Depression, Unemployment and Reaching a Settlement - Next

[finnime]

It's now almost three years ago that I was fired, the morning after I'd told my boss I needed to take time off for health issues (depression.) That year my employer had just instituted an unlimited 'salary continuation' benefit for management-level employees to replace sick leave and disability, and coupled it with no carryover of PTO.

At that time I was also on intermittent FMLA to take care of DH, who was suffering from serious complications of major surgery, cellulitis with diabetes.

I have recurrent major depression. The episode I was experiencing then became almost intractable. Getting fired is depressing for anyone, of course.

I filed a complaint with the EEOC, because depression falls under the ADA for protection from adverse actions. It took them almost two years to investigate, decide to not persue it themselves and issue a "right to sue" letter. I retained an attorney, who waded in.

My former employer's counsel did some investigation and found that others at the company did not support my being fired; that I had been doing good work. They want to settle.

The mediation conference is set with a judge magistrate for February 6. Finally.

In the meantime, over the past few years I've been treated for depression, attended to ongoing and new health issues of DH's, applied for jobs and gotten older.

Health issues are a bitch. Bosses who ignore the law can really break you. I'm in IT and at over 55 it's not a simple matter to get another position. Not sure how to proceed now - or what I really want, even.

When I was fired I was 4 months short of vesting (we had a 5 year vesting schedule) in the pension. So that's been lost, too. Financially we are in a very hard place. Fortunately I bought this home 14 years ago; have quite a bit of appreciation. My DH retired on disability ten years ago, which has now been converted to regular retirement. He's 10 years older than I.

So - what to plan for career? I've been thinking consulting makes the most sense, but I would have a hard time selling myself. I have extensive experience in IT project management.

What to plan for with the settlement, when it comes? We have a lot of deferred maintenance and debt; those are priorities, and I'm unsure what ballpark to place the final total in.

[gs11rmb]

If you've been out of the workforce for the last three years, I think you'll have a hard time selling yourself as a consultant.  What about working for an IT temp agency? 

Very best wishes to you - it's clearly been a hard few years.  Good luck!

[Shooby]

  Until you know what the settlement is, you should just take a deep breath and then wait until that happens. And, even so, probably best to let it sit for a period of time to really think about what you want to do with that financially.  I am sure this is very emotional as well, so i would advise you to just let some time pass before making any decisions in that regard.
  As for your career, being 55+ is a very hard sell.  However, since you have skill and experience, you should keep knocking on doors and also maybe branch out a bit and apply for things that maybe aren't a perfect match but have some use of your experience and skills.  
 Consulting sounds great.  However, being self employed is not easy.  And, you do have to sell yourself.  Those jobs come and go and you will have a very unpredictable income, not to mention no benefits of any kind other than what you buy for yourself.  
  My BIL was downsized and did a bit of consulting but nothing has panned out and mostly he is still looking for work.  

  Also, this might be a good time to reinvent yourself as well.  Maybe there is some other field you always wanted to do.  But, you would be starting at a much lower level and income so there is that to consider.  But, if you have a many more years to work it is something to consider.

[swasat]

finnime, I am in IT as well, so I understand your concerns about age being  a factor in employment.

Career wise, I think you can try IT consulting. As you know, IT consulting is unlike other consulting gigs. If you go through vendors, you are on the payroll of the vendors and get all the benefits through them. However, do you think you will be up for the rigors of consulting? The change in clients and re-adjustment to that is a real thing. And not all clients treat consultants well. I have heard and seen horror stories of IT consultants being treated like shits.

Could you  get into IT recruitment? Technical recruiters ACTUALLY need to understand the technical jargon before hiring. Your past experience could definitely come in handy with that! There are so many consulting companies I work with that could hire you as a recruiter. (Message me if you need a few names. Depending on where you are, I am sure the national level companies exist in your area).

Could you try teaching courses at a local community college? Or local tech type colleges?

How about IT support at the local school district?

Financially, not sure where you stand with your home. If the house has appreciated in value, would you consider selling and downsizing to a smaller home, thereby pocketing the profit you make on sale proceeds?

