AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 16, 2018 17:32:14 GMT -5
TheLastRefuge
@thelastrefuge2
13m13 minutes ago
I strongly recommend anyone interested to read the actual Robert Mueller indictment details. This is nothing more than manufacturing an "illusion of action" to justify an investigation.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 16, 2018 17:35:31 GMT -5
This is hardly over. Far more to come. Plenty of stuff to dig up. Plenty. Maybe even Don Jr.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Feb 16, 2018 17:38:02 GMT -5
CNN reported the indictment says the Russians and "other people currently being investigated" meddled in the election. They are reporting this isn't all the indictments and it sounds like some Trump connections are coming. All we can do is wait and see, but I would bet they are. Don Jr. and/or Kershner would be my bets. We can hope you are correct!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 16, 2018 17:53:06 GMT -5
secrecy. lying. imprudence. lack of honor. you know, the same stuff that would lead one to conspire to win an election through any means necessary. I guess you guys did have to live through the same psychoanalysis during Pres. Obama's tenure.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 16, 2018 18:09:14 GMT -5
The fat lady hasn't even left her home yet to leave for the opera house. Plenty of time before she sings.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 18:55:04 GMT -5
So, Paul, we see some indictments just came out PROVING Russian meddling in our election. Going to blame that on Obama and Clinton, or would you prefer to backpedal? Just saw a Fox headline saying indictments prove Obama lost sight of Russia...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 16, 2018 19:36:50 GMT -5
So, Paul, we see some indictments just came out PROVING Russian meddling in our election. Going to blame that on Obama and Clinton, or would you prefer to backpedal? Just saw a Fox headline saying indictments prove Obama lost sight of Russia... that's fine. Mueller will fix that.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Feb 16, 2018 19:47:29 GMT -5
Paul, must be one of the unwitting conspiracy types. Keep holding up for this loser paul, he is on nixons career path.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 17, 2018 9:29:10 GMT -5
secrecy. lying. imprudence. lack of honor. you know, the same stuff that would lead one to conspire to win an election through any means necessary. I guess you guys did have to live through the same psychoanalysis during Pres. Obama's tenure. Your suggesting that Obama acted as the Donald does thus the negative feelings against him by as many of those who disliked him and his administration... I grant u one thing...there are always for what ever reason, people who are upset with who ever is in power for what ever reason as stated but to try and compare the two people is cuckoo...One is a flawed individual that a professionally trained medical person could/would come up with a fist full of words to describe the workings of one and another who just because...some are not in favor of...No comparison between the two.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 17, 2018 9:36:58 GMT -5
Oh look, another mistress has popped up. And she explains Trump's method of covering his tracks with mistresses - get his buddy David Pecker (oh, the irony of his name) at AMI to give the mistress a contract for the exclusive rights to her personal story, then sit on it. The mistress can't legally tell her story anyplace else, and AMI will never run it. Trump did it so often they had a name for it - 'catch and kill.' www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/donald-trump-a-playboy-model-and-a-system-for-concealing-infidelity-national-enquirer-karen-mcdougal
Also - no paper trail. She paid for her own travel and he reimbursed her. Sounds like someone who had a lot of experience keeping his mistresses on the down low.
Again, this will cause nothing more than an eye roll and a sigh - except maybe with female voters, who, like me, might be getting tired of a president who only sees women in two ways - as sex objects or too ugly to be sex objects. What does it say about a person /male who seems to have a thing for prostitutes...and one who is the leader of the country and his mantra seems to be insults to any who offer any criticism of himself...like a kid on a school yard...He's not a kid on the school yard..he's the POTUS....[sheesh...enough guys with the support of him..does not deserve it]
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 17, 2018 17:21:56 GMT -5
I guess you guys did have to live through the same psychoanalysis during Pres. Obama's tenure. Your suggesting that Obama acted as the Donald does thus the negative feelings against him by as many of those who disliked him and his administration... I'm suggesting that we all sat through pages of analysis of Pres. Obama's history and behaviour, watching it being spun into a case for the man being a closet Marxist, a closet Muslim, a closet black supremacist, a closet homosexual, among others. It was fascinating at times, salient at times, but proved nothing. I'm laughing at how the tables have turned. Pres. Trump's supporters will find themselves reading through psychoanalysis of Pres. Trump's habitual adultery in a thread about FBI corruption and the Mueller investigation--fascinating at times, salient at times, but...
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 17, 2018 18:04:58 GMT -5
Paul, must be one of the unwitting conspiracy types. Keep holding up for this loser paul, he is on nixons career path. Nixon made correct decisions for the betterment of the country...It's said that he sent Kissinger to China , after a drill on Air Force one...supposedly the scenario was a attack on US by the Soviets and after being presented with different options of response...realized the least response would cost the lives of millions plus damage to areas attacked said there had to be a better way...so off to China...keep the Russians guessing...are we going to bed with the Chinese against Russia or what... The Donald would never think that deep...
