billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 19, 2018 14:02:05 GMT -5
The start of the Mueller segment starts about 8:20. Good to hear wording that is left out of the quote in the link in the OP. Senator Robert Casey 2-18-18
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 19, 2018 15:24:42 GMT -5
true. but President Pelosi won't. I hate Trump and Pence scares the shit out of me, but I got a shiver down my spine when I read that. I wonder if I will ever like a President again. that was precisely the reaction i was longing for. thanks.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 19, 2018 16:03:33 GMT -5
if so, who do you think the target is? Ultimately, Trump himself. Manafort was at the meeting with Kushner and Trump, Jr. so would likely talk about them. He was with the campaign for several months and its chairman for two or three. He is probably facing years in prison already. If it is true that Trump family members soured on Manafort and had a role in his "resignation" as campaign chairman I'm not sure I would bet against him settling a couple of scores before he goes. He doesn't really impress me as the kind who would take a bullet. As a followup, it has been reported that on the day that Manafort "resigned" from the Trump campaign he opened a shell company that received $13 million in loans from two businesses with ties to Trump. We know from before that Manafort had ties to Putin and his allies. We also know there are new charges of bank fraud to go along with everything he was charged with before. The word is that Gates is cooperating and will testify against Manafort in return for a “substantial reduction in his sentence.” If that substantial reduction still results in at least 18 months in prison as has been speculated, and knowing that Gates was always charged with and expected to serve less time than Manafort, what is Manafort actually facing in terms of prison time? Ten years, maybe more? If Trump is counting on Manafort not to talk he may be more than a little disappointed.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 19, 2018 16:27:56 GMT -5
So, to summarize the consensus... - Pres. Trump involved his lawyers only to put a veneer of legitimacy on what is truly an unenforceable NDA.
- Paying a mistress for her silence during a political campaign legally qualifies as a "campaign related expense" that must be publicly declared.
- Pres. Trump's lawyer can be disbarred for paying one of Trump's mistresses on Trump's behalf (or even claiming to do so), but did so anyway in order to convince the woman to sign a fake NDA.
Maybe I am naive, but this all sounds like crazytown to me. Especially (2). I'm sticking with my "wishful thinking" theory for now.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 19, 2018 16:44:49 GMT -5
So, to summarize the consensus... - Pres. Trump involved his lawyers only to put a veneer of legitimacy on what is truly an unenforceable NDA. This was Trump's 'fixer' lawyer - see below. He's been with Trump for years, and acts as his 'intimidator.'
- Paying a mistress for her silence during a political campaign legally qualifies as a "campaign related expense" that must be publicly declared. I think that will probably have to be decided in court. I think Cohen believes it is not, or he wouldn't have stuck his neck out.
- Pres. Trump's lawyer can be disbarred for paying one of Trump's mistresses on Trump's behalf (or even claiming to do so), but did so anyway in order to convince the woman to sign a fake NDA. I think if you explore Cohen's history with Trump you will find he has acted in some 'grey' areas before.
Maybe I am naive, but this all sounds like crazytown to me. Especially (2). I'm sticking with my "wishful thinking" theory for now. I wouldn't call it 'wishful thinking.' I'd call it 'wonder where the train wreck goes next. '
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/tools-of-trump%e2%80%99s-fixer-payouts-intimidation-and-the-tabloids/ar-BBJjcrM
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 19, 2018 17:01:37 GMT -5
So, to summarize the consensus... - Pres. Trump involved his lawyers only to put a veneer of legitimacy on what is truly an unenforceable NDA. This was Trump's 'fixer' lawyer - see below. He's been with Trump for years, and acts as his 'intimidator.'
- Paying a mistress for her silence during a political campaign legally qualifies as a "campaign related expense" that must be publicly declared. I think that will probably have to be decided in court. I think Cohen believes it is not, or he wouldn't have stuck his neck out.
- Pres. Trump's lawyer can be disbarred for paying one of Trump's mistresses on Trump's behalf (or even claiming to do so), but did so anyway in order to convince the woman to sign a fake NDA. I think if you explore Cohen's history with Trump you will find he has acted in some 'grey' areas before.
