weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 29, 2017 21:22:43 GMT -5
"I'll undo every good thing Obama ever did, because I'm petty and vengeful. And stupid. He made a joke about me at a dinner."" U.S. to Roll Back Safety Rules Created After Deepwater Horizon Spill WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is poised to roll back offshore drilling safety regulations that were put in place after the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil rig disaster in the Gulf of Mexico that killed 11 people and caused the worst oil spill in American history. <snip> In April Mr. Trump signed an executive order directing the Interior Department to “reconsider” several oil rig safety regulations. Ryan Zinke, the interior secretary, at the time did not specify which specific equipment regulations would be reviewed, saying only the review would apply “from bow to stern.” <snip> The Obama-era rules, written in 2016, tightened controls on blowout preventers, devices that are intended to stop explosions in undersea oil and gas wells, and called for rig operators to have third parties certify that the safety devices worked under extreme conditions. In the Deepwater Horizon spill, a supposedly fail-safe blowout preventer failed after a section of drill pipe buckled. www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/us/trump-offshore-drilling.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&mtrref=www.facebook.com
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busymom
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Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
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Post by busymom on Dec 29, 2017 21:34:44 GMT -5
<sigh> No argument from me. He IS a "speshul" kind of stupid. I just hope we're able to undo the damage that is being done once he's out of office.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 29, 2017 23:06:52 GMT -5
I agree with the majority of policies President Obama put in place. I disagree vehemently with President Trump's decorum as the leader of our country; I didn't vote for him, so I cannot regret anything in that regard.
However, President Obama did sign a heck of a lot of executive orders and implemented policies in other manners. Yes, I know this is because Congress as a whole wasn't quite willing to work with him. It's hard for me to upset that the next president would usurp those orders and implementations because that's as legal as the original orders and implementations were.
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 29, 2017 23:21:56 GMT -5
I'm starting to get worried about who will run against trump when they know they're going to spend a lot of time undoing this mess.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Dec 30, 2017 9:15:56 GMT -5
I agree with the majority of policies President Obama put in place. I disagree vehemently with President Trump's decorum as the leader of our country; I didn't vote for him, so I cannot regret anything in that regard.
However, President Obama did sign a heck of a lot of executive orders and implemented policies in other manners. Yes, I know this is because Congress as a whole wasn't quite willing to work with him. It's hard for me to upset that the next president would usurp those orders and implementations because that's as legal as the original orders and implementations were. Obama signed fewer executive orders than Reagan, Clinton and Bush. Just a quick fact check.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 30, 2017 9:32:40 GMT -5
See, I think most people won't be upset, though, unless it directly affects them. And let's face it...regulations now are seen as the devil's work.
11 people dying in a work place accident is tragic, but easy to ignore.
People start paying $4-5/gallon of gas because of supply issues due to oil spils/rigs being out of commission...well, then that's different. And folks will start paying attention.
But, by then, it really will be too late to undo the damage.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Dec 30, 2017 9:52:14 GMT -5
What is the "Damage" That Trump is causing?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Dec 30, 2017 9:54:28 GMT -5
Mods, why is this posted in this forum?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 30, 2017 11:39:16 GMT -5
I agree with the majority of policies President Obama put in place. I disagree vehemently with President Trump's decorum as the leader of our country; I didn't vote for him, so I cannot regret anything in that regard.
However, President Obama did sign a heck of a lot of executive orders and implemented policies in other manners. Yes, I know this is because Congress as a whole wasn't quite willing to work with him. It's hard for me to upset that the next president would usurp those orders and implementations because that's as legal as the original orders and implementations were. Obama signed fewer executive orders than Reagan, Clinton and Bush. Just a quick fact check. Trump's and the current tunnel-vision Republicans' reactions are to Obama though, not to previous presidents.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Dec 30, 2017 11:52:01 GMT -5
I agree with the majority of policies President Obama put in place. I disagree vehemently with President Trump's decorum as the leader of our country; I didn't vote for him, so I cannot regret anything in that regard.
However, President Obama did sign a heck of a lot of executive orders and implemented policies in other manners. Yes, I know this is because Congress as a whole wasn't quite willing to work with him. It's hard for me to upset that the next president would usurp those orders and implementations because that's as legal as the original orders and implementations were. I agree with you Chloe. I actually understand why some people voted Republican after 8 years of the same president. Some regulations went too far, effectively absolving some people of personal responsibility for the decisions they make.
