How the Democrats blew defeating the tax reform bill

[Value Buy]

I did not want to post this link in the old Republican tax reform bill thread.

www.cnbc.com/2017/12/18/democrats-failed-to-give-tax-reform-proper-attention-commentary.html

A premise many here will disagree with, except for a few of us here.
Before denouncing the article, take a few minutes to read it and think about it.

[Deleted]

Dem politicians are rich too, and they won’t get blamed for this...

[Opti]

I'll read the article later, but does this mean I missed the opportunity to blame the Republicans for the ACA passing originally?

[djAdvocate]

this should be posted to the old GOP tax bill thread, if for no other reason than to correct your mispelling in the title.

[bean29]

I don't think they developed their point too well. I think they are just hoping they can make the Dems share the inevitable blame. I think very possibly the Dems figure if the bill passes they will have good ammo against candidates in the mid-terms.

I can't see how this is not going to imperil all kinds of programs Average Citizens have come to depend on.

DH and I are depending on qualifying for Medicare and Social Security at 67. I personally don't think it is realistic to just tell people well the metrics don't work, we overpaid some others, so we expect you to keep working. President Obama and the Dems put in a fix to shore up Medicare, but the rich people that fund our campaigns wanted a tax break, so we decided that was more important.

Middle Class and Poor People should be able to pay for health care, even if the cost of a policy is more than their monthly Mortgage/Housing payment and they would still have insurmountable co-pays and co-insurance. They can eat cat food and live on the street while paying for their overpriced medical treatments so BIG Pharma and Health Care Executives can make bank and rip-off the taxpayers via Medicare/Medicaid.  Yeah, that'll work (Sarcasm).

[dee27]

Dec 18, 2017 18:16:25 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I don't think they developed their point too well. I think they are just hoping they can make the Dems share the inevitable blame. I think very possibly the Dems figure if the bill passes they will have good ammo against candidates in the mid-terms.

I can't see how this is not going to imperil all kinds of programs Average Citizens have come to depend on.

DH and I are depending on qualifying for Medicare and Social Security at 67. I personally don't think it is realistic to just tell people well the metrics don't work, we overpaid some others, so we expect you to keep working. President Obama and the Dems put in a fix to shore up Medicare, but the rich people that fund our campaigns wanted a tax break, so we decided that was more important.

Middle Class and Poor People should be able to pay for health care, even if the cost of a policy is more than their monthly Mortgage/Housing payment and they would still have insurmountable co-pays and co-insurance. They can eat cat food and live on the street while paying for their overpriced medical treatments so BIG Pharma and Health Care Executives can make bank and rip-off the taxpayers via Medicare/Medicaid.  Yeah, that'll work (Sarcasm).

www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/reality-check-obama-cuts-social-security-and-medicare-by-much-more-than-the-gop/274919/

And here's the bottom line: Obama preserves federal Medicaid spending, he doesn't unwind Obamacare, and he spends much more on mandatory and non-defense discretionary programs than Ryan proposed. But his cuts to Social Security and Medicare combined are somewhere between $200 billion and $380 billion deeper than the GOP budget. On these programs there is no room to "compromise." The president is already to the right of the right.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2017 17:06:30 GMT -5 Opti said:

I'll read the article later, but does this mean I missed the opportunity to blame the Republicans for the ACA passing originally?

Maybe. Were you one of those that kept telling us "this is the Republican's plan"?

[dondub]

The ACA? Yep, based on a Heritage Foundation proposal and an implementation by Mitt as gov of Massachusetts.

[dezii]

Dec 18, 2017 16:38:19 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I did not want to post this link in the old Republican tax reform bill thread.

www.cnbc.com/2017/12/18/democrats-failed-to-give-tax-reform-proper-attention-commentary.html

A premise many here will disagree with, except for a few of us here.
Before denouncing the article, take a few minutes to read it and think about it.

I read it....denounce it....GOP was going to pass this one way or the other..HAd to  or it would have been all over for them..mid term coming up...they would have kept making compromises till everyone was on board and didn't really want to p off the Donald and his base..

[thyme4change]

Dec 18, 2017 21:54:39 GMT -5 dezii said:

Dec 18, 2017 16:38:19 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I did not want to post this link in the old Republican tax reform bill thread.

www.cnbc.com/2017/12/18/democrats-failed-to-give-tax-reform-proper-attention-commentary.html

A premise many here will disagree with, except for a few of us here.
Before denouncing the article, take a few minutes to read it and think about it.

