tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 18, 2018 22:57:50 GMT -5
Wonder if this means that Manafort will flip now?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 18, 2018 23:47:57 GMT -5
Wonder if this means that Manafort will flip now? if so, who do you think the target is?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 19, 2018 0:47:16 GMT -5
Wonder if this means that Manafort will flip now? if so, who do you think the target is? Ultimately, Trump himself. Manafort was at the meeting with Kushner and Trump, Jr. so would likely talk about them. He was with the campaign for several months and its chairman for two or three. He is probably facing years in prison already. If it is true that Trump family members soured on Manafort and had a role in his "resignation" as campaign chairman I'm not sure I would bet against him settling a couple of scores before he goes. He doesn't really impress me as the kind who would take a bullet.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 19, 2018 1:44:40 GMT -5
if so, who do you think the target is? Ultimately, Trump himself. Manafort was at the meeting with Kushner and Trump, Jr. so would likely talk about them. He was with the campaign for several months and its chairman for two or three. He is probably facing years in prison already. If it is true that Trump family members soured on Manafort and had a role in his "resignation" as campaign chairman I'm not sure I would bet against him settling a couple of scores before he goes. He doesn't really impress me as the kind who would take a bullet. If they easily cooperate I would guess sentences in the 18 month to 36 months tops would be Manafort if he is also involved in money laundering..IMHO ...
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 19, 2018 8:26:58 GMT -5
I'm sure Pres. Trump et al. are a-shakin' in their boots. But, if Paul can dream...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 19, 2018 8:42:35 GMT -5
Ultimately, Trump himself. Manafort was at the meeting with Kushner and Trump, Jr. so would likely talk about them. He was with the campaign for several months and its chairman for two or three. He is probably facing years in prison already. If it is true that Trump family members soured on Manafort and had a role in his "resignation" as campaign chairman I'm not sure I would bet against him settling a couple of scores before he goes. He doesn't really impress me as the kind who would take a bullet. If they easily cooperate I would guess sentences in the 18 month to 36 months tops would be Manafort if he is also involved in money laundering..IMHO ... We were ready about some different white collar crimes - mortgage fraud that took the last dollar from thousands of families, investment fraud that ruined people, etc. Their sentences were compared to people who were caught with a really small amount of pot. It is amazing how many people you are allowed to hurt if you are rich and white.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 19, 2018 8:55:37 GMT -5
I'm sure Pres. Trump et al. are a-shakin' in their boots. But, if Paul can dream... I heard some talking heads this weekend discussing that possibility that it won't be the whole Mueller thing that brings Trump down, but his payouts to (at least two) women during the campaign to get them to sign agreements to not discuss their sexual relations with Trump.
Even if Trump's lawyer claims the payouts to the women came from his own pocket, that could be considered an undeclared campaign donation diverted to two women to buy their silence. Just as Clinton was brought down by lying about a relationship with an intern, Trump might end up indicted not for obstruction or campaign collusion, but for a peripheral charge - campaign finances.
Not saying that will happen, but wouldn't it be ironic if Trump's downfall came about due to women, after all the sleazy comments he has made about them?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 9:14:33 GMT -5
Trump is tweeting like he’s pissing his pants.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 19, 2018 9:14:52 GMT -5
I'm sure Pres. Trump et al. are a-shakin' in their boots. But, if Paul can dream... I heard some talking heads this weekend discussing that possibility that it won't be the whole Mueller thing that brings Trump down, but his payouts to (at least two) women during the campaign to get them to sign agreements to not discuss their sexual relations with Trump.
Even if Trump's lawyer claims the payouts to the women came from his own pocket, that could be considered an undeclared campaign donation diverted to two women to buy their silence. Just as Clinton was brought down by lying about a relationship with an intern, Trump might end up indicted not for obstruction or campaign collusion, but for a peripheral charge - campaign finances.
Not saying that will happen, but wouldn't it be ironic if Trump's downfall came about due to women, after all the sleazy comments he has made about them?
I was actually wondering if they do a security clearance on the POTUS. I heard someone talking about the process and if you leave anything out of the application it can come back to haunt you because their biggest fear is someone being blackmailed. Did Trump have to do an application? Did he declare these affairs and subsequent payments?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 19, 2018 9:19:32 GMT -5
As far as I know, Trump still hasn't admitted to any affairs, even when his lawyer admitted he paid the porn star $130,000 out of his own pocket. So I would assume he said nothing on his security clearance application.
Trump's MO is that he never, ever admits to doing anything wrong, even when he's caught red handed with his arm deep into the cookie jar. And he has repeatedly defended other men who also refuse to admit their bad actions, (including Putin) by saying "well, he says he didn't do it, so we have to believe him."