I am sorry you are going through this   Life happens and leaves us to pick up the pieces. Hopefully your settlement with the employer comes through quickly.

[finnime]

Thank you all for your ideas. Agreed, getting gigs in IT consulting could be problematic depending on the situation. I am very comfortable working with C-level executives and with tech staff, so would focus on work that draws on that experience. Fortunately I do not need benefits; DH's retirement benefits for health care cover me as well. Money is what I want.

Recruiting - very interesting idea. I have taught 5 semesters a master's IT program project management course. So teaching is a possibility, too, but I'd probably be better compensated in corporate settings.

We do plan on selling this home in about two years, downsizing, now that my son is completely on his own. I want eventually to move back to New England, where my siblings live. This is a crazily HCOLA; I know that our expenses would fall once we left.

[NastyWoman]

I have no career advice, but on the settlement I wouldn't just give up on the pension quite yet. Run it by your lawyer to see whether there would be a chance to get you vested as part of the settlement. Or if you prefer whether a buyout would be an option. 

Good luck 

[bean29]

Jan 23, 2018 10:55:31 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I have no career advice, but on the settlement I wouldn't just give up on the pension quite yet. Run it by your lawyer to see whether there would be a chance to get you vested as part of the settlement. Or if you prefer whether a buyout would be an option. 

Good luck 

I was thinking the same thing. If you were that close, it makes sense that you would not have left the company until you vested.

Ask to be made whole.

I have no advice on future career options - I wish you luck in your job hunt.

[finnime]

This is hard. I hate court stuff. My X contested our divorce in every way, so we had hearing after hearing. He was an angry bully who was determined to pay no child support, so no real surprise, but it did provoke enormous anxiety. Then one of my brothers conflicted with the rest of us siblings on settling my mother's estate. Again, several hearings over ttime. Ugh.

I'm telling myself this is different: it is a mediation, not a real hearing, and both sides agree to settle. But I am jumpy nonetheless. Putting together documents for just in case they're requested. My attorney is very good. I guess I'm doing all I can.

[Shooby]

   For those who have dealt with similar issues or other issues requiring time off of work, in what way is it best to be handled?  Since you were going to take leave due to a medical issue, would you have to meet with a doctor and have that on record that you need leave prior to asking your employer or what is the best approach for that?  
  I am not sure what the employment laws are in your state.  And, did you have a union versus non union?   I am sure all those things come into play.

[finnime]

Shooby, good questions. My doctor has provided then and will now any documentation that is helpful. I was in a management position. The termination was against two legal protections: FMLA and the ADA, both federal, so this is a federal court matter. I wasn't in time to file with the state. The EEOC took two years to investigate, and I didn't know that I could take action before they were done.

The thing that still infuriates me about the termination is that I informed my supervisor one day, he told me he would find out what I needed to do next, sent me a meeting request close to midnight that night for the next morning, and terminated me at that meeting. I had thought the meeting would address what steps needed to be taken for an extended leave.

Depression makes it hard to process; to think and plan and act. I was doubly undone by the firing. If I had been given the needed medical leave (it was approved for coverage as disability) I feel confident, as does my doctor, that in 2 or 3 months I'd have recovered well.

There's something about the nature of this condition that some people regard its symptoms as a matter of will or laziness. I can't imagine who would choose this; who would prefer to be unable to do their best. I guess over all I'm fortunate in getting to this point. Now if I could just find some way to be at peace until the mediation.

[debthaven]

I'm sorry you've had such a hard time finnime. I hope the settlement is a good one.

I would wait to see how much it is before I made any (concrete) plans though.

My DH's next court date is 6 Feb so I'll be thinking of you on that date and wishing you well.

ETA: Could you make a new career our of your side job (cooking and baking)?

[dee27]

Jan 25, 2018 8:30:16 GMT -5 finnime said:

Shooby , good questions. My doctor has provided then and will now any documentation that is helpful. I was in a management position. The termination was against two legal protections: FMLA and the ADA, both federal, so this is a federal court matter. I wasn't in time to file with the state. The EEOC took two years to investigate, and I didn't know that I could take action before they were done.

