henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 2, 2011 16:57:51 GMT -5
There seem to be several versions of Obama birth certificates, certificates of live birth and related newspaper clippings floating around on the internet. It's for sure none of them have ever been turned over to anybody by the man himself. Here's a stroy about one. It was published last April 1st by The Harvard Record, Harvard Law School's Independent Newspaper The article rambles on to point out the obvious challenges many hold who have taken one stand or the other regarding Obama's birthplace: Harvard Law School librarians made a stunning discovery in a long-sealed chamber in the basement of Langdell Hall Monday night, when they indicated they had found what they believed to be a copy of President Barack Obama's original certificate of live birth. Individuals who believe the president's extra-American birth invalidates his presidency rapidly seized on the document as further proof for their claims, flocking to courts to seek injunctions on a number of executive orders and bills recently signed into law, including the vaunted health care reform act. HLS archivists said that the birth certificate was "no doubt" the original copy submitted by the sitting President upon his enrollment in the law school in 1988.
Although copies of the President's birth certificate have long been posted online and certified by government officials in his home state, many doubt its provenance, claiming that the online document is merely a "certificattion of live birth" rather than a "birth certificate". Others claim to have seen birth certificates placing Obama's birth in Mombasa, Kenya (Obama's father was a Kenyan citizen), or other foreign locations, such as Indonesia, where Obama lived as a child. The President's political opponents occasionally mock him as a "citizen of the British Empire," a reference to Kenya's status in 1961, the year of his birth.
These so-called "birthers" were stunned but unfazed when the Harvard Law School copy of the birth certificate pointed them not to Kenya, Indonesia, or some other site of speculation, but the Pacific Ocean island chain of Hawaii. "I knew it," wrote blogger ObamaIzaF8ke2273. "Obama was born outside the United States. We just didn't know exactly where. Until now."
The Hawaiian Islands, which lack pro sports teams, are literally off the radar screen for many Americans. In the wake of the tsunami warnings issued for the islands after the devastating earthquake in Chile in February, even CNN anchor Rick Sanchez could not locate the islands on a map, instead pointing to the Galapagos, an Ecuadorian possession several hundred nautical miles to the southeast. The fact the Hawaii appears to float in a box next to the lower 48 American states on maps has made the location of the archipelago all the more inscrutable for the U.S.' geographically-challenged populace.
The islands' long and complex history also makes their current political status confusing for many Americans, who are not aware of their place in the international system. A National Geographic survey released in 2008 indicated that there was a shocking correlation between those who could not attest to the system of government in Hawaii and those who believed that the government of Alaska conducted an independent foreign policy.
"The evidence is now clear," wrote a commenter on the influential conservative website RedState.com Wednesday. "Obama is no American. He's the subject of the Hawaiian king." I personally couldn't care less where he was born. His daddy wasn't an American. That single hard fact blocks presidential qualifications in the Constitution. If anyone wants to read the article above in it's "online" form click on the link below. The comments that follow the article are about as reliable as the article itself. Maybe that's because the article was probably written by young lawyers: www.hlrecord.org/news/original-obama-birth-certificate-unearthed-in-harvard-law-school-library-1.1293452?firstComment=20
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 2, 2011 17:04:32 GMT -5
There seem to be several versions of Obama birth certificates, certificates of live birth and related newspaper clippings floating around on the internet. It's for sure none of them have ever been turned over to anybody by the man himself. Here's a stroy about one. It was published last April 1st by The Harvard Record, Harvard Law School's Independent Newspaper The article rambles on to point out the obvious challenges many hold who have taken one stand or the other regarding Obama's birthplace: Harvard Law School librarians made a stunning discovery in a long-sealed chamber in the basement of Langdell Hall Monday night, when they indicated they had found what they believed to be a copy of President Barack Obama's original certificate of live birth. Individuals who believe the president's extra-American birth invalidates his presidency rapidly seized on the document as further proof for their claims, flocking to courts to seek injunctions on a number of executive orders and bills recently signed into law, including the vaunted health care reform act. HLS archivists said that the birth certificate was "no doubt" the original copy submitted by the sitting President upon his enrollment in the law school in 1988.
Although copies of the President's birth certificate have long been posted online and certified by government officials in his home state, many doubt its provenance, claiming that the online document is merely a "certificattion of live birth" rather than a "birth certificate". Others claim to have seen birth certificates placing Obama's birth in Mombasa, Kenya (Obama's father was a Kenyan citizen), or other foreign locations, such as Indonesia, where Obama lived as a child. The President's political opponents occasionally mock him as a "citizen of the British Empire," a reference to Kenya's status in 1961, the year of his birth.