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 17, 2018 18:33:28 GMT -5
Your suggesting that Obama acted as the Donald does thus the negative feelings against him by as many of those who disliked him and his administration... I'm suggesting that we all sat through pages of analysis of Pres. Obama's history and behaviour, watching it being spun into a case for the man being a closet Marxist, a closet Muslim, a closet black supremacist, a closet homosexual, among others. It was fascinating at times, salient at times, but proved nothing. I'm laughing at how the tables have turned. Pres. Trump's supporters will find themselves reading through psychoanalysis of Pres. Trump's habitual adultery in a thread about FBI corruption and the Mueller investigation--fascinating at times, salient at times, but... The difference being, of course, that Obama's opponents had to make up stuff about him. Trump's opponents merely repeat the man's own words and tweets or the corroborations of others involved.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 18, 2018 8:34:43 GMT -5
I'm suggesting that we all sat through pages of analysis of Pres. Obama's history and behaviour, watching it being spun into a case for the man being a closet Marxist, a closet Muslim, a closet black supremacist, a closet homosexual, among others. It was fascinating at times, salient at times, but proved nothing. I'm laughing at how the tables have turned. Pres. Trump's supporters will find themselves reading through psychoanalysis of Pres. Trump's habitual adultery in a thread about FBI corruption and the Mueller investigation--fascinating at times, salient at times, but... The difference being, of course, that Obama's opponents had to make up stuff about him. Trump's opponents merely repeat the man's own words and tweets or the corroborations of others involved. Pres. Obama abandoned his principles and reneged on virtually every major promise he made during his 2008 campaign--campaign finance reform, an end to wars and invasions, an end to abuses of executive power, an end to Bush-era abuses of state power, greater transparency in government, open debate and transparency in legislating healthcare reform, whistleblower protection, an end to divisive politics, reigning in Wall Street, defense of marriage, and others. Pres. Trump has no firm principles. While he's making good on most major promises he made during his campaign, many of these (including his tax reform, ban on Muslims, systematic dismantling of everything established by Pres. Obama, both good and bad, etc.) are bad policies. So you tell me who deserves the greater criticism: the idealist who sold out his principles and trashed your country, or the narcissist who has no principles and is trashing your country? While you're at it, tell me which of the following deserves more of our attention: Pres. Obama's dalliances with radicals and race baiters, or Pres. Trump's dalliances with mistresses and prostitutes? It seems to me we have ample fault to work with even without burrowing into our leaders' personal lives.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 18, 2018 8:54:56 GMT -5
The difference being, of course, that Obama's opponents had to make up stuff about him. Trump's opponents merely repeat the man's own words and tweets or the corroborations of others involved. Pres. Obama abandoned his principles and reneged on virtually every major promise he made during his 2008 campaign--campaign finance reform, an end to wars and invasions, an end to abuses of executive power, an end to Bush-era abuses of state power, greater transparency in government, open debate and transparency in legislating healthcare reform, whistleblower protection, an end to divisive politics, reigning in Wall Street, defense of marriage, and others. Pres. Trump has no firm principles. While he's making good on most major promises he made during his campaign, many of these (including his tax reform, ban on Muslims, systematic dismantling of everything established by Pres. Obama, both good and bad, etc.) are bad policies. So you tell me who deserves the greater criticism: the idealist who sold out his principles and trashed your country, or the narcissist who has no principles and is trashing your country? While you're at it, tell me which of the following deserves more of our attention: Pres. Obama's dalliances with radicals and race baiters, or Pres. Trump's dalliances with mistresses and prostitutes? It seems to me we have ample fault to work with even without burrowing into our leaders' personal lives. You remind me of another here who loves to paintb just part of the room...never finishing it...I see u make no mention of the leader of the opposition party said before the man even was sworn into the office...his one most important doing was to see that the man was a one term POTUS.. and his fellow minions followed suit...absolutely no cooperation, absolutely no idea of bipartisan governance...thus leaving the man little option but go it alone. That wrong decisions were made? Of course...when doesn't that happen and on another thread we could discuss them...what might have been differently... As far as campaign promises..I never felt they were carved in stone..never to be deviated from..In fact , as one assumes power in our Republic, I expect a loosening of those beliefs as the reality of how the country is made up...those problems that one really does not know how deep they run unless one sits in that chair in the oval office...or as the push back is shown from other sides become a reality...