Maybe I am naive, but this all sounds like crazytown to me. Especially (2). I'm sticking with my "wishful thinking" theory for now. i agree, you are engaging in wishful thinking. for the record, i can't figure out why you are giving this guy the benefit of the doubt.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 19, 2018 17:35:41 GMT -5
2. Paying a mistress for her silence during a political campaign legally qualifies as a "campaign related expense" that must be publicly declared. I think that will probably have to be decided in court. I think Cohen believes it is not, or he wouldn't have stuck his neck out I'll concede points (1) and (3). Point (2), though... Just... By what conceivable logic is paying off a mistress out of one's own pocket a "campaign related expense"? It boggles the mind. I refuse to believe any sane judge will let it get beyond a summary dismissal. If this is truly the ripest fruit of the Mueller investigation, you'd better hope it doesn't go to court. If it's what the Democrats try to use to bring down Pres. Trump, they're going to fail and wind up making him look like a martyr. There are limits as to how ridiculous charges can be while still having political clout, even today. If more comes out of the investigation, then maybe you'll be cooking with gas.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 19, 2018 18:10:45 GMT -5
I think that will probably have to be decided in court. I think Cohen believes it is not, or he wouldn't have stuck his neck out I'll concede points (1) and (3). Point (2), though... Just... By what conceivable logic is paying off a mistress out of one's own pocket a "campaign related expense"? It boggles the mind. I refuse to believe any sane judge will let it get beyond a summary dismissal. If this is truly the ripest fruit of the Mueller investigation, you'd better hope it doesn't go to court. If it's what the Democrats try to use to bring down Pres. Trump, they're going to fail and wind up making him look like a martyr. There are limits as to how ridiculous charges can be while still having political clout, even today. If more comes out of the investigation, then maybe you'll be cooking with gas. I'm not going down the political mine field that is the American legal system combined with campaign finance rules. Someone way smarter than me would have to outline the legalities of it.
It's interesting, though, that the Bill Clinton investigation started out with Whitewater and ended with the blue dress, and the Hillary thing started with Bengazi! and ended up with the private server. It seems that these special investigations continue until they find something - although not always something prosecutable/impeachable, but often far from what started the investigation in the first place.
And I do find it amusing to consider the possibility that Trump, with his grab hands and his boasts about touching women, could ultimately end up getting snagged on the payments he made to his mistresses. Amusing to think about, but not likely to happen, since life isn't really like a sit-com.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 19, 2018 18:25:04 GMT -5
I'll concede points (1) and (3). Point (2), though... Just... By what conceivable logic is paying off a mistress out of one's own pocket a "campaign related expense"? It boggles the mind. I refuse to believe any sane judge will let it get beyond a summary dismissal. If this is truly the ripest fruit of the Mueller investigation, you'd better hope it doesn't go to court. If it's what the Democrats try to use to bring down Pres. Trump, they're going to fail and wind up making him look like a martyr. There are limits as to how ridiculous charges can be while still having political clout, even today. If more comes out of the investigation, then maybe you'll be cooking with gas. I'm not going down the political mine field that is the American legal system combined with campaign finance rules. Someone way smarter than me would have to outline the legalities of it.
It's interesting, though, that the Bill Clinton investigation started out with Whitewater and ended with the blue dress, and the Hillary thing started with Bengazi! and ended up with the private server. It seems that these special investigations continue until they find something - although not always something prosecutable/impeachable, but often far from what started the investigation in the first place.
And I do find it amusing to consider the possibility that Trump, with his grab hands and his boasts about touching women, could ultimately end up getting snagged on the payments he made to his mistresses. Amusing to think about, but not likely to happen, since life isn't really like a sit-com.