No - no we do not have to believe them, or Trump, or any one else who is obviously lying their ass off.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 19, 2018 9:29:15 GMT -5
As far as I know, Trump still hasn't admitted to any affairs, even when his lawyer admitted he paid the porn star $130,000 out of his own pocket. So I would assume he said nothing on his security clearance application. ... The POTUS does not fill out a security clearance application.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 19, 2018 9:31:29 GMT -5
As far as I know, Trump still hasn't admitted to any affairs, even when his lawyer admitted he paid the porn star $130,000 out of his own pocket. So I would assume he said nothing on his security clearance application. ... The POTUS does not fill out a security clearance application. Really? We'll let any old bozo run the country without checking into his background?
Well, never mind, I guess I answered my own question.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 19, 2018 9:46:00 GMT -5
Trump is tweeting like he’s pissing his pants. I am pretty sure Pence's wife, "Mother", is capable of re-diapering trump.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 19, 2018 10:18:59 GMT -5
I'm sure Pres. Trump et al. are a-shakin' in their boots. But, if Paul can dream... I heard some talking heads this weekend discussing that possibility that it won't be the whole Mueller thing that brings Trump down, but his payouts to (at least two) women during the campaign to get them to sign agreements to not discuss their sexual relations with Trump.
Even if Trump's lawyer claims the payouts to the women came from his own pocket, that could be considered an undeclared campaign donation diverted to two women to buy their silence. Just as Clinton was brought down by lying about a relationship with an intern, Trump might end up indicted not for obstruction or campaign collusion, but for a peripheral charge - campaign finances.
Not saying that will happen, but wouldn't it be ironic if Trump's downfall came about due to women, after all the sleazy comments he has made about them?
The lawyer will also run into ethics violations/possible law license sanctions for making a payout from his own money on behalf of a client. The basic summary is, that if a lawyer does something like that, the agreement MUST be in writing and the client MUST be advised to seek independent legal counsel. I can't imagine an attorney willing to risk his license for Trump. And I'm also amazed at how small these payouts are to keep quiet about sex. They're dealing with a self proclaimed billionaire. At least get something in the seven figure range.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 19, 2018 10:38:33 GMT -5
As far as I know, Trump still hasn't admitted to any affairs, even when his lawyer admitted he paid the porn star $130,000 out of his own pocket. So I would assume he said nothing on his security clearance application. ... The POTUS does not fill out a security clearance application. That seems like a loophole. Maybe the parties should make "pass highest level of security clearance" a must before putting someone on the primary ballot?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 19, 2018 10:40:55 GMT -5
I heard some talking heads this weekend discussing that possibility that it won't be the whole Mueller thing that brings Trump down, but his payouts to (at least two) women during the campaign to get them to sign agreements to not discuss their sexual relations with Trump.
Even if Trump's lawyer claims the payouts to the women came from his own pocket, that could be considered an undeclared campaign donation diverted to two women to buy their silence. Just as Clinton was brought down by lying about a relationship with an intern, Trump might end up indicted not for obstruction or campaign collusion, but for a peripheral charge - campaign finances.
Not saying that will happen, but wouldn't it be ironic if Trump's downfall came about due to women, after all the sleazy comments he has made about them?
The lawyer will also run into ethics violations/possible law license sanctions for making a payout from his own money on behalf of a client. The basic summary is, that if a lawyer does something like that, the agreement MUST be in writing and the client MUST be advised to seek independent legal counsel. I can't imagine an attorney willing to risk his license for Trump. And I'm also amazed at how small these payouts are to keep quiet about sex. They're dealing with a self proclaimed billionaire. At least get something in the seven figure range. Not only that, but doesn't the fact that the lawyer talked about the settlement negate the confidentiality agreement?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 19, 2018 11:12:14 GMT -5
The lawyer will also run into ethics violations/possible law license sanctions for making a payout from his own money on behalf of a client. The basic summary is, that if a lawyer does something like that, the agreement MUST be in writing and the client MUST be advised to seek independent legal counsel. I can't imagine an attorney willing to risk his license for Trump. And I'm also amazed at how small these payouts are to keep quiet about sex. They're dealing with a self proclaimed billionaire. At least get something in the seven figure range. Not only that, but doesn't the fact that the lawyer talked about the settlement negate the confidentiality agreement? That's what the porn star thinks, at least, because she's indicated she's willing to sell the whole story of the affair now, when just a few weeks ago she was staying mum.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 19, 2018 11:16:16 GMT -5
Speaking of clearances, Kelly sent out a memo that said everyone in the administration who has been working since June 1st with a security clearance will have their temporary clearance revoked this Friday.
www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/us/politics/john-kelly-rob-porter-clearance.html
So either Kushner gets his clearance by Friday, or Trump steps in and says the policy doesn't apply to his SIL, or Kushner gets to sit on the sidelines until his clearance goes through.