I read it....denounce it....GOP was going to pass this one way or the other..HAd to  or it would have been all over for them..mid term coming up...they would have kept making compromises till everyone was on board and didn't really want to p off the Donald and his base..

The big people with big money will have their teams figure out the effect of this. The rest of us won't know until April 14th 2019. The election will be over. So, the GOP didn't have to make the bill actually help the common man - just make it confusing, and then tell them that it will help them, and hope they don't do the math, but vote on faith.

[dezii]

Dec 18, 2017 23:08:48 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:54:39 GMT -5 dezii said:

I read it....denounce it....GOP was going to pass this one way or the other..HAd to  or it would have been all over for them..mid term coming up...they would have kept making compromises till everyone was on board and didn't really want to p off the Donald and his base..

The big people with big money will have their teams figure out the effect of this. The rest of us won't know until April 14th 2019. The election will be over. So, the GOP didn't have to make the bill actually help the common man - just make it confusing, and then tell them that it will help them, and hope they don't do the math, but vote on faith.

Unlike Obama Care...where it wasn't broken down for the average person could understand yje intricacies of the "Affordable CARE Act"...this tax reform was broken down...by both conservatives and those on te left , supposedly there was a 60 plus % of voters against the tax plan...

Former Secretary Penetta today on CNN, besides the $1.5 trillion increase in debt he admits will be the first fall out over ten years, ...he claims if all the side deals within the act..if extended as it is suggested they will be...and with interest rates increasing as the are doing right now..the additions to our debt can reach  $4 trillion...

I didn't understand all of his explanation but he went into it quite deeply...Panetta is a very smart experienced guy..., not someone who just puts out  accusations, suggestions with out reason...This is a bad tax plan over all...no matter what our Donald says and the GOP  is guilty for going along with the Donald's wants...

Since when does anyone in their right mind believe anything this POTUS claims..he lies and lies ...to the point I don't believe he is capable of stating truths if he wanted too.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2017 23:08:48 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:54:39 GMT -5 dezii said:

I read it....denounce it....GOP was going to pass this one way or the other..HAd to  or it would have been all over for them..mid term coming up...they would have kept making compromises till everyone was on board and didn't really want to p off the Donald and his base..

The big people with big money will have their teams figure out the effect of this. The rest of us won't know until April 14th 2019. The election will be over. So, the GOP didn't have to make the bill actually help the common man - just make it confusing, and then tell them that it will help them, and hope they don't do the math, but vote on faith.

Some of us will know February 1^st, 2019 (or thereabouts)... when we file our taxes.

Still after the vote though, and too late to matter to the voters of 2018.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 18, 2017 21:41:14 GMT -5 dondub said:

The ACA? Yep, based on a Heritage Foundation proposal and an implementation by Mitt as gov of Massachusetts.

it's the best healthcare plan that the GOP ever came up with.

[Value Buy]

Dec 19, 2017 1:44:52 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:41:14 GMT -5 dondub said:

The ACA? Yep, based on a Heritage Foundation proposal and an implementation by Mitt as gov of Massachusetts.

it's the best healthcare plan that the GOP ever came up with.

Darn, there is some truth there, if you believe the government should furnish and or subsidize everybody's wants.

[b2r]

Dec 19, 2017 1:35:00 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Dec 18, 2017 23:08:48 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The big people with big money will have their teams figure out the effect of this. The rest of us won't know until April 14th 2019. The election will be over. So, the GOP didn't have to make the bill actually help the common man - just make it confusing, and then tell them that it will help them, and hope they don't do the math, but vote on faith.

Some of us will know February 1^st, 2019 (or thereabouts)... when we file our taxes.

Still after the vote though, and too late to matter to the voters of 2018.

    I heard that if you receive a paycheck you are going to see an increase in February of 2018. Plus the increase of not having to purchase health insurance without penalty (should you choose not to).

[Deleted]

There isn’t going to be much of an increase for most people. Especially cut 26/52 ways. And a loss of health insurance isn’t going to be considered a win by all either. 

Regardless. The impact of this year is going to be far reaching. Barring significant turn around, we are done. Might as well soak up the benefits till the end, place ourselves at the best possible protective position for when the final struts fall. 

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2017 7:04:25 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 19, 2017 1:44:52 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it's the best healthcare plan that the GOP ever came up with.

Darn, there is some truth there, if you believe the government should furnish and or subsidize everybody's wants.

the ACA doesn't do that, so what are you referring to?

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2017 8:26:58 GMT -5 b2r said:

Dec 19, 2017 1:35:00 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Some of us will know February 1^st, 2019 (or thereabouts)... when we file our taxes.

