AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 31, 2011 12:09:24 GMT -5
ignorant, brainwashed, pub dupe o'reilly believes "without a shadow of doubt" that obama was born here. he pressed trump pretty hard on that issue last night on his show. i would think that trump would be an ignorant pub dupe too, since he is rich and all of the rich are brain dead pub dupes. Well, that and he is a registered Republican after all...
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 39,450
|
Post by chiver78 on Mar 31, 2011 12:11:35 GMT -5
There are two ways to be born a citizen of the United States. One is to be Native born, which is where anchor babies, born inside the United States, of illegal aliens fit. The other way is to be Natural Born which is different and is THE primary qualification to become president. Which one fiits Obama? Does any liberal even know the difference? Or if they do know, why does it not matter to them? Or if it doesn't matter to them, what else in the Constitution also doesn't matter to them? since we clearly do not comprehend this as you do, please enlighten us. I believe I've asked this on birther threads before, and have never gotten an answer. if I'm supposed to comment on something that I do not understand, as you keep telling me I don't, then please explain it to me. I posted my thoughts on natural-born citizens earlier, between what's in the Constitution proper as well as the 14th Amendment. if there is something additional that I should be considering, well then, I'm all ears.
|
|
safeharbor37
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 23:18:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,290
|
Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 31, 2011 12:13:22 GMT -5
I heard one of Trump's interview [or excerpt from one] and it was clear to me that Trump was not so much questioning Obama's citizenship as he was questioning Obama's [or Obama's staff, relatives, friends, et.] failure to "lay to rest" the controversy. From my point of view: I think that his mother being a US Citizen is sufficient for his citizenship and so I think we ought to go on to other things. Also, it simply plays into the hands of those who may actually have something to hide. Someone mentioned that HIllary's campaign first brought up the issue and, if there had been any evidence of faked citizenship, the Clinton Machine would have found it. That makes sense to me. Still, Obama's birth and subsequent life has been so unusual that people are bound to question it, or aspects of it. It is rather odd that so few admit to having known Obama growing up. Usually, that's fodder for articles, TV specials, etc., but not in the case of the most news-worthy Obama. Part of the problem is obviously that many of his associates throughout his life are potentially embarrassing. It is odd to me not so much because Obama doesn't provide more information, but that "investigators" don't show more interest. It's quite possible that Obama simply moved about a lot and didn't make a lot of life-long friends [similar to "Army brats"] and/or was/is pretty much a "loner." Two points: I don't think that Trump is a "birther" and, the issue isn't going to have any traction except with those who already have their minds made up ~ so ~ best to let it drop [fat chance!].
|
|
|
Post by marshabar1 on Mar 31, 2011 12:14:08 GMT -5
The man is very mysterious indeed. Now it turns out his Selective Service card has a never issued social security number on it. Of course the media is making it a birther story and the retired Air Force Colonel who accessed the information by pretending to be Obama will be punished, but the story is that: BARACK OBAMA'S SELECTIVE SERVICE CARD HAS A FALSE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER ON IT.Will he be investigated? Is this illegal? Will he be punished? I won't hold my breath. www.gazette.com/articles/springs-115381-colorado-obama.html#ixzz1I8FEnO5b
|
|
|
Post by dmsm on Mar 31, 2011 12:14:10 GMT -5
OMG another Birther thread. You guys are really grabbing at straws.
|
|
rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Mar 31, 2011 12:15:55 GMT -5
Trump is simply asking an obvious question. Why would Obama let this thing drag on for over two years without resolving the question quickly and personally? Instead he chose to spend millions in lawyer fees to fight any investigation. It simply gives the appearance and reason to believe that there is something wrong regardless whether there is or not. If everything is up to snuff then this was and is a very strategic mistake on his part and makes one question his intellect. For me it should provide a wake up call to all states that moving forward they need to make sure a procedure is in place that very clearly outlines how this REQUIREMENT is verified since it seems like the states have really not been verifying anyones qualifications before putting people on the ballot. Trump has many faults but this question is just common sense and is something that most have to do before getting a drivers license, enrolling kid in school or applying for a passport.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Sept 28, 2024 16:00:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 12:16:02 GMT -5
"BARACK OBAMA'S SELECTIVE SERVICE CARD HAS A FALSE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER ON IT."
Are we sure he isn't Mexican?
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Mar 31, 2011 12:17:25 GMT -5
There are two ways to be born a citizen of the United States. One is to be Native born, which is where anchor babies, born inside the United States, of illegal aliens fit. The other way is to be Natural Born which is different and is THE primary qualification to become president. Which one fiits Obama? Does any liberal even know the deifference? Or if they do know, why does it not matter to them? Or if it doesn't matter to them, what else in the Constitution also doesn't matter to them? Why have the birthers been so bad at proving it, if it is a straightforward constitutional definition issue? Is Obama that powerful? No kidding. The supreme court has dismissed 3 cases & a dozen or so others have been thrown out of lower courts. If this is a straight constitutional issue, then why can't anyone prove it?
