happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 1, 2018 12:52:35 GMT -5
I was just coming back here to post that! You beat me to it. 
Shit's getting real, now. Trump has apparently spent a lot of time glued to the Manafort trial, perhaps what he sees unfolding there is agitating him.
Love how he spins it as 'a stain on our country' rather than 'They're getting way to close to home.'
Just as a thought experiment, should Trump fire both Sessions and Rosenstein in his own version of a Saturday night Massacre, what is likely to happen?
Outrage from all sides. It didn't work out well for Nixon and will not work out well for trump. Talk shows last night were mentioning the possibility of don junior being indicted over the trump tower meeting and that don senior would pardon him. There will be outrage and irreparable damage to trump senior. Fatal damage. I've also heard that Manafort has an expectation that he will also get a presidential pardon, if he gets convicted.
Not sure how popular that would be, if Trump pardons a buddy who laundered money for the Russians and cheated on his taxes.
I always thought presidential pardons were supposed to be for people who were wrongfully convicted, not close personal friends who spent too much money on ostrich coats and had to cheat on their taxes to make up the difference.
Not sure Trump understands the use of the presidential pardons, though, so far he seems to think it's a reward for people who suck up to him nicely.
Interesting to see how the Trumpettes respond to Trump graciously pardoning family members and pals.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2018 13:16:40 GMT -5
i think this prosecution is strategic. i am not going to explain that. just watch.  |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 1, 2018 14:40:34 GMT -5
Outrage from all sides. It didn't work out well for Nixon and will not work out well for trump. Talk shows last night were mentioning the possibility of don junior being indicted over the trump tower meeting and that don senior would pardon him. There will be outrage and irreparable damage to trump senior. Fatal damage. I've also heard that Manafort has an expectation that he will also get a presidential pardon, if he gets convicted.
Not sure how popular that would be, if Trump pardons a buddy who laundered money for the Russians and cheated on his taxes.
I always thought presidential pardons were supposed to be for people who were wrongfully convicted, not close personal friends who spent too much money on ostrich coats and had to cheat on their taxes to make up the difference.
Not sure Trump understands the use of the presidential pardons, though, so far he seems to think it's a reward for people who suck up to him nicely.
Interesting to see how the Trumpettes respond to Trump graciously pardoning family members and pals.
I think it is time to make a constitutional change of the President's pardon. H.W. used them inappropriately, Clinton used them inappropriately, Obama pardoned a bunch of people. And I am sure W did too, but I wasn't paying attention at the time. Trump has already pissed me off with his pardon power, and if his friends and family did anything wrong, he will pardon all of them too. It is a problem. It has been a problem. And it will be a problem in the future. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 1, 2018 14:50:18 GMT -5
I've also heard that Manafort has an expectation that he will also get a presidential pardon, if he gets convicted.
Not sure how popular that would be, if Trump pardons a buddy who laundered money for the Russians and cheated on his taxes.
I always thought presidential pardons were supposed to be for people who were wrongfully convicted, not close personal friends who spent too much money on ostrich coats and had to cheat on their taxes to make up the difference.
Not sure Trump understands the use of the presidential pardons, though, so far he seems to think it's a reward for people who suck up to him nicely.
Interesting to see how the Trumpettes respond to Trump graciously pardoning family members and pals.