Trump should be careful about granting Kushner special immunity. He's already on thin ice by having his sons, daughter and SIL act as his top aides. One of the many things that isn't usually done that Trump does anyway.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 19, 2018 11:25:58 GMT -5
President Pence will pardon him. true. but President Pelosi won't.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 19, 2018 11:33:27 GMT -5
I'm sure Pres. Trump et al. are a-shakin' in their boots. But, if Paul can dream... I heard some talking heads this weekend discussing that possibility that it won't be the whole Mueller thing that brings Trump down, but his payouts to (at least two) women during the campaign to get them to sign agreements to not discuss their sexual relations with Trump.
Even if Trump's lawyer claims the payouts to the women came from his own pocket, that could be considered an undeclared campaign donation diverted to two women to buy their silence. Just as Clinton was brought down by lying about a relationship with an intern, Trump might end up indicted not for obstruction or campaign collusion, but for a peripheral charge - campaign finances.
Not saying that will happen, but wouldn't it be ironic if Trump's downfall came about due to women, after all the sleazy comments he has made about them?
Doesn't the involvement of his lawyer reasonably preclude the possibility of the payouts being illegal? Unless we're accusing his lawyer of being a co-conspirator. These payouts, as I understand it, were part of the terms of NDAs. NDAs only have value within above-board contractual law. They're unenforceable if they're illegal. Why would Pres. Trump go through the trouble of having a lawyer draw up NDA forms if they weren't enforceable? Why would he involve a lawyer at all? It makes no sense. Furthermore, how does Pres. Trump paying prostitutes for their silence constitute a "campaign donation"? Unless he used campaign accounts, cooked books, etc., why would the two even be related? Is there a rule that any financial transactions undertaken by a candidate during a presidential campaign are summarily campaign-related? The legal system (especially the US legal system) is a hot mess, hence nothing would surprise me, but I'm going to chalk this up to wishful thinking for now. Pres. Trump hasn't gotten as far as he has by being careless with legal matters.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 19, 2018 11:59:17 GMT -5
Pres. Trump hasn't gotten as far as he has by being careless with legal matters. uh....yeah he has. it is like you don't know anything about him, Virgil.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 19, 2018 12:03:14 GMT -5
I heard some talking heads this weekend discussing that possibility that it won't be the whole Mueller thing that brings Trump down, but his payouts to (at least two) women during the campaign to get them to sign agreements to not discuss their sexual relations with Trump.
Even if Trump's lawyer claims the payouts to the women came from his own pocket, that could be considered an undeclared campaign donation diverted to two women to buy their silence. Just as Clinton was brought down by lying about a relationship with an intern, Trump might end up indicted not for obstruction or campaign collusion, but for a peripheral charge - campaign finances.
Not saying that will happen, but wouldn't it be ironic if Trump's downfall came about due to women, after all the sleazy comments he has made about them?
Doesn't the involvement of his lawyer reasonably preclude the possibility of the payouts being illegal? Unless we're accusing his lawyer of being a co-conspirator. These payouts, as I understand it, were part of the terms of NDAs. NDAs only have value within above-board contractual law. They're unenforceable if they're illegal. Why would Pres. Trump go through the trouble of having a lawyer draw up NDA forms if they weren't enforceable? Why would he involve a lawyer at all? It makes no sense. Furthermore, how does Pres. Trump paying prostitutes for their silence constitute a "campaign donation"? Unless he used campaign accounts, cooked books, etc., why would the two even be related? Is there a rule that any financial transactions undertaken by a candidate during a presidential campaign are summarily campaign-related? The legal system (especially the US legal system) is a hot mess, hence nothing would surprise me, but I'm going to chalk this up to wishful thinking for now. Pres. Trump hasn't gotten as far as he has by being careless with legal matters. Well, I am not a lawyer so I'm not really qualified to discuss what is legal or not, but from what the talking heads were saying, if Trump gave the porn star $130,000 during his campaign, on the condition that she not talk about their affair because that could have a negative impact on the election, that would be considered a 'campaign related expense' and should have been documented and reported to the election commission, which is wasn't.
By having his lawyer state that he paid the woman off, not Trump, it separates it from being a 'campaign donation' so Trump avoids getting in trouble for not declaring the payment. But the talking head was saying that even if the money did not come directly from Trump, if the women were paid to keep silent during the campaign, it was still a campaign donation, because it was intended to help Trump's campaign.