"although not always something prosecutable/impeachable, " It seems when ever the word " impeachable" is used with regarding a POTUS.. that it seems to me that most forget how few times in our history has that really happened and in this case..with our current one in office, unless there is a major change in the thinking of members of Congress...to go after the sitting President , especially one from the same political party, even for some , in name only...there is little appetite for that... Even in the aftermaths of our up coming midterms, unless there is a hugh turnover in #'s political, ...I wonder if the #'s will be there or the will , considering who would take over as POTUS...and having to consider his publicly stated views on so many topics...the old saying paraphrased ..."better the devil one knows rather then one that is a complete stranger"...or something along those lines.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 19, 2018 18:25:23 GMT -5
.... If this is truly the ripest fruit of the Mueller investigation, ... If more comes out of the investigation, then maybe you'll be cooking with gas. I don't see where Mueller is harvesting from this tree.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 18:46:59 GMT -5
Why was she paid of in 2016 and not 2006?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 19, 2018 18:57:15 GMT -5
I think that will probably have to be decided in court. I think Cohen believes it is not, or he wouldn't have stuck his neck out I'll concede points (1) and (3). Point (2), though... Just... By what conceivable logic is paying off a mistress out of one's own pocket a "campaign related expense"? It boggles the mind. I refuse to believe any sane judge will let it get beyond a summary dismissal. If this is truly the ripest fruit of the Mueller investigation, you'd better hope it doesn't go to court. If it's what the Democrats try to use to bring down Pres. Trump, they're going to fail and wind up making him look like a martyr. There are limits as to how ridiculous charges can be while still having political clout, even today. If more comes out of the investigation, then maybe you'll be cooking with gas. Where did you get the idea that any of this came out of the Mueller investigation, or that he is even concerned with this? He's got bigger fish to fry.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 19, 2018 19:45:44 GMT -5
Where did you get the idea that any of this came out of the Mueller investigation, or that he is even concerned with this? He's got bigger fish to fry. I'm not sure. I was under the impression that Mr. Gates was being pushed to leverage Mr. Manafort, who was being pushed to disclose something incriminating about Pres. Trump, and this issue with the mistresses and payoffs was what fell out of the tree. I can't say why the two got mashed together. It may have been rockhounder's comment, "This is why [Pres. Trump] hates the investigation - he has a whole lot of (naked?) skeletons in his closet," which I assumed meant the naked skeletons under discussion had come from the Mueller tree. I blame all of you for dumping everything into this one thread.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 19:49:00 GMT -5
Manafort was in the trump tower meeting. I’m guessing that is at least one thing they want him to give up.
I fail to see how it’s other people’s problem when you proffer opinions and conclusions without reading nor understanding the situation.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 19, 2018 19:57:37 GMT -5
Where did you get the idea that any of this came out of the Mueller investigation, or that he is even concerned with this? He's got bigger fish to fry. I'm not sure. I was under the impression that Mr. Gates was being pushed to leverage Mr. Manafort, who was being pushed to disclose something incriminating about Pres. Trump, and this issue with the mistresses and payoffs was what fell out of the tree. I can't say why the two got mashed together. It may have been rockhounder's comment, "This is why [Pres. Trump] hates the investigation - he has a whole lot of (naked?) skeletons in his closet," which I assumed meant the naked skeletons under discussion had come from the Mueller tree. I blame all of you for dumping everything into this one thread. Well, it is the TREASON thread, so where else would we put all of the misdeeds of the closest thing we have ever had to a treasonous president and administration?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 19, 2018 20:23:37 GMT -5
I fail to see how it’s other people’s problem when you proffer opinions and conclusions without reading nor understanding the situation. I was being facetious. For reference, I reserve the spanky icon for facetious comments since a smiley pulling down his own butt really can't be taken seriously. Furthermore, I did read everything, and the origins of the mistress payoff accusations aren't relevant to any of the opinions or conclusions I've proffered.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 19, 2018 20:26:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure. I was under the impression that Mr. Gates was being pushed to leverage Mr. Manafort, who was being pushed to disclose something incriminating about Pres. Trump, and this issue with the mistresses and payoffs was what fell out of the tree. I can't say why the two got mashed together. It may have been rockhounder's comment, "This is why [Pres. Trump] hates the investigation - he has a whole lot of (naked?) skeletons in his closet," which I assumed meant the naked skeletons under discussion had come from the Mueller tree. I blame all of you for dumping everything into this one thread. Well, it is the TREASON thread, so where else would we put all of the misdeeds of the closest thing we have ever had to a treasonous president and administration? Put it in a "hookergate" thread or something. I'm sure Dezi's created ten of 'em by now.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 19, 2018 20:33:11 GMT -5