I think it is time to make a constitutional change of the President's pardon. H.W. used them inappropriately, Clinton used them inappropriately, Obama pardoned a bunch of people. And I am sure W did too, but I wasn't paying attention at the time. Trump has already pissed me off with his pardon power, and if his friends and family did anything wrong, he will pardon all of them too. It is a problem. It has been a problem. And it will be a problem in the future. All petitions for a presidential pardon are 'supposed' to be reviewed by the Office of the Pardon Attorney, an office within the Department of Justice, before being sent to the president for his consideration. It has been said our past presidents followed that protocol before granting pardon, or conditional commutations of sentence and the like. That is not what trump has done. he has bypassed the Office of the Pardon Attorney for their review and recommendation. trump acts without advice and counsel from that office. |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 1, 2018 17:07:37 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2018 17:13:08 GMT -5
right. and a boss telling is secretary to "ride my meat pony" is just making playful office banter. |
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 1, 2018 19:59:39 GMT -5
Can't have a pardon if thee is n conviction
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2018 21:14:29 GMT -5
Can't have a pardon if thee is n conviction is that the outcome you expect? |
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 1, 2018 22:06:39 GMT -5
Can't have a pardon if thee is n conviction is that the outcome you expect? Yes either that or a conviction with a commuted sentence |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2018 22:10:25 GMT -5
is that the outcome you expect? Yes either that or a conviction with a commuted sentence by "commute" do you mean "pardon"? |
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 1, 2018 22:16:57 GMT -5
Yes either that or a conviction with a commuted sentence by "commute" do you mean "pardon"? Not in the sense from Trump but from the judge |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 1, 2018 22:22:01 GMT -5
... a conviction with a commuted sentence Sounds about right for our justice system. In other news: A Reno man has been sentenced to 48 years in prison for a convenience store robbery spree in October 2017. link |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2018 22:25:46 GMT -5
by "commute" do you mean "pardon"? Not in the sense from Trump but from the judge interesting. ok, in case you want to hear my prediction, here it is: i think he gets what amounts to the death penalty. and i think he gets pardoned. i actually expected more from him. this is a guy that put together deals that i can only dream of. deals that netted him millions. he has a fantastic lifestyle. i envy him greatly, in a great many things. and, like most people who occupy those lofty heights, i figure that they are borderline geniuses to obtain and retain that. but defending yourself by throwing your understudy under the bus is really weak defense. it rarely works, and i don't think you need me or anyone else to explain why. he doesn't actually appear to be trying. what he appears to be doing is trying to get himself the cushiest life he can before sentencing, and that is about it. which says to me that he is banking on Trump pardoning him.
i could speculate about WHY he thinks he will get pardoned. if you believe Trump, i see no reason why Manfort should be optimistic about that idea. but he is BEHAVING as if he is 100% confident about it. again, i might be wrong. i often am. i am just guessing. but i am also watching this pretty closely.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 2, 2018 6:57:29 GMT -5
Not in the sense from Trump but from the judge interesting. ok, in case you want to hear my prediction, here it is: i think he gets what amounts to the death penalty. and i think he gets pardoned. i actually expected more from him. this is a guy that put together deals that i can only dream of. deals that netted him millions. he has a fantastic lifestyle. i envy him greatly, in a great many things. and, like most people who occupy those lofty heights, i figure that they are borderline geniuses to obtain and retain that. but defending yourself by throwing your understudy under the bus is really weak defense. it rarely works, and i don't think you need me or anyone else to explain why. he doesn't actually appear to be trying. what he appears to be doing is trying to get himself the cushiest life he can before sentencing, and that is about it. which says to me that he is banking on Trump pardoning him.
i could speculate about WHY he thinks he will get pardoned. if you believe Trump, i see no reason why Manfort should be optimistic about that idea. but he is BEHAVING as if he is 100% confident about it. again, i might be wrong. i often am. i am just guessing. but i am also watching this pretty closely.
There are multiple outcomes here. He knows where the bodies are buried on both sides of the political landscape Trump AND the democratic opposition. 1. He knows enough to bury Trump. 2. He knows enough about Russia, back door money payoffs and bribes and high connected Democrats who were doing the same thing he was the past few years by other people who represented Putin's interests without reporting they were agents of a foreign government. Unless Mueller starts asking the correct questions to him, he has to make the deal. It all works out for him in the end, unless he has nothing to give on Trump. For some reason he still looks like the chesire cat smiling away. The problem with this scene is, do these peole have enough power to have Mueller bury their crimes for them. |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 2, 2018 8:00:31 GMT -5
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Aug 2, 2018 12:27:49 GMT -5
I'd argue that trump himself is the perjury trap, not any particular interview or investigation. Since he is a non-stop lie-a-thon, any occasion of him talking under oath is going to result in perjury. |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 2, 2018 12:50:37 GMT -5
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Aug 2, 2018 12:54:01 GMT -5
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 3, 2018 7:52:47 GMT -5
This article explains Trump's mind set perfectly.
Trump can't accept that a seasoned professional FBI agent, one who headed the FBI during the days after 911, very highly commended by both Dems and GOPers for his integrity, isn't 'conflicted' because Mueller had a dispute with Trump over some golf club fees 10 years ago.