And some things like the ACA could clearly be improved. Personally, I hate the fact that someone like me can game the system and get a subsidy if I want. (We don't for a number of reasons). So I do think that some programs could be improved but don't want the proverbial "Throwing the baby out with the bath water".
I want both sides to work cooperatively to make us a better country together.
And I'd like to be able to have a civil, respectful conversation with my family about why we feel the way we do. Of all the things I hate about the current political climate is that there seems to be a lot of shouting and no listening. Our President is not demonstrating a good example on how to do that.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Dec 30, 2017 11:55:17 GMT -5
What is the "Damage" That Trump is causing? So you are asking “what could happen if we remove the safety rules that govern offshore drilling” or something in that manner. How about blow outs, massive spills leading to ecological disasters and so on.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 30, 2017 14:54:34 GMT -5
See, I think most people won't be upset, though, unless it directly affects them. And let's face it...regulations now are seen as the devil's work. 11 people dying in a work place accident is tragic, but easy to ignore. People start paying $4-5/gallon of gas because of supply issues due to oil spils/rigs being out of commission...well, then that's different. And folks will start paying attention. But, by then, it really will be too late to undo the damage. 11 people don't even register on the number of people we are willing to let die. How many people are going to have zero healthcare any minute now? How many people are we throwing off Medicaid and chip? And what kind of poverty nation will we live in when the GOP gets their dream of eliminating social security and Medicare? 11 people - pfffft - not even a teardrop in the ocean.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Dec 30, 2017 19:04:28 GMT -5
What is the "Damage" That Trump is causing? So you are asking “what could happen if we remove the safety rules that govern offshore drilling” or something in that manner. How about blow outs, massive spills leading to ecological disasters and so on. You and I are both business owners. Let's say some regulation is removed, would you, ( most certainly not me) do something that is dangerous or going to open you up to massive liability? For you or me $millions or to a big Corp. $ billions if not hundreds of $ billions in liability? Just because "A Regulation" is removed, does not absolve You, Me, Or some large Corp. of liability! In this case, do you think that the Co. that produces that backflow preventor, The Co. that uses that backflow preventor do not check and inspect these multiple times before they are used? They really don't like paying out multi $ billion settlements!!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 30, 2017 19:55:58 GMT -5
So you are asking “what could happen if we remove the safety rules that govern offshore drilling” or something in that manner. How about blow outs, massive spills leading to ecological disasters and so on. You and I are both business owners. Let's say some regulation is removed, would you, ( most certainly not me) do something that is dangerous or going to open you up to massive liability? ... So you are saying that there will be no change in behavior if the regulations are removed but it is beneficial to remove the regulations?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Dec 30, 2017 20:19:10 GMT -5
Like letting the fox into the hen house.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 31, 2017 5:55:39 GMT -5
You and I are both business owners. Let's say some regulation is removed, would you, ( most certainly not me) do something that is dangerous or going to open you up to massive liability? For you or me $millions or to a big Corp. $ billions if not hundreds of $ billions in liability? Just because "A Regulation" is removed, does not absolve You, Me, Or some large Corp. of liability! In this case, do you think that the Co. that produces that backflow preventor, The Co. that uses that backflow preventor do not check and inspect these multiple times before they are used? They really don't like paying out multi $ billion settlements!! Yes, companies don't like paying out settlements. So the answer is to have our legislature start to put caps on settlements and make it harder for folks to claim liability. For being a business owner with a ton of experience, I'm surprised and amused at your naivete with regards these things...thinking that a large company won't do whatever it takes to make money...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 31, 2017 7:54:57 GMT -5
Busses still don’t have seat belts. Obviously the amount of students who can die or get hurt is an acceptable risk. 🤦🏼♀️
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 31, 2017 7:55:33 GMT -5
Mods, why is this posted in this forum? You know as well as I do why it’s okay.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Dec 31, 2017 8:28:41 GMT -5
Then why do corporations have a “legal defense team” that is at all times ready to quash any claim? And is not necessarily about the damage that is inflicted upon workers. Consider first the damage inflicted on the environment when people think that it’s alright to pollute in order to make money because they are short sited. If I go and burn a stack of tires 10 miles away from my place I don’t really care about the smoke right? That same stupid line of thinking applies because it doesn’t affect us directly.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 31, 2017 12:58:47 GMT -5
You and I are both business owners. Let's say some regulation is removed, would you, ( most certainly not me) do something that is dangerous or going to open you up to massive liability? ... So you are saying that there will be no change in behavior if the regulations are removed but it is beneficial to remove the regulations? Even supposing the regulations won't be followed without enforcement, there's also the question of whether the regulations cause more harm than good. Many regulations have grave, unintentional consequences. For example, a regulation might stipulate that only a certain class of blowout preventer can be used as it is presently regarded as "safest" by the regulatory authority. If their judgment is technologically restrictive, biased, too general, or otherwise in error (which isn't uncommon), it can easily do more harm than good. Perhaps we should wait to see which regulations the review says ought to be removed, and why, before passing judgment.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 31, 2017 13:30:22 GMT -5
... Perhaps we should wait to see which regulations the review says ought to be removed, and why, before passing judgment. I support that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 13:31:39 GMT -5
... Perhaps we should wait to see which regulations the review says ought to be removed, and why, before passing judgment. I support that. .