Well, it is the TREASON thread, so where else would we put all of the misdeeds of the closest thing we have ever had to a treasonous president and administration? Put it in a "hookergate" thread or something. I'm sure Dezi's created ten of 'em by now. There is just no pleasing you, is there? If we create a new thread for each of the Trump crimes, scandals, stupid things, etc., etc., etc. there will be nothing left anywhere else. Then you'll complain that every thread is nothing but Trump-bashing, even if it is all legitimate Trump-bashing, and ask us to put it all in one thread.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 20:37:55 GMT -5
Seriously. This thread title changes constantly. It’s not like it’s got a solid core.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 19, 2018 22:40:24 GMT -5
much like Trump
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 19, 2018 23:16:44 GMT -5
Put it in a "hookergate" thread or something. I'm sure Dezi's created ten of 'em by now. There is just no pleasing you, is there? If we create a new thread for each of the Trump crimes, scandals, stupid things, etc., etc., etc. there will be nothing left anywhere else. Then you'll complain that every thread is nothing but Trump-bashing, even if it is all legitimate Trump-bashing, and ask us to put it all in one thread. There's a middle ground between dumping every Trump-related scandal into the same thread (whose declared topic is the FBI "treason", no less), and creating four threads a day every day for 16 months. The ideal taxa would be one catch-all Trump scandal thread (call it the "Trump Diary") to collect all the daily beefs: Trump tweeted this, he said this about thus-and-such, he polled the members of Mar-a-Lago, he fell asleep during a luncheon, he called so-and-so this, he spent his weekend doing thus-and-such, etc., etc. The four-a-day quibbles that don't elicit feedback more substantive than grumbles of acknowledgement. Additionally, one Mueller investigation thread, which could just as well be this thread. And if something like the mistress payoffs evolves into an issue that will last for a while, each of these would be hosted in its own thread. The litmus test would be: Will we still be talking about this in a week, or will new developments be forthcoming in a week? If no, then it goes into the diary. If yes, and it doesn't fit into any existing scandal thread, it goes into a new thread. This is the ideal. I realize it's not going to happen, and you'll find I'm amenable to anything remotely close to it. The extremes of dumping every major scandal into one totally unrelated thread, or creating so many scandal threads that you're riding the machine-gun-fire hard limit set by admin more days than not, I reserve the right to complain about.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 20, 2018 7:51:51 GMT -5
Where did you get the idea that any of this came out of the Mueller investigation, or that he is even concerned with this? He's got bigger fish to fry. I'm not sure. I was under the impression that Mr. Gates was being pushed to leverage Mr. Manafort, who was being pushed to disclose something incriminating about Pres. Trump, and this issue with the mistresses and payoffs was what fell out of the tree. I can't say why the two got mashed together. It may have been rockhounder's comment, "This is why [Pres. Trump] hates the investigation - he has a whole lot of (naked?) skeletons in his closet," which I assumed meant the naked skeletons under discussion had come from the Mueller tree. I blame all of you for dumping everything into this one thread. Actually, I think it was me who led us all down this particular garden path.
I saw the talking heads show this weekend where one of them suggested that, while all the attention is on Mueller and company, there is also a peripheral investigation not getting much press that may also cause problems for Trump - and then they discussed how often these kinds of investigations start out pulling on one thread and then, by the end, they're looking at something else entirely.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 9:03:56 GMT -5
Seriously... his tweet storm again this morning is another mass of lies and contradictions.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 20, 2018 10:58:33 GMT -5
Seriously... his tweet storm again this morning is another mass of lies and contradictions. One might think that the increased number of tweets, combined with the rising level of animosity of those tweets, might indicate someone starting to feel backed into a corner.