The thing that still infuriates me about the termination is that I informed my supervisor one day, he told me he would find out what I needed to do next, sent me a meeting request close to midnight that night for the next morning, and terminated me at that meeting. I had thought the meeting would address what steps needed to be taken for an extended leave.

Depression makes it hard to process; to think and plan and act. I was doubly undone by the firing. If I had been given the needed medical leave (it was approved for coverage as disability) I feel confident, as does my doctor, that in 2 or 3 months I'd have recovered well.

There's something about the nature of this condition that some people regard its symptoms as a matter of will or laziness. I can't imagine who would choose this; who would prefer to be unable to do their best. I guess over all I'm fortunate in getting to this point. Now if I could just find some way to be at peace until the mediation.

Good luck!

[azucena]

Finnime - I've struggled with depression off and on with the most recent episode over Christmas in which I missed 3 weeks of work. Fortunately my doctors were able to pinpoint the right medicines very quickly and I'm convinced the precipitating trigger was going off birth control the month prior after DH was cleared post-vasectomy.

Anyway, all that to say that I'm sorry your boss and company handled this so inappropriately for you.  I can't imagine dealing with unemployment while also trying to rest and heal.  I hope your settlement more than makes up for that trauma.

[finnime]

Thank you, azucena. Depression is rough stuff.

[TheOtherMe]

Very rough.  Been there.

[Shooby]

Jan 25, 2018 8:30:16 GMT -5 finnime said:

Shooby , good questions. My doctor has provided then and will now any documentation that is helpful. I was in a management position. The termination was against two legal protections: FMLA and the ADA, both federal, so this is a federal court matter. I wasn't in time to file with the state. The EEOC took two years to investigate, and I didn't know that I could take action before they were done.

The thing that still infuriates me about the termination is that I informed my supervisor one day, he told me he would find out what I needed to do next, sent me a meeting request close to midnight that night for the next morning, and terminated me at that meeting. I had thought the meeting would address what steps needed to be taken for an extended leave.

Depression makes it hard to process; to think and plan and act. I was doubly undone by the firing. If I had been given the needed medical leave (it was approved for coverage as disability) I feel confident, as does my doctor, that in 2 or 3 months I'd have recovered well.

There's something about the nature of this condition that some people regard its symptoms as a matter of will or laziness. I can't imagine who would choose this; who would prefer to be unable to do their best. I guess over all I'm fortunate in getting to this point. Now if I could just find some way to be at peace until the mediation.

  Does one have to disclose their medical conditions to the employer?  I mean why does it matter if someone is off for a hemmorrhoidectomy or a gallbladder, etc?  How much of your medical info are they entitled too?   This is a generic question, just wondering if Hippa will catch up a bit in terms of employment?

[Deleted]

finnime, you have said your lawyer is good.  He/she should be able to advise you what would be required for you to be made "whole" and lead you through the process.  That's what you are paying for.

I know you will be relieved to have this chapter in your life over with.

Good luck!

[finnime]

You don't need to disclose too much by the way of specifics to your employer. You do need to let them know you have a health condition and that you need accomodation, such as time off. They may - will probably - require documentation. Some health conditions such as major depression are covered by the ADA; others are not.  Paid time off is a benefit not all jobs offer. There may be limits on the amount of time depending on whether or not you are a key employee. It gets involved, but the ADA and FMLA are both protections against termination in the event of certain covered health conditions.

[finnime]

Preparing for mediation session. Paid attorney. Not doing contingency, and former employer wants to settle, so that's good.

Got documentation from my shrink pertaining to the time period when I needed time off and afterward, when my being fired really sent me off the rails.

Have documentation of job search.

We don't need to answer a lot of discovery questions since mediation is mutually agreed. The judge magistrate got from each party a case summary statement last week. But in every instance I've been in any court type setting, those with the most documents came out ahead.

Don't know who will be there from employer's side. Judge specified it has to include someone authorized to make decisions on money. Maybe just lawyers? Maybe not.

Just keep on moving.

[azucena]

Good luck!

How are you feeling now? Coping with the depression, past it, somewhere in between?  Be kind to yourself during this stressful time.