For Trump, life is tit for tat. Someone screws you, you screw them harder. Someone does something 'not nice' to you, you file that in your rolodex and hold that grudge against him until the day that person dies, and even if it's decades in the future, if you get the opportunity to retaliate, seize it.
The idea that someone could have the integrity and the ability to separate out their past personal history and biases against someone and work professionally with them in an impartial way is not a concept that Trump can even grasp in his mind. Sad.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-fury-over-mueller-%E2%80%98conflicts%E2%80%99-dates-to-oval-office-meeting/ar-BBLr9L2
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Aug 3, 2018 8:10:12 GMT -5
This article explains Trump's mind set perfectly.
Trump can't accept that a seasoned professional FBI agent, one who headed the FBI during the days after 911, very highly commended by both Dems and GOPers for his integrity, isn't 'conflicted' because Mueller had a dispute with Trump over some golf club fees 10 years ago.
For Trump, life is tit for tat. Someone screws you, you screw them harder. Someone does something 'not nice' to you, you file that in your rolodex and hold that grudge against him until the day that person dies, and even if it's decades in the future, if you get the opportunity to retaliate, seize it.
The idea that someone could have the integrity and the ability to separate out their past personal history and biases against someone and work professionally with them in an impartial way is not a concept that Trump can even grasp in his mind. Sad.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-fury-over-mueller-%E2%80%98conflicts%E2%80%99-dates-to-oval-office-meeting/ar-BBLr9L2
That is the whole "hoax" thing in a nut shell...he can't grasp the concept/truth in his mind....his mind doesn't work that way and it's getting smaller every day. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 3, 2018 8:43:28 GMT -5
by "commute" do you mean "pardon"? Not in the sense from Trump but from the judge I don't understand your response. Are you stating a judge can commute or pardon a person's conviction and punishment after being convicted of a crime? |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 6, 2018 16:38:43 GMT -5
These guys are so fucking sleazy. Gates admitted in testimony today that he embezzled money from Manafort. Like a couple hundred thousand a year. And he used to embezzle money from his previous employers.
Apparently, Manafort had 12 overseas companies he and Gates controlled, and he used it to hide money so he wouldn't have to pay taxes on it. www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/paul-manafort-trial-day-5-rick-gates-testifies-he-committed-crimes-with-manafort/ar-BBLzLDA
I still want to know why Manafort, who was broke at the time, agreed to work for Trump as his campaign manager for free. Manafort apparently charged quite a lot for his services, and never did anything for free, so what did he gain by working for Trump?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 6, 2018 16:57:32 GMT -5
These guys are so fucking sleazy. Gates admitted in testimony today that he embezzled money from Manafort. Like a couple hundred thousand a year. And he used to embezzle money from his previous employers.
Apparently, Manafort had 12 overseas companies he and Gates controlled, and he used it to hide money so he wouldn't have to pay taxes on it. www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/paul-manafort-trial-day-5-rick-gates-testifies-he-committed-crimes-with-manafort/ar-BBLzLDA
I still want to know why Manafort, who was broke at the time, agreed to work for Trump as his campaign manager for free. Manafort apparently charged quite a lot for his services, and never did anything for free, so what did he gain by working for Trump?
i have a theory. want to hear it? |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 6, 2018 17:19:57 GMT -5
These guys are so fucking sleazy. Gates admitted in testimony today that he embezzled money from Manafort. Like a couple hundred thousand a year. And he used to embezzle money from his previous employers.
Apparently, Manafort had 12 overseas companies he and Gates controlled, and he used it to hide money so he wouldn't have to pay taxes on it. www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/paul-manafort-trial-day-5-rick-gates-testifies-he-committed-crimes-with-manafort/ar-BBLzLDA
I still want to know why Manafort, who was broke at the time, agreed to work for Trump as his campaign manager for free. Manafort apparently charged quite a lot for his services, and never did anything for free, so what did he gain by working for Trump?