So it wasn't that the NDA was illegal - at least, I haven't heard a legal person saying it was - it's that the purpose of the NDA, whether Trump paid for it or his lawyer did, was to promote Trump's campaign, which makes it a campaign donation, which has to be declared, and it wasn't.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/tools-of-trump%e2%80%99s-fixer-payouts-intimidation-and-the-tabloids/ar-BBJjcrM
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 19, 2018 12:05:43 GMT -5
I heard some talking heads this weekend discussing that possibility that it won't be the whole Mueller thing that brings Trump down, but his payouts to (at least two) women during the campaign to get them to sign agreements to not discuss their sexual relations with Trump.
Even if Trump's lawyer claims the payouts to the women came from his own pocket, that could be considered an undeclared campaign donation diverted to two women to buy their silence. Just as Clinton was brought down by lying about a relationship with an intern, Trump might end up indicted not for obstruction or campaign collusion, but for a peripheral charge - campaign finances.
Not saying that will happen, but wouldn't it be ironic if Trump's downfall came about due to women, after all the sleazy comments he has made about them?
Doesn't the involvement of his lawyer reasonably preclude the possibility of the payouts being illegal? Unless we're accusing his lawyer of being a co-conspirator. These payouts, as I understand it, were part of the terms of NDAs. NDAs only have value within above-board contractual law. They're unenforceable if they're illegal. Why would Pres. Trump go through the trouble of having a lawyer draw up NDA forms if they weren't enforceable? Why would he involve a lawyer at all? It makes no sense.Furthermore, how does Pres. Trump paying prostitutes for their silence constitute a "campaign donation"? Unless he used campaign accounts, cooked books, etc., why would the two even be related? Is there a rule that any financial transactions undertaken by a candidate during a presidential campaign are summarily campaign-related? The legal system (especially the US legal system) is a hot mess, hence nothing would surprise me, but I'm going to chalk this up to wishful thinking for now. Pres. Trump hasn't gotten as far as he has by being careless with legal matters. Its a bullying tactic. He's got the money to pay his attorneys to keep fighting.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 12:12:30 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that many (probably most) very wealthy narcissistic types like Trump, have a troop of attornies to clean up their messes. This is why he hates the investigation - he has a whole lot of (naked?) skeletons in his closet.
We need it to be mandatory in this country for presidential candidates to be cleared physically, mentally, and criminally before they can be elected to office. Currently, they have no clearance process at all. Schiff has tried to get this passed, and the republicans won't vote for it. What? They don't want mentally and physically healthy leaders?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 19, 2018 12:17:48 GMT -5
President Pence will pardon him. true. but President Pelosi won't. I hate Trump and Pence scares the shit out of me, but I got a shiver down my spine when I read that. I wonder if I will ever like a President again.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 19, 2018 12:22:35 GMT -5
Why would Pres. Trump go through the trouble of having a lawyer draw up NDA forms if they weren't enforceable? Why would he involve a lawyer at all? It makes no sense.
Cause most people are scared shitless when it is announced a lawyer will be involved. Then most people do not have the money to hire their own lawyer to sit down and explain to them that an NDA is not enforceable in their case.
This is why that IRS scam is so effective. People don't want to take the chance of being wrong.
Then why would a lawyer draw one up at all, cause they are getting paid. I'm sure lawyers on Trump's bankroll make a pretty penny. It probably takes little of their time and effort to churn these out and they know the majority of people are not going to invest time/money in arguing the legality of it.
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 19, 2018 12:23:20 GMT -5
I heard some talking heads this weekend discussing that possibility that it won't be the whole Mueller thing that brings Trump down, but his payouts to (at least two) women during the campaign to get them to sign agreements to not discuss their sexual relations with Trump.
Even if Trump's lawyer claims the payouts to the women came from his own pocket, that could be considered an undeclared campaign donation diverted to two women to buy their silence. Just as Clinton was brought down by lying about a relationship with an intern, Trump might end up indicted not for obstruction or campaign collusion, but for a peripheral charge - campaign finances.
Not saying that will happen, but wouldn't it be ironic if Trump's downfall came about due to women, after all the sleazy comments he has made about them?
Doesn't the involvement of his lawyer reasonably preclude the possibility of the payouts being illegal? Unless we're accusing his lawyer of being a co-conspirator. This had me truly laughing out loud. So swamp and others....am I cynical or is Virgil naive? As if the mere presence of a paid toady precludes any nonsense? As if people haven't threatened completely bogus legal actions just to try to keep others in line and hope they don't figure it out?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 19, 2018 12:24:58 GMT -5
I'm voting for Virgil is naive. And you're cynical.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 19, 2018 12:47:31 GMT -5
It is no longer cynicism if all of the bad acts have been demonstrated....
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 19, 2018 13:49:36 GMT -5
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