"Women Must Submit"

[Green Eyed Lady]

May 12, 2018 12:24:51 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

May 2, 2018 14:50:36 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

The whole point of my post was that he hasn't changed his outlook, only what he "might" advise an abuse victim to do or how to react.  He still advocates for NO divorce......
Just curious, how close have you ever come to seeing or being in an abusive relationship?   I was in a verbal one for many years, it never escalated beyond that due to how I reacted, however, I've seen several others that were physically abusive, from mild to extreme!  
That's one of the main reasons I donate to our abused women's & children's shelter here....they need everything. 

In the last eighteen years I've donated a little over $1,000,000 to the local women's shelters in my area.  I truly understand the human behavior involved.

Our only difference in this discussion seems to be the importance placed on the value of staying in a marriage.  Deciding which level/type of disharmony constitutes 'abuse' can be very subjective.

This man obviously thinks marriage has high value worth saving.  This does not mean he condones abuse, or his belief is wrong, any more than another that would leave a marriage for smallest disagreement.

They would be both right.

God bless you and those who need shelter so appreciate it.

[Shooby]

  Funny that in America, women can CHOOSE their husbands.  And, then they marry some idiot who abuses them. And, in the vast majority, they were abusive BEFORE marriage.  So, women need to choose wisely and stop being stupid.

[Opti]

May 12, 2018 12:24:51 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

May 2, 2018 14:50:36 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

The whole point of my post was that he hasn't changed his outlook, only what he "might" advise an abuse victim to do or how to react.  He still advocates for NO divorce......
Just curious, how close have you ever come to seeing or being in an abusive relationship?   I was in a verbal one for many years, it never escalated beyond that due to how I reacted, however, I've seen several others that were physically abusive, from mild to extreme!  
That's one of the main reasons I donate to our abused women's & children's shelter here....they need everything. 

In the last eighteen years I've donated a little over $1,000,000 to the local women's shelters in my area.  I truly understand the human behavior involved.

Our only difference in this discussion seems to be the importance placed on the value of staying in a marriage.  Deciding which level/type of disharmony constitutes 'abuse' can be very subjective.

This man obviously thinks marriage has high value worth saving.  This does not mean he condones abuse, or his belief is wrong, any more than another that would leave a marriage for smallest disagreement.

They would be both right.

Thank you for those donations.

What I remember from the article was a woman who came to church with a black eye and was not happy with him, presumably because her husband caused her to get that black eye. Probably after counseling, probably after sharing something he told her to tell her husband. He of course was happy because the husband came to church.

If they start hitting you with more than an open hand, I think most reasonable people would say leaving the marriage would be good idea. If there are kids, odds are high he will beat and abuse them as well. I wonder if he ever notices when certain women stop coming to church. Given his views, significantly beaten women and those who escape may stop talking to him. I think there are times that the life of the woman and any children is far more important than staying in a marriage and getting beaten or possibly killed. YMMV.

[weltschmerz]

May 12, 2018 17:13:50 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 12, 2018 12:24:51 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

In the last eighteen years I've donated a little over $1,000,000 to the local women's shelters in my area.  I truly understand the human behavior involved.

Our only difference in this discussion seems to be the importance placed on the value of staying in a marriage.  Deciding which level/type of disharmony constitutes 'abuse' can be very subjective.

This man obviously thinks marriage has high value worth saving.  This does not mean he condones abuse, or his belief is wrong, any more than another that would leave a marriage for smallest disagreement.

They would be both right.

Thank you for those donations.

What I remember from the article was a woman who came to church with a black eye and was not happy with him, presumably because her husband caused her to get that black eye. Probably after counseling, probably after sharing something he told her to tell her husband. He of course was happy because the husband came to church.

If they start hitting you with more than an open hand, I think most reasonable people would say leaving the marriage would be good idea. If there are kids, odds are high he will beat and abuse them as well. I wonder if he ever notices when certain women stop coming to church. Given his views, significantly beaten women and those who escape may stop talking to him. I think there are times that the life of the woman and any children is far more important than staying in a marriage and getting beaten or possibly killed. YMMV.

What? ANY hitting is completely unacceptable!

[Deleted]

May 12, 2018 17:13:50 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 12, 2018 12:24:51 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

In the last eighteen years I've donated a little over $1,000,000 to the local women's shelters in my area.  I truly understand the human behavior involved.

