"Women Must Submit"

[kadee79]

The leader of a major Southern Baptist seminary issued a statement Sunday pushing back after a 2000 tape surfaced purporting to quote him saying that abused women should focus on praying and “be submissive in every way that you can” and not seek divorce.



Paige Patterson is president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, a Fort Worth school whose Web site says it is one of the largest seminaries in the world. About 15 million people are part of Southern Baptist churches, the largest Protestant group in the United States. Patterson is slated to deliver the primary sermon — a high-profile honor — in June at the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting in Dallas.

Patterson, who declined to comment Sunday, is heard on an audiotape being interviewed about what he recommends for women “who are undergoing genuine physical abuse from their husbands, and the husband says they should submit.”

“It depends on the level of abuse, to some degree,” Patterson says. “I have never in my ministry counseled anyone to seek a divorce and that’s always wrong counsel.” Only on an occasion or two in his career, he says, when the level of abuse “was serious enough, dangerous enough, immoral enough,” has he recommended a temporary separation and the seeking of help.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/southern-baptist-leader-pushes-back-after-comments-leak-urging-abused-women-to-pray-and-avoid-divorce/ar-AAwvUYN?li=BBnb7Kz

[weltschmerz]

Wow!!

[weltschmerz]

What's with these Baptists? This pastor calls for the execution of gays.


US pastor Steven Anderson says gay people should be executed for an 'Aids free Christmas'

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-pastor-steven-anderson-says-gay-people-should-be-executed-for-an-aids-free-christmas-9903543.html
Charming.

[Tennesseer]

It goes hand-in-hand with some men thinking it's okay to open handed slap women across the face now and then.

[weltschmerz]

.......and another.


SACRAMENTO -- "There's no tragedy. I wish the government would round them all up, put them up against a wall, put a firing squad in front of them and blow their brains out."



That was one Sacramento pastor's response to the massacre in an Orlando nightclub. The "them" Pastor Roger Jimenez is referring to is gay men. "The tragedy is that more of them didn't die," he said during a 45-minute sermon the morning after 49 people were killed inside Pulse nightclub.

cw33.com/2016/06/16/that-same-pastor-says-the-government-should-kill-gays/

[Shooby]

Shouldnt this be under the Religious Discussion board instead?

[billisonboard]

Apr 29, 2018 22:45:00 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Shouldnt this be under the Religious Discussion board instead?

Toss in a couple of Bible verses supporting the pastors being discussed and that will get it moved.

[kadee79]

Apr 29, 2018 22:45:00 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Shouldnt this be under the Religious Discussion board instead?

I don't see it so much as religion as I do men still trying to dominate women in all facets of their lives.
Personally, I don't see wanting women to stay in an abusive relationship or wanting to kill gays/lesbians as any part of religion.  If that defines religion, then I'm glad I left churches years ago and I can see why more & more young people are leaving too.

[Opti]

Apr 29, 2018 23:09:32 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Apr 29, 2018 22:45:00 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Shouldnt this be under the Religious Discussion board instead?

I don't see it so much as religion as I do men still trying to dominate women in all facets of their lives.
Personally, I don't see wanting women to stay in an abusive relationship or wanting to kill gays/lesbians as any part of religion.  If that defines religion, then I'm glad I left churches years ago and I can see why more & more young people are leaving too.

Its basically saying the abuse of women is less important than keeping up the illusion of the sacredness of any particular marriage. And we are not discussing the dogma of it, but the wrongness of the idea.

[OldCoyote]

Oh Boy, You find an article that is eighteen years old that has some religious nut proclaiming something, Suddenly every white man in the U.S. ,

Wife beating, dominating, gay hating nut! sigh!

[Tennesseer]

Apr 30, 2018 8:24:36 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Oh Boy, You find an article that is eighteen years old that has some religious nut proclaiming something, Suddenly every white man in the U.S. ,

Wife beating, dominating, gay hating nut! sigh!

The article is 12 hours old.

Tells us all you don't read linked articles.

[OldCoyote]

Apr 30, 2018 8:29:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 30, 2018 8:24:36 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Oh Boy, You find an article that is eighteen years old that has some religious nut proclaiming something, Suddenly every white man in the U.S. ,

Wife beating, dominating, gay hating nut! sigh!

The article is 12 hours old.

