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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 3, 2011 18:04:17 GMT -5
Ok then if you don't like the data in my reply 306
What is a natural-born citizen in US?
Then pls provide your answer to this question if you don't like or agree with what I posted...thanx in advance for your answer and I believe this discussion is about the "Birther"claims pertaining to President Barrack Hussein Obama..the 44th President of these United States..
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 3, 2011 18:06:51 GMT -5
how many times do we have to answer the same question? the content isn't going to change.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 3, 2011 18:09:36 GMT -5
Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as President of the United States: “ No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ” The grandfather provision of the "natural born Citizen" clause provided an exception to the "natural born" requirement for those persons who were citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. (The first several Presidents prior to Martin van Buren as well as potential Presidential candidates such as Alexander Hamilton were born as British subjects in British America before the American Revolution and this grandfather clause would cover them.)[1] Additionally, the Twelfth Amendment states that: "[N]o person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." The Fourteenth Amendment does not use the phrase "natural born citizen". It does provide that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 3, 2011 18:10:08 GMT -5
What is a natural-born citizen in US? Originally published April 1, 2011 at 5:39 p.m., updated April 2, 2011 at 3:30 p.m. Editor, the Advocate: Who is qualified to be president of the United States? The U.S. Constitution itself gives proof of that. Article II, Section 1:5 says that only a natural-born citizen is eligible for office of the president. Article I, Section 8 says that Congress (under authority granted by the people) has the power to punish offenses against the Law of Nations. The Law of Nations says that a natural-born citizen is one whom is born in the country of parents, both of whom are citizens of that country. So even if Obama was born on the steps of the White House, because his father is a British subject, this in itself makes Obama ineligible to hold the office of U.S. president. www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2011/apr/01/vp_ltr_boehl_040311_134616/?viewpointsWhat does the Law of Nations actually say? § 212. Citizens and natives. The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01.htm
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 3, 2011 18:12:01 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 3, 2011 18:11:53 GMT -5
Well, if you're sand bagging somethin that'd lend to the discusshun yer not playin fahr. Y'know that. "........ Okay, what is his definition of "natural born Citizen"? ......." Tell ya what, bills. If I was to give you a answer, you'd sure as shootin' find a link that disputed it, so this time I think I'll pass and jus let you worry over what my answer might ah was. Okay? An I know yer gonna worry it, too.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 3, 2011 18:12:50 GMT -5
Barack Obama (born 1961), 44th president of the United States, was born in Honolulu, Hawaii to a U.S. citizen mother and a British subject father from what was then the Kenya Colony of the United Kingdom (which became the independent country of Kenya in 1963). Before and after the 2008 presidential election, arguments were made that he is not a natural born citizen. On June 12, 2008, the Obama presidential campaign launched a website to counter what it described as smears by his opponents, including conspiracy theories challenging his eligibility.[74] The most prominent issue raised against Obama was the claim made in several lawsuits that he was not actually born in Hawaii. In two other lawsuits, the plaintiffs argued that it was irrelevant whether he was born in Hawaii,[75] but argued instead that he was nevertheless not a natural born citizen because his citizenship status at birth was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948.[76] The relevant courts have either denied all applications or declined to render a judgment due to lack of jurisdiction. Some of the cases have been dismissed because of the plaintiff's lack of standing.[34] On July 28, 2009, Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying, "I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen."[77] On July 27, 2009, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.Res. 593, commemorating the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood, including the text, "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961."[78] The vote passed 378-0.[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 3, 2011 18:13:48 GMT -5
"......are you suggesting that international law should ALWAYS be used to define/superceed American law?..... "
Maybe what you're missing is that at that time there WAS no American law. The gentlemen who were writing the basism for all American laws looked for references that they could include in their writing. In this case, and undoubtedly numerous others, they chose an interntional thereom of recognized law to rely on. One that has been recognized down through the ages.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 18:14:35 GMT -5
I did. A natural born citizen is a person who is a citizen at birth. They do not have to go through the naturalization process, because they are BORN citizens. People are citizens at birth if they are born in our country, no matter what nationality their parents. (so even if both Obama's parents were African, he would STILL qualify)... People are citizens of the United States if they have a parent who is a US citizen who has resided in the United States... no matter where they might be born... there is NO residency requirement for children in these situations, they are not naturalized, they have citizenship by right of their BIRTH to a United States citizen.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 3, 2011 18:17:02 GMT -5
On July 27, 2009, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.Res. 593, commemorating the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood, including the text, "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961."[78] The vote passed 378-0.[79]
Ok would this pretty much seal the deal unless there is another case that can prove Obama is NOT a natural born citizen or his birth certifcate is bogus...and the beat goes on until the 2012 elections I suppose to keep hope alive or more likely to creat doubts in the mind of enough voters to turn away from Obama would be my best guess
And if Herr Goebbels were around today he would probably say:
Das is sehr nicht gut..