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Mar 31, 2011 12:24:31 GMT -5
|
|
burnsattornincan
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:05:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,398
|
Post by burnsattornincan on Mar 31, 2011 12:25:00 GMT -5
Facts don't have any relevance when it comes to Burns' beliefs.
Dear Madame, "Fact" is my second name. It is a fact the original translation of what she said was that she was there at his birth. Only then did others rush to correct the translation, ones that probably knew the impact of what she just said.
Lets be honest. You have no idea where he was born and neither do I. People behind the scenes can make anything look like anything they want. There are thousands of people working on it 24/7. There is good evidence to support either theory. I'm just going with my best educated guess considering all the information available. /Dalton
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 31, 2011 12:25:47 GMT -5
I have met "The Donald" on three separate occasions. Twice I was able to question him directly about some things. I've only ever met two other people that are in the category of human being that he is in. The qualities that make him successful are not necessarily definable. He has a certain "it" that you will recognize the second you meet someone that has "it". Here's my summation of a possible Trump Presidency:
He will run if he things he can win. If he runs he will run away with the nomination- it won't be close, and he will absolutely trounce the Democrat nominee (should Barrack Obama fail to meet the ballot requirements in 7 states that now require a long form birth certificate as evidence of Constitutional eligibility).
Personally, I believe Barack Obama is a natural born citizen. I believe that he is deliberately holding out as long as he can legally hold out on producing a long form birth certificate because of a very specific Alinsky tactic to make his opponents appear "crazy" and to "marginalize" them.
From Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" #13 reads: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
Don't address or answer the question. Instead, ridicule and marginalize your opponent, like an immature, petulant child. Don't seek truth, call your adversary names.
My guess is that Obama believes that the longer he can hold out on this matter, the crazier he can make his opponents appear. Then, in one fell swoop, with the release of his birth certificate he can prove them all wrong (and crazy). Not a bad strategy for someone who is a completely unethical, means-to-an-end kind of tertiary politician without a soul, or a care for the country he serves.
To me the bigger question isn't where was he born, it is, "Is this man, Barrack Hussein Obama, a traitor and a revolutionary?"
"Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday." -- Letter from L. DAVID ALINSKY, son of Neo-Marxist Saul Alinsky
From Hillary, Obama and the Cult of Alinsky: "True revolutionaries do not flaunt their radicalism, Alinsky taught. They cut their hair, put on suits and infiltrate the system from within. Alinsky viewed revolution as a slow, patient process. The trick was to penetrate existing institutions such as churches, unions and political parties....
"One Alinsky benefactor was Wall Street investment banker Eugene Meyer, who served as Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1930 to 1933. Meyer and his wife Agnes co-owned The Washington Post. They used their newspaper to promote Alinsky....Her series, called 'The Orderly Revolution', made Alinsky famous....
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Sept 28, 2024 16:00:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 12:26:54 GMT -5
Lets be honest. You have no idea where he was born and neither do I. People behind the scenes can make anything look like anything they want. There are thousands of people working on it 24/7. This why it won't go away... Hell, I may be getting paid by the Obama camp to post on the internet that Obama is a citizen.
|
|
rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Mar 31, 2011 12:31:54 GMT -5
Very true indeed. Certainly no one on this board knows the true answer to this question except possible his family so people accusing others of ignorance are only promoting their own. As I said what has happened is over but every state has an obligation to make sure that moving forward any one with their name on the ballot meets the requirements.
|
|
burnsattornincan
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:05:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,398
|
Post by burnsattornincan on Mar 31, 2011 12:33:24 GMT -5
My guess is that Obama believes that the longer he can hold out on this matter, the crazier he can make his opponents appear. Then, in one fell swoop, with the release of his birth certificate he can prove them all wrong
I haven't considered that angle before but given some thought you might be correct.
|
|
henryclay
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 5, 2011 19:03:37 GMT -5
Posts: 3,685
|
Post by henryclay on Mar 31, 2011 12:33:40 GMT -5
But your answer doesn't address the question. Instead, it just kicks the can further down the road. It IS a Constitutional issue and like you, no one has addressed it in each refusal to hear any of the several cases you mention.
So, like others so far, as long as the can will take it, just kick it further down the road.