Still after the vote though, and too late to matter to the voters of 2018.

    I heard that if you receive a paycheck you are going to see an increase in February of 2018. Plus the increase of not having to purchase health insurance without penalty (should you choose not to).

according to Paul, 47% of people don't pay taxes, so how is that possible?

[b2r]

taxplancalculator.com/ run some numbers!

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2017 12:08:58 GMT -5 b2r said:

taxplancalculator.com/ run some numbers!

i am a 10%er.  i am going to save bank.  i am going to use it to buy a condo in Malta.  i already mentioned that.

i am also a deficit hawk.  run some numbers yourself.

[Deleted]

Oh, I’m going to make out great. I’m also pretty much decided to suck as much out of this failing system as I can on the way down. I’ll also be talking to the parental unit about increasing lifetime restructuring which is bound to change as the estate tax does. 

Ill be ready. And I’ve decided we are all I care about. 

[b2r]

[tbop77]

Dec 19, 2017 13:14:08 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Dec 19, 2017 8:33:26 GMT -5 oped said:

There isn’t going to be much of an increase for most people. Especially cut 26/52 ways. And a loss of health insurance isn’t going to be considered a win by all either. 

Regardless. The impact of this year is going to be far reaching. Barring significant turn around, we are done. Might as well soak up the benefits till the end, place ourselves at the best possible protective position for when the final struts fall. 

umm, the bill has no provisions that ban you from buying health insurance, they simply end the blatantly unjust requirement that you purchase a government approved product to stay out of jail.  feel free to buy all the health insurance you want after the bill passes, they won't, in the slightest, try to stop anyone

Just checking to see if it ends the blatant unjust requirement of hospitals having to treat everyone who choose not to purchase health insurance that causes my premiums to increase. 

[hurley1980]

Per the calculator above I will be saving (by not itemizing my deduction) about 2K a year.

I think I'm going to take that extra 2K and buy some school supplies for all of those poor teachers that are no longer able to write off their classroom expenses. Or did that change?  And if it didn't, how is that supposed to help the middle class?

[b2r]

Won't that teacher see similar savings...potato, potahto.

[giramomma]

Dec 19, 2017 13:37:34 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Per the calculator above I will be saving (by not itemizing my deduction) about 2K a year.

I think I'm going to take that extra 2K and buy some school supplies for all of those poor teachers that are no longer able to write off their classroom expenses. Or did that change?  And if it didn't, how is that supposed to help the middle class?

I think it got put back in.

And, even if it didn't, don't you know, education is bad, teachers are bad. Why bother helping them?

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2017 13:27:38 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Dec 19, 2017 13:14:08 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

umm, the bill has no provisions that ban you from buying health insurance, they simply end the blatantly unjust requirement that you purchase a government approved product to stay out of jail.  feel free to buy all the health insurance you want after the bill passes, they won't, in the slightest, try to stop anyone

Just checking to see if it ends the blatant unjust requirement of hospitals having to treat everyone who choose not to purchase health insurance that causes my premiums to increase. 

They also still require insurance companies to insure anyone, regardless of preexusting conditions... good for me (if I can afford it) not so good for insurance companies...

[dondub]

Many charity clinics, hospitals, and doctor practices went bankrupt prior to the ACA. The costs of these bancos were then passed on to the rest of us. The ACA was attempting to stem that tide.

[Value Buy]

Dec 19, 2017 13:37:34 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Per the calculator above I will be saving (by not itemizing my deduction) about 2K a year.

I think I'm going to take that extra 2K and buy some school supplies for all of those poor teachers that are no longer able to write off their classroom expenses. Or did that change?  And if it didn't, how is that supposed to help the middle class?

Go ahead and buy the supplies!

That is the idea of the tax bill for citizens to buy things, and expand the economy.
It is your choice on what to spend it on.
This was the whole idea of the tax break. Go forth and multiply!
Your dollars that is, green gold!
Expand the economy by you, the consumer having money to spend the way you want to.
See you get it after all.
Helping to expand the economy one purchase at a time!

[Value Buy]

Dec 19, 2017 14:51:47 GMT -5 dondub said:

Many charity clinics, hospitals, and doctor practices went bankrupt prior to the ACA. The costs of these bancos were then passed on to the rest of us. The ACA was attempting to stem that tide.

I'm sorry, but could I have a link to bankruptcies being the reason for this?
I always thought it was so the uninsured had insurance.
Evidently the Democrats passed it to pad the doctor's and hospital's bottom line and had nothing to do with citizen's rights to healthcare after all.