These so-called "birthers" were stunned but unfazed when the Harvard Law School copy of the birth certificate pointed them not to Kenya, Indonesia, or some other site of speculation, but the Pacific Ocean island chain of Hawaii. "I knew it," wrote blogger ObamaIzaF8ke2273. "Obama was born outside the United States. We just didn't know exactly where. Until now."
The Hawaiian Islands, which lack pro sports teams, are literally off the radar screen for many Americans. In the wake of the tsunami warnings issued for the islands after the devastating earthquake in Chile in February, even CNN anchor Rick Sanchez could not locate the islands on a map, instead pointing to the Galapagos, an Ecuadorian possession several hundred nautical miles to the southeast. The fact the Hawaii appears to float in a box next to the lower 48 American states on maps has made the location of the archipelago all the more inscrutable for the U.S.' geographically-challenged populace.
The islands' long and complex history also makes their current political status confusing for many Americans, who are not aware of their place in the international system. A National Geographic survey released in 2008 indicated that there was a shocking correlation between those who could not attest to the system of government in Hawaii and those who believed that the government of Alaska conducted an independent foreign policy.
"The evidence is now clear," wrote a commenter on the influential conservative website RedState.com Wednesday. "Obama is no American. He's the subject of the Hawaiian king." I personally couldn't care less where he was born. His daddy wasn't an American. That single hard fact blocks presidential qualifications in the Constitution. If anyone wants to read the article above in it's "online" form go here: www.hlrecord.org/news/original-obama-birth-certificate-unearthed-in-harvard-law-school-library-1.1293452?firstComment=20College humor.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 2, 2011 17:06:44 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 2, 2011 17:12:17 GMT -5
Pun intended?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 2, 2011 17:15:12 GMT -5
I refuse to answer on the grounds it may blow my cover.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 2, 2011 17:17:46 GMT -5
I refuse to answer on the grounds it may blow my cover. You have cover?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2011 17:22:30 GMT -5
"That single hard fact blocks presidential qualifications in the Constitution. "
Did you write your own copy of the constitution? ... lol
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 2, 2011 17:28:35 GMT -5
:....... You have cover? ..."
It's a little threadbare, but by golly it's mine.
"........ Did you write your own copy of the constitution?......"
Sure, didn't you?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 2, 2011 18:56:37 GMT -5
I know facts don't sway anyone in the throws of hatred so deep that it will make them believe anything that validates their hatred but can't we just at least get the fact straight on the simple thing? President Obama couldn't have been born in Kenya period because there WAS NO KENYA TO BE BORN IN IN 1961!!! And many states including Connecticut only issue certifcates of registration of birth. There is no other birth certificate to see! When I needed a raised seal one to get a passport I got a certified copy type birth certificate to use just like all you people seem to think is strange. My kids who were born in NJ only ever had issued a birth certificate that looks exactly like mine and the one for the President's. But clearly we must all really be Martians posing as Americans.
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Apr 2, 2011 19:56:33 GMT -5
No you don't, where's your REAL birth certificate?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 2, 2011 20:22:09 GMT -5
Maybe there is something in this that has not been discussed. Let's see.
Suppose an American woman, a citizen of the United States, gives birth inside the United States.
Is there any circumstance that would deny her child, from birth on, the qualifications to later be president of the United States?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2011 20:31:16 GMT -5
no
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 2, 2011 20:39:01 GMT -5
"....no......"
Is there any provision of law involved in your reply, and if so, what provision?
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Apr 2, 2011 22:24:06 GMT -5
The images on FactCheck (link on page one) show what appears to be a copy (top image) and what appears to be an original(bottom image). Has the original ever been shown in public? The reason I ask is if you click on the image to open a full view then magnify I think its pretty obvious that some of the printed letters are superimposed onto the document background. The top part and the state seal look ok but the pertinent information is suspect.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 2, 2011 22:53:44 GMT -5
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 2, 2011 23:06:25 GMT -5
you are both going in circles again. didn't we discuss these specific points the last time this came up?
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Apr 2, 2011 23:08:44 GMT -5
Quite the level of detailed analysis presented there Mr. henryclay. A good little story to begin the presentation as well. Would like to get my hands on the vandal and squeeze the life out him.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 2, 2011 23:14:40 GMT -5
Hello Chivers. I believe you chastised me unmercifully yesterday because I wouldn't feed you the answers you wanted to get , , , or something like that. Now I'm posing a question in #259. Do you have an answer you'd care to disclose here?