Tells us all you don't read linked articles.

2000 tape surfaced

[Tennesseer]

Apr 30, 2018 8:31:02 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Apr 30, 2018 8:29:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The article is 12 hours old.

Tells us all you don't read linked articles.

2000 tape surfaced

A tape is a tape. A tape is not a news article.


How are the icebergs around Tahiti these days?

[Tennesseer]

Apr 30, 2018 8:24:36 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Oh Boy, You find an article that is eighteen years old that has some religious nut proclaiming something, Suddenly every white man in the U.S. ,

Wife beating, dominating, gay hating nut! sigh!

The linked article made no mention of race. Nor did anyone reply about race.

You introduced race into this thread.

Nice.

[Opti]

Apr 30, 2018 8:24:36 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Oh Boy, You find an article that is eighteen years old that has some religious nut proclaiming something, Suddenly every white man in the U.S. ,

Wife beating, dominating, gay hating nut! sigh!

That's some massive projection

and only opined by you.

Sad.

[thyme4change]

Apr 30, 2018 8:24:36 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Oh Boy, You find an article that is eighteen years old that has some religious nut proclaiming something, Suddenly every white man in the U.S. ,

Wife beating, dominating, gay hating nut! sigh!

The pastor was given an opportunity to comment on the old tape. The pastor declined to denounce his statements, or even comment that it was 18 years ago. At this point, we can assume his opinions have not changed.

[happyhoix]

The evangelical groups can be very anti-divorce, no matter what.

My DS was had attended a church for a while, then got engaged. When she and her fiancé, (who had divorced his first wife) went to talk to the minister about getting married, and the minster found out about the divorce, he refused to marry them.

The minister said that he had been married to his wife for over 20 years, they hated each other and were miserable every single day, but God had put them together and divorce was impossible.

DS switched to another church......

[tallguy]

The minister said that he had been married to his wife for over 20 years, they hated each other and were miserable every single day, but God had put them together and divorce was impossible.

As what, a test? Such an idiot!

[Deleted]

Apr 29, 2018 22:08:52 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

The leader of a major Southern Baptist seminary issued a statement Sunday pushing back after a 2000 tape surfaced purporting to quote him saying that abused women should focus on praying and “be submissive in every way that you can” and not seek divorce.



Paige Patterson is president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, a Fort Worth school whose Web site says it is one of the largest seminaries in the world. About 15 million people are part of Southern Baptist churches, the largest Protestant group in the United States. Patterson is slated to deliver the primary sermon — a high-profile honor — in June at the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting in Dallas.

Patterson, who declined to comment Sunday, is heard on an audiotape being interviewed about what he recommends for women “who are undergoing genuine physical abuse from their husbands, and the husband says they should submit.”

“It depends on the level of abuse, to some degree,” Patterson says. “I have never in my ministry counseled anyone to seek a divorce and that’s always wrong counsel.” Only on an occasion or two in his career, he says, when the level of abuse “was serious enough, dangerous enough, immoral enough,” has he recommended a temporary separation and the seeking of help.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/southern-baptist-leader-pushes-back-after-comments-leak-urging-abused-women-to-pray-and-avoid-divorce/ar-AAwvUYN?li=BBnb7Kz

This is how he feels now ?  (bolded)  His outlook has changed since the 2000 tape ?  Where is the problem ?

Your thread title smacks of a little outdated hyperbole. 

[kadee79]

Apr 30, 2018 11:29:52 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 29, 2018 22:08:52 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/southern-baptist-leader-pushes-back-after-comments-leak-urging-abused-women-to-pray-and-avoid-divorce/ar-AAwvUYN?li=BBnb7Kz

This is how he feels now ?  (bolded)  His outlook has changed since the 2000 tape ?  Where is the problem ?

Your thread title smacks of a little outdated hyperbole. 

If you don't see the problem....that's on you.  I would not nor would I recommend any female stay with an abusive spouse.  Even many who have left have ended up dead.  So I suppose that you will advise your female children or sisters to stay with someone who is beating the crap out of them every chance they get?

[Artemis Windsong]

Start the exit strategy the first time a fist hits the wall.  It is a short trip to your face then the kids.  My DD hated me until she was in her late 40s when she asked what happened.  She was floored when I said he slapped her when she was 5.  She ran up to jump into his arms for a hug and wham.