Our only difference in this discussion seems to be the importance placed on the value of staying in a marriage.  Deciding which level/type of disharmony constitutes 'abuse' can be very subjective.

This man obviously thinks marriage has high value worth saving.  This does not mean he condones abuse, or his belief is wrong, any more than another that would leave a marriage for smallest disagreement.

They would be both right.

Thank you for those donations.

What I remember from the article was a woman who came to church with a black eye and was not happy with him, presumably because her husband caused her to get that black eye. Probably after counseling, probably after sharing something he told her to tell her husband. He of course was happy because the husband came to church.

If they start hitting you with more than an open hand, I think most reasonable people would say leaving the marriage would be good idea. If there are kids, odds are high he will beat and abuse them as well. I wonder if he ever notices when certain women stop coming to church. Given his views, significantly beaten women and those who escape may stop talking to him. I think there are times that the life of the woman and any children is far more important than staying in a marriage and getting beaten or possibly killed. YMMV.

I agree.  My threshold for domestic violence is quite low, as no physical abuse at all.  Shouldn't be any verbal either.  Disagreements happen, but should be resolved in a mature fashion.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2018 17:32:42 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

May 12, 2018 17:13:50 GMT -5 Opti said:

Thank you for those donations.

What I remember from the article was a woman who came to church with a black eye and was not happy with him, presumably because her husband caused her to get that black eye. Probably after counseling, probably after sharing something he told her to tell her husband. He of course was happy because the husband came to church.

If they start hitting you with more than an open hand, I think most reasonable people would say leaving the marriage would be good idea. If there are kids, odds are high he will beat and abuse them as well. I wonder if he ever notices when certain women stop coming to church. Given his views, significantly beaten women and those who escape may stop talking to him. I think there are times that the life of the woman and any children is far more important than staying in a marriage and getting beaten or possibly killed. YMMV.

What? ANY hitting is completely unacceptable!

You do understand that everyone has limits for things are not going to match yours.  People slap each other at times and find it acceptable behavior in a relationship.  What happens between two consenting adults is none of your business.  

[chiver78]

May 18, 2018 13:51:53 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

May 12, 2018 17:13:50 GMT -5 Opti said:

Thank you for those donations.

What I remember from the article was a woman who came to church with a black eye and was not happy with him, presumably because her husband caused her to get that black eye. Probably after counseling, probably after sharing something he told her to tell her husband. He of course was happy because the husband came to church.

If they start hitting you with more than an open hand, I think most reasonable people would say leaving the marriage would be good idea. If there are kids, odds are high he will beat and abuse them as well. I wonder if he ever notices when certain women stop coming to church. Given his views, significantly beaten women and those who escape may stop talking to him. I think there are times that the life of the woman and any children is far more important than staying in a marriage and getting beaten or possibly killed. YMMV.

I agree.  My threshold for domestic violence is quite low, as no physical abuse at all.  Shouldn't be any verbal either.  Disagreements happen, but should be resolved in a mature fashion.

disagreements and verbal abuse are two very different things. 

[Deleted]

May 18, 2018 14:05:15 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

May 18, 2018 13:51:53 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

I agree.  My threshold for domestic violence is quite low, as no physical abuse at all.  Shouldn't be any verbal either.  Disagreements happen, but should be resolved in a mature fashion.

disagreements and verbal abuse are two very different things. 

But both can still be considered abuse

That's why I said this in reply #60

My quote;  Deciding which level/type of disharmony constitutes 'abuse' can be very subjective.

[Tennesseer]

Prominent Southern Baptist leader removed as seminary president following controversial remarks about abused women

[swamp]

May 12, 2018 16:03:48 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Funny that in America, women can CHOOSE their husbands.  And, then they marry some idiot who abuses them. And, in the vast majority, they were abusive BEFORE marriage.  So, women need to choose wisely and stop being stupid.

You're putting this on the woman?

One should choose their partner wisely for many reasons, but maybe we should ask the men to stop hitting too? 

[bean29]

I live in a world where if I make a bad decision, I can correct it (with few exceptions). Having been divorced once, I really feel that is the way to go.

There probably were some signs that every thing was not going to work out as I thought in my first marriage, but I still choose to feel that we both grew in different directions. If we had grown in the same direction, we may still be together.