But it's not the way it should be handled. And it does raise the question about what "else" is in the Constitution that also doesn't matter.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Sept 28, 2024 16:00:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 12:35:16 GMT -5
And it does raise the question about what "else" is in the Constitution that also doesn't matter. Citizen's rights to bare arms doesn't matter and hopefully that right will be stripped by the courts soon.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Mar 31, 2011 12:36:00 GMT -5
Then why do you consider anecdotal evidence over actual evidence? As a lawyer, I would think you would be well-versed in knowing the difference?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 31, 2011 12:36:16 GMT -5
It's very clear that Trump doesn't take issue with Obama's citizenship, either. Like me, he is disgusted with the President's child-like handling of the issue in failing to put it to rest.
Trump is like a dog with a bone. Obama's strategy is going to backfire. Obama's popularity dropped four points this month to a record low, and Trump- who isn't even on the ballot- is tied with Obama in a hypothetical dead heat.
|
|
|
Post by marshabar1 on Mar 31, 2011 12:37:53 GMT -5
When a child is adopted under Hawaiian law a name change is mandatory. The name Soetero is on the birth certificate unless Obama legally changed it back to Obama. I think all the mess about the name might have something to do with this situation.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 39,450
|
Post by chiver78 on Mar 31, 2011 12:38:47 GMT -5
But your answer doesn't address the question. Instead, it just kicks the can further down the road. It IS a Constitutional issue and like you, no one has addressed it in each refusal to hear any of the several cases you mention. So, like others so far, as long as the can will take it, just kick it further down the road. But it's not the way it should be handled. And it does raise the question about what "else" is in the Constitution that also doesn't matter. I'm assuming this is directed at me, since I asked you a question. of course I didn't answer a question, I asked one of my own....which you still haven't answered. care to address my question? thanks....
|
|
henryclay
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 5, 2011 19:03:37 GMT -5
Posts: 3,685
|
Post by henryclay on Mar 31, 2011 12:46:30 GMT -5
".......... care to address my question? thanks.... "
Sorry, but you referred to something you apparently wrote in the past and I have not read. Therefore I can't answer until you present me the thing I am supposed to respond to.
Okay?
And no, it was not directed at you. It was directed at Angel D, but several posts were made before I could get it up.
|
|
burnsattornincan
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:05:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,398
|
Post by burnsattornincan on Mar 31, 2011 12:47:08 GMT -5
Then why do you consider anecdotal evidence over actual evidence?
The only "actual" evidence available is an uncertified copy of a live birth document. You could maybe consider the newspaper from 1961 as actual evidence but I don't know if its been properly dated by a qualified authority. The microfiche? Not sure about that one.
|
|
henryclay
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 5, 2011 19:03:37 GMT -5
Posts: 3,685
|
Post by henryclay on Mar 31, 2011 12:49:19 GMT -5
Native born vs Natural born?
Anyone?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Sept 28, 2024 16:00:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 12:50:26 GMT -5
Native born vs Natural born? Anyone? I think I am, but it could be just a fabrication.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Mar 31, 2011 12:50:58 GMT -5
Then why do you consider anecdotal evidence over actual evidence?The only "actual" evidence available is an uncertified copy of a live birth document. No, it is a real official birth certificate, raised seal, signature & everything. See the website I posted earlier.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Mar 31, 2011 12:53:49 GMT -5
But your answer doesn't address the question. Instead, it just kicks the can further down the road. It IS a Constitutional issue and like you, no one has addressed it in each refusal to hear any of the several cases you mention. They aren't hearing the cases because there is no evidence & the cases are a waste of the courts time. It isn't their job to hear every single lawsuit in full if they know from the start that the case has no merit.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Mar 31, 2011 12:57:07 GMT -5
Native born vs Natural born? Anyone? This is what Chiver asked you to explain. She posted the constitutional references to natural citizenship. So, explain your position. You want to actually debate the topic, then provide some evidence as to why you are correct. Just throwing around words without backing up your claims is not really supporting your position at all.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 39,450
|
Post by chiver78 on Mar 31, 2011 12:58:59 GMT -5
Native born vs Natural born? Anyone? This is what Chiver asked you to explain. She posted the constitutional references to natural citizenship. So, explain your position. You want to actually debate the topic, then provide some evidence as to why you are correct. Just throwing around words without backing up your claims is not really supporting your position at all. thanks, Angel. he was too busy snapping at me to realize I'd asked him something, I guess.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 31, 2011 12:59:21 GMT -5
But your answer doesn't address the question. Instead, it just kicks the can further down the road. It IS a Constitutional issue and like you, no one has addressed it in each refusal to hear any of the several cases you mention. They aren't hearing the cases because there is no evidence & the cases are a waste of the courts time. It isn't their job to hear every single lawsuit in full if they know from the start that the case has no merit. That is inaccurate. The Supreme Court said that the job of determining citizenship / eligibility is that of the states and the Parties, and not elected officials.
|
|
rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Mar 31, 2011 13:02:11 GMT -5
Angel D, Can we agree that that at the least all states should verify that candidates meet the requirement before being put on the ballot?
|
|