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 18, 2018 9:36:45 GMT -5
As far as campaign promises..I never felt they were carved in stone..never to be deviated from..In fact , as one assumes power in our Republic, I expect a loosening of those beliefs as the reality of how the country is made up... Our views differ markedly then. I do consider major campaign promises to be carved in stone, never to be deviated from. A leader may fail to actualize many of his promises due to the limitations of his power, intractability of the opposition, etc., which I don't fault him for. In exceptional cases, circumstances may change enough during a leader's tenure that a commitment must be amended, but such wasn't the case for any of the broken promises above. If a politician says he'll do something, he'll do it. If he's not sure if he can, if there are variables involved, he declares these during his campaign. If he's willing to negotiate and compromise, he lays out the degree to which he'll do so during the campaign. If he's unsure whether a policy will be effective, whether it's feasible, he declares this during the campaign. Any unconditional statement of policy--"I will...", "I will not...", "We will...", "There must be...", "I pledge to...", etc.--not met by a leader's full and uncompromising effort to deliver as promised is a failure of leadership. The same is true of any policy where a leader compromises beyond the parameters laid out during the campaign. Also, of any campaign promise made without sufficient forethought as to whether it's wise and feasible. A leader meeting this standard isn't electable in today's world, and wouldn't last very long in democratic politics if he did, but it is nevertheless my standard. Pres. Obama sadly violated it about as much as any man can violate it during his tenure. Pres. Trump has thus far violated it by reneging on his promise to withdraw from Syria, reneging on his promise to wholly repeal the PPACA, and making boastful promises about growing the US economy he can't possibly keep.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 18, 2018 9:41:41 GMT -5
As far as campaign promises..I never felt they were carved in stone..never to be deviated from..In fact , as one assumes power in our Republic, I expect a loosening of those beliefs as the reality of how the country is made up... Our views differ markedly then. I do consider major campaign promises to be carved in stone, never to be deviated from. A leader may fail to actualize many of his promises due to the limitations of his power, intractability of the opposition, etc., which I don't fault him for. In exceptional cases, circumstances may change enough during a leader's tenure that a commitment must be amended, but such wasn't the case for any of the broken promises above. If a politician says he'll do something, he'll do it. If he's not sure if he can, if there are variables involved, he declares these during his campaign. If he's willing to negotiate and compromise, he lays out the degree to which he'll do so during the campaign. If he's unsure whether a policy will be effective, whether it's feasible, he declares this during the campaign. Any unconditional statement of policy--"I will...", "I will not...", "We will...", "There must be...", "I pledge to...", etc.--not met by a leader's full and uncompromising effort to deliver as promised is a failure of leadership. The same is true of any policy where a leader compromises beyond the parameters laid out during the campaign. Also, of any campaign promise made without sufficient forethought as to whether it's wise and feasible. A leader meeting this standard isn't electable in today's world, and wouldn't last very long in democratic politics if he did, but it is nevertheless my standard. Pres. Obama sadly violated it about as much as any man can violate it during his tenure. Pres. Trump has thus far violated it by reneging on his promise to withdraw from Syria, reneging on his promise to wholly repeal the PPACA, and making boastful promises about growing the US economy he can't possibly keep. "Our views differ markedly then."
Yup....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 9:59:44 GMT -5
Well, he’s off the twitter rails this morning...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 18, 2018 10:08:19 GMT -5
... While you're at it, tell me which of the following deserves more of our attention: Pres. Obama's dalliances with radicals and race baiters, or Pres. Trump's dalliances with mistresses and prostitutes? ... Current President "X" deserves more of our attention than former President "Y". (But as to your point of topics we should pay attention to, I agree some are more important.)
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 18, 2018 10:11:18 GMT -5
The difference being, of course, that Obama's opponents had to make up stuff about him. Trump's opponents merely repeat the man's own words and tweets or the corroborations of others involved. Pres. Obama abandoned his principles and reneged on virtually every major promise he made during his 2008 campaign--campaign finance reform, an end to wars and invasions, an end to abuses of executive power, an end to Bush-era abuses of state power, greater transparency in government, open debate and transparency in legislating healthcare reform, whistleblower protection, an end to divisive politics, reigning in Wall Street, defense of marriage, and others. ... Some of which is why I didn't vote for his reelection.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 10:15:40 GMT -5
I could care less who trump fucks. That he can and has been blackmailed to cover up his behavior is a problem.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 18, 2018 10:52:00 GMT -5
Pres. Obama abandoned his principles and reneged on virtually every major promise he made during his 2008 campaign--campaign finance reform, an end to wars and invasions, an end to abuses of executive power, an end to Bush-era abuses of state power, greater transparency in government, open debate and transparency in legislating healthcare reform, whistleblower protection, an end to divisive politics, reigning in Wall Street, defense of marriage, and others. ... Some of which is why I didn't vote for his reelection. It's your right...we are a democracy...have that right...For me...so glad he didn't need your vote....