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2018 15:17:06 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Apr 30, 2018 11:29:52 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

This is how he feels now ?  (bolded)  His outlook has changed since the 2000 tape ?  Where is the problem ?

Your thread title smacks of a little outdated hyperbole. 

If you don't see the problem....that's on you.  I would not nor would I recommend any female stay with an abusive spouse.  Even many who have left have ended up dead.  So I suppose that you will advise your female children or sisters to stay with someone who is beating the crap out of them every chance they get?

I see the problem all to well, you are stating only the extremes.  They are statistically insignificant for the point I was making about his outlook changing for the better, as a positive.  Using hyperbole/extremes as a point defining a more general issue of abuse, which has many levels of offensive behavior types, simply makes your argument look weak, as a demonizing type approach to the problem.  That will solve nothing.

[kadee79]

May 2, 2018 11:03:26 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 30, 2018 15:17:06 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

If you don't see the problem....that's on you.  I would not nor would I recommend any female stay with an abusive spouse.  Even many who have left have ended up dead.  So I suppose that you will advise your female children or sisters to stay with someone who is beating the crap out of them every chance they get?

I see the problem all to well, you are stating only the extremes.  They are statistically insignificant for the point I was making about his outlook changing for the better, as a positive.  Using hyperbole/extremes as a point defining a more general issue of abuse, which has many levels of offensive behavior types, simply makes your argument look weak, as a demonizing type approach to the problem.  That will solve nothing.

The whole point of my post was that he hasn't changed his outlook, only what he "might" advise an abuse victim to do or how to react.  He still advocates for NO divorce......
Just curious, how close have you ever come to seeing or being in an abusive relationship?   I was in a verbal one for many years, it never escalated beyond that due to how I reacted, however, I've seen several others that were physically abusive, from mild to extreme!  
That's one of the main reasons I donate to our abused women's & children's shelter here....they need everything. 

[Tiny]

I'm not sure what the brouhaha is about.... Southern Baptist and Fundamentalists (and now Evengelicals) have long been associated with treating anyone not white and male as a second class citizen (or as barely human).   They are all a hair away from neo-Nazis and White Supremecists...   They are almost our own homegrown Taliban...  

You could google "the article removed from Forbes, "Why White Evangelicalism is so Cruel"  "   for a recent article and explanation. 

I bumped into the  Baptists and Fundamentalists over a decade ago while exploring the 'net looking for other atheists or secular philosophy ...  I was amazed at how they could spew what amounted to out and out hate in the name of 'love'.... I'm pretty sure opening fire with an assault rifle on a bus full of atheists would cause them and their god to cheer  and they would be warmed by the feel their god's love in their hearts.   

Needless to say - I don't have a very high opinion of any of them.  But they don't really care - I don't matter.  I'm a woman AND an atheist.   

 

[busymom]

I was raised in a Christian household, (not evangelical) but Mom still advised me if a man ever starts hitting, to GET OUT immediately.  It only gets worse over time.  Never stay with someone who treats you like their personal property, instead of a fellow human being.

For a former coworker of mine, it began when her husband punched (and broke) the windshield on her car, & it escalated to him beating & choking her.  Her self esteem had gotten so bad, that it took him almost killing her for her to realize that some day he just might finish her off, & that's when she left.  (Thankfully they never had any kids.)  

[Shooby]

Biblical submission is not the act of being dominated or controlled.  Seems that many people don't want to be bothered to take the time to understand what biblical submission is.  And, yes, there are preachers who get this wrong.   Submission is putting the needs of another in front of your own.   Men are told to "love their wives as Christ loved the Church" in a self sacrificing way as He sacrificed Himself to the point of death for the sake of the Church and mankind.  That was the ultimate act of submission to the Father.  So, those who want to paint submission as something ugly are looking at a perverted notion of submission and not the true acts of Biblical submission.

[Tennesseer]

shooby-your quoted passage-is that from the bible?

[resolution]

It is from Ephesians 5:22-33.

[swamp]

so shooby just sent this thread into the black hole of religious discussion, never to be seen again. 

[Tennesseer]

May 8, 2018 8:45:52 GMT -5 swamp said:

so shooby just sent this thread into the black hole of religious discussion, never to be seen again. 

And she was told what would happen to the thread if she did quote from the bible earlier in the thread.