[finnime]

Bouncing between depression and high anxiety. The good thing is anxiety gives the energy to propel myself forward. I will be so relieved when this is over. Overall though I'm okay in depression status. Low, but not in the trough. I do believe I can do this. I seem to have the right mix of meds. Thanks for asking.

[Opti]

Good luck!

[TheOtherMe]

You can do this.

Will you get a decision today?  

[finnime]

The mediation is Tuesday. And yes, I expect we'll emerge with a final number.

[Jaguar]

Good Luck !

[Jake 48]

Hugs and good karma for you

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I’m telling you this with the intent of thanking you. If it doesn’t come across that way, I just wanted to be clear.

There’s an employee of DH’s who has had over a year of minor discrepancies regarding attendance at work. Much Tardiness, occasionally forgetting to call in sick and just not showing up, disappearing from work at least twice. Her immediate supervisor (whom DH supervises) has been going through the progressive discipline process. She was at the point of being terminated. DH usually steps in, so he can confirm that the requirements have been met. During his meeting with her, she said she’d disappeared from work because her therapist whom she sees for depression had an opening. The employee felt that she needed to go. Now, she should have told someone she was leaving work.
However, when DH and I were discussing the situation, I had your story in the back of my mind. I told him, based on some of her life details, that it sounded like her job was the best, most stable facet she has right now, and some grace might be necessary.
We talked about how it might just not be that easy for her to get herself out of the house right now which is why she’s often late to work. DH struggles with this concept as he’s one of those people who believes being 15 minutes early is on time and on time is late.

Anyway, he agreed to extend her a bit more grace than he initially wanted to.

Please know that sharing your story had a direct impact on helping someone else in a similar situation.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jan 23, 2018 11:27:21 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Jan 23, 2018 10:55:31 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I have no career advice, but on the settlement I wouldn't just give up on the pension quite yet. Run it by your lawyer to see whether there would be a chance to get you vested as part of the settlement. Or if you prefer whether a buyout would be an option. 

Good luck 

I was thinking the same thing. If you were that close, it makes sense that you would not have left the company until you vested.

Ask to be made whole.

I have no advice on future career options - I wish you luck in your job hunt.

I agree -- don't let the opportunity to become vested slip by. You earned it, insist on it along with other pieces of the larger settlement.

[finnime]

Feb 3, 2018 0:32:58 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

I’m telling you this with the intent of thanking you. If it doesn’t come across that way, I just wanted to be clear.

There’s an employee of DH’s who has had over a year of minor discrepancies regarding attendance at work. Much Tardiness, occasionally forgetting to call in sick and just not showing up, disappearing from work at least twice. Her immediate supervisor (whom DH supervises) has been going through the progressive discipline process. She was at the point of being terminated. DH usually steps in, so he can confirm that the requirements have been met. During his meeting with her, she said she’d disappeared from work because her therapist whom she sees for depression had an opening. The employee felt that she needed to go. Now, she should have told someone she was leaving work.
However, when DH and I were discussing the situation, I had your story in the back of my mind. I told him, based on some of her life details, that it sounded like her job was the best, most stable facet she has right now, and some grace might be necessary.
We talked about how it might just not be that easy for her to get herself out of the house right now which is why she’s often late to work. DH struggles with this concept as he’s one of those people who believes being 15 minutes early is on time and on time is late.

Anyway, he agreed to extend her a bit more grace than he initially wanted to.

Please know that sharing your story had a direct impact on helping someone else in a similar situation.

Thank you for sharing this. I really hope this woman is able to find her footing. Agreed, she should have communicated - but one of the symptoms of major depression can be difficulty planning. It sounds like she would benefit from some formal accomodations - later arrivals (with later departures) and flexibility for medical appointments. It could make all the difference for her life,  and for her employer, assuming the work she does is and had been high quality. I'm so glad you spoke up to your DH.

[TheOtherMe]

I wish when I was struggling with depression I had had a manager who understood.  All I was getting from him was the trite you just have to make it go away.  No, I couldn't.  It is not that way when you have depression.