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Dec 31, 2017 15:47:19 GMT -5
Then why do corporations have a “legal defense team” that is at all times ready to quash any claim? And is not necessarily about the damage that is inflicted upon workers. Consider first the damage inflicted on the environment when people think that it’s alright to pollute in order to make money because they are short sited. If I go and burn a stack of tires 10 miles away from my place I don’t really care about the smoke right? That same stupid line of thinking applies because it doesn’t affect us directly. If You have no problem with doing something that will open you up to liability??
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 31, 2017 15:53:15 GMT -5
Busses still don’t have seat belts. Obviously the amount of students who can die or get hurt is an a cceptable risk. 🤦🏼♀️ The way the seats are designed to surround the person sitting in a bus seat is what creates the safety of a school bus. School buses are the safest vehicles on the US roads. If seat belts were on the buses, then kids would take them off allowing for even more lawsuits.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Dec 31, 2017 15:58:30 GMT -5
Then there was the time that I had the County Air Quality inspector that did not know the difference between a air pressure gauge and a thermometer!!
She wrote the customer a high dollar ticket for failing to maintain a lower temperature, when she was looking at a air pressure gauge!!
Yes, O.C. had fun with that, then with her supervisor and his supervisor!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Dec 31, 2017 16:06:22 GMT -5
You and I are both business owners. Let's say some regulation is removed, would you, ( most certainly not me) do something that is dangerous or going to open you up to massive liability? ... So you are saying that there will be no change in behavior if the regulations are removed but it is beneficial to remove the regulations? Yes, We need far more regulations, Yes, yes let's create so many regulations that no none can afford to be in business!! Yes let's hire inspectors to check on the regulator that are regulating the business, Yes,, creating jobs!!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 31, 2017 16:22:05 GMT -5
So you are saying that there will be no change in behavior if the regulations are removed but it is beneficial to remove the regulations? Yes, We need far more regulations, Yes, yes let's create so many regulations that no none can afford to be in business!! Yes let's hire inspectors to check on the regulator that are regulating the business, Yes,, creating jobs!! That doesn't answer the question asked.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Dec 31, 2017 17:00:02 GMT -5
Yes, We need far more regulations, Yes, yes let's create so many regulations that no none can afford to be in business!! Yes let's hire inspectors to check on the regulator that are regulating the business, Yes,, creating jobs!! That doesn't answer the question asked. Ok let's get back to the start of this, now that the regulation regarding the backflow preventor is removed , Do you think that that Manufacture, the Co, that is going to use this product does not inspect it several time before they use it after the last problem?? You think that they would knowingly use a defective valve, that potentiality will cost may lives and billions of $$$$$?? I think they are extremely concerned about the liability, far more than the regulation! If they failed to have a third party inspector check the valve,, is the fine going to be billions of $$$$??
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 31, 2017 17:22:59 GMT -5
That doesn't answer the question asked. Ok let's get back to the start of this, now that the regulation regarding the backflow preventor is removed , Do you think that that Manufacture, the Co, that is going to use this product does not inspect it several time before they use it after the last problem?? You think that they would knowingly use a defective valve, that potentiality will cost may lives and billions of $$$$$?? I think they are extremely concerned about the liability, far more than the regulation! If they failed to have a third party inspector check the valve,, is the fine going to be billions of $$$$?? I still find it amusing that you truly think that businesses care about lives. As it's been pointed out, they'll find a way out of the fines, through legal fees and legislation. The point of businesses to make money...not making sure people stay alive.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 31, 2017 17:38:19 GMT -5
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