i have a theory. want to hear it? I would love to. You have interesting theories. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 6, 2018 20:24:26 GMT -5
i have a theory. want to hear it? I would love to. You have interesting theories. ok. so here is what we know about Manifold (intentional typo): 1) he likes to live large 2) he had a really beaut of a deal for Deripaska 3) Deripaska and Putin are well connected 4) Putin had/s an active and ongoing interest in Trump 5) after Deripaska was deposed, the gravy stopped flowing to Manifold so, if you are Manifold, what do you do? you look for another gravy spigot. Trump has a reputation for demanding a lot and paying little. he is basically Jaba The Hutt. so, Manifold knows that he is not going to get any long term gravy from Jaba. HOWEVER, he also knows that the gravy flows freely from Putin's crew of oligarchs. moreover, he knows that Jaba had excellent banking relations**. so, if i am Manifold, i am thinking that if i can connect to Putin and Company, i can get the gravy flowing again- that Jaba is a good conduit for that- and that i don't really care if Putin and Jaba have a direct connection or not. in other words, i think Manifold viewed Jaba as a networking opportunity.
i don't think it panned out for him- but i think that was his plan.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Aug 7, 2018 3:54:42 GMT -5
This article explains Trump's mind set perfectly.
Trump can't accept that a seasoned professional FBI agent, one who headed the FBI during the days after 911, very highly commended by both Dems and GOPers for his integrity, isn't 'conflicted' because Mueller had a dispute with Trump over some golf club fees 10 years ago.
For Trump, life is tit for tat. Someone screws you, you screw them harder. Someone does something 'not nice' to you, you file that in your rolodex and hold that grudge against him until the day that person dies, and even if it's decades in the future, if you get the opportunity to retaliate, seize it.
The idea that someone could have the integrity and the ability to separate out their past personal history and biases against someone and work professionally with them in an impartial way is not a concept that Trump can even grasp in his mind. Sad.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-fury-over-mueller-%E2%80%98conflicts%E2%80%99-dates-to-oval-office-meeting/ar-BBLr9L2
A talking head on CNN last night who has followed the antics of Trump it seems forever feels he will throw his son under the bus if necessary....possible then pardon the kid...but in his mind...the most important thing in life is himself, the Donald, his survival..... As he just did...admitted that son spoke to Russians to get dirt on Hillery...big change there..who knows what Jr told Mueller, under oath...though am sure Jr. told the old man and the lawyers after his chat with Mueller.... He now is on all the media shows, being told to keep his mouth shut, saying he never mentioned that to his father as if anyone with half a mind believe he went to that meeting with out Donald knowing and his blessing. The latest , gathering information on opponents, is not a crime, NOT COLLUSION. Conspiracy is however a crime and more and more it seems that is where all this is heading. Basically the kid is now being run over by the bus...just a matter of time before his condition is known...possible why Donald is so in a frenzy to stop Mueller's investigation, like that will end all inquiries... |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 7, 2018 6:42:30 GMT -5
I would love to. You have interesting theories. ok. so here is what we know about Manifold (intentional typo): 1) he likes to live large 2) he had a really beaut of a deal for Deripaska 3) Deripaska and Putin are well connected 4) Putin had/s an active and ongoing interest in Trump 5) after Deripaska was deposed, the gravy stopped flowing to Manifold so, if you are Manifold, what do you do? you look for another gravy spigot. Trump has a reputation for demanding a lot and paying little. he is basically Jaba The Hutt. so, Manifold knows that he is not going to get any long term gravy from Jaba. HOWEVER, he also knows that the gravy flows freely from Putin's crew of oligarchs. moreover, he knows that Jaba had excellent banking relations**. so, if i am Manifold, i am thinking that if i can connect to Putin and Company, i can get the gravy flowing again- that Jaba is a good conduit for that- and that i don't really care if Putin and Jaba have a direct connection or not. in other words, i think Manifold viewed Jaba as a networking opportunity.
i don't think it panned out for him- but i think that was his plan.
Sounds plausible.
Manifort isn't the kind of person who would have served on Trump's campaign just for the good of the country.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 7, 2018 23:50:32 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 8, 2018 0:37:28 GMT -5
But the memos also raise questions about Ohr’s and the Justice Department’s roles in the origins of building a counterintelligence case against the Republican presidential nominee, based heavily on opposition research funded by his rival's campaign, the DNC, and the DNC’s main law firm, Perkins Coie. If there was inappropriate behavior done by the Republican presidential nominee, I don't care how it started to come to light. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 8, 2018 0:41:08 GMT -5
the trial today drew a DIRECT connection between Manafort's work and Putin. that portion of the trial was redacted (it is not part of the public record).
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