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 3, 2011 19:00:39 GMT -5
"............. doubts in the mind of enough voters to turn away from Obama ........"
It's already happening. People have worked their hearts out for Obama. They have taken abuse right and left for it, and yet they have stood by him. The examples on this thread are examples.
But the truth is coming out. States are getting into the act of demanding more from the candidates. When all the facades Obama has built around himself fall away and he has nothing more to hide behind or under, all those previously ardent supporters are going to quit him in multituds. They may not go for anybody else, but they will sure as sunrise turn their distaste loose on Obama when they begin to recognize how complete the scam has been and how uttertly contemptous he has been in showing respect for their efforts. He could have prevented every bit of it if he had been square with them. The people who have been his base of support will be his downfall.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 3, 2011 19:06:48 GMT -5
By today's standards, all of the commas in the first sentence are grammatical errors.
You obviously saw what I did: that whether the third clause is tied to the second or to the fourth makes a huge difference in the interpretation. But this seems to be one case where the consensus is in the birthers' favour.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 3, 2011 19:12:22 GMT -5
Henry Clay....Obama's democratic base in California is fractured big time because of Odyssey Dawn, and his fund raising trips out here. He is wining and dining too much with Democratic High Rollers and the Liberal Elite which has been costing him support by the progressive wing of the Democratic Party in Northern California. And now Nancy Pelosi has the task to mend these broken fences by 2012..
And if this is happening in other big cities across the country, then he is in big trouble IMHO..
Even Willy Brown who is one savy old democratic pundit thinks Obama's re election chances are at risk..but isn't ready to throw in the towel just yet.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 19:13:17 GMT -5
Thanks for being outraged on my behalf henry... lol...
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 3, 2011 19:40:52 GMT -5
You're more than welcome, oped. Obama learned early that people would follow him if he made them the right promises. Even as he was building his base among them he was a bully. His record as an Illinois Senator showed more of it by his absenteeism, missing votes and votes of "present" on things that concerned his own constituents. To me a bully is cometemptible enough, but a bully with power is below contempt. I am waiting for the day he finds that out for real.
But make no mistake about it. Obama is still a young man. He has the potential to be another George Soros, maybe without as much money, but on steroids. At his age he will be able to do more harm to this country over a period of years as a former president loose cannon with third world contacts than he can ever do during the short time he is spending in the White House.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 3, 2011 19:43:35 GMT -5
You're more than welcome, oped. Obama learned early that people would follow him if he made them the right promises. Even as he was building his base among them he was a bully. His record as an Illinois Senator showed more of it by his absenteeism, missing votes and votes of "present" on things that concerned his own constituents. To me a bully is cometemptible enough, but a bully with power is below contempt. I am waiting for the day he finds that out for real. But make no mistake about it. Obama is still a young man. He has the potential to be another George Soros, maybe without as much money, but on steroids. He will be able to do more harm to this country as a former president loose cannon with third world contacts than he can ever do from the White House. henry, I think I found a hat of yours...
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 3, 2011 19:49:13 GMT -5
Nope, chiver. Not mine. Mine's right across the room on a hat rack. It says, "I was on top but I'm on my way down now".