Or he could just be grumpy that his former mistresses (who he thought he had bought and paid for) are now out in the light of day. He spent a lot of money in the expectation they'd disappear.
Or maybe he's grumpy he didn't get to golf every day this weekend due to the shooting. The best chocolate cake in the world can't make up for everything.
Who knows.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 20, 2018 11:01:08 GMT -5
There is just no pleasing you, is there? If we create a new thread for each of the Trump crimes, scandals, stupid things, etc., etc., etc. there will be nothing left anywhere else. Then you'll complain that every thread is nothing but Trump-bashing, even if it is all legitimate Trump-bashing, and ask us to put it all in one thread. There's a middle ground between dumping every Trump-related scandal into the same thread (whose declared topic is the FBI "treason", no less), and creating four threads a day every day for 16 months. The ideal taxa would be one catch-all Trump scandal thread (call it the "Trump Diary") to collect all the daily beefs: Trump tweeted this, he said this about thus-and-such, he polled the members of Mar-a-Lago, he fell asleep during a luncheon, he called so-and-so this, he spent his weekend doing thus-and-such, etc., etc. The four-a-day quibbles that don't elicit feedback more substantive than grumbles of acknowledgement. Additionally, one Mueller investigation thread, which could just as well be this thread. And if something like the mistress payoffs evolves into an issue that will last for a while, each of these would be hosted in its own thread. The litmus test would be: Will we still be talking about this in a week, or will new developments be forthcoming in a week? If no, then it goes into the diary. If yes, and it doesn't fit into any existing scandal thread, it goes into a new thread. This is the ideal. I realize it's not going to happen, and you'll find I'm amenable to anything remotely close to it. The extremes of dumping every major scandal into one totally unrelated thread, or creating so many scandal threads that you're riding the machine-gun-fire hard limit set by admin more days than not, I reserve the right to complain about. How about you just back off and let us chat?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 20, 2018 11:03:24 GMT -5
Seriously... his tweet storm again this morning is another mass of lies and contradictions. One might think that the increased number of tweets, combined with the rising level of animosity of those tweets, might indicate someone starting to feel backed into a corner.
Or he could just be grumpy that his former mistresses (who he thought he had bought and paid for) are now out in the light of day. He spent a lot of money in the expectation they'd disappear.
Or maybe he's grumpy he didn't get to golf every day this weekend due to the shooting. The best chocolate cake in the world can't make up for everything.
Who knows.
$130,000 for a multi billionaire like him is nothing. Or maybe he really doesn't have that much money and all these payments are making a big dent in his net worth?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 11:10:31 GMT -5
Trump did golf and go to a party this weekend. He spent 12 minutes of fake empathy at the hospital and then while parents buried their children down the street, he golfed and partied. Shocking. Not.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 20, 2018 11:16:25 GMT -5
One might think that the increased number of tweets, combined with the rising level of animosity of those tweets, might indicate someone starting to feel backed into a corner.
Or he could just be grumpy that his former mistresses (who he thought he had bought and paid for) are now out in the light of day. He spent a lot of money in the expectation they'd disappear.
Or maybe he's grumpy he didn't get to golf every day this weekend due to the shooting. The best chocolate cake in the world can't make up for everything.
Who knows.
$130,000 for a multi billionaire like him is nothing. Or maybe he really doesn't have that much money and all these payments are making a big dent in his net worth? I would agree that $130,000 for him is nothing - it's the idea that he made a deal for something that didn't stay bought that would piss him off.
He always has to 'win' every transaction. He paid these bitches to go away, and here they are, on national TV, talking about his sex life. That makes him a loser - which is the worst thing you can be, in Trumplandia.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 20, 2018 11:18:27 GMT -5
Not only is one of them talking about it, she's saying how mediocre he was.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 20, 2018 11:20:34 GMT -5
Not only is one of them talking about it, she's saying how mediocre he was. narcissists are not the best lovers.
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