by William Wirt almost a 100 years ago. The buildings were filled with art, busts of famous people, etc. Now they are auctioning it all off to help pay the school debt. Some residents are bidding on a select few items to put into  a proposed museum because once gone history of the sytem is lost to Gary.

Part of the deal with USS is the city and school system 25 million dollars to help them out.

I want the city to succeed, thus I am happy to see this investment. 
MAGA

VB, I have never known of Gary, Indiana's great history. As the board knows, I went to Purdue from the 8/78 until roughly May of 1985. It was a known poor black hole then.

[countrygirl2]

Bringing back jobs would be great but you need to pay a living wage.  And big business doesn't want to do that so you have an impasse.  They are looking at the short term thinking this will all go away so why would they build anything here?  I have no idea what will happen, guess time will tell.

[OldCoyote]

Aug 17, 2018 13:55:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 17, 2018 12:49:27 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Regular maintence workers in the mill pull down well over $50,000 a year.
Quit with the misdirection. The op is the President is making America great again, through the tax cuts and now the steel tariffs. I prefer the jobs stay here or be here rather than in China and India.  You can continue buying foreign steel for your operations if you want to.
USS is actually in new contract talks with the union, and this would not be a great time to announce new investments when they want to keep wages as low as possible. The union will use this news in their arguments with USS they can afford the pay increases. 

You're the one misdirecting -You're missing the forest for the trees.

YAH for US steel production - which is about 80,000 jobs.

Sucks for every other US industry that uses steel in their production - want to guess how many millions of workers work for companies that are going to have to pay more for either high priced US steel or high priced imported steel with the new tariffs?  Or do you think that the US steel manufacturers will offer bottom discount sale prices because they're nice guys and don't want to gouge other manufacturers?

Of course, bottom line - it's the Americans who buy products that use steel that will pay more to keep buying them, or just do without, because they're too expensive.

But you go ahead and celebrate those 80,000 steel workers who are now living the American dream! Fuck the rest of us - that's the Trumpian ideal.  #MAGA

Glad to see you are good with continuing to bring in all that Chinese steel!

[djAdvocate]

Aug 17, 2018 20:02:47 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Aug 17, 2018 18:25:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

how long ago, if you don't mind me asking?

1990 - 1999

yeah.  it doesn't surprise me that wages have fallen 50% during that time.

[giramomma]

Aug 17, 2018 13:59:59 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Awesome! 10K more steel employees will get 100,000 per year jobs.

How does that make America great again, if all Americans are paying higher prices for everything made with steel?

Silly. Your problem is you are thinking about actions benefit the greater good.

That's your problem.

Remember ...its 10K more steel workers will get 100K a year for jobs. Screw everyone else!

[Value Buy]

Aug 18, 2018 0:32:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 17, 2018 20:02:47 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

1990 - 1999

yeah.  it doesn't surprise me that wages have fallen 50% during that time.

Not in the mills. read their contracts

[Value Buy]

Aug 17, 2018 21:22:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 17, 2018 15:55:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I guess in my old age, I am just pulling for that former great city on the lake front, Gary Indiana.
It has fallen on very hard times lately, actually since the 80's...........Most manufacturing jobs have disappeared. The city's tax base and receipts from property taxes are decimated. I think about 60% of property owners even bother paying their property taxes. The city is broke. If USS goes out, it is gone.......
Emerson high school
Roosevelt high school
Lew Wallace highschool
Gary Edison high school
William A. Wirt high school
Froebel highschool-all closed down.
They produced some of our greatest sports figures in Boxing, football, Baseball, track, you name it. Titans of industry came from these halls. Whites, Blacks, Spanish, Jewish, you name it, they were all there.
The school system is about 100 million in debt, most schools closed in the last 20 years, down to one public high school from, I think six, and so broke and disorganized, the state came in, threw out the school board and took over the system. The old schools and the entire modern teaching system were developed by William Wirt almost a 100 years ago. The buildings were filled with art, busts of famous people, etc. Now they are auctioning it all off to help pay the school debt. Some residents are bidding on a select few items to put into  a proposed museum because once gone history of the sytem is lost to Gary.

Part of the deal with USS is the city and school system 25 million dollars to help them out.

I want the city to succeed, thus I am happy to see this investment. 
MAGA

VB, I have never known of Gary, Indiana's great history. As the board knows, I went to Purdue from the 8/78 until roughly May of 1985. It was a known poor black hole then.

If anyone is interested, I would suggest googling William Wirt. The educator was light years ahead of his time. He came into Gary when the graduation rate was under 10% because back then, education was not the value needed to make a living it is today. He demanded children learn the arts. He installed orchestra training and the value of teaching art in the schools. He developed a strategy for the schools that would not be found in our much larger major cities. He developed a curriculum and teaching ethic that gained major use throughout the U.S. He valued higher education and pushed the sytem to train the students to excel in the University world and beyond.
As far as Gary being a poor black hole, even at the 1980's, not really true, but was a white person's perspective....... Gary Roosevelt and Froebel were producing many very well educated black students who succeeded in life as business people, lawyers, doctors, etc. I admit the white flight after Mayor Hatcher was elected in 1968 hurt the city immensely. As the years progressed, and blacks moved into all prominent positions of power through out the city, they became entangled in a huge monetary morass (through no fault on their own) where they simply could not supply the services necessary to keep everything running properly, and at that point the more monetarily enabled black middle class started moving to the suburbs, hurting the city, and especially the school system even more. I believe about 70% of the children in the schools sytem receives federal and state assistance.
At least the huge gang wars of a few decades ago are pretty much over with.
As a reference of white flight, when Gary started integrating the schools, it had one all black high school. Gary Roosevelt, in it's central district. Roosevelt had a lengthy history of graduating students with as good of an education level as the white schools in Gary. Gary Edison, Horace Mann, and Froebel to the northwest side of Gary, became integrated as open housing laws were now enforced, and also became predominate black schools in a couple of years. Gary Wallace, on the south side of Gary soon followed, leaving Wirt school on the east side, which was actually in a pocket sort of in an out of the way  area of the city along Lake Michigan, as their only predominate white school. As each area integrated the white families that could afford to, moved to the suburbs, taking their pockebooks with them. There were about four middle schools that fed the high school system, as well as two or three smaller grade schools feeding each middle schools. 
They are all basically closed except a couple, and there are charter schools that have replaced the public shools, but they all have varying degrees of success or failure.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 17, 2018 15:45:49 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Aug 17, 2018 15:10:23 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

IMO American made steel is the highest quality in the world.

I thought it was German steel.

i don;t buy German steel.  i think the US, the Italians, and the Japanese make the best steel in the world.

but i suppose it depends on what KIND of steel you are buying.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 21, 2018 20:10:50 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 17, 2018 21:22:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

VB, I have never known of Gary, Indiana's great history. As the board knows, I went to Purdue from the 8/78 until roughly May of 1985. It was a known poor black hole then.

If anyone is interested, I would suggest googling William Wirt. The educator was light years ahead of his time.

light year is a unit of distance.

edit: Value Buy- you might want to check over at the investment thread.  the stock i just recommended is a Vanadium miner.  Vanadium is an important alloying element in steel.