But thanks for the offer.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 4, 2011 10:38:26 GMT -5
Well, well. Lookie here. And in the ninth circuit, too. The NINTH!!! Does that mean anything to anybody? LOL! This made me laugh. I think you don't know what it means to be the ninth circuit court, because otherwise you wouldn't be making such a big deal out of the fact that it is ninth. It has nothing to do with the number of appeals or the order in which you go through the court system, it is just the way they number the courts. There are 13 circuit courts of appeals & they each cover a different jurisdiction within the US. But, I'm glad you are so excited that the case ended up in the ninth circuit court. THE NINTH!!!!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 4, 2011 10:46:08 GMT -5
Well, well. Lookie here. And in the ninth circuit, too. The NINTH!!! Does that mean anything to anybody? LOL! This made me laugh. I think you don't know what it means to be the ninth circuit court, because otherwise you wouldn't be making such a big deal out of the fact that it is ninth. It has nothing to do with the number of appeals or the order in which you go through the court system, it is just the way they number the courts. There are 13 circuit courts of appeals & they each cover a different jurisdiction within the US. But, I'm glad you are so excited that the case ended up in the ninth circuit court. THE NINTH!!!! I think this is what he was referring to: SHOCKER! The most liberal appeals court in the land (9th Circuit ...Feb 17, 2011 ... The most liberal appeals court in the land (9th Circuit-CA) says ... barenakedislam.wordpress.com/.../shocker-the-most-liberal-appeals-court-in-the-land-9th-circuit-ca-says-hamas-supporter-can-be-deported/
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 4, 2011 11:23:11 GMT -5
LOL! This made me laugh. I think you don't know what it means to be the ninth circuit court, because otherwise you wouldn't be making such a big deal out of the fact that it is ninth. It has nothing to do with the number of appeals or the order in which you go through the court system, it is just the way they number the courts. There are 13 circuit courts of appeals & they each cover a different jurisdiction within the US. But, I'm glad you are so excited that the case ended up in the ninth circuit court. THE NINTH!!!! I think this is what he was referring to: SHOCKER! The most liberal appeals court in the land (9th Circuit ...Feb 17, 2011 ... The most liberal appeals court in the land (9th Circuit-CA) says ... barenakedislam.wordpress.com/.../shocker-the-most-liberal-appeals-court-in-the-land-9th-circuit-ca-says-hamas-supporter-can-be-deported/ Ah, I guess that may have been what he meant. If it was, then perhaps he should have explained because I am guessing most people didn't catch that.
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 4, 2011 13:23:39 GMT -5
Oh for pete's sake who cares what the founders did or didn't want with respect to children's parents citizenship having an effect on the child who was born in the US's citizenship? The 14th amendment was almost 100 hunderd years later and it clearly states than anyone born on US soil is a US citizen period. Now get over it already, he won.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 4, 2011 22:40:18 GMT -5
Curious that a comma is placed after "Citizen of the United States". Why? Keep reading, it makes perfects sense- "at the time of the adoption of this Constitution" Nobody was a citizen of the United States until there was one.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Apr 7, 2011 8:21:07 GMT -5
<<< Why doesn't Obama just produce his ceritificate? >>> ...because he doesn't love the muscleup?
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Apr 7, 2011 8:36:00 GMT -5
We all have our doubts.
We? Maybe you but not necessarily we.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 7, 2011 8:37:57 GMT -5
Who is we?? Muscle Up & Donald Trump & Kathie Griffin?? BTW Donald Trump was on MSNBC today and said he will provide proof in a few days that proves Obama was not born in Hawaii because his team of private investigator can not find any hospital records to back up his birth certificate.. Notice I said private investigator and NOT private investor..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 8:43:10 GMT -5
Excellent question.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 7, 2011 8:43:58 GMT -5
Obama is our first foreign born president. Donald Trump wants to have Obama refute all the evidence he has that proves beyond a shadow of doubt that Obama was not born in the USA
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Post by floridayankee on Apr 7, 2011 8:48:38 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 7, 2011 8:48:56 GMT -5
Actually Mr. Trump is not accurate in his statement that not finding "A" proves "B".
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 7, 2011 8:51:56 GMT -5
IM(notso)HO, Trump wants attention. (If a deep-seeded psychological need can be said to be a "want.)
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