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 18, 2018 12:38:53 GMT -5
I guess you guys did have to live through the same psychoanalysis during Pres. Obama's tenure. not really. Obama was actually the first president i felt i understood in my lifetime. i may not have agreed with everything he did, but i didn't think he was a sociopath or a "phony".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 18, 2018 12:40:40 GMT -5
Paul, must be one of the unwitting conspiracy types. Keep holding up for this loser paul, he is on nixons career path. Nixon made correct decisions for the betterment of the country...It's said that he sent Kissinger to China , after a drill on Air Force one...supposedly the scenario was a attack on US by the Soviets and after being presented with different options of response...realized the least response would cost the lives of millions plus damage to areas attacked said there had to be a better way...so off to China...keep the Russians guessing...are we going to bed with the Chinese against Russia or what... The Donald would never think that deep... it is not a matter of deep thinking. it is a matter of knowing your limitations. i am not sure that Trump feels he has any. not kidding about that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 18, 2018 12:44:58 GMT -5
I'm suggesting that we all sat through pages of analysis of Pres. Obama's history and behaviour, watching it being spun into a case for the man being a closet Marxist, a closet Muslim, a closet black supremacist, a closet homosexual, among others. It was fascinating at times, salient at times, but proved nothing. I'm laughing at how the tables have turned. Pres. Trump's supporters will find themselves reading through psychoanalysis of Pres. Trump's habitual adultery in a thread about FBI corruption and the Mueller investigation--fascinating at times, salient at times, but... they proved nothing because it was all #fakenews, whereas everything i criticized Trump for: secrecy. lying. imprudence. lack of honor. i can support. in fact, i can support it in JUST ONE EVENT, the Daniels affair. you are arguing straw men for a man who has earned no defense. your ROFL just makes you look bad.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 18, 2018 16:00:46 GMT -5
The difference being, of course, that Obama's opponents had to make up stuff about him. Trump's opponents merely repeat the man's own words and tweets or the corroborations of others involved. Pres. Obama abandoned his principles and reneged on virtually every major promise he made during his 2008 campaign--campaign finance reform, an end to wars and invasions, an end to abuses of executive power, an end to Bush-era abuses of state power, greater transparency in government, open debate and transparency in legislating healthcare reform, whistleblower protection, an end to divisive politics, reigning in Wall Street, defense of marriage, and others. Pres. Trump has no firm principles. While he's making good on most major promises he made during his campaign, many of these (including his tax reform, ban on Muslims, systematic dismantling of everything established by Pres. Obama, both good and bad, etc.) are bad policies. So you tell me who deserves the greater criticism: the idealist who sold out his principles and trashed your country, or the narcissist who has no principles and is trashing your country? While you're at it, tell me which of the following deserves more of our attention: Pres. Obama's dalliances with radicals and race baiters, or Pres. Trump's dalliances with mistresses and prostitutes? It seems to me we have ample fault to work with even without burrowing into our leaders' personal lives. Please forgive me for responding to the things you actually wrote in the post I quoted... You did equate the two sides, prompting my comment on the difference between the two.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 18, 2018 17:24:13 GMT -5
So, Paul, we see some indictments just came out PROVING Russian meddling in our election. Going to blame that on Obama and Clinton, or would you prefer to backpedal? Just saw a Fox headline saying indictments prove Obama lost sight of Russia... Like his mentor...doesn't believe in back pedaling....
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Feb 18, 2018 18:17:57 GMT -5
Yeah, always something negative about Obama. Wonder he lasted 4 years the way they treated him.
Nixon supposedly had the highest IQ of any president and wasted it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 18, 2018 20:16:06 GMT -5
You did equate the two sides, prompting my comment on the difference between the two. I wouldn't have made it if I thought you'd react defensively. My "equating" the two was more reminiscing. I don't understand how intelligent people can lament the backbiting, fault-finding, and disrespecting of a President for eight solid years, but then turn around and engage in the very same behaviours when his successor rises to power. Guilt by association, character assassinations, reading too much into remarks, armchair psychoanalysis, etc. caused more than a little strife and vexation. Time and again, I witnessed widespread agreement that this kind of methodological fault-finding was petty, divisive, unwise--and I agreed. How much difference a single year makes. I just had to laugh. Principles are principles, but enemies are enemies, I suppose. This criticism isn't aimed at you or anyone specifically. I don't keep track of exactly who decried the evil-seeking then and who's indulging now.
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steff
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Post by steff on Feb 18, 2018 21:26:46 GMT -5
Gates will (or already has depending on where you read) plead guilty this week & will testify against Manafort. Gates was also part of the transition team & apparently has had a lot to talk about with Mueller.
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