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Apr 2, 2011 23:25:12 GMT -5
Do you have an answer you'd care to disclose here?
The answer is yes if the father was not a US citizen, like an African for example.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 7:11:45 GMT -5
I'm sorry burns... How do you explain all those anchor babies, given that NEITHER of their parents are US citizens? Any baby born in the United States is born a citizen... regardless of parental citizenship... so how could a child born in the US of a US citizen, ever not be a citizen at birth?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 7:15:28 GMT -5
lmao... I like this part "Using copies of the images I digitally enhanced and modified the scans " Copies of scanned images that were enhanced and modified... good analysis there... lol... There are many officials who have held the ACTUAL document in their hands and verified it... I think i'll go with them, and not the analysis of enhanced and modified copies of scanned images... lol
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 3, 2011 8:50:28 GMT -5
Hello Chivers. I believe you chastised me unmercifully yesterday because I wouldn't feed you the answers you wanted to get , , , or something like that. Now I'm posing a question in #259. Do you have an answer you'd care to disclose here? I answered this on the first page, thanks. reply #12.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Apr 3, 2011 9:23:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry burns... How do you explain all those anchor babies, given that NEITHER of their parents are US citizens? Any baby born in the United States is born a citizen...
I agree. The issue is if the mother was a US citizen, the father was not and the baby was born outside the US. I think some people maintain that Obama is a US citizen regardless if he was born outside the US because the mother was American (and lived in the US for at least 5 years). This is not the case according to the Constitution. It has the be the father having US citizenship. Kind of "sexist" today but that is how it is written nonetheless. This is all moot if he was actually born in Hawaii though but this has not been proven 100%.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 3, 2011 9:25:03 GMT -5
I'm sorry burns... How do you explain all those anchor babies, given that NEITHER of their parents are US citizens? Any baby born in the United States is born a citizen...I agree. The issue is if the mother was a US citizen, the father was not and the baby was born outside the US. I think some people maintain that Obama is a US citizen regardless if he was born outside the US because the mother was American (and lived in the US for at least 5 years). This is not the case according to the Constitution. It has the be the father having US citizenship. Kind of "sexist" today but that is how it is written nonetheless. This is all moot if he was actually born in Hawaii though but this has not been proven 100%. how has this not been proven 100%? seriously. are you looking for a video of the birth, with Mauna Loa in the background?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 3, 2011 9:27:11 GMT -5
Thank you chiver. But I can't get a clear answer from that post. It's a simple question. There's no need to complicate it or include perpheral verbage. A baby is born. Are there any circumstances of that birth that might give rise to whether the child is endowed with the constitutional qualifications to be president?
Now if oped would tell us her reasoning we might have a real convesration.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 9:29:22 GMT -5
Ok... then i think you misread what henry said and it looked like you were responding to... he referred to his post where he asked if there was any way a child born in the US to a US citizen would not be eligible for being President.
But actually, the constitution does NOT spell out what natural born means. And i do think that as long as you are born to a citizen, regardless of where you are born, or the citizenship of the other parent, that you are a citizen at birth... so natural born. I do think this is grey area though, and it would be nice to have it legally set down... but currently it is not, certainly not in the constitution. I have only read some of the case law though, so i'm not sure what precedence there is if any?
And his being born in Hawaii HAS been proven 100%... the Hawaiian officials have verified it, as have other sources... its just that for some reason people do not want to believe it? ... I'm not sure why ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 9:30:19 GMT -5
Henry... are you suggesting that a baby born IN the United States, TO a United States Citizen... is NOT a Natural Born Citizen?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 3, 2011 9:34:23 GMT -5
oped and henry, I don't think I misread it. I'm just annoyed that he (and others) are asking the same question over and over, with different words, in a mission to get an answer they like.
henry, I don't see what's unclear about someone being born on US soil being a natural-born US citizen, regardless of the citizenship of either parent. the 14th Amendment clearly says that anyone born on US soil is a US citizen. end of story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 9:38:26 GMT -5
I was talking to burns about the misread thing... sorry, i should learn to use quotes or address someone specifically
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Apr 3, 2011 9:39:47 GMT -5
how has this not been proven 100%?
I'm not an expert on the issue but those images on FactCheck - is that the representative from FactCheck holding the COPY of the certificate? Concerning the original, nobody is holding it and it appears the pertinent information print is superimposed. Can you give me your opinion on this?
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