In my second marriage, things have worked out really well. We certainly are more financially stable than I ever expected.  Personally, I feel that most marriages end due to financial problems or substance abuse problems.  I also think that a lot of domestic abuse happens in situations where someone is under the influence of Alcohol or other substances.  You can't force someone else to get treatment, so divorce may be the best decision.

I know more than one Woman for whom they won the lottery in a mate, and they have a superior attitude to those who didn't.

Idk why they feel so entitled.

I also know other Women who won the lottery in the choice of a mate, and still are driven to succeed.  DH had a friend that co-owns a very successful business in Chicago. They live in a mini-mansion This Woman finished her masters and now is going to law school. She works full time, has two children in grade school and attends law school.

[Shooby]

May 23, 2018 9:29:50 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 12, 2018 16:03:48 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Funny that in America, women can CHOOSE their husbands.  And, then they marry some idiot who abuses them. And, in the vast majority, they were abusive BEFORE marriage.  So, women need to choose wisely and stop being stupid.

You're putting this on the woman?

One should choose their partner wisely for many reasons, but maybe we should ask the men to stop hitting too? 

If he's hitting you, call the Police and get out.  Don't marry him cuz your LURV him.

[countrygirl2]

Hit me?  My husband better damn well never hit me.  We have had arguments and probably some verbal abuse, but that's far enough.

I told him not long ago, you might talk to me not so nice at home sometimes, but you ever
do that in public we are done.  His dad was horrible to his mother, both at home and in public.  
I hope he never gets like that, I could not live, nor will I live like she did. He has never gotten
like that, but who knows as he ages and possibly gets dementia or whatever I think he could.

So far if he starts to sound mean, I can remind him of his dad and that I don't want him like that 
and it stops it.  We have been married 50 years, but you never know what senility might do.

[Tennesseer]

May 27, 2018 23:42:46 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

Hit me?  My husband better damn well never hit me.  We have had arguments and probably some verbal abuse, but that's far enough.

I told him not long ago, you might talk to me not so nice at home sometimes, but you ever
do that in public we are done.  His dad was horrible to his mother, both at home and in public.  
I hope he never gets like that, I could not live, nor will I live like she did. He has never gotten
like that, but who knows as he ages and possibly gets dementia or whatever I think he could.

So far if he starts to sound mean, I can remind him of his dad and that I don't want him like that 
and it stops it.  We have been married 50 years, but you never know what senility might do.

Countrygirl-are you by chance a member of Amazon Prime? The reason I ask is you mentioned aging and getting dementia and how one's personality may change. There is a TV series on TBS called 'The Guest Book'. It is somewhat of a dark comedy. It's first season was last summer. Episode/story number 5 is about the following:

Hopeful medical researcher Laurie visits the cabin with her Alzheimer's patient Edgar in an attempt to recreate his past life and help him recapture some of his memories.


Needless to say, it does not turn out well for the medical researcher Laurie. Orson Bean plays the Alzheimer's patient. While Alzheimer's disease is not funny, the memories the patient recaptures is in the worst possible way.

I don't know if TBS will rerun last season of the series before the new episodes start this summer. But if you are willing to part with $2.99, you can watch it on Amazon Prime. The video is 21 minutes long and should have no commercials. Here is a link to Amazon and the show:

Amazon Prime: The Guest Book: Story Five

[countrygirl2]

He and I are both concerned as his mom, her mom, her sister, brother, I think another brother
and her grandmother all had dementia or alzheimers.  He is really worrying about this.  So far he is
fine, but..... there is that big worry hanging over our heads.

I think honestly a lot of it is the way they ate and I try to have good quality food, but who knows.

[resolution]

He can go to a neurologist and be tested, if it would put his mind at ease. You might have to pay for it out of pocket, since insurance may not think it is necessary. My mom did that because she was getting all paranoid every time that she forgot anything, and it made her feel a lot better to be tested and declared to be normal.

[Deleted]

May 23, 2018 9:29:50 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 12, 2018 16:03:48 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Funny that in America, women can CHOOSE their husbands.  And, then they marry some idiot who abuses them. And, in the vast majority, they were abusive BEFORE marriage.  So, women need to choose wisely and stop being stupid.

You're putting this on the woman?

One should choose their partner wisely for many reasons, but maybe we should ask the men to stop hitting too? 

And women.